AltME groups: search

I plan to keep running Opera on a regular bases.  I think there are 
more features than I'm seeing so far, but in a nutshell:


-	Separate Universe: Having a "another" browser is a good way of 
keeping things sepeate.  For example I might use Opera for my Qtask 
test accounts, and for checking up on some "grouping" of sites, since 
Opera is good at opening multiple tabs at start up (although it should 
stagger them since this is one of the speed hits).


-	Cache: It seems to auto pull a page it decides is the last version. 
 I'm not sure how it decides this yet.  But if I figure it out, this 
is a cool feature.


-	Magic wand: Great feature.  It should have its OWN password.  In 
other words.  Andy, Billy, and Carry, all use the same computer. 
 There are a lot of families that do this. IT would be nice to group 
your log ins to the same sites (AB and C all have separate Yahoo 
account, and separate Amazon accounts).  So they can basically Log 
in first with Opera, then go to town.  Even better would be an online 
service for this.  Can't wait for Identity 2.0.


-	Overview:  Opera has this cool feature of showing you a 3x3 grid 
of thumbnails of you fav sites.  This is cool.  So cool I want to 
see if there is a plug in for FF for this too.-

the irc client is passable, the news reader is good, though i prefer 
using a separate rss reader.  exporting bookmarks and moving them 
to another computer is easy.

they should put a machine code monitor in there too, for computer 
science classes.

(but I don't like SVG... I really hate to open page with 3 SVG diagrams 
and my computer does nothing else than parse and draws these diagrams... 
the worst it is that the page is from W3C, so they should know that 
thay can use PNG for these images.. it would require less space to 
transfer and my computer could do better things while displaying 
such a page.

Long time.  I've never wanted to wait for this world to load (on 
this computer, which is in a loft).

no Reichard said to me that it's because i probably changed something 
on my computer

again, the reason is that it is impossible to come up with a general 
solution, and that this is a UI issue and NOT a language issue. unless 
you throw in AI, "language" for a computer cannot be the same as 
"language" for a human.

so, either we have AI, and the computer can figure out what a human 
means when reading the text the human wrote (but it'll have to ask 
questions most of the times! like when a human is talking to another 
human), or it can only be a specilized thing (eg. a date field that 
tries to be "smart" - but that's just a big set of rules)

In case you wondered about the origin of CTRL-ALT-DELETE - this is 
actually kinda funny http://www.flixxy.com/computer-history-ctrl-alt-del.htm

Computer Science - I just finished my third year as an undergrad. 
 Just one more to go - I don't plan on doing any more school after 
getting a B.S., at least not for a while.

not saying /lines has an issue, but I have loaded 700MB ascii files 
on a 1GB RAM computer... 150 is peanuts.  but I never use the /lines 
argument.

To Gregg,

I tried what you said. But there was a weird situation for the Windows 
Registry in my computer.

If I export these 5 HKEY_??? into 5 files, respectively, the sum 
of their size is 568 MB.

If I export all of them into 1 file. the file size is 316 MB, which 
is much smaller than 568 MB. I don't know why.

So the 5-file version of Registry-Diff in REBOL might use more memory 
if the GC doesn't work well.

yesss... I do more and more... computer sciences are very well explained 
on it.

This needs 'foreach-file from rebol.org

>> include %foreach-file.r
>> out: copy [] ff: func [file][repend out [file modified? file]]
>> foreach-file %./ :ff

== [%./!/basics_wide_desktop_computer_system.xml.ttx 21-Jun-2006/16:05+1:00 
%./!/basi
cs_wide_hard_disk_drive.xml.ttx 21-Jun-2006/8:...
>> sort/skip/compare out 2 2

== [%./ft/wavs/balloon.wav 23-Aug-2001/13:00+1:00 %./ft/wavs/down.wav 
23-Aug-2001/13:
00+1:00 %./ft/wavs/error.wav 23-Aug-2001/13:00...

non-expected result is worse than error

 exactly what I mean.   but to consider "what is expected" one has 
 to back away from "computer science" and think about the meaning 
 of most of the types.

