AltME groups: search

Ladislav. Hmm.. that's a bit disappointing, although understandable. 
It's a complex parse rule with some time spent in setup.

I was hoping for existing code. :-) I already have the flip bit, 
but then couldn't find a draw command to let me alpha a four-point 
spec'd image. I figure I'll have to do it with two faces, which is 
OK.

We should offer them R3 View then :-) "Cairo sucks" is my general 
reaction, even if it might not be true ... just to provoke guys a 
bit :-)

Yes, it a bit different from "normal" errors in REBOL. I haven't 
got much experience with out of memory situations. Can you test it 
somehow, if it'll work?

OK, but do you think that it is a bad thing to have vector gfx available? 
That way, VID3 UI will be scallable. Carl also said, that there is 
some space for improvement. What Cyphre thinks is, that maybe we 
could get compound rasteriser workind, which could speed things up 
a bit (Flash uses it)

Brock, maybe a bit later we could start one in hockey.

Thanks Sunanda.  I have worked with primes before and decided to 
revisit some work I did in the past and started a hunt for certain 
primes that exhibit a bit different behavior.  I found what I term 
as scalable primes.

I just looked over comlib but looks like you gotta know comlib functions 
already and the documentation was a bit lacking for me.

As stated...we will make things smaller over time.

But even after it all, with this number of people, the source needs 
a level of redundancy...


But yeah, it seems a bit  silly to me when people say they have the 
"biggest" REBOL application, because unless you are working on something 
of the scale of what we have been doing, and that is quite unlikely... 
 And we are speeding up, and making even more every day.

I'll look into that.  Was hoping for something a bit more petite.

The search function is changing a bit.  I'm simplifying the look 
so that it is only two blocks:

db/search [logic][action]


There will no longer be a database block.  Instead a database and 
field will be inputed together such as:

db/search [my-base.field-name > 1][my-base.field-name]


In that example it would check the database called "my-base" and 
check its fieldname which is called simply "field-name" in the example 
above to see if it is greater than the value  of 1.  If it is then 
it returns the field-name value.

Yeah, xavier, back in the day there was 1am close in Ontario, 3am 
in Hull Quebec;  A mass exodus across the brige started at about 
midnight.  It was fun, but it WAS chaos and it WAS a problem.  Now 
Ontario has 2am close, so things settled a bit.

About VPS: Looks like it could be Linode for me. Slicehost is pretty 
on the surface, but it appears that customers are a bit happier with 
Linode. Also Slicehost was recently purchased by Rackspace, and some 
customers reported a lower service quality after that. That might 
be a bad sign.

I'm just a bit amazed at the lack of comprehension.  I agree with 
DocKimbel and I advise to think on his words longer.

I have never met with anything I could not handle. Gee, we are complaining 
about REBOL parser not being able to handle ANY format, while even 
lamers as me are being able to use 'parse in opposition to regexp? 
Why this possession? What is exact deal breaker? Isn't it a bit naive? 
Brian, really - what fishermen are you talking about? For anything 
more complicated than one-liner, you have to come up with script 
anyway. And if you store code into script, you can write few parse 
rules, no? Well, maybe it is me, who never uses load (I don't like 
the fact it mysteriosly does decoding of few things here or there 
- libraries, jpg, which is fixed in R3), but with REBOL string parsing, 
you can do many things. I don't even agree to Max opinion, that parse 
will let you down. Well, if you want to parse streamed mp3 binary 
content, maybe so, but for some general data format, specifically 
delimited? Come on :-)

Before I read this I was going to add ...

Feeling a little bit responsible for being this argument to the rebol 
community, in a small attempt to advocate for more users ...  I'd 
also like to say, that push come to shove; if the argument gets to 
a point of driving away the likes of Nenad, or Gabriele in some sense 
of disgust at the un-understanding of some of us versus the potential 
of a few thousand new faceless strangers that may be attracted to 
a "garbage loading dialect" language.  I'd vote to keep Doc and Gab 
happy and skip the faceless masses.   ;)

Foreign data will have codecs. No need to try to treat it like REBOL 
data. The foreign! type is the worst possible situation, since it 
would take the overhead of dealing with foreign data away from the 
actual input proces, and add that overhead to every bit of REBOL 
code that called LOAD, because LOAD would no longer be trustworthy.

I'll do me very best to tread here lightly...


- First, I have no direct control over this world, but will indeed 
try to help.


- Paul, it is a little bit like an "after school special TV show" 
when you accuse someone without knowing for sure.  It might all fit 
for you, but perhaps siding with best in your fellow man would serve 
you better than siding with the worse?


