AltME groups: search

Please move non-Red payment chat to another group.

I referred to it in our private chat on our secret project, but thanks 
:-)

OK, red works, as for Red/System demos, where do I get all the dependecy 
libraries from? Any previous chat you can point me to?

Andreas - stop pesking us for such a chat. Many arguments areound 
are based upon various arguments, some of them leading to history 
of mankind/math itself. Thanks ...

Pekr, please chat elsewhere.

While it's too late to keep all this chat out of the Red channel, 
if you would all like to continue this very specific discussion, 
I will create a group just for that.

And Core has even been released before Chat :-)

If you want to extract any other comments from this chat, and include 
them there, to clarify your desires, that would be great.

cant run it now. but if you can make console pleasant, the better. 
r3 experience is terrible for me. What i like about it though, is 
some commands - help, docs, why?, chat, bugs, news ...

Doc, what I meant was, if you use blocks as a message structure, 
you include issue! values as hashtags, you gain speed and storage 
efficiency. But you may also hit limits. Suppose you have a blog/chat/tweet 
system, how many unique issues can you have without blowing a symbol 
table if they are words?


Not saying they shouldn't be words, to be clear, just making sure 
I know how to use them correctly. :-)

Doc, would you update this page of yours http://www.red-lang.org/p/documentation.html


to indicate that Red chat is occuring at http://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/291/rebol-and-red

You missed the point, Red's MOLD is not yet able to correctly handle 
multiline strings, I'm right now working on adding that support, 
I'm just wondering how to do it the best (same discussion than in 
SO chat with Ladislav).

The Red console script is a good showcase of what Red is already 
capable of achieving, so for those wondering what Red can do right 
now, just read it carefully (questions are welcome, here, on SO chat 
or on Red ML). ;-)

I've hacked Ladislav's INCLUDE to let me build .red scripts, and 
I built a console with my mezzanines. When you get back, I'll chat 
with you about it, and send it to test. It compiles fine, but some 
funcs fail if compiled in. If I then paste them into the console, 
they work fine. e.g.

negate: func [n [number!]] [n * -1]

Paul: feel free to open one and send us invitations, but I personaly 
have no time to post news on yet another channel  (I already post 
here, on Twitter and on red-lang.org, and answer questions on IRC, 
SO chat, ...)

Some johnk at the StackOverflow chat asked for the multi-line code 
from Carl. I've got that in World, if anybody can use it.

Have to cross post links to SO chat since I can then read them directly 
on the Nexus 7 whereas I don't know how long it takes for links here 
to make it

Cross-posting on SO Chat.

Do we have a Fossil group? If not, we should, so this knowledge and 
chat doesn't get lost.

Please use Ann-Reply to chat. Thanks

I'm happy to announce our next Android release. Cyphre did a great 
job and pushed the port further forward. Here are the highlights 
of the new release:

-added full file access
-added networking
-added console user input (ASK etc. works)
-improved threading (at the app level, not R3)
-misc small internal changes in the console code


With this it's possible to run R3 chat on your Android phone :-) 
Here is how to do it:

make-dir %/mnt/sdcard/r3/
change-dir %/mnt/sdcard/r3/
chat


The paths might be a bit different on your device. The trick is to 
use the /sdcard path and put everything below it.

The link is as always:

http://development.saphirion.com/experimental/R3droid.apk

Again, thanks to all who made a donation for this project!

Please chat in the Ann-Reply channel

Need some Rebol optimization on this ... the Rebol stackoverflow 
chat bot 
https://github.com/gchiu/Rebol3/blob/master/scripts/rebolbot.r3

At a request, I upgraded R3 on Try REBOL from 2.99.111, the last 
official RT version, to Andreas' current build, the ongoing 2.101 
series. Not many changes, but some bug fixes.

http://tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl


Graham programmed a nice bot for Stack Overflow chat that is able 
to call the Try REBOL web service to execute code examples and post 
the result.

Yes it is nice, and you're avoiding trying it out. I thought you 
were going to drop by the SO chat at some point. Or have you been 
in there under a different name?

Ok, Carl is now on Stackoverflow chat .. just need to upvote him 
somehow so he can actually talk!
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/291/rebol-and-red

Thanks Andreas, Cyphre, Robert and all the others actively implied 
in R3 dev, the ongoing progress and all the tools you shared and 
have committed online. The R3Droid chat works well under my Android 
3.2 (Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1). and the chat also runs fine under 
my Win7 Toshiba -  from the binaries set online at http://www.rebolsource.net

transmitted by HostileFork - "Good points, all of them.  Let us discuss 
r3bazaar... on SO chat.