(or, maybe you did, but used different computer)

(and I have got a benchmark there measuring overall speed using a 
couple of algorithms - they are derived from a Byte benchmark published 
in june 1988) - we are quite a bit faster than the C language was 
on an average computer back then :-p)

D seems to have garbage collection. Then it isn't for this project, 
I'm doing. I can't have the computer having hiccups, because the 
garbage collector does some cleanup.

btiffin and sqlab, it turns out that you both suggested the right 
thing. I must have a lot of ports being used already on my computer. 
Since you both thought this is what was wrong. I just kept on trying 
port numbers until finally...it worked! Thank you both very much! 
 Thanks to all of you that helped me, this day has ended pretty good! 
 Having endured the earlier aggravation, the good feels even better 
than usual.


So many ports being open does make me wonder why, however. That seems 
a little dangerous to me.

This is the client; put it in the folder containing the files you 
want to send.

rebol []
ip: request-text/title/default "IP Address: " "localhost"
port-num: request-text/title/default "Port Number: " "2006"
url: to-url rejoin ["tcp://" ip ":" port-num]
system/options/binary-base: 64  ; best binary encoding


print ["This program SENDS all files in its folder to receive-files-tcp." 
newline]
print "NOTE: receive-files-tcp must be running on the remote"
print ["computer before starting this program." newline]

files: read %. ; Note that 'files is a block of file names.
save %file-names files
server: open url

insert server compress as-binary read/binary %file-names ;send file 
names
file-block: []
foreach file files [
    if not find file "/" [insert file-block file] ;remove folders
]
files: file-block
foreach file files [
    insert server compress as-binary read/binary file
    print ["Successfully sent file: " file]
]
close server

ask [newline "The files transfer is complete. Press <Enter> to close."]

The design is to place the server in the folder on the computer to 
which you want to transfer files.  Place the client in the folder 
on the other computer containing the files you want to transfer.

Hi Gregg... yes it is a somewhat fundamental truism that code and 
data are one in the computer's own mind.  But separating this out 
and re-designing the computer to put them separate has shown benefit, 
even if it makes the model less simple.  For instance, chips where 
they actually have separate memory stores for code and data, which 
helps protect against things like buffer overflow exploits...!

Sorry Robert; I clown.  All computer related activity is fun, exciting 
and worthy of pursuit.   But Silly beats Gooey  :)

This might be a good example to illustrate my point in the other 
thread about randomness and the difference between digital computers 
and analog human brains.


In my example, I'm about to produce a 8 character random password. 
Each character can be one of 60 possible chars. So I set up a random/seed 
with 2 ** 32 = 4'294'967'296 possible start values, so I can at best 
produce the same amount, 4'294'967'296, different passwords with 
my routine. I can't change this by putting new random/seed in after 
each character found, because of the determinism in how a computer 
work. I would need to get input from the outside to produce more 
different 8 char passwords.


As a human, I can pick between 60 possible chars, and I have to do 
it 8 times, so I can make 60 ** 8 = 167'961'600'000'000 different 
passwords. That's a lot more than the computer. When we go to abstract 
thoughts with no clear limits (like 60 and 8), we are far superior 
to the digital computer.


It would be much easier to make an artificial intelligence, if our 
computers were analog.

So a way to get good random numbers over a long period of time, is 
to start such a routine (like the Mersenne twister) only once. The 
routine should then work with a high number of bits, the more the 
better and store the state, it has come to, to disk. Every time the 
computer is turned on, it can pick the state from disk, and start 
from where it left off. A password generator should use this routine 
and call it between each character in the password. If the routine 
has high enough resolution, it should be possible to produce 60 ** 
8 different passwords.

so if you pick each character separately you don't make 60 ** 8 different 
password?


If I, as a human, pick each char separately, I can make 60 ** 8 different 
passwords. If I make a digital computer do it based on 2 ** 32 integer 
pseudo-randomness, I can't! If you disagree, then show me. Doc seems 
to get it now, so I'm not completely alone with my insight.

Given a good algorithm (like Mersenne twister), and a true random 
generator for seeding (like hardware sensors) a computer could cover 
the 60**8 range. A humain brain, even given enough time, can't (I'm 
talking about generating random combinations, not using loops to 
generate every single combination). Even worse, humain results would 
show heterogeneous distribution of results, while computer will give 
a uniform distribution. So in that case, computers would give you 
better randomness than analog brains.

