AltME groups: search

As for R3 console, which is ugly, but has some helpfull features 
too:

 Chat - open DevBase developer forum/BBS
 Docs - open DocBase document wiki (web)
 Bugs - open CureCode bug database (web)
 Demo - run demo launcher (from rebol.com)
 Help - show built-in help information
 Upgrade - check for newer releases
 Changes - what's new about this version (web)

yeah, R3 chat is down for several months. Personal email nor feedback 
message were enough for Carl to find 1 minute to start the server.

(R3 Chat uses better method, and can use demand-based virtual msg 
entries to lower the overhead even more.)

Peter Wood has sent me his SQLite file (439.set). Thanks Peter!

Copying that over the one in the /chat folder seems to have cured 
the problem.


So it looks like the server has a corrupt version that it sends out 
on a fresh install.

the message protocol from the R3 dev chat.

in function: Cirlcles = private groups, Uploads=shared files,  Huddle=basic 
idea of altme-multi person chat,

move to chat

(sorry... answer in any other chat group)

Unfortunately, I had to remove R3 Chat from the contact info

Too closed. We can use the R3 development infrastructure for R2 releases. 
That means here, chat, CureCode.

If people can get on the R2-Beta world and start discussing things 
by end of Tuesday pacific time, we can use that, otherwise all discussions 
will have to be here in this group. If that turns out to be the case, 
please keep the discussion on topic. During the next release period 
we can properly switch to the community development infrastructure 
we use to make R3. Yes, that includes R3 chat.

Yes, and the most recent release is already in R3 chat. The installer 
can be fixed in an evening at most.

for those of us not in R3 chat ...

Graham, once we switch to the community development infrastructure 
next month such changes will be more possible. Yes, that means the 
R3 chat vcs too, so get your account and start learning to use it. 
If you think it sucks, write your own client - it's not hard.

The UI should really be split out, if it's not already done in R3 
chat. But don't forget that we already have bots for R3 chat.

Own client to R3 chat: The interface between the client and server 
is simple RPC. The UI is split out already.

R2/Forward location: R3 chat 837 - Community/Libraries/R2-Forward

R2 2.7.6 SDK sources posted to R3 chat in the appropriate headers. 
Time to integrate the backwards-compatible R2/Forward changes.

Proposed 2.7.7 mezz changes have been submitted to DevBase - look 
in R3 chat for details. Haven't gotten to the protocols or VID yet.

R2/Forward is documented in extensive code comments in the source, 
which is available in R3 chat #837. I need to integrate the fixes 
I did during the migration to the mezzanine source.

There is easily accessible documentation on the R2/Forward stuff: 
The R3 manual. Any differences from the R3 behavior is documented 
in extensive code comments in the R2/Forward source, which you can 
get in R3 (for now) chat, aka DevBase.

OK, now that we have 2.7.7 released (even though there is more work 
to do, i.e. platforms and the SDK), it is time to look ahead to 2.7.8 
- which is scheduled for release in one month on February 1. The 
primary goal of this release is to migrate to REBOL's new development 
infrastructure. This means:

- Migrating the RAMBO database to a new CureCode project and retiring 
RAMBO.

- Using Carl's generation code for the manual to regenerate the R2 
manual, so we can start to get to work updating it.

- Porting the chat client to R2 using the new functions and building 
a CHAT function into R2 similar to the R3 version.


The R2 chat client might be limited to the ASCII character set, though 
support for the Latin-1 character set might be possible. Still text 
mode for now, though if anyone wants to write a GUI client (Henrik?) 
we can put it on the official RT reb site accessible from the View 
desktop. The server is accessed through a simple RPC protocol and 
is designed to be easily scriptable.


It turns out that Carl already rewrote the installer for 2.7.something, 
but it was turned off because of a couple minor bugs that we were 
able to fix in 2.7.7. With any luck, only minor fixes to the registry 
usage will be needed and we'll be good to go.


As for the rest, it's up to you. Graham seems to have a good tweak 
to the http protocol, and others may want to contribute their fixes.

If you want to contribute to R2 development, get on R3 chat. The 
client is R3-only for now, but the server and message store will 
be the same when accessed from any other R3 or R2 clients, or web 
clients if we really want them.

