AltME groups: search

Vincent: http://www.fmod.orgwas suggested by Cyphre, but we don't 
know if RT would add it. But who knows, - we now have AGG :-)

We know of two G a couple of R(s), Some C(s) [Carl Cyphre]. But Cyphre 
real name is Richard so he can be confuse with R for  Reichart.

But I had seen others addressing Cyphre as Richard.

Cyphre - they would have to use your grid then :-)

Thanks Cyphre. I believe with this app, this is the case as it is 
able to be launched from another script and then return to that script. 
Good catch. I will fix that. dekuji vám!

I think that Cyphre or someone else could be contracted, to improve 
feeling to AltME in a big way - e.g. list-box with available worlds 
is simply awful - typical VID bug - you can't escape it by pressing 
escape, you can't escape it by clicking outside, you can't escape 
it in any way ... that just makes so bad impression here ....

DideC: here is result of the test on my machine: http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/agg-ansi.png
It looks normal here imo. But Rebol is not unicode yet so this is 
problematic area. Which version of Windows are you using? What default 
codepage/keyboard/national settings?

[Cyphre | Gabriele]: Do you still need more information about the 
Win98 crash or is it solved?

If needed I can send an echoed trace log file to your email address.

yes I read it cyphre long time ago when it was recently published 
but one thing that's apear to me dangerous is for example use:

Cyphre not at all and that's why I came here first to expose the 
problems then to seek solutions with you

Cyphre - you should let Carl know that you want callback handling. 
 I know several of us have wanted that.

Cyphre do you have documentation on AGG anywhere?

cyphre how do you do it ?

Cyphre you comming to my main point ;) giving to carl a premaid function 
that allow us to deal easyly with array (int, float, char what ever 
type) but for struct based array that's a challenge too and an horrible 
task to do

in the current way to handle you need to be very sharp to can interact 
with it from rebol and that why Cyphre you have all my admiration 
for your quick made AGG external exploitation script ...

bye and thank you cyphre for your contribution to thi discution.

Yes, Gabriele, that's what I supposed it's all about, but since in 
the places I've seen it, the function weren't used as first class 
values, but rather evalutated. Jaime pointed me to another reason: 
the GET IN variant doesn't break if an object doesn't feature the 
wanted "slot". That really makes sense where code can't be too sure 
about the objects it handles.


Actually, though the guru code I mentioned was some of your changes 
to the view event- and modal system (I'm still working my way thru 
it, trying to understand it's pickier details) and other view related 
code snippets from cyphre, I'd really thought I'd better ask in core 
group, since it may come down to a more broader misconception of 
path evalutation I had. I'm happy to see that it's "only" the point 
Jamie made which I overlooked.

Well. You pointed them to network Rebol consultants that could support 
them. (Gabriele, Robert, Cyphre, Ladislav, Greg, DideC, Nenad and 
others...)

find-each: func [dataset [series!] value /local result][
    result: copy []
    parse dataset [

        any [set word string! (if find word value [append result word])]
    ]
    result
]

>> find-each ["Jaime" "Carl" "Cyphre"] "a"
== ["Jaime" "Carl"]
>> find-each ["Jaime" "Carl" "Cyphre"] "y"
== ["Cyphre"]

find-each: func [dataset [series!] value /local result][
    result: copy [] 
    parse dataset [

        some [set word string! (if find word value [append result word]) 
        | skip]
    ] 
    result
]


>> find-each ["Jaime" 1 "Carl" 2 "Cyphre" 3 http://google.com"Ladislav"] 
"a"   
== ["Jaime" "Carl" "Ladislav"]

Cyphre there is no critics in what I say that's just what I see ... 
sorry If  what I see is negative.

Cyphre asking for more clarity in R3 and R3/GUI after 2 reboot of 
R3/GUI project and 5 years of Alpha isn't an insult you know ...

Did Cyphre ever release his agg_lite.dll with text rendering as he 
said he was going to do for devcon?

there is trouble with keyboard in rebol. I am not sure, but IIRC 
Cyphre can talk about that. You can't catch key-up event for e.g., 
no ctrl plus tab, etc keys ...

You can look for Cyphre's Shadow of the beast demo -  it is nice, 
it also shows parallax scrolling to some degree, but keyboard is 
real limitation ....

in front of vi of windows notepad for example it's oriented  Make 
doc Pro (Robert Version) and the look and feel is not has nice that 
if I could include in it the whole widget AGG based set of Cyphre

Cyphre..are those bitstream fonts you are using? I dont seem to get 
ttf working or ANY other font working in my linux view version beside 
the default fonts...

you can see the grabbed result here: http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/tests/font-test.png

Oo Pekr.. I was just currious If font would work with Draw under 
linux.. since Cyphre pointed out that it worked...