Yes, valid points, but it's not what I described at first.

If I should construct a random password given the rules, my output 
will land in a pool of 60 ** 8 possible passwords. I don't have to 
actual do it. The statement holds anyway.

If a computer should construct a random password given the rules 
(using any deterministic computer and any algorithm, but only with 
a 32-bit integer input, as in the case of REBOL random/seed), the 
output will land i a pool of 2 ** 32 possible passwords at most.


Of course we can change the frame and get a better result from the 
computer, but then we change the 'experiment'. In general, I would 
say the pool from human thoughts and decisions is infinite. It's 
not from a deterministic computer. So we need true random input and 
true analog computing with infinite states, if we want our computers 
to be as good as our brains.

Why restricting the computer to 32bits input only, when you can feed 
it with gigabits of inputs ? That's not a fair comparaison.

How can I iterate over a range of IP addresses (looking for a particular 
response) and "time out" the ones that "hang". I've got something 
like:

ip: 10.1.1.0
loop 100 [
	rc: read join http:// ip
	if find rc ... [...]
	ip: ip + 0.0.0.1
]


This works great on most devices (IP Phones, Printers, etc) but hangs 
when it hits a computer with Stealth mode. I've tried read/no-wait 
but that doesn't seem to make a differemce.

STill if a computer is in sleep mode it may not work (not sure).

how do you read files off a computer in your network?

i give you a script i used to profile the ideal size of the buffer 
used with read-io to have the best perfs.
On my computer the best size for the buffer is 8ko or 16ko.

REBOL []
f: open/seek/binary %large.dta

foreach len [64 128 256 1024 2048 4096 8192 10240 16384 32768 65536 
131072] [

	f/state/index: 0		;*** Problème quand on emploie read-io :
					;*** apparement c'est un bug, par défaut l'index est à 1
					;*** du coup, le premier octet n'est jamais lu
	

 buff: make binary! len + 1	;*** Encore un bizarerie, si le buffer 
 a exactement
					;*** la taille voulue, read-io lit un octet de moins
	n: 0
	recycle
	t: now/time/precise

 while [0 < read-io f buff len] [n: n + 1 clear buff f/state/index: 
 f/state/index + len]
	print [len tab v: now/time/precise - t tab v / n tab n]
]

close f
halt

you must have a special computer, it's not quiet logical and i have 
opposite results on my computer

hm, I see there is system/words but I didn't manage to really see 
what's in because if I probe it it blocks my computer , too many 
words probably..

A gave the link because the one on my computer actually has the == 
symbol  instead.

anton: its always worked for me... as long as the computer shifts 
the DST correctly... which it doesn't by default, unless you have 
the kb installed.

I had the problem this week end... I had to install the latest kb 
update ... cause my computer was NOT switching the DST   :-(

Is there a way to adjust computer time from rebol?

Why is the time zone displayed by rebol 'now not changed when I change 
the time zone on my computer in date and time properties?

No matter what I change the rime zone to on the computer I get a 
rebol time with -4:00

Got it..thanks Graham...


Here are three lines that adjust the time zone and time of the local 
computer after checking time with a server with a daytime server 
running:


call "RunDLL32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL timedate.cpl,,/Z Eastern 
Standard Time"
a: to-date read daytime://myserver.com b: a/time
call rejoin ["time " b]

In Windows you want virtual memory to be turned on, but you can set 
it to not use a swap file if you like, without touching the registry. 
Virtual memory is used to support memory-mapped files and speeds 
program loading and use (which is done with memory-mapping). The 
computer I am on right now has virtual memory and no swap file since 
it has an SSD, and it runs fine.

However, I tend to not get out-of-memory errors on this computer, 
which has 1GB of RAM and no swap file. This is because I am careful 
about which programs I use (no IE, no Firefox).

