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I agree with Henrik 90%. The hard part is picking the target app 
and important elements. A game, or modern app with animation elements 
is a very different target than an "efficiency above all" business 
app. One of my failed attempts with REBOL was to get Carl, for just 
this reason, to identify a target audience. It guides your design. 


In the case of a Red/REBOL GUI, maybe there is no single design or 
dialect. Making small apps simple is hard to match to the needs of 
complex apps. If you're writing database/CRUD apps, wouldn't it be 
great to have a toolset designed just for that? That same toolset 
won't work well for games though.


I think using an IDE as the first target app is a *fantastic* idea. 
It covers a lot of areas, including the possibility of building on 
an extensible app framework (something lighter than Eclipse :-), 
files, documents, workflow, tool integration, customization, and 
many UI elements. And *we*, developers, are the target audience.

Crud indeed.

Crud, brief synopsis:

	write s3://<bucket>/my-file.txt "My File"

 write/custom/binary s3://<bucket>/my-png.png read/binary %my-png.png 
 [read]
	editor s3://<bucket>/my-file.txt
	layout [image load s3://<bucket>/my-png.png]

Requires AWS key and secret.

That's the other crud.  U is the same as R on S3 (as near as I can 
tell) and D is a little way off.

an example of CRUD will be very  good  ;-)

an example of CRUD will be very  good

REBOL []





do %db.r

do %rebgui.r




display "RebDB Test" [
	button "Create" [
		db-create my-table [ID Date]
	]
	button "Insert" [
		db-insert my-table reduce ['next now/date]
	]
	button "Select" [
		display "My Table" [

   table options ["ID" right .2 "Date" right .8] data (db-select * my-table)
		]
	]


]





do-events

when i ask for a CRUD example i think about a optimize way of => 
1 - select data from a table-widget  2 - show values of each data 
of a row 3 - accept insert & update & remove 4 - check values before 
insert or update table-db and table-widget.

have a look on my little test to do a application http://users.skynet.be/fc078613/carte.r
  you mus select in the menu "maintenace/joueurs" this is a CRUD 
like i think

is there anything close to ruby rails wrt automatically defing MySQL 
CRUD operations ? I find rails really cool, something Rebol could 
easily do !!

hi i would like to give you a example i am trying to do of a CRUD 
application

Create Retrieve Update and Destroy records = CRUD

Yeah, I can do a lot of  this with Rebol, but I will spend more than 
10 minutes to have basic CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Destroy) code, 
and much more it I want all of the rest.

Well, a refinement and a datatype with semantics of junk, power in 
my opinion, scary REBOL breaking crud to others (others that I do 
respect the opinion of), but I can't see the fear of this datatype!

a good demo In My Humble Opinion, will be a CRUD example application 
full R3

From CRUD you have CRU nowadays

N-Tier I get. Presnetation layer, App Logic, Database Layer. This 
ORM is another layer between the app logic and database and was wondering 
if you lose flexibility and performance. Is the real gain in crud 
style applications because I don't think I would want another layer 
in a BI/Reporting application.

Henrik, thanks for posting your db-reactor ideas. Is there a reason 
not to use the standard REBOL series func names for actions. i.e. 
insert/change/remove/select rather than add/update/delete/get? Another 
option would be the names from CRUD. 


What does the underscore in your _data naming convention indicate?


I need to look at your validation design again, to see how things 
work together.

is CRUD not more encompassing to persistent storage in general, than 
just SQL?