AltME groups: search

does R3 Chat work on win2008 server?

Robert - post your Extensions blog article to Extensions group in 
R3 Chat, for Carl to notice. Maybe he will get some ideas for further 
enhancing/simplifying work with Extensions ...

The "REBOL optimizer" is a running joke. The best way to optimize 
your REBOL code is to post it publicly in AltME or R3 chat and dare 
people to improve it. Then the community tries to one-up each other 
to improve it :)

Graham: my reply from R3 Chat:  I think that we will not get much 
refinements for read/write functions. The planned ones were /string 
(text) and /as (enconding). What you want is read working in a streamed 
way. We might get it in future, but I doubt we get what you propose.

I think my schemes are making R3 unstable.  Tried to post a message 
and got from chat


rebol system error #1301: invalid datatype 99 ... should never happen 
...

Steeve .. don't waste your time on a r2 chat .. there's no traffic 
on there.  Spend your time on schemes :)

Graham - if you have sufficient R3 Chat ranking (IIRC 40), you can 
log-in and edit R3 Docs ... authentication database is shared ...

And have you tried logging into the manual with your chat ID?

As mentioned in chat, most of the common schemes are now "done"

both altme and IOS are not designed for USB. Strange, as altme does 
not have much files to read from (in comparison to IOS chat, where 
one msg = 1 file), but slow anyway  ...

I have AltME running on an SD card, so it's even slower, but the 
big problem is the sending lockups and network dropouts. Chat works 
so much better - AltME 3 can't come quickly enough for me.

Just think about how a minimalistic multi-user chat app could be 
built using web sockets. The application code needs to be able to 
access all the existing connected sockets to broadcast user posts, 
but these sockets are connected to the main process (UniServe) while 
the application code is run in worker processes...Having everything 
in one process would solve that but you can't run any scalable app 
with such model (beyong just passing messages between sockets). That's 
where mutlti-threading would have been useful...

uh , I just wrote a long reply here but it got eaten by the altme... 
in short:


I was away for few days. Thanks a lot for all the comments and good 
info above!! Doc solved the problem also!


About websocket.. wow wow wowoww!!! this will be very very cool to 
have!! I have made chat via chat server -> flash -> js before and 
COMET is a total mess and hack on the client side (it's a miracle 
they made it work, so many tricks in there to work)

I'll finish the pending items tomorrow and will try to provide a 
more fancy example by building a realtime web chat application.

How's the chat server demo ?

is there a chat demo? where?

here is jQuery websocket plugin and chat demo that I will try to 
make work with Cheyenne

SVN r52
FEAT: web socket realtime chat demo added.

FEAT: changed socket application's SEND function specs to SEND client 
[port!] data [string!] (/with removed).

FIX:  timeout web socket issue clashing with HTTP keepalive timeouts. 
Web socket ports are no more timed out after 15sec.

For the chat demo, after upgrading to r52, run the new Cheyenne and 
point Chrome 4 to http://localhost/chat.html.You can try opening 
several windows with different user names to see how all parts react 
in realtime.

Seems that the chat demo becomes the standard way to demo web sockets. 
:-)

I'll put the demo online in a few minutes, so we can use it to chat.

in the chat protocol, if a user close the browser window, will it 
signal "user quits the room" ? I should try...

so in the chat.html example, the url ws://localhost/chat.rsp , instead 
of pointing to /chat.rsp it will look for a ws-app named 'chat , 
correct?

No, the bindind between the URL (/chat.rsp) and the web socket app 
(chat) is done in the httpd.cfg file with the 'socket-app keyword.

Got the chat demo running online. If you have a web socket enabled 
browser (ex: Chrome 4), go visit here : http://demo.cheyenne-server.org:8080/chat.html

Posting here the link for the server side of chat app : http://code.google.com/p/cheyenne-server/source/browse/trunk/Cheyenne/www/ws-apps/chat.r

this web chat is using websocket on chrome (and comet in other browser).
http://www.ddmind.com/modules.php?name=gdp_easy_chat

It's a Rebol server and It works pretty well...great uptime and low 
cpu use.