(ping pong above can run in the same rebol process, multiple on same 
computer or on different computers (it's just the matter of addreses-- 
which are not well thought out yet)

Before then (20+ years ago) I had thought about something similar, 
but had no computer development tools then.

and if you want to do for example efficient message passing concur. 
it's also cruicial to have this sort of data.. because message is 
always a copy .. if you are using message passing for distr. compuring 
- only between computers then you have to copy anyway so it's no 
penalty .. but if you use message passing for concurrency /paralel 
execution on one computer then copying data for messages each time 
will have a high penalty , but it wouldn't with ropes for example

Thanks Graham. User error on my part. I can "read" now. I was wondering 
though if I have just the computer name and not a folder name I get 
an error. In other words, list-dir to-rebol-file "\\xyz\myfolder" 
is OK but not list-dir to-rebol-file "\\xyz\" doesn't.

anyone know of a way to get a persistent value based on someone's 
computer... the longer the string the better... (on windows)

this is with a /command license, so any accessible rebol feature 
is usable.

something like:
    -System install serial number
    -Disk serial number
    -CPU id


I want to generate an encryption key which isn't stored as part of 
the code.  It just makes it a bit more complicated to reverse engineer 
the stored password if the encryption key is different for all installations.

but that is true of all passwords on a computer even login passwds.

I'm not addressing "you" and M$ does not care about Linux.  But what 
they did do was make a system that allows multiple people to use 
the same computer and keep their date apart.  It is wrong, and badly 
done, but the "correct" way to do it for thier system.



As to Carl allowing other ways to do it, that is the real question 
I assume you are asking.

What could cause font script(encoding) change from f.ex. baltics 
to western  when downloading and running scripts on other computer.

In this case I am getting language specific symbols displayed like 
the font encoding scipt is Western while I need Baltics.

At the same time I had no problem, when I called the same layout 
script in office.
Problem appears when I am at home connected to office via VPN.
Rebol view console font encoding script is set to Baltics.

No Volker, you can't do that !  What if you only want to restart 
the remote computer for instance ? :-)

I was thinking about shared apps. rebooting the computer would be 
more complicated.Then both computers would need to rebootin sync. 
Is that called dual boot? *gg* ;)

It's not going any far (if I know where I am going), since I am stuck 
in IME. There are some decisions to make. I've just started to think 
that maybe the whole IME thing is a stupid idea. Every morning, I 
wake up and turn on the computer, hoping that the REBOL 3.0 alpha 
is out and end my misery. "Unicode support is not released today. 
Well, it could be tomorrow. Everything is gonna be different tomorrow." 
Since 5 years ago, I keep telling myself the same thing.

The templates are stored on the users local computer and essentially 
build sales documents based on basic user input.

I remember seeing the GUI/Program builder for the NeXT computer, 
when it first came out. That seems awesome. You specified, what type 
of application, you needed to build, and voila you've got the sceleton 
with menues and everything. Maybe it's something like that, you're 
after, Henrik.

One aspect of the new "reality" is that your computer always has 
a web browser running, it has to.  So any comparison of REBOL and 
a web browser you have to do is to run REBOL * in addition to* the 
browser.  Not fair, just true.  Performance-wise, how quickly the 
app starts up or not doesn't matter anymore... you've paid the startup 
cost for Firefox (or whatever), you've got the code pages in, they're 
there you have to live with it.

This is my attempt at computer generated medical notes 
http://synapse-movies.s3.amazonaws.com/Synapse-chained-macros.wmv

Be sure to not forward the remote control port (default 6883) beyond 
the firewall though, or other people can make your computer download 
stuff.

transferring to the computer; recording is not that wrong to indicate 
that and it was shorter :P

I guess you should compare Wolfram Alpha to Spock in the beginning 
of the fourth Star Trek movie, where he's being tested by a computer. 
"How do you feel?" :-)

The computer that Scotty uses to show transparent aluminum was originally 
going to be an Amiga, but Commodore would only provide a computer 
if they bought it. Apple was willing to loan them the Mac.
 <--- Commodore marketing in action.

Opera Unite: a Web server on the Web browser


With Opera 10, we are introducing a new technology called Opera Unite, 
radically extending what you are able to do online. Opera Unite harnesses 
the power of today's fast connections and hardware, allowing all 
of us to help define the future landscape of the Web, one computer 
at a time. Read about how Opera Unite is going to change the way 
we interact on the Web on labs.opera.com.

