AltME groups: search

Wrong chat window...

Well, then.. you best be getting over to the Blog Chat group and 
get on Anton's case.. I see a quote there that's obviously out of 
order.

What can off-the-shelf-parts do better? And: can we run chat-daemons?

I think it needs a news section, a chat section, a download section, 
a place to vote and comment on software.

I think of an alternate explanation .. Altme consumes all the chat 
resources available.

I think of an alternate explanation .. Altme/Rebol3 consumes all 
the chat resources available of the more prominent supporters.


This is my point!  We are all hidden in here.  It is elitist, and 
there isn't even a way for people to come in easily.  Sure we will 
have to deal with Trolls (don't we already?)  but we can see some 
new blood as well.

IOS: I would not use it as a permanent server. Instead: When we did 
the bbs, carl fired up a fresh one. We had chat and file-syncing. 
I would prefer to use it in such short-term ways. Then backing project 
up to web.

rebol.org - afaik its hosted on some shared server. maybe we can 
host it on the dedicated too? Then Sunanda & team can play whit daemons. 
chat, auto-filesyncing etc.

rebol-org, layout. IMHO it looks like slashdot. :)) I see rebol.com 
and rebolcentral as the use-sites and rebol.net, rebol.org as the 
programmer-sites. central and .org could share some things, like 
list of projects. But some thingslike the ML-arhcive is better on 
.org, and a clear "nerds"-look may be a good signal.

A CHAT WITH NAUGHTY DOG ABOUT NEXT-GEN!


We chatted with Stephen White, co-president and programming manager 
of Santa Monica, CA-based videogame developer Naughty Dog about creating 
games for the next-generation consoles … and he offered some suggestions 
for dealing with next-gen hurdles.


Q. Naughty Dog is known for the “Crash Bandicoot” and “Jak and Daxter” 
franchises which have sold over 35 million units combined. What have 
been the fundamental keys to the success of your titles and how do 
you plan to apply those to your next-generation game development?


A. One of the biggest factors in the making of a successful game 
is hiring very talented people who are motivated and can get the 
job done without the need for extensive management and finely detailed 
schedules.

contact databases, chat programs, and millions of other reblets

a contact db, or chat program requires a RDBMS?

Petr: It says "per chat room" on the settings page so I'm not certain. 
Mine was set at 1000; I've changed it to 10,000 temporarily to see 
if that makes any difference.

I found an entry in the %pref-chat.txt file. (font-size: 15) A change 
here helps until I click a or A.
Suggest definition of 2 fonts something like this:
font-size-a: 15
font-size-A:20

Just chatting;  Did a security update of the Debian 2.6.18 kernel. 
 (One of the rare tmes where a reboot is good thing.)  This is on 
Dev an old 256 mb Compaq that I run at 0% free memory most days. 
 After the reboot the disk wouldn't stop grinding.  Every move was 
a disk grind.  Start looking through the optimization params.  All 
lookin' good.  Then I realized that I forgot to put Altme back to 
a reasonable number of chat entries.  (I had it cranked to 6 hundred 
to get search to display an old entry).  Back to normal once I set 
Altme back to 1 hundred messages per.  :)  Chatting over.

I just discovered (at least) one of my altme chat files was corrupt....One 
of the lines in the file was truncated halfway through.

The synapse chat client was completely async as it used Beer.

I propose: checklists to appear in the same list as users and groups. 
Then they can be sorted by most recently modified, turn red and be 
noticed.  *Then* the "Links" group could become a checklist, avoiding 
chat.

or


The "Links" group could be automatically scraped and the links put 
into a "Links" checklist.

