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You have to ask cyphre

Then we should order Cyphre to do few AGG tests :-)

So, Cyphre, yes, I agree. And the worst is, that children are the 
victims without a lobby, without a chance. They were not asked to 
be born and fully depend on the responsibility of others.

I've no workaround right now, because I've noticed it half an hour 
ago, but Cyphre's example looks promising.

Thanks for the enlightenment, Cyphre

Cyphre - so why not to fix that system port bug?! That would be nice, 
as old (pre R3) SDK could have fixed that bug

Cyphre, where is this documented?

Cyphre - I doubt this explains it

sorry, Cyphre, it looks that my explanation is exactly the same as 
yours :-)

Hi,  I saw a pretty good error parser in Cyphre's rebsite vconsole.r 
script a long time ago...  

The code is copyright 2001 Cyphre but if you ask nice I'll bet he 
shares it, then again maybe not. So please ask.

Check REBOL/Public/Sites/Cyphre/vconsole.r from the Viewtop.

I haven't seen it, but apparently Cyphre did one in at the last devcon 
.. so have a look at his presentation?

I'm not wondering about it. I used Cyphre's video to kickstart LIST-VIEW 
development. :-) But I think this is an area of VID that remains 
a mystery to most users, as there is very little documentation around 
to explain how it works. Maybe that's why there isn't that many custom 
VID faces around. I seem to remember a ton of custom classes for 
MUI on the Amiga.

Cyphre: This is is alpha channel, I think transparency means key 
color

as long as Cyphre is on View part of R3, I believe the situation 
will be corrected :-)

So here's Cyphre's sollution:

change-vid-font: func [font-name [string!]][

 system/standard/face/font/name: system/view/vid/vid-face/font/name: 
 font-name
	foreach [n f] system/view/vid/vid-styles [
		all [f/font f/font/name: font-name]
	]
]

it is related mainly to non oop design. IIRc R3 will carry inheritance 
(classes). It may be related to each function in object to be simply 
once and once again with each new instance of face. According to 
Cyphre memory savings could be 1/3 to 2/3 of memory in some cases. 
But better ask him ...

Josh - Cyphre was supposed to release systray support last week. 
Hopefully it is soon. Dunno about features though ... (it will be 
.dll based)

Cyphre: and you're going to write that parser? You really have so 
much time?

cyphre, parsing is native for speed, right?

cyphre, do you expect that the new and faster SHOW would be postponed 
to R3? is it tested?

doesn't Cyphre already have an AGG SVG viewer

Cyphre, the bitmap cache is done. It improves the performance a lot, 
like you said.

Thanks, Anton and Cyphre. I am still improving it. : )

hum... a yellow green blue gradient  give me a ring of BLACK right 
in the middle... not what I call very precise... maybe cyphre could 
explain the maths behind the gradients so we can understand  what 
we are doing?

cyphre, I realised that drawing two shapes and using alphas to blend 
between them is the best additive method so far... its obviously 
a little bit slower, but at least it looks good.

Thanks Cyphre and Ashley......I should of course have asked in the 
!RebGui group

Maxim - isn't that a known fact? But for those things, talk to Cyphre, 
he has some experience there iirc.

I making an app that requires a long pick list that will be contained 
in one of cyphre's tab panels that will be relativly narrow. ..so 
"Choice" will not work as the face is not large enough. I've tried 
rebol's drop-down but I can not see the whole widget. Are there refinements 
to this "widget" I can not find any docs on it. I have tried to use 
'Cyphre's drop-down but I am also using the list-view widget and 
htere sems to be some kind of conflict. I have also tried drop-down.r 
from hte library and it displays fine but I can not upate it to display 
waht I select in the list-view widget. Any thoughts?

yes.. what I know, Cyphre has working code for changing cursors... 
in R3 it will be possible without need to use the dll

we'll have cyphre showing rich text tomorrow... we'll show rebcode 
too... i'll show services...

And if he gets Cyphre and Gab full time and one or two others, this 
announcement look a lot more realistic to me :)

The authors were Ladislav, Cyphre and Jaime.

I am just curious - if Cyphre was showing new rich-text capabilities, 
it has to be present in View kernel already - maybe he could release 
a small demo for us? :-)

Cyphre did; he did rich-text and the last 30 secs of his presentation 
he mentioned that doing it in rebcode sped things up a lot.

But honestly, I don't know. I know Gabriele is doing work, Cyphre 
did, ....

I believe all these are tied to the need to get the community involved 
in Rebol's improvements...initiatives like getting Gab and Cyphre 
in ..


a lot of things revolves around getting the language in position... 
(and we do see some movements there )
getting RebService or LNS stuffs...ready..


I believe having these foundation blocks ready is crucial... (from 
memory, I think this is also mention in last year's conference,... 
Carl mentions it... sometimes I can't remember whether it is last 
year events or this years mentions).


