AltME groups: search

If you really want to do it from the text mode console, you have 
to start X first. And then when you start an X app, it will open 
on console 7, the graphical one where X runs, so you have to switch 
consoles

are you sure the task you want to do can't be done without resorting 
to root?

Louis; do yourself a favour.  Read up on chmod, chown and chgrp. 
 In particular chmod.  These aren't the easiest of topics at first 
(mainly due to the crap involved with the 1970's octal numbers and 
some poor choice of names).   But after the initial weirdness the 
concepts are really straight forward.  Read, Write, Execute across 
User (the owner), Group, Others (not in group) and All (world).


There is an overlay of weirdness with directories and Execute (create 
a file in the dir) and a special mode bit etc.  But again ... grunt 
through until your brain tells you that you get it.  It's important, 
imho.


Flailing around with sudo and su (and root powers in general) is 
not the safest of ways to run Linux.  Potentially lowers the security 
to the level of your average Windows box ... nearly none.  :)    
 It can seem like a pain sometimes, but it isn't, it's part and parcel 
of a secure os.  BG has tainted the world to think it is inconvenient. 
Much like a lock maker giving everyone the same key.  A stupid "convenience" 
that wouldn't fly when it came to your car or house or bank, but 
PC users have grown up with and expect for reasons I have never understood. 
 (This last part is simple ranting - sorry about that)

btiffin, thanks. I like Linux. I did a lot of experimenting when 
I first made the switch, and that helped speed up the learning process. 
There is so much to learn that I doubt that any one person could 
ever know it all, but I've already learned enough to be able to do 
more than I was able to do with windows after many years of use. 
My rant: I hate the Windows registry file!

Yep, I just spent at least 4 weeks learning how to compile and install 
a video driver in Kubuntu. I had to do a distro upgrade because the 
graphics card I bought was too new for the OS. I became a little 
more proficient in the console over the last four weeks. :)

I've been using that script for 6 years without a problem, so I suspect 
that this present problem has something to do with Linux.

yes, color or something like that is what i was thinking. maybe some 
kind of "mode". i need to look at some ansi esc sequence docs, i'll 
eventually do that if noone beats me to it.

Which leads me to the next question: How do you handle Rebol scripts 
that are used on Windows and Linux regarding returns? Do you just 
use the LF or CRLF or CR (OSX)?

The launch environments are different in that the shebang path is 
used by the shell to know what to do with the script. You can also 
run a REBOL script in the linux terminal with: rebol -qs script.r 
and it will be the same script as under Windows. It might look a 
little ugly, but you could wrap your windows REBOL scripts in a shebang 
script.

Graham, why do you say JeOS finds your NICs? ifconfig not showing 
them would seem to indicate it doesn't

Wait a minute, before the upgrade, I did a *hardware* upgrade, replacing 
the motherboard and 32-bit cpu for a 64-bit one. This is when 'eth0' 
changed to 'eth1' and I had to muck about to fix it.  <--- This is 
probably related to the network problems.
(So much happened since then, I keep forgetting about this.)
My solution is probably to do a fresh 64-bit install.

Yeah, Linux still has work to do on wireless networking.

Guys, thanks a lot. As always there is more than one way to do it. 
:-)

Petr, if you are writing your own video player, maybe you can do 
something, but don't expect it to be easy (well, maybe you can just 
stick to one specific version of the driver). Why do you want to 
do this? Isn't software playback good enough? 720p H264 works fine 
on this machine which is an old Athlon XP 2600+. Do you really need 
1080p? If so, isn't a cheap laptop MB able to give you that in software 
already?

Probably the most you could do is try to cross-compile ORCA for it

But how to handle source-only packages? I have an other system with 
everything on place. But how to do the install on the production 
server?

Any idea how to best do it?

To achieve the above you need to do 2 things:

1) Log files that were modified or added during the compile/installation 
(or otherwise find them after the installation).
2) Copy to the production server.

To do 1, it may help to use this console command after an install.

 alias recent='find . -type f -printf '\''%TY-%Tm-%Td/%TT %p\n'\'' 
 | sort'

We can't be the only ones wondering how to do this, so I will check 
google for a tool to monitor installs....