I updated the article on the Syllable sites with the online chat 
demo

It occurred to me that no contact information is published anywhere 
for Cheyenne, so I linked this chat from the community links on the 
Syllable sites

I'll add contact info in the chat demo.

Methinks the Cheyenne world would be much better serviced using Cheyenne 
chat rather than this archaic, uneditable, uncustomizable, proprietary 
and  difficult to enter thing called Altme

All good criticisms, except the "proprietary" one. It could be worse 
though - it could be a web chat.

Web chat it will be

Add this to the $(document).ready(function(){  ... } in chat to submit 
chats using the enter key;

			$("input").keypress(function (e) {
				if (e.which == 13 ) {
					   ws.send('m' + user + ': ' + $("[name=post]").val());
					   $("[name=post]").val('');
					   $("[name=post]").focus();
				}
			});

Updated version of Doc's chat example.. 
- Enter key support for login and posting chats
- Cookie mgmt for user name
- various "tweaks" to the JQuery 

chat2.html:  http://pastebin.com/m66a38d50

Thanks Terry, I've upgraded the chat demo with most of your changes. 
I've also included an alert message for non-compliant web browsers.

I've opened 2 Chrome windows logged in the online chat demo from 
both of them and I receive correctly in the first window the quit 
message from the second one. How can I reproduce your issue?

Cookies: well, it would be a nice addition to a real chat app, but 
the point in this demo is to show web socket usage, not to build 
a full-featured chat app. If you want to build a full chat app, you're 
free to take my demo code and extend it as far as you wish.

Btw, you may need to Shift+Reload in Chrome to get the latest chat 
code.

I'd be quite interested in testing R3 Chat on Cheyenne. Right now, 
it must drive the rebol.net server crazy on CGI.

(It pipes all R3 Chat connections via a CGI proxy.)

I think not, older brosers only have xmlhttp (ajax) option, iframes 
and other comet like tricks but they can't do a socket .. I haven't 
seen what js.io does.. if you wanted to make a "pure" html chat without 
comet or polling you made JS that talked to invisible 1px flash and 
flash has XMLSocket or something like that. But I heard recently 
that it can be used for other things than xml ..

hmm.. your chat an mine came through at the same time.. must be the 
queueing

I have a weird delay happneing with the tts chat demo.. there's a 
pause of exaclty 30 seconds before the broadcast? I see no reason 
for this?

I want to move DevBase (R3 Chat) to Cheyenne, but I must admit that 
I am a newbie with Cheyenne.


Currently the code runs as a process, and we tunnel packets thru 
HTTP via Apache.


However, I could run it as a persistent process in Cheyenne, or via 
some method that would simply put the http input and output into 
a socket.

Anyone here know how this is done?

Is this why chat is down now?

This is for R3 Chat, not web.  Session management is already there. 
I'm simply using a port 80 tunnel.

So, R3 Chat server has been moved to Dallas TX running in Cheyenne 
on a cloud.

Found the issue ... http://www.rebol.com/r3/chat.rwas being cached. 
 Refreshed it in my browser until I got the new version and now it 
is working again.

He's using <% insert tail response/buffer send-chat request/posted 
%>. So the shorter version would be :
<%= send-chat request/posted %>

ws protocol works,
run the chat server (see the post on the forum)
p: open ws://localhost/chat
insert p "hello"
pick p 1
== "hello"
insert p "/nick endo"
pick p 1
== "server: you known as endo"

damn...shouldn't chat on more than 3 windows at the same time...:-)

My websocket chat demo now works again with Chrome 6: http://demo.cheyenne-server.org:8080/chat.html

Carl, did you see our above discussion on getting Cheyenne to shed 
root access, and my request in R3 Chat to have Library access enabled 
in R2/Core?

(and why can't we see a line number for the error, btw?)
 See my answer in ~Chit Chat group.

Websocket support updated to hybi-10 revision. Websocket chat demo 
also upgraded: http://demo.cheyenne-server.org:8080/chat.html

Chat demo works with Firefox 8.0.1 on Linux

Is it UTF-8 in your chat example? Cheyenne converts text to UTF-8?
Text mode is ok to me.