I, personally, think there is more opportunity ahead for RT and the 
community given that the above 2 are slowly falling in place (slow 
at times, but strong foundations helps build skyskrapers )

part of our expectations can be better managed... moving forward.


Carl's blog was a good start to help communicate better with us..and 
there is RAMBO...

- Pekr : Carl hasprepared his presentation the night before he given 
it (so he was not in great form this particular day ;-)


- About Internet connection : the scholl connection where we were 
is provided by an Italian telephon companie that ensure the security. 
Mario have tried more than a week before to have some opening on 
it. Lot of faxes, telephon calls and time lost. We were all disapointed 
of that, in or outside the Devcon.


- Rebcode : it will be part of Rebol soon. You can even try it if 
you want (windows builds folder, the zip file). But it still in design 
stage. The form, the capabilities and implementation are sugest to 
changes. Carl has insisted on the fact that rebcode will be a bit 
tricky to use. Kind of assembler code. Not for newbies.


- Rich text : Cyphre show us its work. Actually it's a .dll, like 
he did with AGG in the begining. It's not just a renderer : it's 
editable rich text. Dialect base like Carl's blog proposed. Nothing 
more to say, it's just a prototype, a proof of concept, like AGG 
was at its time. It use AGG as engine, so font can be aliased or 
not.

We compared my rich text engine and his one. Cyphre richtext display 
instantly, but is a bit slow while scrolling but usable. It's because 
everything in the area is recompute. Mine take some time to display, 
but scrolling is just an offset of the pane to change.

- I have ask for a package of new and more advanced styles, based 
on the one already available from Cyphre, Romano, Amon, me... not 
sure it will happen.
- Some asked to replace VID by RebGUI (I'm not for that)

- Carl said that the question need reflection : can VID be reworked 
and enhanced, or should it be replace by RebGUI or something new. 
It still an open question.

@Pekr: "next - I don't understand AGG for sound? Is that just analogy 
simple that we should be looking for kind of AGG library for sound? 
What does Carl mean by  "I am more than happy to publish this info"? 
So, maybe we should look more closely into fmod.org finally (or some 
other library) :-)" 

As you thought Carl meant basically that someone has to find a sound 
eqivalent to AGG and (probably do the work Cyphre has done (my understanding)) 
it could be integrated into Rebol.

The Cyphre's one

Jaime's and Cyphre's slides on too.

Cyphre's video is on too - just need to add the link...

Gabrille, is there an http link for Cyphre's video.

Cyphres link : http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/cyphre.html

Cyphre's can be downloaded via http now too.

can more people seed Cyphre's talk?

Anyone downloaded Cyphre's video yet ? .... I got it downloaded but 
cant play it ....?

Cyphre - in your archive, there is a bug in window.r - there is win1: 
word used, while there should be only win: .... Gabriele - maybe 
you could fix it?

Here is a (hopefully complete) list of links to all the speakers 
and video presentations:

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/carl.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/gregg.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/gabriele.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/cyphre.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/maarten.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/jaime.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/reichart.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/ashley.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/john.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/ladislav.html
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/robert.html

Torrents


http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/Visitto Rome and Milan.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/Discussionsand Banquet.mp4.torrent


http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/CarlSassenrath.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GreggIrwin - Logo.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GreggIrwin - Dialects.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GabrieleSantilli.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/RichardSmolak.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/MaartenKoopmans.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/JaimeVargas.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/BaronR.K. von Wolfshield.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/AshleyTruter.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/JohnNiclasen.mp4.torrent

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/RobertMuench.mp4.torrent

HTTP links


http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/CarlSassenrath.mp4

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GreggIrwin - Logo.mp4

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GreggIrwin - Dialects.mp4

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/GabrieleSantilli.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/RichardSmolak.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/cyphre-slides.zip

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/MaartenKoopmans.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/JaimeVargas.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/beer-slides.pdf

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/BaronR.K. von Wolfshield.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/AshleyTruter.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/JohnNiclasen.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/john-slides.zip
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/RobertMuench.mp4
http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/Robert.pdf

I could understand it some 2-3 years earlier. But now so close to 
beta, with host code soon to be released to first group of testers 
(Max, Cyphre, Brian, according to docs), I don't really don't understand 
what some ppl are questioning here. Last year has seen reboot in 
the R3 development attitude. Gee, 80+ tickets fixed monthly, Carl 
and Brian taking care for each ticket, anyone can influence the development 
and design, etc.

for me LLVM support for REBOL is usefull marketing.  even if cyphre's 
compiler is better.  :-)

I still think, that the best base, albeit commercial, is QNX - lot's 
of target embedded platforms covered ... REBOL could co-work-with, 
or replace Photon GUI ... I want View app in my car, then calling 
Cyphre and lamenting about some bug :-)

Cyphre, I asked my friend and he ran it on an intel GMA950 netbook. 
AFAIK, all it does is stream video.