2. copy it out of the Altme Chat record:

change-dir %[...your path...]/altme/worlds/rebol3/chat
core-chat: reduce load/all %157.set
text: last core-chat/10055

Ingo <I'm not talking about these 3 lines for this exact problem, 
but about understanding enough to find the same info for another 
post>

Apologies for delay in replying.
***

The URL for the web archive has this parameter for the post in question:
    post=r3wp157x10054
And the two lines of code are:

   core-chat: reduce load/all %157.set
   text: last core-chat/10055

As you can see, the GROUP-ID is 157

and the POST-ID is 10054 -- but add 1 for the REBOL code as the file 
has a header line.
***
To get the GROUP-ID either RIGHT-CLICK the group name in ALTME.
Or find the group name in the Web archive:

  http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/aga-groups-index.r?world=r3wp
  
Does that demystify it?
As Reichart implies -- it's easy when you know how :-)

so chat settings is in the wrong place!

is it logical to group altme users and groups inside the same control 
as they are different entities and things such as status do not seem 
to apply equally?  I understand that they are treated as 'personal/private' 
chat groups but the users seem to fill a dual role here.

I still haven't figured out how some of you can make newlines in 
chat here (except copy/pasting it in)?

The code you need is very simple.... As Graham suggests, just check 
the timestamp on the nnn.set files.


If you want to tell your rellies how many messages are outstanding, 
check the timestamp on the entries in each .set file [teh file itself 
is a REBOL block, so very easy to load).


Just one possible gotcha -- you may not want to be disclosing details 
of your personal messages (eg don't tell your mom whenever you have 
had a private chat with your dad), nor of private groups (Gran should 
not even know about the private group arranging her 90th birthday 
party).

Interesting. I could access and post to Rebdev Chat.

rebdev chat is on a different server

Carl did not login to r3-alpha yet, so he did not saw my message 
probably yet ... I don't want to contat him via Chat, as I am not 
sure if private messages there are really private :-)

I've send him private message in R3 Chat, do you see it?

ie. another rebol chat program :)

Not Qchat, but synapse chat

i just moved to the latest beta altme for debian linux x86 - even 
if I go off-line and come back it reports that session synced but 
most groups in rebol3 are empty; my R2-Beta world appears fully populated. 
 I bumped the chat limit up to 10000 (10k) but nothing appears to 
have been added ... grops that had new contents on my old OS ( i 
moved up to Ubuntu 9.0.4 ) even yesterday now sit empty ... am I 
bumping into a known issue?

r3 chat  is anti productive  and give me head hach i like spartiate 
interface but R3/chat is yerk and as I told you I have particed spartiate 
interface for a long long time (ok you want name ? Vi BitchX telnet 
etc..)

I've never used irc .. is it a chat thing?

IRC = Inetnet Relay Chat basically design by norvegian to exchange 
information during the long and boring winter they have it was a 
good way to speak with thousands of people at the same time make 
the thing really live. of course you have ways to select the kind 
of conversation you want to go on your channel

not persistent chat though

Didn't you help me with the Synapse chat client??

That had persistent chat ...

but all chat is lost is it not?

graham it's the baest system of chatting in fact all the MMORPG use 
that system adapted to allow player to chat

I use Eliza for my chat program

google chat uses jabber I see.

Should I take this 50 user limit myth seriously?

I was going to use Altme for chat for a large group that could easily 
have hundreds online at onetime.

And is it an Altme problem or rebol based...Graham, does Synapse 
chat have the same limit?

anyway, someone should do some testing to see what the limits are 
for concurrent viable connections for  a rebol based chat server

but don't you actually have a chat server software against which 
you can implement a client-side test connection loop?  ;-D

Reichart, can you confirm that nothing is screwed up on the machine 
running this world, or its internet access... it is seriously breaking 
up.


earlier, I had a drop every 30 seconds, I tried to post a message 
7 times...  graham and I had to chat elsewhere cause it was getting 
just to insane.

After a while the client stops sending keep alives & the view changes 
away from the "chat" view.

Changing back to the chat view causes the client to create a new 
TCP connection (local port number changes) & exchange some ?authentication? 
data & some larger blocks of data too. After that the server stops 
responding to the keep alives again & the process repeats.

messenger hasn't been giving me a hard time at all.  neither has 
google chat.