About two months ago I stumbled upon Tonido  and the Tonido plug 
computer. I ordered a Tonido but then canceled the order because 
the application software supplied was not multi-user. I have recently 
ordered the Pogoplug which does appear to allow multiple users. Check 
it out.

mental faculties reach a peak in one's early 20s

I don't think, that's true either. I can do many things better and 
faster now, than 20 years ago, when I was in my early 20ies. I can 
program a lot faster and with fewer errors now than back then. Now 
and then I try a computer game on my Amiga, that I haven't touched 
in 20 years. I can finish games now, I couldn't figure out back then. 
My reactions might be a bit slower now, even if I'm not really sure 
about that either. But I solve the puzzles better now. Many years 
of practise has also made me a better piano player now, than 20 years 
ago.


I don't know, where that saying come from, but I can't see it being 
true.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18272-google-demonstrates-quantum-computer-image-search.html

Another platform to port R3 to.

So, plug-computer is really cool (and I remember that I wondered 
for what they are worth it...)

Why any "device" is treated differenly just confused me.  Why can't 
I drag a file from my desktop to a webpage, and if that page is set 
up to handle it, allow it to uploadload the file in the background?


Why can't  I just direct outlput of anything on my computer ot a 
path, a path that could be a website?

Why can't I simply PIPE things from one place to another?  


I get the security concerns, but this can be handled with a requester.

I'm tired of the silliness...

Just to make sure we are all clear here... I'm using no humour.


I believe Pekr to have asked me about the link I posted to the virus 
called "Security Tool".

By asking me if it is a "prohibited business practice" he is implying 
it is a business in the first place.
I see no evidence this is a real product, or a business.


In any case, let's pretend that it is a real product, now let's pretend 
(and this does not require much of a stretch) that it gets onto your 
doctor's computer, who is trying to look up an emergency peice of 
data.


This softtware actually PREVENTS other software from running on your 
computer.


If we prove malice, which is not hard to do here, then ALL issues 
are open.  It is not going to happen, but I would fight for this 
to be a felony, and put them in prison:

- Obstruciton of justive
- Distrubing the piece
- You can tack on to anything "With teh intent to do harm"

etc.

who don't remember the situation where do you wish having direct 
access to a virus hacker's face 
in the moment you are cleaning up your computer. 

but what I mean with my post was not humor also, it was about relation. 
for a very short moment your 

words (hunted/war) remind me a to another person using this 'size 
of reality building symbols' very 

strongly with a current result many people don't like. it is also 
significant to see how words

going into a kind of inflation and devaluating quickly by it's unrelational 
usage supported by the media. 
therefore the reference to the media who is responible for this.

you do have to speak "computer" well   ;-)

This patent stuff really freaked me out at first but there seem to 
be ways to circumenvent it until (hopefully) the government kicks 
in and solves this mess. The BGH said software patents apply as soon 
as your software's design is influenced by the device it runs on, 
so if your software targets a virtual machine like Java it should 
be okay because then patents don't apply because no device influenced 
your software, you wrote it to run on software (the VM), not on a 
hardware device. That it runs on hardware is a mere coincidence but 
didn't influence you while writing the software. Could be the BGH 
will just revise their comment on this of course to also include 
virtual machines. Cross platform software could be okay too with 
this argumentation as long as you only write features that work on 
more than one device. So no iPhone specific stuff for example, but 
if the app runs without modification on an iPad, the iPhone and an 
iPod Touch it should be okay again, those are three completely different 
devices (computer, cell phone, music player) so you should be able 
to argue that you weren't influenced by them at all. You would argue 
instead that you were influenced by Cocoa Touch, which is software 
and not a device, so patents don't apply. This would also mean REBOL 
apps are okay, since your software is made to run in the REBOL interpreter 
and not on any specific device (unless you put some Mac specific 
calls in there but then you could argue you targeted the operating 
system which is software and not a device). If you can really get 
away with this kind of argumentation is a big question of course. 
The judge can decide on a whim if you're guilty or not, all the laws 
are open to interpretation for him.