Well, in Rebol/View 2.7.6.4.2, I can paste the multiply sign (copied 
from ascii-math.r) straight into the console and it shows correctly. 
In a field, however, it shows incorrectly, eg. if I try to paste 
it in the field:
	view layout [f: field]
I get two characters,  'Ã' and a dotted box, displayed instead.

The binary information is correct, it's just not rendered correctly, 
for if back in the console I do:
	probe f/text
then I get the multiply symbol displayed correctly again.

So it looks like View face/text rendering is expecting 8-bit ascii 
of some encoding.
Probably ISO/IEC_8859-1

So on the surface it looks easy to do, actually.

I don't think so. The window managers sit on top of the X Windows 
system and get it to do the basics - opening windows etc.

Firefox has kiosk mode where window frames and titles disappear...may 
work differnetly than normal windows without titlebars..maybe simpler 
to do

Anton - I know. My point is, that if SDL can do it, cross platform, 
looking into their source will reveal actually HOW they do it, no? 
They have to call some Linux underlying code, to achieve no-border 
window. ...

Not Rebol callbacks. A DLL built using C is injected using LD_PRELOAD 
when running any executable. The executable I'm interested in is 
Rebol, of course. This injected code intercepts calls to XCreateSimpleWindow 
(which creates the X Windows window), and adds some properties to 
it, including one which stores the process id of the application 
opening the window. This means that each X window can be ensured 
to have the process id of the application that opened it (which is 
otherwise not mandated by X). So I could do that to any program and 
it would ensure that there is a way to get the process id. I'm doing 
it to Rebol, and this means it is now possible for another DLL function 
(called from Rebol) to scan all the windows opened on the X display 
and see which one has the Rebol process id. All you need is the process 
id, and this is easy to do with a very small DLL function call.

I have a program I would like to run on a netbook (Small screen 800x480) 
so I do not want to lose any realestate to title bar...
(I know it can come with XP but for another $50)

Also, I like the idea of the application "taking over" the netbook 
as if this device and the App are one.

It's for use by non-techies so as little interaction with linux as 
possible is desired...

Seems likely other setups also wouldn't crash, but I wouldn't put 
it past Gnome to do something strange

So I just installed glorious UBUNTU Server edition. Installation 
went OK, but after 15 minutes of usege, I have big WTF? Are those 
ppl crazy? This is total piece of crap. You can't have X-Windows 
easily running there. There is NO visual administrative tool intalled 
by default. No webmin, but Ebox. At least Docs state how to install/run 
Ebox. It does NOT work, it is missing some packages. I am also left 
with my user name, and the SUDO. But - can you do everything by SUDO? 
How do I find out my real root password? I am really not an experienced 
Linux user, but I could manage that stuff with old Fedora in 2004. 
Why Ubuntu gets so much attention?

well, the server "works" somehow, as I can reach its web. But I am 
not hardcore linux guru to go with pure console. So I wanted to add 
webmin, but noticed there is Ebox equivalent, but was not able to 
install it. The package mechanism is strange too - too much packages. 
I liked "yum update" with Fedora - it simply installed needed patches. 
Here I tried aptitude but how do I know from so many packages, what 
I need to install. I need very simple mechanism to just apply security 
patches, nothing more, like with Windows :-)

what do i need to install
 - that is automatic. sudo apt-get install package-name

2.4 / 2.6 - I don't know if anything special is needed to do that. 
you can very likely compile both kernels in order to make them compatible 
with each other, and it's also possible to handle this in the userland.

even when going from 2.4 to 2.6? I guess that if they do that, they 
must have tested it. i'm not aware of debian being able to keep multiple 
versions of programs though, so if it's installing a new version 
of a program, most likely it will remove the old one. (it can keep 
multiple versions of the same library, but not always)

Doc: I have /lib/ and /lib64/  -- do you think that lib are 32b libs? 
or do I have to install them ... the client told me now he thinks 
admin installed the 32b libs at his vps

rebol now works, but I have a problem with cheyenne , something similar 
to what Doc said before
--------------