It already happened in the past and IIRC someone called Carl and 
he restarted servers. I contacted him privately yesterday in R3 Chat. 
No reply so far, maybe RT is on vacation :-)

Will be done in R3. R3 Chat system is said to use similarities to 
AltME system, just more robust. It just needs GUI client ...

That will also be an issue with the R3 chat.

not sure how Robust R3 chat is. After all - it is just one of possible 
architectures. It is true that I doubt it is much advanced. It is 
good for Chat, even threading, moving threads here or there, ranking, 
etc., but we are imo not following latest developments of distributed 
apps. Some few years ago I read something about Cademlia etc. protocols, 
but not sure what it is all about. OTOH - look at Altme - it is running 
for years. And if its back-end would be DB based, it would be enough 
for a long time probably.

Moving to chat ...

Anyone else seen a trojan warning for AltMe pop up in their antiv 
virus software? Microsoft Security Essentials just told me that there's 
a virus in one of the AltMe chat files. Any idea how to see to which 
group the file belongs? The file is called 380.set.

380.set is the "Chat (Not web-public)"

It is _unlikely_ to have a virus, as it is basically a text file 
consisting of REBOL blocks (you can load it into a text file to take 
a look) But who knows how clever virus writers are these days?

Yes, I've seen some false positives with REBOL products before.

The MSE false positive for the chat set was for a javascript exploit. 
Were there any javascript discussions in that chat file?

BrianH, I still got the chat  file in the MSE quarantine, I'll take 
a look at it next time I boot into Windows and look if there's any 
javascript code in it. At the moment I don't use it that often since 
Windows 7 keeps rebooting every few hours and messes up my new harddrive, 
seems to be a common problem with Windows 7. And it worked so nice 
for a couple of days, meh.

Carl - private message on R3 chat. I did not contact you with prior 
problems, but this time I got denerved, when it happened second time 
in one month :-)

file:C:\Altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set->(SCRIPT0001)

AltME is sort of "replaced" by R3 chat on R3, in that Carl usually 
doesn't visit this place very often and prefers R3 chat. The practical 
implementation of R3 chat is different and the outcome makes it serve 
a different purpose than AltME.

Some info that I hope clarifies...

1. AltME is from Safeworlds, independent of REBOL Tech.
2. AltME is still being developed, but is waiting for R3.
3. AltME may be updated before R3. So, be sure to report bugs.

4. IOS was traded to Safeworlds. But, it may still be possible to 
get a trial release for users.

5. I use AltME quite often, but I must avoid lengthy conversations 
in order to get work done.

6. R3 Chat is a backend prototype for AltME 3.0 -- which in final 
form will be more like IOS (allow user-built reblets.)

I've been thinking about this problem for R3 Chat, and I have a solution 
that I think would work well.  It's essentially the same idea as 
virtual memory, where older messages are not loaded until the user 
asks to read them.

denis, yes!  :)

I would prefer that the message be saved somewhere ... and available 
in a button to restore than this effect,  That's how I did it in 
the Synapse chat client.

once again altme reports a trojan on Vista: Category: Trojan


Description: This program is dangerous and executes commands from 
an attacker.

Recommendation: Remove this software immediately.


Microsoft Security Essentials detected programs that may compromise 
your privacy or damage your computer. You can still access the files 
that these programs use without removing them (not recommended). 
To access these files, select the 'Allow' action and click 'Apply 
actions'. If this option is not available, log on as administrator 
or ask the local administrator for help.

Items: 
file:C:\Altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set->(SCRIPT0001)

Get more information about this item online.

380 is Chat (not web public)

As with all AltME *.set files, it is just a fiile of REBOL blocks, 
each block containing text entries that define one post


It is possible that it has lots of REBOL code thta people have posted. 
Pehaps source code in other languages too; and maybe some REBOL molded 
binary #{....}


Hard to see how that could damage your computer....Unless it has 
become infected in some other way. Have you tried deleting the world 
and restarting it? That would get you the canonical 380.set (assumimg 
you are a member of that group)

Would it be possible to use something like SQLite on the client side? 
I think AM is not fast enough to use. And I don't want to set a message 
limit, I just want to click a group/chat and have it there. Being 
able to make fast queries.

