AltME groups: search

yes.  I often create private groups to chat with people so its not 
mind-bogling slow.

It'd be interesting to know the size of Graham's private messages 
file  -- 19.set in his case.  {Andreas, yours would be 107.set]

The files should be in altme/worlds/rebol3/chat

But beware that Windows may be virtualising the files, so the latest 
copy may be well hidden elsewhere,

Doesn't the speed also have to do with the message limit per chat 
settings? I've decreased mine and  it's much faster. Though I do 
wonder how accurate that setting is or what it really measures. I 
set mine to a higher number after a search and warning that it needs 
to be set higher. I've thought that there's no way there could be 
that many messages (several 1000's) in that one topic.

My guess is that it's the server that takes time to append the message 
in the chat file.

Dunno if it does a simple append to the file but if it needs to load 
it in memory, append the block, then write it down to disk, it could 
explain why bigger chat files take longer to update !!

Looking at my Altme file activity (Filemon) when I post a message 
:

- Nothing happens until the server has done its job and send back 
the new message for the corresponding group/user.

- Then I see that the corresponding chat file is wrote entirely by 
block of 4096B !

- Then the state file (chatMYALTMEID) is updated (wrote by chunk 
of 4096B).

[I'm just guessing here] There are at least three different data 
sets to update when I send a private message to (say) Graham:
-1- my chat local *.set file

-2- whatever data sets are held on the server to record the message 
(I have no idea what these are)
-3- Graham's local *.set file


The first two could contribute to perceived slowness in sending; 
the third to any apparent slowness in updating/downloading messages.


Append/lines to a 4.5 meg file does not take long on my machine (not 
does read/lines) so I'm primed to suspect the problem is on the server.


What would be interesting to know is if the grayness I see when sending 
a message ends when:
-a- the server acknowledges receipt; or
-b- when the server has finished committing all its updates.


If it is -b-, then moving the server response to be -a- could create 
a significant perceived increase in responsiveness.

4:57:00.5195412 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OpenIf, Options: 
Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory File, 
Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Opened

4:57:00.5198317 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:00.5200764 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/12/2010 1:20:09 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 296, EndOfFile: 292, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x1000000002fd2, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:00.5209299 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryStandardInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	SUCCESS	AllocationSize: 
296, EndOfFile: 292, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: False, Directory: 
False

4:57:00.5211763 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	SUCCESS	Offset: 
292, Length: 4

4:57:00.5215235 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.chg	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5243792 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:00.5246281 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:00.5248293 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5248513 PM	altme.exe	1492	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5256763 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:00.5259221 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/12/2010 1:20:09 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x1000000002fd3, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:00.5263666 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5267764 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	FAST 
IO DISALLOWED	Offset: 4,096, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5270125 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
4,096, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5277232 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
8,192, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5280137 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
12,288, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5282825 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	FAST 
IO DISALLOWED	Offset: 16,384, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5285077 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
16,384, Length: 4,096

4:57:00.5288736 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
20,480, Length: 3,470

4:57:00.5291306 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5292988 PM	altme.exe	1492	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5299280 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OpenIf, Options: 
Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory File, 
Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Opened

4:57:00.5301501 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:00.5303400 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/12/2010 1:19:53 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:55:35 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 77,824, EndOfFile: 74,727, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x1000000002e83, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:00.5305657 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryStandardInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	SUCCESS	AllocationSize: 
77,824, EndOfFile: 74,727, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: False, 
Directory: False

4:57:00.5307507 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	SUCCESS	Offset: 
74,727, Length: 4

4:57:00.5317625 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.chg	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5355275 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:00.5357293 PM	altme.exe	1492	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:00.5358812 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5359027 PM	altme.exe	1492	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5366269 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:00.5368179 PM	altme.exe	1492	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/12/2010 1:19:53 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:00 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x300000000002e84, EaSize: 
0, Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:00.5371021 PM	altme.exe	1492	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 3,544

