AltME groups: search

I'm interested in making a Red dictionary that will allow people 
to program in Frisian :-)

And that was maybe 5 years ago, so I'm sure Google Translate is better 
than it was. A context free dictionary conversion from one word to 
another in a different language would probably not give the desired 
result.

0th is not that unnatural. I looked into an English dictionary yesterday, 
and actually found it defined as "the item before the first".

If you think about what you'd have to do to secure a server from 
memory overload, it would be reasonable to limit acceptable words 
to a certain dictionary, but it wouldn't be reasonable to limit issue! 
to a small range

I just finished the full Rebol disctionary on: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Dictionary
there you can find also the source of the functions. 

It's a public wiki, you can add examples, correct bugs, add topics: 
you are welcome!

MaxV: Regarding "all commands and refinements" have a look at the 
REBOL dictionary (for R2):
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

I think I should chime in here because I am one of those people who 
are not naturally inclined toward the programming arts. I see that 
many of you realize that the docs have to reach a vast audience from 
novice to expert. That will involve using different methods of presentaton 
and detail. How would you envision the database to look like. If 
we could create something pretty complete then I think all the desired 
above could be accomplished. For what it's worth I use the following:

The rebol dictionary - to look up words and usage I can't remember, 
try to decipher some functionality I need, hopefully find examples.

The View docs - to find out how things works and to remember how 
certain words work

Everything I can find on Parse - This is one subject that is all 
over the place.

Nick's tutorial and Reboltutorial - To learn about topical items 
that one can do in rebol such as sound and animation.

Altme - Asking all of you, especially Henrik, if I can do something 
and how or when something doesn't work.
Rebol.org - To find scripts that do things I need to do

Google - OK, this is generic and possibly obvious but when I am trying 
to figure something out, it's "Rebol ..."

The above items are my  most used resources and not exclusive. Note, 
for me the R3 docs were harder to navigate, especially a few years 
ago when I was looking at the GUI stuff. To me at least they seemed 
all over the place.


So, if one were to analyze that usage, it may help to develop something 
that can accomplish those different needs.

Gregg: the Red dictionary could be displayed in different ways, the 
treeview (unfolded like for clojuredocs or navigatable like in the 
Sensha demo) is one option, another is displaying it like REBOL's 
one: 

http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html


Anyway, the dictionary is a not the "reference documentation" (think 
REBOL/Core manual) which should be the first focus.

The online REBOL dictionary and the Word Browser are both effective 
formats for cross referencing.  Something like Carl's REBOL manual 
is essential to get things started.

I need to read the Rebol dictionary more often ;)

Re. meta -- Peter, that follows the one dictionary definition* that 
seems to fit -- "used with the name of a discipline to designate 
a new but related discipline designed to deal critically with the 
original one" -- so metadata is new data used to describe (or deal 
critically with) data, right?
* http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?meta-

Try the unset function  - http://rebol.com/docs/words/wunset.html


Generally, I find the core user guide at http://rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html
, 

  the function dictionary at http://rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html
  ,

 and the mailiing list archive at http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/ml-index.r

very useful in finding the answers to such questions.

Serious: would  like if  i could type a german word and have it looked 
up  in a dictionary. similar to a spell-checker.

for dictionary sorting it is sufficent that first "1000"  is less 
than first "99"

I looked up = in the Rebol Dictionary and, whilst it is not explicit, 
it implies different value types can be equal.

From the dictionary:


== - Returns TRUE if the values are equal and of the same datatype.

That should be in the "Idiom Dictionary", Carl was talking about: 
http://www.rebol.net/article/0113.html
(When REBOL/Services or LNS is out.)

See Gregg, another secret solved. I didn't see that in the dictionary.

Also, WRT language docs, there is the online dictionary and the Word 
Browser in Viewtop.

how does the path native work ? I couldn't find it in the rebol dictionary

a dictionary , for example..   cat ["def of cat" ] dog ["def of dog"]
run out of words real quick

What is THE best way to store a large hash table in memory  like 
a dictionary, .. and access the data?

RT seem happy the word function in both cases:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html
Perhaps we have to distniguish two types: native and mezzanine.

Here's what Im trying to do.. 

I have a dictionary...   dict: ["one" "two" "three" ... ]    with 
 a couple of million values

I want to build an index block .. dex: [ 2 3 2 1]  that represents 
the index? of each word in my dictionary

a value in the dictionary could be a page of rebol code (as a string) 
 .. and it could be represented with a single bit  (or in this case.. 
3 bytes)

the values never change.. they may be deleted... and their index 
re-valued.. or the dictionary may be appended..

so then my code becomes a block of 3 byte 'symbols' that I use to 
'pick' the actual values out of the dictionary with.