[root-:-www]:/usr/share/cheyenne# ./cheyenne

** Script Error: Library error: /lib/libc.so.6: wrong ELF class: 
ELFCLASS64
** Where: do-cache
** Near: all [
    any [
        exists? libc: %/lib/libc.so.6
        exists? libc: %/lib/libc.so.5
    ]
    libc: load/libra...
[root-:-www]:/usr/share/cheyenne# ldd ./cheyenne
        libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xb7ef7000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xb7ef3000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xb7da1000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb7f24000)
[root-:-www]:/usr/share/cheyenne#

So I just need to move to the latest cheyenne ... now I have the 
reason to do so :)

Any idea how to enable utf8 support? Do I need to "convert" the existing 
filesystem?

no clue  !!  I havn't even started putting content yet :-) 


working on new ssh-admin upload/download/shortcut features  and  
then  remark_mod.


until remark_mod is working, no content will be visible. forcing 
myself to implement what I've been wanting to do for years  ;-)

What are we talking about here, Maxim? What will this allow you to 
do exactly?

Any ideas how to do this? I am trying to compile it now on my other 
VPS which is 32bit and copy file to the 64bit vps but I have no idea 
if this will work

What distro works best with sdk-2706042.tar.gz "out of the box" (with 
regards to rebview and fonts)? I just need something I can quickly 
install under VirtualBox and do some basic cross-platform REBOL GUI 
development/testing ... without having to hack it to make it work.

OK, so I've downloaded Ubuntu 9.04 (64bit) and got it running under 
VirtualBox, then I download and untar/zip the REBOL SDK and open 
a console session. cd to the REBOL dir and do a chmod +x and type 
./rebview ... which comes back with a "file or dir not found message" 
... anything else I need to do to get REBOL working? Oh, and what 
font looked best with RebGUI in your opinion?

In any case, it's easier to do a "sudo apt-get install ia32-libs" 
than do a new installation, no? :)

OK, I've got it running under a clean install of Ubuntu 32bit. Now, 
how do I determine what scaleable fonts REBOL can actually use? (%/usr/share/fonts/truetype/freefont/ 
doesn't seem to have all that many ... and they look pretty ordinary 
atsize: 72).

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is to redefine NOW based on a NIST 
offset.

Doc, or anyone, do you know how to write a proxy for system/ports/input 
?

Hmm.. sounds a bit too complicated for now - might have to wait for 
another day...

but, how do you think I would replace system/ports/input ? By just 
:

	system/ports/input: my-port
?

console-port: open/binary/no-wait console:/
console-port/awake: func [port /local ch][
	if ch: pick port 1 [
		;print ["Console awake trapped key:" to-char ch "(" ch ")"]
		either ch = #"^V" [	; Ctrl+V

   call "xclip -o -selection clipboard" ; Three different types of clipboards: 
   "primary", "secondary" or "clipboard".
		][
			insert system/ports/output to-char ch
		]
	]
	return false ; Does not cause return from WAIT (DO-EVENTS).
	;true ; Does cause return from WAIT (DO-EVENTS).
]

insert system/ports/wait-list console-port
if error? set/any 'err try [
	do-events
][
	print mold disarm err
]
close console-port
remove find system/ports/wait-list console-port

I don't really know what I'm doing with ports. I need more information. 
All I can get it to do is shutdown rebol on keypress.

(It's unclear to me the relationship between a port and its subport. 
I know the port manages the opening/closing of its subport, but how 
can the port in lines mode transfer individual chars from its buffer 
into the subport ? Or do they both receive from the same input simultaneously 
automatically?)

do u have direct access to the server?

I would love to see data mining tools that can detect such attempts 
at access in the access log without having to read through the log. 
Do they exist?

I am moving few domains of my friend to my server. However - he wants 
to access email, which means, I need to provide him with authenticated 
smtp. I have my old sendmail in simple mode - simply relying allowed 
from local 10* network, but not from the outside.


Has anyone succesfull configured sendmail, so that it would use authentication 
by username, password? My friend sent me following link, but I don't 
understand, what should I do :-) Hopefully I don't need to recompile 
sendmail :-)

http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/auth.html

Thinking about providing my brother with some webmail option on my 
Linux server. In the past, I used simple Squirrel mail. Then I know 
some ppl do use Horde. Now my friend suggested me a Zimbra. Isn't 
Zimbra a little bit too much for just an occassional web option to 
pop3 account?