By the way, I tested ws.html in Cheyenne sources on my XP/Home yesterday 
with Chrome, it closes the connection immediately.
But it works here now, on XP/Pro with Chrome.

Chat demo: no conversion, it's UTF-8 as long as everyone talks in 
english. ;-)

Chat demo: in fact, it should work ok in all cases, because the UTF-8 
encoding is done by the browser and the chat back-end just broadcast 
it as is to others.

Point of Information.

Anyone that requires assistance with the formalities of the IRUA 
forum, please feel
free to post questions to IRUA Chat.

Point of Information
The Chair would like to recap.

The Second Meeting of this esteemed association is scheduled for
Saturday June 2nd, 2007 at 16:00 UTC.

We currently have nominations for
Vice President: Maxim
Secrectary: btiffin
Official Advocate: Pekr

Although the nomination for Secretary will need to be seconded before 
commencement
of the vote on the position or will be dropped.


A list of group names will be posted to IRUA Chat as soon as possible 
but currently
stands at

Rabble, REWARD and RUGGED.  The last two will require seconds before 
a vote or
will not be listed.


All of these items will be on the Second Meeting agenda, along with 
committee reports
and the reopened sixth Motion regarding a Home Site.


Information regarding the Second Meeting will be posted to IRUA Chat.

Fourth Open Motion
Nominations for President;  None
Nominations for Vice-President; Maxim

Nominations for Secretary; btiffin, still requires a Second before 
vote.  An official

request for Second was placed in IRUA Chat.  This will stand unless 
there is an
objection from the floor.

To recap

The member count stands at 5.  These names will be announced in the 
Third Meeting

Roll Call.  Informally this count is higher, formally it stands at 
5.


For the First Open Motion, IRUA will be added to the list of possible 
names.


The Second Open Motion remains in Committee.  Options will be tabled 
at the Third

Meeting.  In particular the Appeal for Decision regarding votes will 
be tabled as a

Special Order during the Third Meeting and a Committee report will 
be expected.
 
The Third Motion regarding a Fiscal Committee is closed.


The Fourth Open Motion remains, pending the Appeal for Decision regarding 
voting

rights, privileges and procedures.  The position of Secretary has 
been officially
seconded.  No new names have been entered.


The Fifth Open Motion retains all open Committees.  A draft Constitution 
will,

at the least, be announced to the assembly during the Third Meeting.


There was no progress regarding the Sixth Motion, advertised Home 
Site.  This issue
will carry forward.


The Chair would like to thank all participants.  Discussions in IRUA 
Chat will be

appreciated and a proposal for voting procedures will be posted there 
along with
other Committee efforts.


The Third Meeting is scheduled to begin at 16:00 UTC, Saturday, June 
16th, 2007.

Point of Information;
A Draft Constitution has been posted to
http://peoplecards.ca/rebol/irua.rsphome with link to
http://peoplecards.ca/rebol/iruaconstitution.rsp


Please note that this is a draft and members are asked to place comments 
to IRUA Chat.

Also note, that it is also a Work In Progress, some links may not 
be complete, but the
text of the Draft copy will not change without notice here.

In recap;

We have, by acclamation,
A Vice-President; Maxim
A Secretary; btiffin
An Official Advocate; Pekr
As Vice-President Maxim will also be acting President

A Draft Constitution has been posted to
  http://peoplecards.ca/rebol/iruaconstitution.rsp


Officially the member count stands at 8, unofficially this number 
is higher.

The First Open Motion now includes
RABBLE, user.r, RUGGED, REWARD, IRUA, RCoders and Rebols

as possible association names.   R and RCamp were not seconded, but 
may be
proposed again.


A new motion to grant the Advocate powers to appoint Assistants to 
Council
was opened.


The First open motion, the Naming motion remains open and the voting 
system
remains undefined.
The Second open motion, the Rules motion remains open.
The Fourth motion will remain open until election of a President.