No need. We've already been dealing with this issue on SO chat, and 
in the other communication venues where the relevant developers are, 
for the last week, and we already have a plan. Like I said, we're 
already on it.

BTW Carl restarted the "R3 chat" server so you can just type: "chat" 
in the Android console and leave message here.

With the latest Android version it is nice to try type: HELP in the 
chat input prompt to see the BROWSE works nicely ;)

I believe that R3 Chat would be the PERFECT solution for REBOL communications, 
if we could build a more mature HTML front end.  Will Carl release 
the source?

Or should the community work on reverse engineering and building 
our own drop-in chat solution?

I'd sponsor work on engineering a new chat system.

How much do we need to get chat going?

http://www.rebol.com/r3/chat.r

That's what we see with "source chat" in R3

The thing is that a more widely useful chat/collaboration feature 
implies a very good UI. That's not something that we have too many 
people capable of at the moment.

Well, my greater point with it is its involvement in education. Your 
chat just now, with Scot and James, made me think some more about 
it.

Promoting Rebol to them, along with a chat/collaboration feature, 
just makes sense, both for them and for Rebol.

I'm thinking that maybe approaching them with the benefits of using 
Rebol as the buil-in scripting language with the possibility of sponsoring 
the chat/collaborative features, might be attractive.

The other reason I brough it up now is that community sharing is 
a pretty big part of Algodoo and so a chat/collaboration feature 
would be great to have.

Is R3 chat in github? It does not handle failing open a browser window 
very gracefully.

As for me, I can see it as a chat. I am not sure it scales well to 
replace Altme like product, but maybe I am wrong. I liked IOS model 
with pluggable handlers, and I would also probably made the back-end 
SQLite based ...

Well, maybe all we need to do is to ask Carl, if the Chat could be 
released too? Has anyone tried already?

People on facebook seem to have trouble creating R3 chat accounts.

@NickA: About enhanced r3 chat, have a look to %wchat.r in the %OpenMe/ 
folder of this Altme world.

Basically its %chat.r but it act as a proxy between the Devbase server 
and the browser. The goal is that the browser replace the CLI interface 
: not typing command in CLI but cliking link in the browser.

Its just a start. There is some work to do to handle POST request 
and then allow posting. + enhancing HTML presentation.

I think, I never understood what your changes did  :-)

the R3 chat was also down recently.  I wish I had more time to play 
on "fun" projects like this  :-)

Moving to ~Chit Chat.

I think that reason for not using R3 is not technology related. Carl 
even talked about it in the past, that - maybe one day. Imo the reason 
is two-three-fold - 1) RT's failure, to set up R3 in the wild, business 
wise 2) at the time Carl joined Roku, R3 was not open-sourced. 3) 
I also remember, that on R3 Chat, he asked about Gstreamer. So imo 
even a toolset problem - R3 lacking extensions to popular subsystems, 
and also risky situation - what if Carl would decide to leave the 
company? Who would work with his R3 code?

Seems like I missed the chance to join the chat with Carl and you 
guys on StackOverflow, but I was in my dreams (or nightmare about 
autorelease). ;)

He said he would only use r3chat before .. but he says that the SO 
chat is very nice and usable from a browser

Yeah, I just remembered, he said something about being able to chat 
from any computer.

that is R3 chat

But is that usable with e.g. this world? If yes, then he could just 
use that and join a chat here, couldn't he?

No, an interface to this world, but from a text terminal. Like R3 
chat, but which actually work with AltME worlds.

fine.. so after 45min of waiting, what he said instead of a note, 
that SO chat is nice?

Raspberry Pi is just medial thing. That thing is just small computer, 
nothing more imo, much hyped, than usefull, unless you build some 
kind of min-pc or player. IMO something like Beagle Bone (Black), 
with many IO pins, is more interesting. BTW - during SO chat, Carl 
mentioned he is getting Beagle Bone Black. That's imo, where Rebol 
could find some niche - embedded, automatition, etc.

We do have #notREBOL for general chat on REBOL alternatives.

Not many people can make a living programming REBOL. That's for the 
Chit chat section

An answer in a not web public group -> Chit chat

Ah, I love how AltMe optimizes code. :-) Thanks all. Very fun chat 
on this.

Chris is in Peru at present .. don't expect any answers soon.  Unless 
you talk to him on SO chat

More about the riots in Chit Chat

This group is for the discussion of Red documentation. I think it's 
important enough, and will generate enough chat, that it deserves 
its own group. See #Red for previous doc chat.

Is carl going to spring an R3 web chat on us? The last message in 
chat:
#8073: post from Carl 26-Nov:

Yes, the web interface is also working. Top level is a bit slow, 
but other links
 seem to respond ok.

I noticed he didn't answer in the blog when I asked about chat being 
open sourced. Could he be planning to take it commercial?