4:57:00.5374496 PM	altme.exe	1492	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:00.5375367 PM	altme.exe	1492	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\servers\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5427517 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:04.5429673 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:04.5431218 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5431436 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5438713 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:04.5440655 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/21/2010 8:17:46 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x50000000026e1, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:04.5443479 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 3,298

4:57:04.5452260 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5453489 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\registry.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5535307 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:04.5537371 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:04.5538911 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5539140 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5545705 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 2/12/2010 
10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: True, 
VolumeLabel: 

4:57:04.5547627 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/21/2010 8:17:46 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x100000000da8a, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:04.5550102 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 184

4:57:04.5552809 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5553641 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\state	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5712081 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:04.5714824 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:04.5716849 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5717076 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5725515 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:04.5727921 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/21/2010 8:18:22 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x100000000dac0, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:04.5732424 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5736452 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	FAST 
IO DISALLOWED	Offset: 4,096, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5738807 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
4,096, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5742406 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
8,192, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5745250 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
12,288, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5747951 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	FAST 
IO DISALLOWED	Offset: 16,384, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5750261 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
16,384, Length: 4,096

4:57:04.5753840 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	Offset: 
20,480, Length: 3,467

4:57:04.5756441 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5761567 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\18.set	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5788099 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Disposition: OverwriteIf, 
Options: Sequential Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory 
File, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, AllocationSize: 0, OpenResult: 
Overwritten

4:57:04.5790912 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: Directory, Synchronous 
IO Non-Alert, Open For Backup, Attributes: N, ShareMode: Read, Write, 
AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:04.5792937 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5793150 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5801410 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryInformationVolume	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	SUCCESS	VolumeCreationTime: 
2/12/2010 10:37:05 AM, VolumeSerialNumber: 000E-5EC7, SupportsObjects: 
True, VolumeLabel: 

4:57:04.5803791 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryAllInformationFile	C:\Program 
Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	BUFFER OVERFLOW	CreationTime: 
2/21/2010 8:18:23 PM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, LastWriteTime: 
9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, ChangeTime: 9/25/2010 4:57:04 PM, FileAttributes: 
A, AllocationSize: 0, EndOfFile: 0, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: 
False, Directory: False, IndexNumber: 0x100000000dadf, EaSize: 0, 
Access: Generic Write, Read Attributes, Position: 0, Mode: Sequential 
Access, Synchronous IO Non-Alert, AlignmentRequirement: Word

4:57:04.5807059 PM	altme.exe	12200	WriteFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	SUCCESS	Offset: 
0, Length: 2,206

4:57:04.5810769 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.5811630 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\nakakihara\chat\chat4	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.6485821 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryOpen	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	CreationTime: 
3/31/2003 5:00:00 AM, LastAccessTime: 9/25/2010 4:56:24 PM, LastWriteTime: 
8/4/2004 12:56:43 AM, ChangeTime: 2/13/2010 12:50:11 AM, AllocationSize: 
159,744, EndOfFile: 159,232, FileAttributes: A

4:57:04.6488903 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFile	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	Desired 
Access: Execute/Traverse, Synchronize, Disposition: Open, Options: 
Synchronous IO Non-Alert, Non-Directory File, Attributes: n/a, ShareMode: 
Read, Delete, AllocationSize: n/a, OpenResult: Opened

4:57:04.6493828 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFileMapping	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	SyncType: 
SyncTypeCreateSection, PageProtection: PAGE_EXECUTE

4:57:04.6494085 PM	altme.exe	12200	QueryStandardInformationFile	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	AllocationSize: 
159,744, EndOfFile: 159,232, NumberOfLinks: 1, DeletePending: False, 
Directory: False

4:57:04.6494267 PM	altme.exe	12200	FASTIO_RELEASE_FOR_SECTION_SYNCHRONIZATION	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.6494462 PM	altme.exe	12200	CreateFileMapping	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	SyncType: 
SyncTypeOther

4:57:04.6494602 PM	altme.exe	12200	FASTIO_RELEASE_FOR_SECTION_SYNCHRONIZATION	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.6496560 PM	altme.exe	12200	CloseFile	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS	

4:57:04.6496803 PM	altme.exe	12200	IRP_MJ_CLOSE	C:\WINDOWS\system32\msimtf.dll	SUCCESS

maybe use Git as the basis for a new chat system

the R3 chat architecture is VERY nice... it just needs a GUI client.