Good point, Chris.

They never worked for me when I tried them, but that was years ago. 
info here:
    http://www.altme.com/guide/chat.html#sect0.8.

And the activity line says "Chat: <groupname>" and sticks there instead 
of saying "On-line". Refreshing requires logging out and back in.

Just a note, I had to reinstall Altme again because of computer failure. 
 And like the previous times I got the following note from my antivirus: 
  Category: Trojan


Description: This program is dangerous and executes commands from 
an attacker.

Recommendation: Remove this software immediately.


Microsoft Security Essentials detected programs that may compromise 
your privacy or damage your computer. You can still access the files 
that these programs use without removing them (not recommended). 
To access these files, select the 'Allow' action and click 'Apply 
actions'. If this option is not available, log on as administrator 
or ask the local administrator for help.

Items: 
containerfile:C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set

file:C:\Program Files\altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\380.set->(SCRIPT0001)

Get more information about this item online.

Glad it's close enough for your current purpose.

If you need better searches for a specific research project, consider 
writing a few lines of REBOL and scanning your own local copy of 
/altme/worlds/rebol3/

The users.set file is simply a text file from which you can map group 
numbers and poster-ids/poster names
/chat/*.set is a series of text files, one per chat group.
It is pretty easy to do.

Or take a look at modifying this:
   http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=skimp-my-altme.r

If you are seeing this world, then you already have all those messages.

And more -- you have all the groups, while REBOL.org only shows those 
with the [web-public] flag in their titles.

Check your /altme/worlds/rebol3/chat/ folder  -- it'll be in the 
30-40 meg range.

I'm a lazzy guy, so I didn't take the time to put this on Rebol.org, 
but I have a script to read and display/export the local altme files.
http://membres.multimania.fr/didec/rebol/altme-chat-reader.r

Installation : the simple use is to put the script in your altme 
install folder and run it.


You can browse any group in any altme worlds configured on your system. 

You can scroll the entire list of messages in a group (scrool wheel 
enable). Messages are displayed like in altme (formating).
You can export the group in an Html file with formating kept.

Missing : doesn't diplay private chats (user chats).

Bugs : right click menu close the program after use (anoying isn't 
it ?)


There is no search function. But if you have time, you can mix this 
script with the skimp-altme-file script on rebol.org.

amacleod, I think you saved the file after loading it with a webbrowser 
or something.
Do this instead:

 load-thru/update url: http://membres.multimania.fr/didec/rebol/altme-chat-reader.r
	path-thru url
and open that file in your editor.

Currently my scrolling method (on mac) is to click down on the scrollbar, 
move the mouse outside the window, then release.  Moving the mouse 
up and down gives relatively good scrolling control.  Works on both 
the chat window and user list.

Script used:

$ rebol -qs --do 'foreach f remove-each f read d: %worlds/rebol3/chat/ 
[not %.set = suffix? f] [foreach r next load/all join d f [print 
r/2/year]] q' | sort | uniq -c

Is there a way to be notified of a private chat message on AltME 
in a more intrusive way than just turning the user name red? I usually 
have the All Users section collapsed because I want the groups to 
be front and foremost so I don't notice new private messages unless 
I expand the users section. I just noticed now that I had some messages 
from Graham and Ladislav from July. Sorry guys, didn't mean to ignore 
you - just didn't notice.

You could, technically, write a few lines of REBOL that looks for 
changes in the Chat files (there is one for each group), and pop 
up a requester on your screen.

Although, isn't that dead on for what "chat" or any default group 
would be for in this world?

Chat is less technically oriented to me.

Off topic ... but one of my first chat programs used SOAP to do automatic 
translations

More names are good. (check private chat)

check private chat, plz

not yet... reading it as I chat, cook and do some income tax stuff... 
I' m a bit like reichart... I've got an exec kernel in my brain  
 ;-)

Another thing that annoys me ... don't take it as a personal attack 
okay that's just what i saw in 6 years of being part of rebol community. 