The Fifth motion, the Committees motion remains open and it is hoped 
that activities
will continue outside the meeting timeframes.
The Sixth motion, the Home Site motion is still open for debate.

And the Advocate Assistants motion will be open for debate in the 
Fourth Meeting.


The Fourth Meeting is scheduled to open on Saturday June 16th 2007, 
16:00 UTC


The Chair would once again like to thank all participants in this 
meeting
and those participating in the IRUA Chat forum.

This meeting stands adjourned.

In recap;


A new motion for a requirements summary was introduced and will be 
put to committee in IRU chat.

The chair would once again like to thank all participants.


The next meeting is scheduled for Saturday June 26th, at 16:00 UTC

Members are asked to discuss issues in IRUA Chat and then table motions 
here when ready.

Point of Information;  There is an association name vote survey posted 
to the REBOL/View viewtop under Public - Sites - peoplecards - REBOL 
User Group - IRUA Votes.  If there are any problems please post a 
comment to IRUA Chat.

With this issue now complete, as per the opening the of the meeting 
I move to adjourn.

To Recap;

user.r has won a quorum majority and will be the Official name of 
the association

A home site is being prepared on Qtask.com, under a project name 
of  user.r

The IRUA and IRUA chat forums will remain for 72 hours, after which 
they will be renamed.


The first meeting of user.r is scheduled to begin Saturday August 
11th 2007 at 6pm GMT.  This meeting will be held in Qtask, under 
the user.r project.  Anyone wishing to attend, please accept the 
invitations and please request an invitation by dropping an Altme 
note to btiffin.


Word of this new association will be spread across other online systems 
as well.

The chair would like to thank all participants.

This was posted in the user.r chat conversation:


The choice of the Qtask system will still be open for democratic 
objection, but democracy was taking too long.

Formal user.r communications have moved to Qtask.com.  All interested 
parties are asked to drop btiffin a note either to REBOL3 private 
chat or to private email and an invitation will be sent out post 
haste.  Please give an email address for the invitation, or mention 
that the account listed here on REBOL3 is ok. 

user.r Chat will stay open on REBOL3 for the forseeable future, but 
this forum, user.r Formal will be closed sometime after September 
1st.

Thanks to all.
Brian Tiffin
user.r Secretary

The 2009 roty will be a contest.  Details regarding a good and proper 
(REBOL) voting system will be posted shortly.  Anyone wishing to 
discuss the possibilities is invited to put ideas forward in user.r 
Chat.

Congratulations to the current nominees.

Motion to implement a voting system using Gregg's codebase posted 
to user.r Chat on Wednesday December 23rd.


It's REBOL, it's open, but seems hidden enough to alleviate influence 
decisions based on previous voters, and timelines are now short.


Please note.  Unless someone motions disapproval before or after 
the seconding, but before January 1st, 2010, this motion is worded 
to bypass user.r Formal democracy and go straight to user.r implementation 
the moment the motion is seconded.

Point of Information;  The user.r 2009 roty vote code.

vote: func [name] [

    enbase/base encloak head change head insert/dup copy "" " " 16 form 
    name "roty" 64
]


Please use that function, capture the output and post your vote to 
    user.r Chat


Due to encryption issues please use   'doc, 'brianh, 'henrik, for 
Nenad Rakocevic , Brian Hawley and Henrik Mikael Kristensen.

Let's keep this group as much chat free as possible. Initially, unless 
Carl opens the blog (if he does so), I want to point him here :-)

This group was suggested to Carl on R3 Chat ...

Quicker to talk to Carl on r3 chat

Carl, I posted messages to you privately on R3 chat... in case you 
didn't see them.

I second BrianH's opinion - please release to the first limited group 
of Devs, to prevent possible initial chaos. As for me - I think that 
we CAN manage the situation, even if you would release it publicly. 
Not many ppl use R3 Chat do download sources nowadays. I think that 
if you set some coordinator or two, e.g. BrianH, Henrik, Maxim  - 
whoever who will accept the role, then we will be fine and even other 
ppl can study the code and try some things for themselves ...