NetLImiter won't show stats for me right now, so I don't know what 
AltMe does in that regard. I also can't just the R3 chat architecture, 
but the CLI for it isn't terribly intuitive to me.

I love AltMe, but it has things that annoy me as well. Since we don't 
know exactly why it doesn't scale (yes, we can guess), I don't think 
just making the back end a DB is a guaranteed fix, or perhaps even 
that simple. And I don't think it will happen. I fear the R3 chat/rebdev/??? 
model will scale even worse than AltMe as I think the msg db is a 
single file and still a naive implementation designed for small-scale 
use.


Like Graham, I've thought that something like Git--a system designed 
for distributed, differenced, repositories of information--might 
be used. I haven't seen it done however.

What ar our options?

1) Live with AltMe, and roll worlds when they get too slow.
2) Find an alternative.
3) Implement our own.

Is #1 painful enough to drive us to #2 or #3?

actually the r3 chat system *client* is still pretty simple... but 
the way messages are managed via the server seems to be much more 
flexible.  every msg and file is its own single item.  they are downloaded 
as items, not as groups of items.


so actually, all that needs to be done to make r3 chat scale is to 
improve how it stores its messages on disk and on RAM.   


the fact that the server supports moderation, threads, user levels, 
files, and things like item re-classification is very nice.


really, all it needs is a gui client.... that's If the server is 
able to respond quickly to requests.

at least my PM chat is now really quick  ;-)

My personal chat file was reset too (size changed from 1MB to 1KB). 
Luckily I also backed it up 10 days ago, after reading the reports 
here.

Sorry, %worlds/rebol3/chat/19.set

you must chat a lot ;)

Moving to chat.

Accepting Gregg's response as a second, for a call to end voting; 
 I'd like to motion that we tally up the votes as per the user.r 
Chat example.  Thanks to all participants, and best of luck to our 
candidates.

I'd like to propose a round table vote of acceptance of the voting 
code and procedures posted to user.r Chat, by Sunanda. A negative 
outcome would hopefully be followed by new proposals and discussion.

I'd like to propose we accept Sunanda's user.r chat REBOL voting 
code and method.  If no one raises issue, it will be deemed official 
on Dec 15th, and instructions for participation posted.  Voting is 
scheduled to end with 2010, Greenwich Mean Time.

I client for R2, to be accessed through a CHAT mezzanine in R2.

graham I've commented it in DB chat , to be honest I thin Carl would 
do it better but I cannot wait more

R3 may go beta before any additional schemes are added - "enough" 
is a matter of opinion, and for core functionality, HTTP is enough 
(only needed for CHAT and UPGRADE). HTTP should be improved before 
beta though.

(If you peek at worlds/rebol/chat/453.set you'll notice it's over 
20'000 messages that must be loaded into memory on server and every 
client.)

By comparison, the RebDev server (R3 Chat backend) is using about 
9MB.  IOS is using 12MB.

we need to get back to proper R3 releases though. You know, some 
few months ago, there was something like 80 tickets implemented per 
month. Now R3 development is a bit halted. It is important to finish 
some features, before jumping to different tasks. The most important 
right now is to enhance extensions and finish Host Kit (especially 
move View to command! interface), so that ppl can continue with their 
contributions. But that is not happening. I can see even some questions 
towards Extension usability to not being answered on R3 Chat. We 
should really refocus ....