I read one comment on this that gives me some hope. The german government 
uses a lot of Linux and they spent a lot of money to train their 
workers to use Linux. With this decision by the BGH, Linux is suddenly 
patent hell, so it's in the government's best interest to kick in. 
Sadly, they could just say "patents don't apply to the government" 
and be done with it.

it does not seem powerful enough to replacy typing... but, it would 
be interesting to have that device on while you type / user the mouse 
and let the computer "learn" and see how much it can predict. if 
you also process what's coming from the camera and microphone maybe 
we can get something useful. probably needs much faster computers 
to do all that though.

I don't get why they exclude "computers" from the piracy tax. Most 
pirates use computers running Windows, same as most computer users.

But the stupidity lies in  what they think is a computer is. 
- An engine which runs windows

I'm an old Commodore user. My first computer was a VIC-20. Learned 
BASIC on the VIC. Fun times.

Raspberry Pi computer:

	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ7N4rycsy4
	http://www.raspberrypi.org/

It is designed to plug into a TV through HDMI, not USB. More likely 
it is because this platform is apparently designed for educational 
use, and is programmed by plugging it into another computer as a 
USB device. At runtime it changes the USB port to host mode, though 
not the USB plug. Perhaps they expect it to spend more time being 
programmed than used.

Sometimes you just want to type out what you want the computer to 
do......

> Tag all photos taken in Maui with "Maui"

could this be the project Carl is working on !? it is an embedded 
linux, its also more TV than computer since it supports only TV outputs. 
 Carl's low memory using Amiga Exec Background would make him a prime 
candidate for working on this project which has to boot Linux and 
allow HD decoding within only 128 MB (os+gpu Shared) RAM .

India $46 tablet released http://news.yahoo.com/india-launch-45-tablet-computer-211428621.html

Pekr;  Yep RT has promised things...but (and this is where being 
out of the computer

biz for seven years may be of benefit to me) it seems things are 
really starting to
accelerate.

And I don't mean too smart in a bad way.  The computer IQ in this 
forum is off the scale

java is extremely slow at gui...an application I used which used 
their layout engine and graphics would take 2 second on my computer 
when resizing the applicaiton.  just for fun, I built the same layout 
in glayout (VID) and it would resize in .1 seconds (on the same computer).

so java really sucks at GUIs.

Pekr;  Re r1 to r2.  I was a dropout from the computer biz from 1999 
till about January this year, so I was watching from a purely curiosity 
perspective, no vested interest.  Now the interest is much higher 
and far more vested.  :)  In that regard I'm still new.

great ... that was form of computer communism

I really don't undersant why there is so many people crying... I 
have Uniserve runing for several months without problems, parsing 
about 50 pages two times per day to provide culture informations 
in the city I live, I use Rebol to build PHP sites, Flash apps, as 
a proxy server as, a clasic system console and for so many every 
day scripting and I really cannot imagine I would use something else 
than Rebol for such a job. And if you still think that you cannot 
do anything in R2 and have to wait for R3 to start, you can take 
a look for other technology. With computer languages it's same like 
with normal languages - the more languages you know, the better you 
are.

I said a long time ago that computer languages don't age like the 
software technologies built upon them. still think I'm right. :-)

and i have heart beat and 1000 cows with 70 fps on my computer that's 
great would be even greater If gob could get a transparent background 
^^

yes ... that's SLOW  ... and on my computer that's not so slow ...

k but rally that's slower than on my computer  ...

your application is running around 3  times slower than on my computer 
(I dream of a quad core phenom  based computer ...)

ubuntu will save us all dl live-cd iso brun iso restart computer 
with the new CD in it and VOILA :P

hum but it's fast on my computer and that's a pre-alpha double dash 
++ X 2008 version  (that's way there is the probes) If I go enough 
far in the process obviously I will do a clean share. That's just 
to show  wich direction it takes and puts some animation here while 
we are pending for news from R3 ^^. I plan even to declinate it to 
wrok with rebGUI and do a synntaxe colored widget wich could be used 
for an IDE for example

security for plugin should be the same as for any fileacess no ? 
 and once again you are not supposed to use software you didn't documented 
before on it. I think there is more risk to damage you computer and 
data by simply surfing the net with IE 7  than using rebol.

now in day to damge your computer you just need to log it to internet 
without firewall and anti-virus no even need to do anything your 
computer will be infected straight by a tons of worms

The browser as the launch platform for applications has always been 
an interesting idea. The fundamental problem of the sheer complexity 
of it can be solved with R3. If done right, it can completely wipe 
the floor with browsers and AJAX. I think the problem is that we 
haven't been speaking in a language that people can understand, such 
as "browser", "web2.0" and "webserver", but instead "dialects", "VID", 
"Viewtop" and "X Internet" and people go "huh?".