When the dictionary grows more than the current index limit (3 bytes 
-> 4 bytes), then the entire index block would need to be reprocessed 
to add the extra byte to each index value.

The dictionary will have 2 million strings... the index would be 
much smaller

yeah... I think the conclusion is ... don't worry about the number 
of bytes (and thus mem) when using plain integers with my index block, 
as it's much smaller than the dictionary anyways.. and unless Im 
shown otherwise, the crawling of it (find/ foreach, append) should 
be about as fast as any other method, right?

Even though each integer uses 16 bytes, there's some compaction by 
using the smallest integers with the most commonly used dictionary 
strings

I'll add these functions to the dictionary.. 

dict: [{integer-to-3-byte-binary: func [integer [integer!]][
	struct/int: integer
	copy/part third struct 3
]}]


now whenever i want to use that function.. i can represent it with 
a single integer.. ie:  do pick dict 1

Now as for compressing the dictionary.. it seems that smaller strings 
grow with compression?

I'm trying to get a list of all the arguments to get-modes. But, 
right now, the online dictionary is broken for that function:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/words/wget-modes.html
Can anyone help?
(Meanwhile, I'll rambo the problem)

REBOL has so many cool functions already build in. Look here for 
them sorted by area of use:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

because once i use the full 300,000+ word dictionary its gonna need 
to be fast :)

then it wouldn't help to divide the dictionary in sections by first 
letter

The entry in the Rebol dictionary for the = finciton  explains that 
it is case insensitive. == should be used for case sensitive equality 
checks.

The rebolfrance rebol dictionary is a good example of community documentation

Did anyone try to patch the behaviour of area? Especially I'd like 
to have:
- autoindent

- doubleclick on words in the area to do something interesting - 
e.g. look up in dictionary, use like a wiki word, ...
- maybe add additional shortcut keys.


I've tried to patch ctx-text/edit-text, but only was able to get 
no change at all, or crashes. Seems to be a bind problem:
ctx-text/edit-text: func[][] ;no change

ctx-text/edit-text: func[] bind [] in ctx-text 'edit-text ; unknown 
word ...

But I've also had issues with Swype whenever I tried to use a word 
not in its dictionary.  Using SwiftKey for now, but 8pen is something 
I'm considering trying.

I think one solution is to add a uniform domain based dictionary 
(one domain for styles, one for VID, one for other dialects), that 
help understands, but it can unfortunately not make dialects themselves 
self documenting. Possibly there would be automated dictionary builders, 
but these take a lot of time to run during startup, so maybe they 
should be some sort of callbacks from help to get just-in-time help 
on a domain.

Then you could use:

>> help/on styles

to get a dictionary on the styles, based on a dictionary builder.

The structure of an object is static (which fields in which order), 
but the values assigned to those fields are as dynamic as you want. 
Also, if you want to add or delete fields it is quite easy to create 
a new object with your changes at runtime. If you are just using 
an object as what other languages call a dictionary or hash map, 
you might as well use a block or hash type for your data.

both English Rebol books call print and prin 'functions'

The Rebol docs dictionary lumps all the words together as 'functions'

The challenge I have in introducing Rebol in a tutorial is to explain 
why the second expression fails:
>> c: open %temp.txt
>> d: close %temp.txt
; when explaining that the last line seen in
>> source send

; is not an indication that the function named send returns a value. 
 In many languages procedures can be called functions. Is Rebol one 
of them?

; not all mathematicians can add and many cannot teach mathematics 
but can teach naval history. and such.

main: layout [
        vh2 "Subpanel Examples"
        guide
        pad 20
        button "Panel 1" [panels/pane: panel1  show panels]
        button "Panel 2" [panels/pane: panel2  show panels]
        button "Quit" [quit]
        return
        box 2x140 maroon
        return
        panels: box 220x140 coal
    ]


Hi all, what does guide do above - I can't find it in the Dictionary

I'm looking at the REBOL Dictionary

The dictionary doesn't contain dialected words, unfortunately

Thanks Henrik, I was a bit confused by looking thru the core and 
dictionary functions - the examples don't really show advantages/disadvantages 
for real world apps

Most of had Starting Forth and Thinking Forth so our bosses bought 
us great huge fat Thesauri  thinking it would make us better  coders. 
 We laughed at first, then our dictionary grew to the 100,000 word 
mark and they started to get  dog eared.  :)

there are three other function! type building functions:
DOES
HAS
FUNCTION

look them up in the online rebol dictionary: 
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

you can also get help directly in the rebol console:

>> help does
USAGE:
    DOES body

DESCRIPTION:

     A shortcut to define a function that has no arguments or locals.
     DOES is a function value.