Graham: I was replying to discussion above about the need to move 
R3 chat to DB like SQLite or MySQL versus REBOL data files

BTW: R3-CC link is hard to find. And do I have an account from either 
R3-Chat or AltMe? Or do I need to get an extra one?

From R3 chat it sounds like Graham can edit, but I wonder if he means 
the general pages or just the manual.

Henrik - maybe ppl too want to choose, what they work on? :-) E.g. 
Graham started the work on Schemes. He really SHOULD (and was supposed 
to be) supported. Nothin happened. Robert throwed some Extension 
related questions to R3 Chat - no answers too ...

A number of us said that R3 chat was a waste of resources ... and 
... now, barely anyone uses it.

Graham, so should we shut down the open R3 chat, which you and I 
can fix bugs in and use the AltME that people don't like because 
it's closed source?

Might as well shut down R3 chat as Carl isn't using it .. and that 
was supposed to be his communication channel

R3 chat...

Anyway I was able to edit this page http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/functions/read.html

because my r3 chat rating was 50

DocBase is the wiki; DevBase is accessed through chat.

I think I'm going to refer to them from now on as, chat and wiki 
...!

I only make the distinction between chat and DevBase for technical 
reasons.

>> chat
Fetching chat...
Cannot load chat from web.

chat / com / net -- all working from where I am.

hmm... is it possible to remove messages in R3 chat? I saw Ladislav 
posting this header:


> 6843   Re #6839: round/half-ceiling -$100.5000000    26 ladislav 
18m ago  

But now it's gone from my chat view.

Worth noting too perhaps: after trying the test three times, unsetting 
'c and 'm and recycling .... R3 got stuck trying to get into 'chat 

Possibly some screwed up garbage collection when recycling large 
elements? The failure is repeatable.

R3 chat seems to be so much slower these days ...

and a chat message .. tcp outages on rebo.net

Is r3 chat working?  I can't login

posted feedback that r3 chat is now down for 2 days

Does r3 chat actually have a built in revision system?

that might be in the r3-alpha world or somewhere in r3 chat.

I am encountering a crash, dunno if easily traceable. I start R3, 
type-in "chat". Then I quit the chat by "q", then I type "demo" .... 
and R3 crashes ...

Why would chat kill the demo ... unless http is modified or something?

I tried the chat then demo trick under linux and Rebol crashed with 
a segmentation fault. Normally, the demo gives a script error. I 
also tried on Mac OS X but that was okay - the demo gave a script 
error.

I was wondering why some messages don't show up on chat.  Eg. #6993

Petr, Graham, have you checked the >>CHAT >>Q >>DEMO problem after 
Carl has restored the chat server to an up-to-date version? That 
may be related? The sequence still works here.

Weird, can't find it. I remember someone reporting it - must have 
been in chat. Report it.

These conversations in AltME are fun, but unless they are in blog 
comments, chat or CureCode they have no effect.

A98 released - see R3 Chat ...

BTW, I wanted to edit the TO-BINARY function description in R3 documentation 
to explain the "network bit order", but did not succeed; while I 
edited some parts of the documentation, now I am unable to log in, 
and have no idea why (posted a private MSG to Carl in R3 chat, but 
he may have missed the message?)

Updated the practical tests to explicitly test for the missing fixes 
(except #1552). Go to R3 chat for the link to the build.

there is no A98, just A97 core, the link is in R3 Chat ...

(From chat #7216) Some tests pass, others fail. It's a good start.

- The tests in the example code of bug#1549 pass (Ladislav's philosophicals)

- The practical tests don't. In particular, bug#447, bug#1528 (for 
closures), bug#1529 and bug#1552 are still problematic.

- We need a SELFLESS? function (or whatever it should be called) 
to resolve the main downside of the #1549 approach, and we need it 
for the a98 release.

Here are the practical tests that need to pass:

; Objects
ob: object []
print same? ob do bind [self] ob
print same? ob do in ob [self]

; Functions
ob: object [f: func [/x] [do bind/copy [self] 'x]]
print same? ob ob/f
; Can't use the context after the function returns.
; This is not a side effect of Ladislav's proposal.