For simplicity people refer to it as chat, but the server and message 
store is really DevBase 3. CHAT is just the name of the function 
built into R3 (and later R2) that calls a DevBase client script from 
some web server.

Steeve, how's the R2 chat gui going?

Agree. The project can be separated in two task.
- Working on a gui

- Refine the current chat app to extract a bunch of usefull functions 
(app API).


Idealy it should be 2 separated apps, so that we could write different 
GUIs for the same app.

They're in chat. If you're interested please review the changes, 
or complain here if you like.

How about a web page?  Not everyone who uses R2 is on chat .. in 
fact most are not

Anyone who is directly participating in the development of R2 is 
in chat - that's where the source is submitted. That doesn't rule 
out indirect participation though, in the form of forwarded fixes, 
feedback, advice, bug tickets, whatever :)

Yeah, we're trying to keep this group on topic. We haven't written 
a DevBase chat client for R2 yet, so the development discussions 
of R2 releases are often in this group. Some people don't like to 
use chat, even if not using it limits the extent to which they can 
participate in R2 development (they can't submit changes directly, 
for instance).

Carl "BTW, still missing the fixes Graham made to HTTP. He mentioned 
it the other day ..."


Yes, I keep saying where they are and you keep asking .. so I have 
to track you down to tell you lol.  

Wouldn't it be easier if registered chat users could add to a comment 
page for every page on rebol.com ??  Then nothing would be lost.

Chat #7083

And back in the Core group - we're trying to keep this group on its 
topic of R2 releases. We don't want to lose such discussions in the 
middle of discussions of semantics. The only reason this group was 
created is because some of the people working on the development 
of R2 don't want to use chat yet. This group is *only* a replacement 
for the R2-Beta world.

Created this group to enable REBOL 3 extensions chat ... not web 
public, unless more wider audience agrees ...

The question should be raised on R3 Chat, in order for Carl to see 
we request that ....

Interesting question on R3 Chat - is it possible to transfer opened 
file handle from REBOL to extension, or does file have to be reopened 
in extension and worked on from there?

(Oops).  Max, I experimented with OGRE in Purebasic a few years ago. 
 Frederic Laboureur built a very nice interface to it, which comes 
built in native to Purebasic.  He'd likely be a good person to chat 
with, and he's very active on the purebasic forums...

I forwarded the question to R3 Chat IIRC, but no reply. We will see, 
once we get back to the Extensions topic. Now there are some big 
changes to 'parse happening, so I would probably not disturb Carl 
with additional questions :-)

Interesting comments in R3 Chat about Commands, Extensions, DELECT 
etc.

He has said that having extensions in the host is part of the planned 
model - check R3 chat.

Max - please share your needs with Carl in R3 Chat .... I mean - 
the need to move some stuff into Host ....

If no special AltME world is started for it, then R3 Chat is the 
answer. If I want to get Carl's attention, then magic command is: 
pu Carl - it will post private message to him ...

there is no secret channel AFAIK.  R3 chat is the best place to reach 
him.  he still doesn't reply in real-time... it depends if he's in 
the batcave or not.

You can start by going through R3 chat and helping Carl with his 
difficulties with porting the host kit and extensions to OS X.

Mostly a matter of process, though. No idea if Carl is fine with 
dumping patches onto R3 chat.

R3 Chat ...

Robert - R3 Chat is official SVN for R3 and soon even for R2. I would 
learn to use the Chat. Hopefully once R3 Veiw is available, GUI client 
will emerge ..

I'd agree on using R3 chat. Contributions directly to Carl is what 
it's for. If I could figure out how to upload sources, surely Robert 
can. :-)

Remember that R3 chat is the direct replacement of Devbase we had 
for R2.

Years, ago I said that information channel fragmentation in a small 
community is evil. We still have the same situation or add new channels.

But OK, I use R3-Chat and will post to Extension group.

R3 chat is just not being advertised enough, I think. And even if 
Carl forgets to check there, be sure to let him know, so he doesn't 
forget his own tools.

Reported a boiled-down version of this wish as bug#1454 and submitted 
an initial implementation in chat#6785.

I tried to send this on R3 chat but server is down..

Check R3 Chat. I'll be sending you a few notes.

If we want to pursue IPC chat, make suggestions, and get Carl involved 
(at least get some his thoughts), we should do it in a different 
group or somewhere else. Should we do it on AltME or somewhere else?