Thanks Cyphre...

cyphre, what was done to solve the problem? is it part of needing 
to support individual distributions now?

exactly, that should work. refer to Cyphre for more details (i think 
agg text on unix is still somewhat experimental)

On the 23rd March, Cyphre posted an example of using true type fonts. 
 I tried it on Fedora Core 6, substituting other true type fonts 
I had, and correcting the paths as appropriate and get a blank screen 
:(

Cyphre, since you mentioned freetype, and freetype is capable of 
using type 1 fonts, does this mean that we will have type 1 fonts 
available at some stage soon?

Nicolas, try this:
do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/scripts/r2/toys/imap-cli.r


this is very simple CLI for access to google IMAP server (others 
should work too).


Once you run it you can just type at thh prompt IMAP commands. Snippet 
of example session:

Script: "IMAP CLI in REBOL" (none)
{* OK Gimap ready for requests from 90.183.64.72 27if531665fxm.20
}
IMAP>>login user pass

{* CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT LITERAL+ IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID 
XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE
A0001 OK [user-:-gmail-:-com] authenticated (Success)
}
IMAP>>examine inbox
{* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()]
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 2]
* 5989 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDNEXT 70472]
A0002 OK [READ-ONLY] inbox selected. (Success)
}
IMAP>>

Hope this can be useful...

Cyphre

I also see differences in the pixel-precision, when using DRAW. It 
seems, Cyphre's changes to DRAW are included in this release.

Henrik - IIRC Cyphre did convolve as an Rebcode test - but as rebcode 
is not inside, I expect currently convolve is in-built ...

Cyphre, I wouldn't mind having a few more opcodes that are really 
optimized for pixel writing as opposed to general purpose opcodes 
that are "sort of fast" :-)

Thanks, Cyphre.  I was afraid that would be the case.

Louis I think that depends on how many people work on widgets set 
and what capabilities and imaginativ they are  :) (Cyphre style with 
AGG are trully a good research way )

like transparente popupmenu layer for menu bars in cyphre style sets 
using AGG

Cyphre has that feature in his tabbed view widget.

list (single or multi column): I once have hired Cyphre to create 
a style for me. Very useful and powerful. If someone is interested 
I can provide the code as a starting point (or at least as idea pool). 
You can find some documentation for it on my homepage under project 
data-form dialect.

I 'm starting an intent to port to rebGUI an improved version of 
ctx-menu from cyphre :)

but first thing the adaptation of the Ctx-menu as all your actual 
widgets in it arre trully piece of art work I intent to do the same 
way with cyphre"s ctx-menu port to REBGUI :)

RebGUI 0.1.6 (b) version that includes cyphre's ctx-menu is done 
;) Well it was added as it and as I'm less an artist than Ashley 
I let it functionnal as it was mainly designed by cyphre. I add a 
little trick and some code to it to make it more resemblant to a 
common menu and add the possibility to draw text starting from left... 
I hope Ashley or others could take some amount of their precious 
time to see it and enhance this very first implementation to make 
it even more in the mood of RebGUI

hehehe no problem I think firsst we will provide it easy and then 
we could enhance it maybe cyphre wants to apport some code to it 
and enbetter it

Carl If I had the knowledge to do so I will do so but most of what 
I learn about it was learn through the simple but amazing anamonitor 
and every day I learn new things Ashley is very y mentor  like cyphre 
or didec or Etienne Alaurent  :)

Alpha2 build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-020.zip

Highlights include:


 - New, unit based sizing model (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/display.html)

 - Improved language localization (see http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/locale.html)

 - New arrow, chevron, check-group, led-group, scroller, spinner and 
 drop-list widgets
	- Lots of minor fixes
	- show redefine removed
	- Use of -1 instead of 9999 to denote auto-size
	- Aesthetic improvements (use of gradients)
	- %tour.r substantially rewritten

Known issues

	- spinner and drop-list widgets need more work
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel (shadwolf)
	- Menu (cyphre / shadwolf)
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)

That leaves less than half a dozen widgets to go!

	list		single column
	listview	multi-column
	treeview
	popup-menu	context menu
	status		status bar with one or more “segments”

I will made maybe a merge betwin cyphre my-list and Claude table 
widgets first because Table is twice biger in code than my-list and 
second because some fonctionnality interresting in table made by 
claude.