MaxV: I think you can edit. I would definitely not replace it with 
the Github one, at least not for docs, which are quite extensive. 
IIRC, you had to be registered on R3 Chat, and then when you got 
some level of access, you could edit docs. There is more to the R3 
Chat, than might be seen from the mostly ugly surface ...

Well, WIP wiki is imo OK, that's all I say. You are wrong if you 
think there are no editors, etc. Those are just higher rank users 
of R3 Chat IIRC. We imo need some consensus on this - do we move 
everything to Github? What about prebuilt products, marketing, etc.? 
What remains on REBOL.com then?

Max, the problem is that most web tools actually suck... not because 
their developpers are bad... but because the web, as a platform sucks... 
in all regards.   its slow, super complex, apps break up every other 
month, and even the basic framework on which the web is layers was 
NEVER meant to be used like it, so even that is corrupted to start 
with.  Also, the apps we use keep changing from under our feet, which 
as a user we have NO control, and it gets very tiresome... it seems 
like every other time I log on to any of the bigger web sites, its 
changed, and I'm lost... again.


I have not seen a single altme-like product which I could chat in 
**real-time** with many people in groups as we do here.   its always 
either super slow, very slugish, insanely complex or insanely dumb. 
 


The only platform which has some appeal so far is the Stack Overflow 
engine, which has a pretty good architecture... but man would it 
be sooo much better if it wasn't built over web technologies...

Bo, along with open sourcing AltME, the R3 chat would be good to 
have opened as well. This has been asked of Carl on the blog (more 
than once), but the question keeps being ignored. Almost as if on 
purpose - might be possible that Carl is trying to figure out a way 
to monetize that side of Rebol.

There was a proposal to enhance READ with something like an /options 
or /types option, I can't remember which, but it's not in CureCode. 
It was Carl's idea, but it might be in a blog, chat or another AltME 
world. I only remember it because I was waiting for that feature 
to enhance the clipboard scheme's handling of other datatypes.

The /options refinements was one of the proposals for standard function 
options; /into was another such proposal. You'd have to look in R3 
chat for details.

Looked in chat #1097 (the area where standard options were discussed) 
and we haven't brought it up there yet, but Carl did a blog about 
it.

You need a reputation of at least 20 to use the SO chat system ... 
and with ticks, you're already there.

Crap, I hate not being able to edit what I just posted. Used to being 
sloppy on the SO chat. I see that I managed two typos above...

Ping me either here or on SO chat if you would like the two files.

let's move to chit chat

to chit chat...

This SO chat seems quite nice, perhaps I should sign up. The interleaving 
of CureCode and Github feeds works well.

build/ should be ignored, yes. (Let's move to "Git" or to private 
chat for that.)

Ladislav, can we address indexing changing scenarios separately?


I have to run. Will check back later. If the chat gets long, could 
someone summarize final thoughts at the end? Thanks.

I asked this in the SO chat, to BrianH, but maybe someone here can 
answer sooner.


@BrianH, can you confirm that that it's a bug that a module loaded 
using import doesn't export any words listed in the Exports: header? 
When I load the same module using Needs:, its exported words are 
visible as expected.

Could you please complete the list of changes in REBOL3

 - that is a problem: I do not think such a list can be made "complete". 
 Some changes actually are "code cleanup", e.g. Also, there is a time 
 problem: I would have to browse R3 Chat, CureCode, AltMe, DocBase, 
 Carl's blog, Carl's R3 doc, GitHub, whatnot to do it. Why do you 
 think I am the one who has got the time to do it?

Carl is going to drop by the SO chat room within the next week.  
If you want to ask him any questions, you'll need a SO reputation 
greater than 20

I will have to think about this. I'm curious, though, what your opinion 
is of return/redo given that BrianH said in the SO chat that it had 
been decided to remove this and yet you documented it and showed 
its usefulness. Later, Brian also said:


Ladislav proved that RETURN/redo needed to be removed, by writing 
example code that was safe to run, but used methods that were provably 
unsafe if used mistakenly or maliciously. It would actually take 
a programmer of Ladislav's calibre to use the feature safely. But 
DO function is provably OK.

So, is the intent to remove the feature?

BrianH said in the SO chat that it had been decided to remove this 
 - I do not know about such a decision yet

Read the SO chat from around 22:55, yesterday. Curious about your 
take on that discussion.

Bo, see my reply on SO chat:

http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10446555#10446555

This is a periodic posting of community links along with activity 
levels for discussion dedicated to Rebol and Rebol-like languages. 
The intent is to bring a dispersed community together by providing 
the current list of places where the community gathers along with 
reasonably accurate activity indicators for each place. This list 
will be posted in each location weekly or bi-weekly so that anyone 
dropping by will not have to look far in order to learn where else 
things are happening.