; Functions with a 'self parameter (#1528)
ob: object [f: func [/self] [do bind/copy [self] 'self]]
print not same? ob ob/f

; Closures (#447)
ob: do closure [x] [bind? 'x] 1
print 1 = ob/x
print not same? ob do bind [self] ob
print not same? ob do in ob [self]

; Closures with a 'self parameter (#1528)
ob: do attempt [closure [self] [bind? 'self]] 1
print 1 = attempt [ob/self]
print not same? ob do bind [self] ob
print not same? ob do in ob [self]

; Closures shouldn't bind 'self unless it is a parameter (#447)
print same? self do closure [x] [self] 1
print not same? self do attempt [closure [self] [self]] 1

; Loops (#1529)
ob: repeat x 1 [bind? 'x]
print 1 = ob/x
print not same? ob do bind [self] ob
print not same? ob do in ob [self]

; Loops with a 'self variable (#1529)
ob: repeat self 1 [bind? 'self]
print 1 = attempt [ob/self]
print not same? ob do bind [self] ob
print not same? ob do in ob [self]

; Loops shouldn't bind 'self unless it's a variable (#1529)
print same? self repeat x 1 [self]
print not same? self repeat self 1 [self]


See also #1552: There needs to be a way to distinguish selfless contexts 
from selfish contexts at runtime (a SELFLESS? function), and selfless 
contexts need to MOLD into DOable syntax (perhaps a different datatype, 
or a flag).

BTW, although I had the access to the R3 docs, and having edited 
some parts (Random e.g.), now I cannot log in. Even though I posted 
Carl a msg in R3 chat, the situation looks unchanged, so I cannot 
edit the TO-BINARY to finish the #1539

A99 almost ready (reported by Carl on R3 Chat)

Carl's question on R3 Chat:

#7301: post from Carl 36m ago:
FOR can include tail. Do we want to keep that behavior?

>> for a b: "abc" tail b 1 [probe a]
abc
bc
c



This happens because FOR is inclusive on its END value. (Remind me 
if we've talked about this before.)

Claude, the R2 mezzanine source, including PARSE-XML, is in DevBase 
(aka R3 chat). It shouldn't be too difficult to adapt it to R3, for 
a library module. It would probably be a bad idea to include it in 
R3 as mezzanine though: History has shown that most people don't 
need to parse XML, and the ones who do usually need to parse XML 
differently from how PARSE-XML does so, and differently from each 
other as well. This kind of situation is what the module system and 
community libraries are for :)

he can read the chat thru a browser .. no need to fire up r3

Can we? Does R3 chat have an API? I mean - there are commands, but 
can we script it? Dunno how ...

http://www.rebol.com/r3/chat.r

Should be able to modify chat to autologin, check for new messages 
and then quit.

...which you do through CureCode, and messages in R3 chat.

I know some people got a hold of it a while back - is it just a matter 
of asking? Actually (I posted about this in chat), I need to do callbacks 
into REBOL so if that's not working yet, I'm out of luck. This is 
in regards to creating an external lexer for the Scintilla based 
editors out there.

As I mentioned in chat, I'm thinking of implementing an external 
REBOL lexer for the Scintilla based editors. I was thinking that 
one way it could work is if the external lexer was a REBOL extension, 
but thinking about it again, maybe the whole callback thing could 
be avoided by having a custom host that is built as a dll, with the 
additional functions added to satisfy the Scintilla external lexer 
interface. Max, BrianH, do you know if it would be possible to compile 
the host as a dynamic library?

trick is to find a way to parse just a subset... you might want to 
chat with steeve and shadwolf, their rebol editor was pretty responsive 
even with big files, so I guess they have an optimisation that lets 
them just token what is visible, with some form of caching for before 
and after pages of data.

the only thing I can complain about is that Carl has been VERY silent 
for a month, even on R3 chat.