ARGUMENTS:
     body -- The body block of the function (Type: block)

(SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES)
     catch

It's right there in the dictionary, under "Port, File, and IO Functions":
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

graham: i'm not using a dictionary, and i'm not sure i want to do 
that in the pdf maker. i think it's more low level than that. otoh, 
doing so could provide some optimization (don't hypenate if it's 
not needed, like TeX does), so i'm not completely against it.

pdf wants the dct data, not the whole jpg binary, afaik. the data 
in the jpg header go to the image object dictionary.

so if you have a dictionary, you can preprocess your text and just 
output that.

BTW, the split-text function we worked on in the parse channel would 
be useful for counting lines.  All we need now is a hyphenation dictionary 
:)

My little spellchecker moved to rebol.org and takes its dictionary 
from there: http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=spellck.r

Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-030.zip


*** Note that this version requires View 1.2.124 or later, and that 
the zip file is unusually large (346Kb) as it includes a dictionary 
file (future builds wont). ***

Highlights include:

	- New language, dictionary and spellcheck functionality added

 - Documentation on above at: http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/edit.html#section-4
	- All objects merged into one context
	- Major code reorganization / restructure
	- Reduced number of global words to 11
	- Pre-0.3.0 comments removed
	- Pre View 1.2.124 code removed
	- New text-list widget added
	- Added show-color accessor function

 - rebface and rebfocus synonyms to avoid collision with face / focus
	- Large number of bug fixes
	- http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/roadmap.htmlupdated

Known issues:


 - edit feel needs to support tab / shift+tab into and out of "grouping" 
 widgets

 - cursor down goes to end of text instead of next line?! (yell if 
 you know the answer as I'm stumped on this one)
	- focus

 - edit-list / drop-list should use show-popup/away (some compatibility 
 problems)

On the drawing board

	- area widget needs a scroller added to it by default
	- field format / validation masks
	- menu widget
	- better keyboard navigation / focus

I'm surprised no-one's asked why memory usage doubled from 0.2.4 
to 0.3.0 ;)  (before anyone does ask, it's the dictionary)

dictionary of spell checker?

If you don't need / want it then just delete the dictionary directory 
... if it can't find it then it won't be loaded. Spell-check is important 
for report generation front-ends (or at least that's where I'm using 
it).

http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/edit.html#section-4

The dictionary, if present, is then loaded into the dict block.

Graham: If you want to reduce RebGUI's memory footprint just rename 
%dictionary/American.dat ... that alone accounts for more than half 
the memory footprint. ;)

Interestingly enough, adding:

	button "Clear" [clear system/locale/dict]

or

	button "Clear" [system/locale/dict: none]


to %tour.r have lesser and differing effects (from a stats / recycle 
perspective).

I think you'll find that the spelll checking dictionary contributes 
to the memory rise.

Official Strine dictionary. http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/dict/slang-s.html

Added Czech dictionary file (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/roadmap.html) 
and dat files provided by Bobik (see http://www.dobeash.com/files/CzechWin.dat
and http://www.dobeash.com/files/CzechLinux.datfor different char 
encodings - win-1250 & ISO-8859-2 respectively).

I've come against a strange problem. When I do this
	read http://www.dobeash.com/files/rebgui/dictionary/American.dat

it stops and gives a network timeout after reading 23% of the file.
bytes: 68432 of total: 293605 = 23.31 %

This is repeatable. I tried with read-thru/progress and a simple 
read.
Bizarre

stick for new styles. if i could use widgets in vid, i would do my 
styles with rebguii. (also need a bsmall version, a few 10 kb then. 
i guess without dictionary would be enough).

0.3.9 is out and it has a lot of fixes / enhancements. From a REBOL/View 
console:

	do http://www.dobeash.com/get-rebgui.r
	do view-root/public/www.dobeash.com/RebGUI/tour.r


The dictionary file has been removed from the distribution and the 
download path has been changed from:

	www.dobeash.com/files/rebgui -> www.dobeash.com/RebGUI


so you may want to delete view-root/public/www.dobeash.com in its 
entirety first to clean things up.