ChristianE - either post on R3 Chat, or post to Robert - he might 
be the most direct channel to Carl, so I think you might get your 
answer faster that way ....

Graham, all available through R3 chat.

Hmm.. no messages in GUI in R3 chat for this year

why post these examples to r3 chat so that we can try them ...

Reposting from R3 chat (which seems a bit quiet lately).


I've been looking at the rich text gob! functionality and it seems 
the following dialect commands are supported:

	anti-alias logic!
	bold [off]
	italic [off]
	underline [off]
	size integer!
	left|center|right
	drop integer!
	font object!
	para object!
	caret object!
	scroll pair!
	string!


Are there any I've missed? Any doco on this yet? I havn't figured 
out how to use drop or caret yet. Anyone have any working examples 
for these?


A design question: is there any reason for retaining font and para 
support given that we could move the few remaining unsupported words 
out of those objects and into the dialect itself? (e.g. have the 
dialect directly support font names and valign words).


Also, it would be nice if we had control over the default font name, 
size and alignments [at the very least]. Perhaps a system/view/text 
object?

Gabriele, maybe you should upload your old GUI to R3 chat for reference.

I think R3-alpha is still alive as well, so Gab's GUI should be there 
too. It was many files IIRC. The question also is, if it will work 
with new R3 releases. So maybe it is easier for ppl to just get to 
r3-alpha ... I think each of us has access there :-) (note: I understand 
your message, why you want it in R3 chat, I just tried to point out, 
it is already available)

when I read through the sources (which you can get, properly formatted 
and documented through R3 chat), I can see there probably needs to 
be a better distinction between 'facet and 'faced.

so we really are talking fork here :-) Well, I will be glad for any 
GUI for R3, that is a fact. It is just that I thought managing Carl 
for some 1-2 hours chat on some isolated group here would not hurt, 
and you would simply know, what Carl's plan is. I can understand 
business driven decisions ... but anyway ...

you can see it inside R3 chat

Steeve, how's progress on the r3 gui chat client?

Ops...
It was for CHAT !

Robert - I have further questions towards "skinning", inspired by 
short chat to Rebolek .... what if different platform treat fifferently 
style behavioral aspects? I mean - drop-down under OS-X might behave 
differently from drop-down under Windows. So - it is not about having 
different color here or there. It is not about having different metrics 
to style. But it might also involve different reaction to events. 
I think that can't be solved by just "skinning". We would have to 
have differenct, platform specific stylesheets, loaded upon launch 
of the script ...

I just hat a short chat with Cyphre about this. And on Windows & 
Linux the glyph outlines are used to render the fonts.

there was a download link posted on altme... though its probably 
lost in the chat.

by lost I mean, not viewable or not obvious because it has scrolled 
up in the chat

Max - you've got Carl's answer in R3 Chat re modification of GOBs 
- it is no go .... Carl asks what you need it for ...

Shadwolf: "too easy you pillage us the free workers then you claim 
money I don't want to play that way :)" - I wish I could (as I cannot, 
sigh) make you pay for the new code you get for free asking for the 
amount corresponding to the "word of mouth effort" you done in this 
chat

Henrik - public channels are all dead though. Twitter, blogs, and 
even R3 Chat last login is 15 Nov. Hopefully Carl is taking a break 
to refresh, and to do some beta decisions ....

You are welcome, I was just trying to move your chat to appropriete 
channel (not "tech news"). Sorry that I missed your sentence has 
bigger context.

sorry.. I really should work and not just chat.

Ultimately a scroller and an item to scroll has many subtleties that 
you don't notice at first, such as step size, whether you want smooth 
or non-smooth scrolling, and the structure of the item to scroll, 
and whether you want separate behaviors for vertical and horizontal 
scrolling. Then there is also placement of the scroller. Do you want 
the scroller to automatically "sense" what direction it has to scroll 
in?


All this means that the scroller should treat each such case as a 
special case and you can't ask a style developer to meddle with attachment 
code inside the scroller style to deal with this issue. It's better 
and simpler to have a "dumb" scroller that will do your bidding for 
your style.


It "works" in Carl's demo, because he only has 1 or 2 cases to work 
with, but it doesn't really work that well. He never implemented 
tables, image-pans, icon lists, chat lists, maps, browser windows, 
etc.