Gabriele - because Linux sucks. Because if it would be easy, Janko 
would not post his questions here. I user REBOL, because it provides 
me with simplicity to what I need to do. I use Mikrotik, because 
it is absolutly best low-cost FW/shaper/whatever, used by 90% small 
WISP?

so, what the hell has that to do with Janko's problem (a firewall 
for his server)?

It might have nothing to do with Janko's problem. But - I saw you 
suggesting him ShoreWall, and in that regard I did mention Mikrotik, 
because I have experience with it, and simply put - nearly all WISP 
are using it, and that means something. Some ppl do replace Cisco's 
with it. The system is no-brainer - just insert CF with MT, boot, 
and there you go. If some node dies, you can replace it in 10 minutes, 
no virtualisation or advanced technique used, just its clever design. 
Besides that - MT is still Linux underneath ...

the issue is not whether it's free or not. the issue is that they 
are REMOVING features for no reason at all. Why not just add their 
own windows UI (that of course it's only for windows! they could 
not do like anyone else and make a web interface that works everywhere...) 
on top of a custom linux distribution that ALSO gives you the ability 
to do whatever you want with it IF you know how?

It has NOTHING to do with MT and your claims are simply false. If 
you are so brave, then go, and replace your bad MT with another Debian 
Box. I wonder, if it would make you more happy. MT is not bug-free, 
I never claimed anything like that. My MT suggestion was relatad 
exactly to the SIMPLICITY factor. You call it complex? Man - it is 
like you never used REBOL, right? MT brings simplicity to the wifi 
providing, that some other solutions are not even funny to suggest.


MT Linux abstraction is like a VID dialect upon Linux - yes, it can't 
do everything. But I can't come-up with anything it does not do for 
me for 99% of my usage cases. Yes, I noticed your OpenVPN problem, 
not supporting UDP, and yes, it sucks, but it does not mean that 
MT does not serve its purpose.

Also, PLEASE, I beg you, do *read* what I write. I never said my 
problems are due to mikotik. I said my problems are due to my ISP 
not knowing what they are doing. You said that mikrotik allows "normal" 
people to set up a WISP. Right, they do, and the result is that they 
waste MY time *because* they know nothing about this job. This was 
*your* claim, and it seems to be consistent with what I am seeing.

The criticism I made to RouterOS was very targeted and very simple, 
and you of course completely ignored it. I said two things: 1) there 
is absolutely no reason they had to add the stupid shell they have 
when you connect via SSH 2) there is no reason why what they do could 
not have been implemented on top of debian, or any other distribution, 
thus allowing people who know what they are doing to provide extra 
services that are beyond what's in their default configuration. That 
is just a stupid choice. So, most people don't care or need, and 
for them MT may be a good choice. That does not make them a good 
alternative to a linux box, neither a good alternative to Janko's 
problem above, and from what you say they may be even making things 
worse.

Thanks for trying to help :) With font problem, do you mean something 
like a missing font? I got these installed: ttf-ms-fonts, ttf-dejavu, 
ttf-bitstream-vera, xorg-fonts-100dpi, xorg-fonts-75dpi, and xorg-fonts-misc. 
Any idea what kind of font would be missing for the Word Browser?

Yeah I started looking at the code. It's a bit hard to debug for 
me though. The error doesn't give any line number, it just says "near 
show main". I searched for "show main" and found three occurances 
in the source. I'm completely new to REBOL so going through everything 
in the code would take me quite some time without being able to narrow 
it down first because everything looks alien to me and I have to 
look it up to see if something in the script looks wrong. Is there 
some good tutorial available on debugging REBOL code? Or is there 
some trick to find out the last line that was executed? I do have 
access to the terminal at that point, the view is frozen but the 
terminal still accepts commands.

Is the situation really so bad? Well then - there is no other chance 
than to do it on per distro basis then, and isolate what is common 
for more platforms, and then do special configs ...