the alternative is what cyphre does for his tabbed panel gadget .. 
which is an arrow on the right which shifts the tabs left and right

I will probably go directly for devcon to Milan, leaving Rome visit 
for some later time once I will be rich :-) Well, I will see - I 
need to talk to Cyphre and Ladislav how do we travell. If we can 
go by one car, the expenses will be lower of course ...

petr: cyphre is looking for a topic... so maybe you can suggest that 
to him :)

With all of the talk about new widgets etc, maybe Cyphre would be 
interested in a tutorial or introduction into building new View or 
RebGUI widgets?

okay I have imporved matrix support it seems to be good for scale-x: 
1 scale-y: 1 if cyphre can see the code of the matrix gestion and 
makes some fix optimisation it could allow us to advance more with 
the rest of the SVG word format

matrix intervention of cyphre could be very educationnal and help 
me a lot to see what I'm messing in my code

transform problem are on their way to be solve gradient too by cyphre 
and  Carl those  two things are the most blockant problems until 
they are not completly solved we can't expect to have a full working 
SVG rendering engine  -> most of SVG  imagines use transform effects 
and gradients this means    that if we want to get a pretty good 
and reliable SVG engine we have to fixe those two issue. SVR rendering 
engine is a good and hudge test upon AGG integration to REBOL/View 
and it allows us to embetter it !!! 


Once we get a fully working engine with basic human understandable 
algorithm i will start the  optimisation process using  parse (but 
to be franck i don't  know how parse will react in front svg row 
data or how will be the time to dev this parse based SVG engine ... 
 in all cases I think the actual engine have teached me a lot arrounf 
the SVG to AGG adaptation process so i hope the translation to parse 
and parse/rules will not be too hard and too long)

just a note to Sound. Some time ago, when Cyphre tried to do media 
player in REBOL for us, he complained about some bugs in smooth playback. 
Carl released C code for the sound system in REBOL - this is some 
2 - 3 pages of C code (mostly wrappers) IIRC? Maybe we could fix 
few things for next R2 release?

do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/dotflowers.r

cyphre: great stuff

WOW Cyphre o_0 cool stuff

Nice, Cyphre :)

cyphre, maybe that's why show is heavy? Show is very resolution dependant, 
so if I set the screen area to just 800x600, dotflowers becomes about 
half as fast, no longer smooth. If I go to 1280x960, I get about 
5-7 fps.

cyphre, beautifull. :)

I just ran Cyphre's Dotflowers at 1600x1200 and it ran pretty good. 
 it ate 75-99% of my CPU but it worked.  While it was running though 
it messed up the OS's window layering somehow.  When I click on a 
window in the background it does become the active window but is 
not brought to the top of the window stack.

I thing that Cyphre is slowing down your PC intentionally for you 
just to not be blowed-out so imediatelly :-))

Cyphre, use OR instead of ADD and there will be no troubles with 
arithmetic overflow. It'll be faster too.

I guess Cyphre has a good qualification for such statements ;)

hmm, not sure Cyphre, but you are the guru. Does windows has anything 
like face? If you would use only its windowing system, it is just 
what win32API allows you - dialogs, etc. - so no such flexibility, 
unless you would code View like compositing yourself

cyphre, hopefully it wouldn't have to be the end of it. it should 
be the final product that users should pay for and native support 
for GUIs is not the goal but the means. I think it would be a bit 
sad if Rebol had yet another essential component as payware. you 
can do most of this stuff for free on other languages, which would 
cause even smaller motivation for using Rebol as a development platform.


this is why I release my components (LIST-VIEW, Tester, Tab-view, 
TOOLBAR) as BSD licensed freeware. If I didn't, I would have zero 
users.

Cyphre - I also agree with your another pov, which you had in the 
past. It all seems simple at the beginning, but once you delve more 
deeply into it, things start to complicate. Bringing native OS binding 
for Rebol imo would cost many resources. And I believe first version 
would be just ugly wrapper, containing more or less stright conversion, 
using Win32 logic. Isn't there a fact, that others do use other, 
mainly cross-platform bindings? We have View, but wouldn't native 
toolkit project be just reinventing the wheel? Others use tk, gtk, 
qt, wxwidgets, etc.

Cyphre did find some link to beta Ruby/AGG release, which one note 
of author, stating something like "Download beta release, but this 
is unexpectadly slow :-(" ... which could mean there is still a long 
way to go for them, and we can have REBOL 4.0 by that time ...