Cool. So set up a discussion for the database semantic/dialect model. 
I think one of those DocBase wiki discussions would work for this, 
with chat in the DB Chat group here.

Pekr, I was just saying that all R3 development is either practically 
invisible, or, perhaps is just not happening.  r3 chat is also dead.

In fact, I suggested SINGLE? (see R3 chat #4330) and Carl took it 
up immediately. I use SINGLE? a lot.

Chat, #837, in the community libraries section.

Message #6921 on R3 chat.

there are two login forms. after the browser popup, a web form appears 
here asking you to log in with your R3 chat credentials

first I checked message 6921 in r3 chat. then I tried it in the browser. 
it worked.

see r3 chat #4447 for discussion there.

Carl, or anyone else who remembers - I don't recall what is holding 
things up in terms of making the source available so that people 
can try their hand at a client for R3 chat

just to see what the back end is doing - what API it exposes, etc. 
Of course you could find some of this out by sniffing, but why should 
this be needed. BTW, I'm talking about a client (say a web one) for 
the chat server that the built-in client connects to

I think Adrian means the source to the R3 chat server?

Ah, you mean the R3 chat source code. I thought you need the R3 source 
code.

I really would like to have some feedback from Carl about the Host-lib 
suggestions I did in R3 chat.

As far I remember It's working with R2 if you write the %file past 
the end, it's filled with #{00].

I remember having asked the same feature in R3 one year ago at least 
(in the R3 chat)

Elan Goldma registered to R3 Chat ... isn't it Elan, who wrote the 
first book on REBOL years and years ago? :-)

Unless it is official, it should be regarded being not official. 
Carl still needs to start regular communication at least on blogs, 
or R3 Chat, to his devs. Putting it other way around - where can 
one download r3.dll for Android?

-> blog chat

Carl went alive in the R3 Chat, stating he would like to once again 
start posting status messages more frequently now. Let's hope :-)

Carl just posted an answer to Oldes question in R3 chat -  he seems 
to be working on  Linux embedded systems. The worrying part is, that 
he admits R3 would be fine there, but he is not using it, and also 
no mention, what's his further plan with R3 .....

Ladislav: sorry, i was just following the chat here. will read the 
ticket.

ok,  it's probablly been removed then... I'm still using an ancient 
version for the chat.

The current version supports chat just fine.

This is by far the longest period of Carl's disappearance, IIRC. 
The reasons we can only speculate about - some personal/family difficulcies, 
burn-out to the REBOL topic, new daily job, which does not   left 
you with much energy and free time to do some other stuff, REBOL 
related.


We tried to get Carl's answer on R3 Chat, only with sporadic answer 
of recent Carl's job. But no answers to "what's next" for the REBOL. 
The reasons might be various again - Carl is willing to proceed, 
he just dosn't have time/energy. He is most probably not willing 
to open-source the project either, which gets us into kind of schizophrenic 
situation - no open-source, no progress either. If Carl would know 
the answer to what's next for REBOL question, he would already share 
it with us. But he did not do so, yet, which is a bit disappointing 
of course.


As for a phone call - I don't know - I would not call him, as it 
could get him into feeling, that we push him to give us an answer, 
which he might not have right now. But - I think that call from some 
friend, e.g. Reichart, would be accepted differently. But then - 
we can't push anyone to do anything, and from few weeks old discussion 
I think that Reichart does not necessarily feel urge to do such a 
thing, which is OK too.


So ... we wait ... and RED progresses at least, so hopefully in the 
end, there is still the chance that we will see the light in the 
end of the tunnel :-)

Great chat Brian. Stimulating as always. Thanks!

It will be a tiny chat you know, you don't miss something.
We have better debates here

I know nick has all the infrastructure setup for multi-user chat 
rooms and IIRC that is what was used for the last "virtual" devcon.

I'm sure I'll have more to say... multitasking right now.  Finally 
got R3 chat moved.