I never had any trouble with Java + Swing working everywhere, but 
I only recently started using Java for real (about a year ago I think) 
so maybe it's just gotten a lot better now and was awful in the past 
^^ But I guess it also depends a lot on what you are trying to do. 
Programming shouldn't be generalized. There are so many vastly different 
categories of programming (database, web, server, games, system, 
scripting, image/video processing, automation, A.I., embedded, etc.) 
that your mileage may vary depending on your area of interest. And 
don't get me wrong, I don't want to bash REBOL in any way. Apart 
from being completely new to the language which means that I can't 
really say if it's bad or good yet, I wouldn't be here if I didn't 
think it was useful and had potential :) Thankfully I already had 
some basic experience with Scheme, Clojure (a lisp) and Haskell so 
that REBOL's syntax didn't come as a shock for me :)

I guess a demonstration of its stretch is rebcode, which I had no 
idea was possible. It won't be in R3, but the fact that it's even 
possible to do in a scripting language and was implemented in as 
short time as it was is a great demonstration of how generic REBOL 
is.

Budzinski: REBOL's shortcomings wrt to "multiplatformness" are mainly 
due to Carl not having the time/resources to really keep all platforms 
up to date. Design wise, I think that we don't have the problems 
Java had/has; they do, though, have enough manpower to fix all of 
them, no matter how awful things end up being. ;)

I've read the explanation multiple times, but BrianH knows it better 
than me. It has something to do with how functions are implemented 
in R3, which would make rebcode work slower in R3. Therefore it's 
better to spend time perfecting extensions, so you can write time 
critical code in C and use that instead. Rebcode is not for beginners 
anyway (but it did bring up that oldschool feeling for a while :-)).

I would like to switch to debian but don't know how I can do this 
on a running system...

Actually i thought it was a clone of the iPhone, but it turned out 
to be a thin shell above Ubuntu with a less usable browser and Gnome 
windows constantly popping up in a jarring way above the UI. I hate 
these papermaché solutions that only superficially tries to do something 
for usability.

pekr... one problem today is that people have come to an assumption 
that software programs itself.    I don't know where that is coming 
from, but in ALL real projects... 


at some point, you actually do have to raise your sleeves and put 
a little effort into it.

If 10 ppl can spend 50, it might be enough for someone to do fix 
here or there ...

Can't do nothing as everything stops on trying to stop the service 
using the script which does not exists

you need to chroot and install more packages, I guess. you need to 
do an actual installation, and not just a bootstrap.

I have the #!/usr/local/bin/rebol line and such in there. The problem 
is that I'm not sure how to make the script then go into the background 
again like a daemon would do. It stays at the foreground when I call 
it from something like init.d.

Okay, that may do what I need it to. REBOL does some interesting 
things which I haven't quite figured out when I do something like 
CTRL + Z, bg, etc.

Oh boy, didn't mean to do that. Looks like AltME in VMWare on CentOS 
had some initial weirdness as well. Sorry about that!

kib2, let REBOL decide what is what, by asking the datatype:

>> series? [a b c]
== true
>> series? "abc"
== true


You can do that, because REBOL has so many different datatypes, allowing 
you to be precise in your expression.

Geomol, the reason you do that, is of course to avoid garbage collection 
of said "locals"?

Henrik, no, not really because of garbage collection, because the 
garbage collector doesn't collect words defined 'globally', right? 
I do it, because it's good programming practise to not have many 
globals. :-)

kib2, since you can bind contexts everywhere, even inside other contexts, 
they are not really secure and so you can't make things really private 
to a context. Modules will do that, I believe.

Janko, I've been thinking about this problem too, and I'm not sure, 
what's best. Is it good enough, what we can do with functions today? 
Like:

>> old-add: :add

>> add: func [a b] [either string! = type? a [join a b] [old-add 
a b]]
>> add 4 5
== 9
>> add "Hi " "John"
== "Hi John"

Now ADD can also be used to join strings.

Janko, yes, that would be cool to do.

Geomol: something like you and I described would probably be possible 
to do in library , probably not that effective but it should surely 
be possible

Steeve, yes, you can do that, but then if other people want to use 
your code, they must use the accessors you have written, which effectively 
expands the language.

kib, :-D
Do you expect me to remember, how postscript works. ;-)
I have to think a bit now ...

Better to remember where do look something up, than to remember all 
that is in the book.

if i had to do, i will use the draw engine with logical bitmap operators 
to find the points

nice, thanks. Now, I'm looking for something like hashtables (key-value). 
Is there something special, or do I need to use blocks ?

A simple timing function to test performance:

time: func [:f /local t][
    t: now/time/precise
    do f
    now/time/precise - t
]

Yes, it takes some more work to do it in R2.