Cyphre ... make some eye candy !

I still look into R2 Desktop contest demos, especially to Cyphre's 
:-) There's still some potential for eye-candy, though VID does not 
look professional enough anymore. And some other mobile UIs might 
be also using advanced techniques (not sure about 3D, but some transition 
effects are simply avesome)

Cyphre .. I'm sure that that is correct .. except the "you" is not 
:)

Cyphre - we would buy R3 for a reasonable price. Make a 300 USD SDK 
kit for Android, and I am fine with that.

As Cyphre says, it all depends on your abilities. So I can understand 
that many people still feel powerless in the R3 situation, but that's 
the wrong way to approach it. You have to determine what you can 
do already and just do it

STEEVE +100 but STEEVE clearly RMA don't want to work with us they 
want to start their business  using us as publicity and free testing 
ground ... you can't mixe free and not free that way ... If you do 
a foundation that gather  donations and reparts those donations to 
the main "contributors" according to their contribution then it's 
a totally different situation than what is made actually. First the 
source code produced and paid by the foundation belongs to the foundation. 
They don't belong to an obscure commercial entity ( I'm sure Robert 
cyphre and the other has the best volunty in the world and only good 
intention but the way it's done only  make me believe they want to 
use us to get money on our back one way or another)

IMO we are very few here already. What is the other closest group 
to ask for review in rebol community than here? There is RT ... then 
there is few ppl working closely with them - Ladislav, Cyphre, Gabriele, 
then few skilled here (I don't belong there) .... it is pity Carl 
can't find his way to top developers here.

My main question is why the rush?  why not let the community come 
up with a few example prototypes, why not let people like cyphre 
take care of the low-level architecture and make it as perfect as 
I know Cyphre can make it.

Well, generally I vote for - Anton, Henrik, Ashley, Volker, Maxim 
to form a close group to Gabriele and Cyphre, and discuss new VID 
- basic concepts ...

let them shortly review and discuss general direction ... once agreed 
upon, close the door with Cyphre, buy lots of pizza and don't come 
out, unless you are ready with first prototype :-)

I would like to be a part of the early access group, but not for 
VID. My GUI experience is founded in quite different environments 
and my input about GUIs would be more along the lines of API cleanup 
and other low-level stuff. For the major design issues, I defer to 
Carl, Gabriele, Cyphre and the other capable people here - I trust 
your judgement.


I would like to help with some of the other parts of REBOL 3 though. 
My main interests are in language design, interoperability issues 
and platform integration, particularly Windows platforms and derivatives 
since that's what I need to use most of the time.

Henrik - were you at older IOS? Cyphre did very nic menu, OS-like. 
That was so good, that I would not search for any other functionality 
- translucent, automatic alignment when close to window border, context 
menu, floating menu, etc.

http://www.xidys.com/rebol-view/cyphre-menu1.jpg
http://www.xidys.com/rebol-view/cyphre-menu2.jpg

It is part of Cyphre's stylepack, which is freely available from 
rebol.cz somewhere :-)

What I will accept - containers, where I can put whatever inside. 
I will not accept anything specific, which will be more than general 
pane box, because it will push certain usage scenario on me. I want 
to decide, if I place Cyphre's menu there, or yours toolbar ...

Between Cyphre, Geomol, and Christian, we have three solid menuing 
systems to analyze as prototypes. If someone wants to write an interface 
to native OS menus, that can probably be written as an extension 
to R3. The only critical thing would seem to be the ability to attach 
an OS menu to a REBOL window.

i don't know, cyphre needs to answer this.

you mean not recompute the AGG shapes at every show? i think Cyphre 
did it this way.

ask cyphre - but i think it is doable with mezz code. native code 
does not do much.

but... you guys need to ask these questions to cyphre :)

I have heard that you, Cyphre and Carl had some chat about new VID? 
Is there any consensus? Or, path-to-follow defined? Will it be your 
proposal implemented?

for details of how it's done (not sure it's there yet) ask cyphre.

Hi guys..just to confirm R3 alpha  is real: http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/stuff/r3-alpha-splash.jpg

Cyphre - cool, but I can see some white spots there .... the engine 
is buggy - what are the words behind the white color? :-))

http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/stuff/r3-alpha-splash.jpg:-P

my impression is, that Cyphre is doing View kernel design, no? Or 
just plugging in subsystems? We miss some guys with gfx kernel experiences 
here :-)

geomol, i'm sure cyphre knows about it, but i don't think we're going 
to explore that anytime soon. we have key-up for control, shift, 
and so on already.