Dunno where to chat about Jocko's demo, but as Henrik suggested to 
move here:

- some parts are sluggish


- for Rebolek - you can look at Demo/To-Do section - Jocko outlined 
some changes he made to some styles. His demo does not work with 
current RMA release if I am not wrong.


- we should generally start to think, about how to "unload" certain 
GUI parts from memory. By just clicking here or there I got from 
11MB to 38MB of memory usage. In some old GUI I used, it kept track 
of windows, and those were GC'ed when closed. In REBOL, if I am not 
mistaken, after the layout, faces objects are defined, and there 
is no automatic way of how to "undefine" them and free the memory. 
So my question is - will that be addressed, or is user responsible 
for the resource tracking? And is it even adressable?

Robert - I think that it is not accurate, that noone is interested 
in the R3 GUI. IMO we all are, it is just that each of us is busy 
elsewhere. If you look into the past of this group, or in the old 
GUI (Carl's one) old days, it was mostly me and 1-2 users to do some 
comments, studying code, etc. It is about the general lack of man-power. 
E.g. shadwolf claimed, he can do tree view in few hours, but is refusing 
to, and you better don't read the long blog chat. It is also about 
lost confidence of many rebollers into R3 in general. Or just maybe 
- ppl being in wait mode, untill Carl reappears?

Remnants of an early attempt at getting something structured going 
for R3 can still be found on R3 chat.

It segfaults on loading R3 Chat. I don't think that was the case 
with the previous host kit I had (alpha 98, I think). It also works 
with the RT A107 binary

R3 Chat works fine for me, with Linux binaries built from the A107 
hostkit.

R3 Chat still doesn't work, though, but for a different reason than 
on Syllable Server

Added a few recommendations in the host-lib section of R3 chat.... 
please add comments there, if you have any... 

just saying you agree is good as it shows Carl that the ideas are 
shared by several of us.

Added a few recommendations in the host-lib section of R3 chat.... 
please add comments there, if you have any... 

just saying you agree is good as it shows Carl that the ideas are 
shared by several of us.

BTW, why is this chat in host-kit area?

chat is working fine... neat :)

this being said I would like to have a private chat with you about 
some issues I encountered so far.

henrik:R3/Lobby>> help
sh: xdg-open: command not found
sh: x-www-browser: command not found
** Access error: external process failed: "Undefined error: 0"

** Where: browse parse try either either forever command-loop make 
context do catch either either -apply- do try chat
** Near: browse help-url

Seems these are broken in A110 for OSX.

Oldes - Carl seems to propose to export your requested functionality, 
if needed, so that it does not break with next internal changes. 
So please react accordingly in R3 chat = make your wish clear :-)

I can describe the phases we run through now, but not what Carl wants 
for delayed modules. If I knew that I would have implemented them 
months ago. Right now I'm at the asking for more details phase - 
see chat for details. The method of doing this with extensions built 
into the host seems to be straightforward, just one of two choices. 
It's not as clear yet for other modules.

Twitter is cool in the simple case where ONE wants to broadcase a 
message to many.  Any "warning" system is a perfect match.

Things that update people of something, esp. like servers telling 
a team (think Nagios), this is all pretty cool.


But, it would be better to have one system, tags, and then let the 
UI decide what to do with it all.


So Email, Chat, Twitter, even RSS are one "system", and something 
in it tells the UI what to do with it.

oh.. my message is reply to Gramam's:

@Ladislav ... the { } only have special significance because the 
interpreter is so written ...  so why not make it user definable 
?
I've not noticed I'm not at the end of the chat :/

Post it to the idioms group in R3 chat #754, either the file, a link 
to the original, or as source in a message.

The increasingly off-topic nature of this conversation makes me wish 
more and more that this was R3 chat. Then we could move messages.

-> ~Chit Chat

And from there on, we can have build bots which pick up any new export 
and build it for their platform. Build results are reported back 
somewhere (email, static website on the bots which gets aggregated 
elsewhere, a simple CGI, R3 chat, ...).

OK, github - what's the future of R3 Chat now? :-)

I'm remembering now one of the reasons I wrote devbase (R3 chat)... 
to make this step easier.

4b3. developer notifies upstream via r3 chat, altme, curecode, or 
even github pull requests.