I also give it a try. Not really a browser, just an HTML renderer 
with view/draw.

But rendering HTML is a very complex thing to do, especially the 
layout, tables...
So it is only able to render texte styles.

kib, you write:

title: [ 1 6 "=" copy title to newline ]


In that, you use the word title for two things, so you destroy your 
intention. Change one of them to another word (remember to do it 
again further down your code).

thanks Anton... this is perfect for what I want to do..... :)

Another way to make tunnel effects.
do http://anton.wildit.net.au/rebol/demo/rebol-stargate1.0.2.r

BrianH: could that work as a plug-in for e.g.? Or - do you think 
it is possible to have even several VMs that way? Simply a compiler? 
Maybe we could even find some small C compiler to be included with 
REBOL? (if that would make sense)

Thanks. I found original site. Well, 100KB to have cross-platform 
compiler? Nice. It will not prevent devs to write cross-platform 
code, but those who would like to do so, could do so, and that is 
important ... Licence - LGPL, so it might work OK as an extension 
...

in R3, replace the code (at tail) by: 
screen: system/view/screen-gob
unless system/view/event-port [
	system/view/event-port: open [scheme: 'event]
]

pixel_size: 1x1
grid_size: 160x100 
img: make image! probe gob-size: (grid_size * pixel_size)

append screen ekran: make gob! [offset: 50x50 size: gob-size draw: 
[image img]]

do [
	boja: pick paleta 15
	change/dup skip img 0x0 boja grid_size * pixel_size
	for i 0 127 1 [
			for yy -50 49 1 [
				for xx -50 49 1 [

     rr: square-root (((xx + 0.5) * (xx + 0.5)) + ((yy + 0.5) * (yy + 
     0.5)))
					if ((rr > 14) and (rr < 50)) [
						zz: (900 / rr)
						pozicija: (pixel_size * (grid_size / 2 + (as-pair xx yy)))
						dubina: :zz - 18 / 46
						red: to-integer dubina * 63 + 1
						red: red + i
						red: to integer! red // 63 / 2 + 1
						either xx = 0
							[ugao: arctangent 999999999999]
							[ugao: arctangent (yy / xx)]
						either xx >= 0
							[ugao: ugao + 360 // 360]
							[ugao: ugao + 180]
						ugao: to-integer ugao / 360 * 63
						ugao: ugao // 32
						ugao: ugao + 1
						p: level/:red/:ugao
						boja: pick paleta p
						change/dup skip img pozicija boja pixel_size
					]
				]
			]
			show ekran
	]
]

see that, i do a scaling in R3:

screen: system/view/screen-gob
unless system/view/event-port [
	system/view/event-port: open [scheme: 'event]
]

pixel_size: 1x1
grid_size: 160x100 
img: make image! probe gob-size: (grid_size * pixel_size)

append screen ekran: make gob! compose [offset: 50x50 size: (gob-size 
* 4x4) draw: [scale 4 4 image img]]

do [
	boja: pick paleta 15
	change img boja grid_size
	for i 0 127 1 [
			for yy -50 49 1 [
				for xx -50 49 1 [

     rr: square-root ((xx + 0.5) * (xx + 0.5)) + ((yy + 0.5) * (yy + 0.5))
					if ((rr > 14) and (rr < 50)) [
						zz: 900 / rr
						pozicija: grid_size / 2 + as-pair xx yy
						dubina: zz - 18 / 46
						red: i + to-integer dubina * 63 + 1
						red: to integer! red // 63 / 2 + 1
						either xx = 0
							[ugao: arctangent 999999999999]
							[ugao: arctangent (yy / xx)]
						either xx >= 0
							[ugao: ugao + 360 // 360]
							[ugao: ugao + 180]
						ugao: to-integer ugao / 360 * 63
						ugao: ugao // 32
						ugao: ugao + 1
						p: level/:red/:ugao
						boja: pick paleta p
						change skip img pozicija boja 
					]
				]
			]
			show ekran
	]
]

The layout produces a face hierarchy like this:

	window face
		IMAGE face
		BUTTON face


So that's two faces needing buffers refreshed whenever you do SHOW 
window.
It's faster to have just one face (the window face).

	window face