Jaime - you never so my code, so don't try to pretend I am not able 
to code. That I don't produce any code does not mean I am not able 
to. I have different orientation at my current job, that is all. 
And of course, I am really not a good coder to provide code of Cyphre 
level quality.

hopefully Cyphre will bring 2.4 into View ......

... and for new Rebol (but Cyphre or Carl could confirm), IIRC someone 
said, even compositing engine will be replaced, just dunno if by 
the one in AGG ...

If Cyphre is in charge, I expect him to push Carl for more media 
features :-)

e.g. Bobik prefers 'blocked mode as a default, as he can directly 
pass it to grid (Henrik and Cyphre's too IIRC)

Now at work - one more note, Ashley - my typical app design is as 
follows - application directory containing exe or modules, .cfg files, 
\system subdirectory, which contains other subdirectories as \cyphre-styles, 
\rebgui, \rebdb, \sqlite, according to usage, and \data subdirectory 
... so I am not sure that by default the driver should create the 
directory, as in the contrary when I want simply to have my data 
in \data dir, I don't want the driver to automatically create \my-db-name 
subdir ....

hmm, not sure it is kind of zero char string terminator, as rebol 
suggests, but strange stuff indeed and maybe a rebol bug .... e.g. 
with even new View and  Cyphre's grid I am able to get such strange 
chars in particular cells ....

Josh - not sure if it is too early or not, but maybe we should start 
to coordinate a bit - I mean - docs, user demos - remove not functioning. 
We need to be ready, that once we release, we have nice, and mainly 
ONLY functioning demos there. Then someone could write multiple instances 
bouncing ball, probably Cyphre :-)

Cyphre, I get the same answer on both:

>> 128 * 1.7
== 217.6


But that doesn't mean much, since I know I have the same version 
of viewdll.dll installed. You can verify the version # of the REBOL 
DLL in the plugin by going to the following page: http://www.rebol.net/plugin/tests/test.html.

Cyphre, what happens with other values?

Cyphre: I will research that. Seems like a locale problem.

Cyphre: It seems like the problem is related to how REBOL is parsing 
the " * 1.7" part under Czech locale. It seems like it's not multiplying 
it by 1.7, but rather by 1. IOW, it is ignoring the decimal point 
when parsing the number. It is possible that the IE plugin build 
is defaulting the locale to U.S., hence why it works there. Note 
the following results under FF:

>> 128 * 1.7
== 128,.0
>> 64 * 1.5
== 64,.0
>> 5 * 1.2
== 5,.0
>> 5 * 2.2
== 10,.0
>> 5 * 3.8
== 15,.0

I'll need to research this with Carl when he gets back.

well, whole new View is 100% AGG :-) Cyphre switched compositing 
engine to that of AGG internally AFAIK

I can say I have probably helped Cyphre into a few decisions, which 
are old requests of mine.

Doc - do you want cool Systray support? Works excellently.  Dony 
by Cyphre for me, BSD ....

:-) I worked as personal tester for Cyphre and Romano few times :-)

if Cyphre can show that OpenGL can be compiled within (with a proof 
of concept demo, just to show that its actually possible),  for example.

some guys are already in France :-) IIRC Rebolek and Cyphre travelled 
on Saturday already ...

Is that Cyphre on the Right?

Cyphre is looking bored ....

Thanks, Cyphre.  Duly updated...

Hmm, I will have to talk about it with Cyphre. But after all those 
years, I wanted to see Carl :-) And if we do 2008 in Prague, next 
time it will be another place (hopefully I will be able to visit). 
But I also planned small promo, some media interview with Carl, etc. 
Anyway - as for RT - there is not DevCon this year ....

I hope that Reichart takes what I will say now easy, as it is just 
my pov, but while Qtask give real work to some of REBOL guys, which 
is really cool, it might be also the cause why some top guys vanished. 
How often Cyphre, Gabriele, Anton, are here? Cyphre did not touch 
View for 8 or more months? Some things are not still finished. It 
is two sided sword.

Cyphre's work on REBOL is paid work, and they tend to accumulate 
a whole batch of fixes for him to do in one job.

Qtask is their primary work, no? I am not accusing Qtask of anything, 
just that it is a primary job, which keeps guys busy. It is not only 
about REBOL, but those guys vanished from public REBOL life almost 
altogether. Can't remember Cyphre's post here, or to ML, Gabriele 
is here sporadically too.

Gabriele and Cyphre aren't very social.

... or ... we can ask Cyphre to fix it? :-)