In addition to the large number of fixes ( http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/issues.html#section-2.2
), a number of enhancements are documented here:

	http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html#section-2.1.7
	http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html#section-3.2.4
	http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html#section-3.2.5
	http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html#section-5.20

Also note the following:

	view-face is now activate-on-show by default

 Added a request-password requestor (its password widget problems 
 are known issues)
	group-box and tab-panel now auto-size

 Table column headings are now always left aligned and clicking the 
 arrow works

 Added an 'effects context (only window is present, but others like 
 'button, 'check, etc may be added in future)


And lastly, you will notice that %tour.r has a new "Appearance" tab 
where you can dynamically alter RebGUI's metrics, colors and effects. 
Note that some colors are still "hard-bound" at context creation 
and won't change - these will be made dynamic (via a set-colors func?) 
in the future. Apart from showing off RebGUI's dynamic scaling and 
display abilities, this lets you more easily prototype a unique look 
for your own apps if you want, and if you come up with a set of options 
that is truly fantastic then share it here and it may just become 
the new RebGUI default.

Enjoy!

Download and install a dictionary file: http://www.dobeash.com/RebGUI/edit.html#section-4.2

I already had the dictionary and didn't realize it. Anywat it still 
doesn't work. What else could I be doing wrong?

Spell-check requires a locale.dat file (which you can copy and rename 
from those under the language directory) and a matching dictionary 
file in the dictionary directory. Example:

	1) Copy %language/British.dat %locale.dat
	2) Download and unzip %British.dat into %dictionary/British.dat
	3) Run %tour.r
	4) Click "Field" then "Area" tabs
	5) Click in the area and press Ctrl+S


This should bring up a spell-check dialog with suggested word replacements.

maybe I haven't got the dictionary set up correctly.

Ok, need to create a english.dat file and place into the dictionary 
folder.

Ashley, how about including a dictionary directory, with english.dat 
in the svn?

I vote for getting VID stuff into the dictionary :-)

Hello Denis,


So, one of the things a group of us have been talking about is doing 
some group lessons (world wide).


We have researched some tools for making this possible.  We narrowed 
it down to Macromedia's Breeze.  In fact last week I talked for about 
2 hours with their team (meaning the people that actually designed 
and programmed it).


This week I'm talking to their OEM leads about integrating Breeze 
from Rebol into Web applications.


So our first Breeze interactive lesson will be in a few weeks is 
my guess.  WE have not idea how good it will be with more than 10 
people, and world wide, but we are going to try.


As to a road map.  Programming languages in general are difficult 
to learn in a methodical method.  Rebol being even more difficult 
(in my opinion), because learning the structure does not help very 
much.  Even learning how Rebol works is not all that usefull (compared 
to lets say Basic, or a Batching system).

I will make some simple suggestions though:


1.	Go to Rebol.com, and read what is offered there.  It actually 
is a good starting point.  Rebol Essentials" which is a PDF on the 
site is worth reading.


2.	Write your own dictionary.  Literally, pick a given word in Rebol, 
use it in a sentence.  And just work your way through all 400+ words. 
 You can do it in a few hours.  All you need to do is try to use 
it in a way the Rebol Dictionary does not use it.



3.	Build something you really want to build.  Unless you have a goal, 
working on anything is going to be boring.  Think of a utility, or 
a game that you have always wanted to understand better, or want 
to play with, and build it.  Another cool concept is to simply copy 
it from an existing version in some other language you already know, 
or that is more simple (like Basic).

And thanks for the ideas you have given me. I am taking note of them. 
And yes, I do have a project or two I want to write in Rebol. Maybe 
I should choose the instructions from the dictionary with the aim 
to integrate them in on of my projects.

hmm, there is a Dictionary, and it is in categories, but not much 
of a categories ...

Organisation : it's already done!

The online (html but not uptodate) dictionary and the Rebol one (In 
desktop / Rebol.com / Tools / Word browser) have categories.

kib, I often use the REBOL dictionary: http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

kib2, note: the web based dictionary is older and less updated than 
the word browser, but it works OK.

Henrik - isn't kib's sheet similar to how R2 function dictionary 
was structured? I suggested Carl to sub-structure R3 function reference 
too ....

I am reading the documentation that comes with the REBOL Word Browser 
(Dictionary) when I downloaded rebol. (2.7).