Currently the activity stats are gathered manually and postings are 
also not automated. This will hopefully change as the requisite scripts 
to scrape and post automatically are developed. This updated list 
will eventually be available at http://rebol.comas the site is cleaned 
up post Rebol open sourcing. 


# Chats

## R3 Chat

This is the primary forum for Rebol 3.0. It runs from any Rebol console 
in a text mode, but a GUI version is planned.
- Run R3, type chat and follow the instructions (all platforms.)

- Type "help" for more information or visit R3 DevBase Chat Forum 
(http://www.rebol.com/r3/devbase/index.html).

- To view public messages from any web browser go to RebDev mobile/phone 
interface (http://www.rebol.net/cgi-bin/rebdev-web.r).

- Problems? Please contact Rebol Technologies at (http://www.rebol.com/cgi-bin/feedback/post2.r).
Activity: 4 messages this month


## Rebol chat on Stack Overflow (http://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/291/rebol)

- Note that you will need a reputation of 20 in order to be able 
to post in the chat. 

- You can gain this minimal reputation (essentially a spam filter) 
by participating in the Stack Overflow group of sites. 
Activity: 380 messages this week


## AltME Worlds

A private instant messaging system where rebolers hang out 24/7. 
The current world dedicated to Rebol and Rebol-like language discussion 
is called REBOL4
- Get client at http://www.altme.com/download.html
- connect to the 'rebol-gate' world with user/pass, guest/guest
- request account on REBOL4 world in the REBOL4 request group

Web archives of public groups, first to last in the most active world, 
REBOL4, as well as the dormant world, REBOL3:
REBOL4 (http://www.rebol.org/aga-groups-index.r?world=r4wp)
Activity: 286 posts last 6 days
REBOL3 (http://www.rebol.org/aga-groups-index.r?world=r3wp)


# Forums

## Rebol Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/rebol)
A new special interest group for Facebook users.
Activity: 26 messages this month



## Rebol Google+ community (https://plus.google.com/communities/100845931109002755204)
Activity: 4 messages this month



## Rebol Google Group (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/rebol)
Activity: 43 messages this month



## Synapse EHR Rebol Forum (http://synapse-ehr.com/community/forums/rebol.5)
A web-based forum for R2 and R3, provided by Synapse EHR
Activity: 13 messages this month



## RebelBB France (http://www.digicamsoft.com/cgi-bin/rebelBB.cgi)
A simple forum, written in Rebol, for French speakers.
Activity: 140 messages this month


## Nick's Rebol Forum (http://rebolforum.com/index.cgi)

A micro-forum (just a few lines of Rebol) hosted by Nick Antonaccio. 
(Note: the captcha question is first.)
Activity: 79 messages this month


# Q&A (Question & Answer)

## Stack Overflow questions on Rebol
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/rebol
Activity: 219 questions tagged
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/rebol3
Activity: 2 questions tagged

Also, note an additional "chat" venue: IRC.


A few of us hang out in IRC in the channel #rebol on freenode (irc://chat.freenode.net, 
http://freenode.net). 128 messages in December. If you don't have 
an IRC client handy, freenode also provides a web-based client for 
quickly looking around: https://webchat.freenode.net/

Ok, off topic now ..  can move to ~Chit-chat or ~Humour  :)

What I would do if I could afford is, is to re-implement R3 using 
the D language. This should result in a more simple code base (Carl's 
code base is in a very good shape, so don't take me wrong), and using 
this we would close the most fundamental missing parts in R3. There 
are around 5-8 topics that need to be addressed. Andreas and I just 
had a short chat about this this week.

Maarten - well, some ppl might ask just the reverse - why to continue 
with Red, if/when R3 got open-sourced? R3 is closer to completion, 
Saphirion invested time/money into it. Difficult to suggest one or 
the other side, to shut down the project. I am curious, what chat 
with Carl during the devcon will reveal ....

There is one other issue about archiving AltME chat - the conversations 
aren't threaded. You'd never know if a search took you to the beginning, 
middle or end of the information for which you were hunting.

I once tried to create a threading extension to the 'link chat. You 
had to click on a message, and then your message was tagged as an 
answer to the original.

ah, thanks ... I continue to discuss some aspects in blog-chat ...

Sunanda - OK, maybe rebol.org could add another button - IM community 
... and link to info about AltME, and also to rebol.net altme chat 
....

that's the "chat and ask questions part"....

ok then... let me create a group for Remark and maybe that can be 
used as a common chat room.  then whoever feels enclined to do so 
can just compile the stuff in whatever means he like and we can start 
some collaborative work on the beast...