Some things I believe are needed to do this right:


- Browser form factor. People are used to browsers, not Viewtops. 
What's always the first thing a complete newbie computer user uses, 
when wanting to do anything on the internet? A webbrowser. I don't 
want a desktop inside my desktop. There are tens of solutions for 
such things and they are almost all forgotten. Carl is doing the 
REBOL browser. When you fire up R3, you will get what looks like 
a webbrowser and acts like one. The concept has to work equally well 
for people like us, as well as 5-year-olds and 95-year-olds.


- Do apps that are similar to webapps, like GMail. That's a quick 
way to compare. Don't you think a 50k GMail look-a-like inside a 
REBOL browser running at native speeds would be _slightly_ impressive? 
Remember to say that you can serve 5 times more users with the same 
bandwidth. REBOL can help make raw numbers look better without much 
effort. Google would have to use it as a content platform. They have 
no other choice. :-) Chrome? What's that?


- Plugins suddenly are very flexible. You don't have plugins as in 
Firefox, but helper scripts that can enhance/change your browsing 
experience. 15k full screen document reader that prettifies plain 
text files? Sure thing. Blog posts presented in that would be much 
nicer to read. Out goes the PDF reader.


- Do apps that are completely out of the league of AJAX, such as 
multithreaded P2P systems. In fact, why not build P2P capabilities 
right in? Have different instances of the browser allow users to 
connect and chat, when they are visiting the same "Rebsite". It's 
sort of like going into a physical store and chatting with the other 
customers and you decide to exchange business cards. Initial contact 
without needing email. Do the same thing with chat support for an 
article that you bought at that  "rebsite". Current websites are 
almost completely anonymous. You don't feel you are entering a live 
community. Coded in REBOL/Services.


- Webpages are now REBOL scripts. In R3, scripts can be closed and 
encrypted, so you can't read the source and you can sell scripts 
and have them signed. The best you can do right now is some kind 
of code obfuscation.

- Windows, MacOSX and Linux version.


- "A webbrowser that directly supports OpenGL without obscure/limited 
3rd party plugins." Say that again in your head.


- It's very important that the public get to see that creating REBOL 
scripts for the browser is very similar to creating plain HTML pages. 
REBOL scripts can be served off a plain webserver. All the infrastructure 
is already there. Or how about serving scripts from the browser itself? 
AltME can both be a client and a server. It's that P2P thing again.

- Browser would run wherever R3 runs.


- Market it as Web 4.0. Market it as a direct competition to current 
webbrowsing.


- Browser would be a 500-600 kb downloadable exe that starts immediately 
without installation. From deciding to get it, to be using it to 
browse "Rebpages", it should not take more than 30-45 seconds.

- We need AltME in that browser (Altissimo?) as well as QTask.

For developers:


- It's easy to create an HTML file in notepad and display it in your 
favourite browser. It's going to be equally easy to create a REBOL 
script in notepad and see it running in your REBOL browser. A 5-year-old 
who has just learned to type, should be able to create a script and 
display it.

- One language for everything.


- Everything is free. You can start out with notepad. The barrier 
for creating content is about as low as it can get.


- You wanna code slow web 2.0 apps or fast web 4.0 apps? Hard choice, 
I know.

you can always feel a program is not ended but can a program handle 
all the functionalities of now in day computer.

wow, now you are focusing on multitasking.. that is a big core thing 
... if there will be shared memory model we can probably build various 
other abstractions on top of it (I did observe some backslash vs 
pure message passing / actors lately also -- especially for concurrency 
on the same computer / cpu ) ..  this is interesting thinking IMHO 
http://clojure.org/state"Message Passing and Actors" under "I chose 
not to use the Erlang-style actor model for same-process state management 
in Clojure for several reasons:"