Pass! I'm not enough into your problem to point you into a direction. 
But go on and read some more of the docs, and you should be able 
to help yourself some more:

http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html
http://www.rebol.com/docs/dictionary.html

i've download abiword because my office don't have the engish dictionary 
:) i corrected some errors http://www.geocities.com/benjaminmaggi/doc/comlib.html

and the plain text version is here http://www.geocities.com/benjaminmaggi/doc/com4rebol.txt

Of note, I WANT to NOT be on Windows.  I'm getting closer every day. 
 In fact the spell checker in Qtask means I don't use Word so much, 
but we need to add a scaling input box (I like to see more of what 
I'm writing). We are going to get the spell dictionary into AltME 
eventually.

Three problems with them:


1) The widget engine is a hefty 12MB or so download (for widgets 
that are nothing other than HTML+CSS+Javascript+Images bundled in 
a zip file with a magic extension)

2) The download/installation process tries repeatedly to high-jack 
your browser preferences

3) The widgets look pretty ordinary compared to the OS X dashboard 
equivalents (go here, http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/and 
compare the respective dictionary/thesaurus offerings)

Widgets are good if they are done right. I like the dictionary widget 
for example in Tiger. If I'm watching a movie and someone says a 
word I don't know, I press F12, type the word, get an explanation, 
press F12 again without every pausing the movie or manipulating windows.

I had a few problems with 'join and 'rejoin in the beginning because 
I somehow expected them to be a bit like form and reform, using the 
same arguments as input. That's of course not logical, but I think 
that the 'word and 're-word naming of functions, doesn't entirely 
fit and actually limits the naming scheme, making it a disadvantage 
rather than an advantage.


Does 'recycle have anything to do with 'reduce? Or 'remove? No. One 
might think up a 'move function that does 'reduce. That would clash 
with 'remove, but 're- has two different meanings.


Words in rebol usually have sensible naming, something you can pick 
out of the dictionary and it'll make sense, except for those with 
're- in front of them. If you take them out of context and try to 
explain them, you have to know about 'reduce, but the dictionary 
meaning of the 're- words is something different. I don't have any 
suggestions on how to change this though, other than add a dash: 
re-form, re-join, re-mold...:-)

What advantages does HASH have over regular blocks, I can access 
a regular block like a dictionary anyway

the new dictionary will have Wiki features and possibly a comments 
section.

yes, but dictionary does not break compatibility, money! would (view 
scripts don't run in r3 but core scripts may run quite well)

That one is not in the dictionary page. What's your best  method 
to view those?

Some serious memory usage here in Ladislav's spelling corrector which 
is also in RebGUI

Script: "Spelling Corrector" (none)
loading and initializing(500kb dictionary)...

{somue spelin wordz tu tepst. Fur szore azd seren yaars aga, our 
fatheers brougt fourth on this lans a new natiun.}
some 10605095
spell 25275846
words 25615457
to 25928767
test 25275846
fur 25415461
swore 25755072
and 26071006
seen 26410617
years 26750228
ago 27066162
our 27205777
father 33781190
brought 34123425
fourth 34263040
on 34402655
this 34542270
lane 34860828
a 35000443
new 35140058
nation 27291974

0:00:04.717

from !Altme

Anyone that wants to take part in the testing that is required for 
REBOL3, drop a note here and we can synchronize what words are in 
need of a test case file.  Don't worry, there are many.   All we 
need to avoid is redundancy (well not really as more tests are infinitely 
 better than no tests.)   If you are keen to start, of the word dictionary; 
I'm in the A's.  :)  So if you start at D or E of F we probably won't 
collide.

I have 75% of a dict:// scheme written.  (First thing I did when 
I got in on the alpha.  Took about 6 hours.  Then I got confused 
on the new I/O completion rules.  Haven't looked at it since.)  Soon. 
 I use the R2 dict-demo all the time now.  Nothing beats using the 
REBOL console as a dictionary/thesaurus.  From using KDE, there are 
all kinds of schemes on the wishlist.

Now to do desktop publishing, need a hyphenation dictionary, and 
a way to do kerning.

ERROR: /rangecheckESP Ghostscript 815.04: Unrecoverable error, exit 
code 1
 in --string--
Operand stack:
   picstr   70560
Execution stack:

   %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval-- 
     2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval-- 
     false   1   %stopped_push   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop 
     1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval-- 
     --nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--
Dictionary stack:

   --dict:1125/1686(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:108/200(L)--
Current allocation mode is local

The baseline problem is the one I'm hunting a solution for. About 
the font metrics, the bbox for the whole font is stored in FontBBox 
in the font dictionary.

and this information shouldn't need to be calced if we can get that 
from FontBBox in the font dictionary. still hunting for how to obtain 
it. :-)