We provide our community tools to exchange information (altme, chat, 
forums etc...) people come with their problems they obtain an answer 
and then what ? the answer is lost in the flaw of talking and no 
one remembers them. then time later another guy come with the same 
problem obtain the same reply and the reply again is lost in the 
wind. 


The purpose of documentation is offering a way to answer the most 
basic problems and for harder problems one never though about then 
we use forums, altme, chat etc  and then this problem is backuped 
cleaned and organised into a cookbook will say sunanda or a detailled 
any level documentation i would say.

What was the answer? I missed your request during yesterday's chat 
probably ...

express yourself via channels Carl listens to - blog, chat, or even 
better - CureCode ... :-)

Steeve - you used STAY, which is gonna be removed :-) At least Carl 
said so on R3 Chat, it is also as well reflected in updated Parse 
proposal document ...

The discussion was primarily in the comments of the relevant tickets 
in CureCode, though there was some in R3 chat. Not recently.

So - we don't need complementing to be enhanced? Because we talked 
about it, but it is not defined in proposal, it is not part of Carl's 
feature table, and I also got no reaction on R3 Chat ....

ah, got reply on Chat from Carl towards complementing:


Re #5718: Pekr, that's a good question, and I think the answer must 
be YES. We need to be able to complement bitmaps in a 

nice way". Otherwise, Unicode bitmaps, even if simply used on ASCII 
chars, would take a lot of memory.


This change should be listed on the project sheet, and if not, I'll 
add it there."

Will, R2/Forward is already available for download in DevBase (R3 
chat). It is a little outdated though, since I had to take a break 
to rewrite R3's module system. I'll catch up when I get the chance. 
The percentage of R3 that I can emulate has gone down drastically 
since the last update, since R3 has made a lot of changes to basic 
datatype behavior since then. We'll see what we can do.

posted to Chat/R3/Parse group ...

actually, having a paypal account linked with your login and a "donate" 
button would be really nice :-)  right in the chat tool.

My script is much more faster.. when I do:

tm: func [count [integer!] code [block!] /local t][t: now/time/precise 
loop count code probe now/time/precise - t]
tm 10 [
	dir: %/F/REBOL\altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\
	foreach file read dir [
		load-first-block dir/:file
	]
]

tm 10 [
	dir: %/F/REBOL\altme\worlds\rebol3\chat\
	foreach file read dir [
		first load/next dir/:file
	]
]

the result is:
0:00:01.047
0:00:06.39

I'm looking for a chat client widget .. like a multi-line 3 column 
table.  Anyone planning anything like this?

Sorry, I wasn't referring to the actual RebGUI widget set, but implying 
that a general table widget should be able to handle any number of 
columns and rows. Such a widget would be used to do all the display 
work inside your chat client widget.

1) Internet update: include a get-latest.r script that checks which 
individual scripts have been modified (based on timestamps) and downloads 
newer versions, and also handles script additions and deletions. 
Not very automatic, but I don't want it going to the internet everytime 
rebgui.r is run! ;)


2) A chat client widget is a superset of the table widget requiring 
(among other things):

	- control of individual cell font and background color
	- Support for multiple lines within a cell
	- Top, center, bottom alignment support

 - Cell call-back triggers (so if I click on this cell I can fire 
 that function, etc)
	- Probably a whole bunch of other stuff too


Mind you, reading this list makes me think that a chat widget is 
closer to the [yet to be done] grid widget than a table.

Very odd... I have my main rebgui application .. which opens up a 
VID based chat client ( pluginchat.r ).  While the chat client is 
open, some of my rebgui windows using 'display, stop opening.  Close 
down the Vid window .. and it all starts working again.

guys, I would like to open some UI look chat .... not much, but a 
bit.... Cyphre will look for me to do some slight improvements, e.g. 
to allow gradients for tabs, etc.

if there would be too much chat about that, I will ask Cyphre to 
do some changes just for my purposes, as everyone of us will have 
slightly different pov UI wise ...

hehe guesss this should go into chat  !  ;-)