Pekr, in the plugin, you specify an initial window which appears 
in the browser. You are not allowed to open new OS-level windows, 
therefore if you want to open new windows they must be VID-level 
windows. How do you do that ? You add faces to the first face's PANE, 
 start calling them "windows", and use code such as Cyphre's SWIS 
system to implement it. Simple as that.

Cyphre - will there be access to buffer? Or is the OGL the thing, 
which will speed-up blitting, because it uses HW to draw?

that would be yet another Cyphre question :-)

Imagine - if Cyphre worked on View kernel alone, he imo concentrated 
upon rich-text, proper AGG integration, etc.

So far the most precise docs in View area are Cyphre's draw docs. 
Well, those are mostly a reference. I also like make-gobs doc.

Latest report: Nothing big has happened in a couple of days. Carl 
is buried in some work and bugfixing. I'm building the new requester 
system with the new way to parse dialects. 267 bug reports listed. 
Cyphre has talked about speed optimizations that will be made to 
the graphics system. Pekr is talking. A lot. :-) Gabriele is also 
busy coding.


There are many requests on ports for OSX and Linux as this Windows-only 
thing is getting rather old. Geomol has shown interest in the OSX 
port. Brian Tiffin has shown interest in the Linux port. Both, I'm 
sure, could use some help at some point, if anyone is interested. 
:-)

I can understand your situation and it's an unfortunate thing. The 
only thing I can say that might help, is that there have been suggestions 
about a plan to extend the alpha to the users in this world, so experienced 
REBOLers can take a look at it and "kick the tires", so to speak.


The problem with doing that is that it creates talk. Lots of talk. 
"why is this there? why does this function do that? I don't like 
this!" We have had a TON of discussions over the design of VID3 on 
how to do this and that, and we're not done with that yet. It's very 
time consuming to do that, when one man (Gabriele) wants to sit quietly 
and work out the design on his own until it's ready. It's just faster 
that way in the long run. Every time a new guy comes in, 500 questions 
need to be answered and it's usually the same 500 questions as the 
last new guy. :-)


Ideally, no questions should be asked until after about a week of 
use and start testing it right away. If there is a problem or a bug, 
consult the bug tracker or the documentation database, look at the 
discussions and the design documents and keep out of particularly 
Carl's, Gabriele's and Cyphre's hair until they crawl out from their 
holes on their own.

wait, 1st august was not "beta", it was "getting the alpha to a wider 
audience". it has been suggested that it would have been bad to do 
so, so in the end it wasn't done. the dates were not unrealisting, 
they were based on the idea of releasing "early". that idea was later 
on opposed and so it wasn't done. also, the august date was based 
on the fact that me and cyphre had to be away from r3 development 
for august and september, and so we thought it was better to release 
rather than delay two months.

I didn't know that you and Cyphre were unavailable in August and 
September, but it explains that there seems to have been very little 
tangible progress

Where are ppl like - Steve Shireman, Doc, Cyphre, Gabriele, Ladislav? 
Working privately, even for REBOL related business, but they are 
not here. Well, Gabriele is here often, others are not. Volker, Anton?

And yes, from some perspective, ppl like Cyphre, Ladislav, Gabriele, 
DocKimbel are kind of REBOL "gods", not easily replacable.

Cyphre would know more about that. He's still adding features to 
DRAW.

is Cyphre still working on qtask?

Having REBOL in JAVA would get rebol onto most mobile devices and 
nearly everywhere. OTOH - JAVA on mobile devices is restricted, not 
consistent across the platforms - just ask Cyphre for his experience. 
So, maybe, and I repeat - maybe - it will be easier to port REBOL 
to most platforms, rather than to do REBOL-in-JAVA project.

http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/stuff/r3-alpha-splash.jpg<-- it's pretty 
old. the new one contains clickable links.

I think that you guys should be inspired by cyphre's grid for rebgui, 
which he was paid for, but sadly it did not get utilised :-) Grid 
has to be able to display data right away from the result of SQL 
query, period.

I pushed Cyphre to give me virtual columns, so I was able to hide, 
insert columns, have columns with other functionality, but those 
were kept outside the main data block.

Our community was always passionate, but not big enough. Each nice 
and good project was mostly a one-man show. Then - those more skilled 
rebollers got rebol related jobs. That is very nice, but also has 
some side-effects. Those ppl nearly vanished from public radar. Where's 
Doc, Cyphre, Ladislav, Gabriele, Voker, Anton? Well, Gabriele could 
be probably excluded from the group, as he is active even on ml.

no, it is just some kind of slow-down period. Activities around R3 
should be renewed as we speak, it seems Gabriele and Cyphre will 
be back on R3 full-time soon. There is also draft of release strategy. 
It seems RT decided (upon suggestions) to divide R3 release, so we 
should see Core like R3 alpha in one month, View will come later 
(2 - 3 months)