Pekr, so R3 Chat is difficult to get source code? You can't be serious.
>> 26
.../Mezzaines
>> get *
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-banner.r
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-control.r
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-debug.r
...

But the reason I use DevBase (R3 Chat) is because it has accept/deny 
recordkeeping.

Carl - have I said anything about difficulcy of getting source via 
R3 Chat? What I told is - we should not worry about much of the input, 
because even nowadays, not many ppl is using R3 Chat alone, not to 
mention getting sources via R3 Chat.

Just giving a little report about a very interesting chat I had with 
Carl:


- Host code package is in the works... given priority.  My impression 
is that Carl is really wanting for this to happen.  If any of you 
feel you can actually participate and do real tests and work, now 
is the time to raise your voice.
 

- Devices and the Extensions dll code are part of the host code. 
  Thus, by extrapolation...  We (i.e. Not Carl) could work on a model 
of Device extensions and propose it to Carl, if anyone (or group) 
wants to put the effort.  obviously using the current Extensions 
as the reference...


- As it stands now, adding Native Datatypes is complex outside of 
the rebol core  (ex: in host code) because of a few issues (GC integration 
being a major one).


- Carl isn't against the idea of finding a way to add Native (binary) 
user datatype but it most probably will have to wait a bit until 
Carl and Host developers find a way to make it simple and bug free. 
 a possible idea is to bave a special extension model which acts 
as a datatype marshaller, with defined commands as datatype actions 
(aka accessors in other languages).


- Talked a little bit about threads, but nothing really specific 
to say about it... I'll need to try it in practice so I can ask relevant 
questions.

I have the Reichart chat disorder...  In my case, I litterally see 
and read the word in my mind... not on the screen... so when I post, 
I often don't even realize words are missing or totally wrong... 
;-)

Guys, there's a trouble with OS-X or so it seems. Any experienced 
OS-X coder to help? Message from Carl on R3 Chat:


I must set OS X on the back burner... I've wasted far too much time 
on it.

There are three choices on it:
1. find a tool that does what 
I need
2. make a tool that does what I need
3. join all the sources 
into one large .c compile

Note that gcc -fvisibility=hidden does 
not work, nor does __private_extern__ wor
k either.

I've got to 
get on with other projects now. So, if you happen to find the soluti
on, 
let me know. (PS, yes, using GCC > 4.0.)

Well, I think I found the solution - it looks like Carl's assesmenmt 
of dylibs was wrong. Solutions posted in reply to him in chat.

[Please use Bounties chat] for discussion of bounties.....Leave this 
group as just the announcements. Thanks]

DevBase, aka chat. Be warned though - it was generated from a literate 
programming environment, so the source isn't structured in a way 
that makes sense to humans - only the generated docs do. Fixing it 
might require a full restructuring, which I have been working on 
in my available time.

I had a look on chat and there doesn't seem to be anything there 
....

the .r file is generated by Wetan, it was provided in r3-alpha together 
with the .r and the .rlp, but is probably not on r3 chat.

I've logged onto r3 chat a few times .. seems dead to me.

my bad...was waiting to get real binary numbers so the code shrinks 
to half the size...100% rebol code, too.  Also, I have to figure 
how to hook into the R3 codec infrastructure...and still trying to 
remember my password for R3 chat.

must be why when I login to chat .. .I start getting more messages 
from my ftp handler!

Chunked encoding is broken, which is why the released version has 
been modded to use http 1.0; error handling is broken (the source 
of most chat errors); no server support; written for an older idea 
of R3 semantics.

DevBase is the forum/filestore that you access withg the CHAT command 
in R3.

Technically, the one accessed through CHAT is the third DevBase. 
The other two have been retired.

It's the only DevBase now. I just use the term to distinguish from 
CHAT, which is only a mezzanine that calls a DevBase client. Most 
people just call it chat.

So we have the datastore (DevBase), the server (DevBase server), 
a client (DevBase client) and the mezzanine wrapper (CHAT).

For most people those distinctions don't matter, they can just call 
it chat. It matters to me because writing another DevBase client 
is on my immediate todo list.