- If I were to make a guess here, someone, not understanding the 
interface to remove themselves from a bunch of groups, might have 
in fact gone out and deleted them instead, and may not even realize 
they did this.

I use a minimal 32-bit debian. Worked immediately.

technology is surprising sometimes...   my DNS provider just sent 
me a mail to confirm my phone number.... 
- I click on the link in the mail, 

- a web page opens up with a form to verify my number (it was wrong!)
- I click a little link that says... call now!

- not 1 second after hitting the link, *my phone actually rings* 
and it spells out a magic number

- the next web page that arrives after "call now!", has a field to 
enter the number!
- press submit.
- done!

the most advanced captcha I've seen so far.


this mixing of web and physical space is always a bit strange... 
is it not?

what was a bit unsettling was the speed at which their server called 
me when I hit call now... I think the phone wrang before the page 
refresh occured!

true but another very interesting theme without any broad public 
notice is SWIFT. 

unbelievable what there is going on if you digg a little bit deeper.

you probably all are aware that there is a way to electronically 
divert funds without the originator or destination being aware of 
it while doing a xfer... the end result being that money has "disapeared" 
from both accounts.


you need to be on location, but still with a bit of access, its very 
easy to break the system.

this is a bit sad ... creating "thumbnails" of an 8kb pdf results 
in 2 x  20 - 40 kb jpgs

in what way logging here every day to post tons of messages will 
change anything ? That will make me see more gentle ? sorry I'm not 
gentle and I don't care if I hurt your feelings. That's a lack of 
respect from me ? how clever you are :) So what .? Ban me bit me 
ignoreme ijuriate me like you did the sorry truth will remain RMA 
wasn't able to produce anything in a year and this Pekr isn't quite 
completly Carl responsability ... So don't fool me I'm no fool

At the end he got so nervous as john cleese in the Bicycle Repairman 
sketch and finally he bit the guy's wrist. They called the police 
and he had to go for a blood test to make sure he doesnt have rabies.


By now he is in a mental institution for ~4years. I don't think he 
can ever recover anymore...


I feel Shadwolf has a similar medical condition which he makes even 
worse by drinking. But it's curable... if someone can help and take 
it seriously.

Ladislav - I start to think, that sometimes you have really problem 
with perceiving reality, as marking my non rememberance of Carl's 
original post as a lie, is a bit exagerrated imo.


Look - I don't care about any academic claims like "since you cannot 
deny you rea the original posting". The reality is, the group went 
so off-topic even when Carl was presented, that for me it really 
does not matter, how accurate your explanation of original group 
meaning is.


If I, or anyone else think, that it is good to post there any messages 
for Carl to read, then we will do so, easy as that. I think that 
life is more dynamic, than pedantly adhering to rules, especially 
in case there is a proof those rules were far more not adhered to 
in the past. I always do things as I feel them being right, not how 
any "written law" suggests, so If I feel that I want to send a message 
to Carl that way, I will do so.

Now I depart from all this nonsense ...

Interesting, that even 7 years ago, 5-Jan-2005, the purpose of the 
group was not clear enough to some other ppl. Two messages later 
Carl logged in, not commenting on the purpose of the group itself. 
And to be fair - back at that time I though it is actually from Carl, 
but I don't think so anymore. It's not about the pov change, even 
back then it was all speculation on my, and others side ... 


ReViewer: Just wondering, "Carl Only Messages" means this group is 
read only except for Carl?

Anton: Yes, it's a bit ambiguous, isn' t it ? I think the group creator 
should clarify in the group description whether these are messages 
TO or FROM Carl. (If TO, I think that's a bit hopeful... ;)

pekr: I think it is FROM Carl, as To Carl only you can contact him 
privately ...

none: Actually those would be better name "To Carl" From Carl", Or 
better "Carl Talks" "Carl Listens"


Not that it matters much anyway imo, we simply will stay away from 
that group, to make such a discussion a closed case ...

hmm... that seems a bit silly. if you change your network provider, 
you can't serve anything.

hmm, i think what your are trying to do is what the panel accessors 
do by default (warning: a bit bugged, but easily fixable)

Really need a SET-PIXEL or DOT command just for drawing single pixels. 
These other ways are a bit unwieldy.

Yes, looking good. Just a bit irritating with the need of translate. 
A dot command at the same position as the start of a line would be 
desireable.

great stuff! but drawing is a bit slow here. would it be an idea 
to limit mouse input to a certain amount per second?

Because you might move the mouse a bit after shift, before mouse 
button.

Mike, a bit here: http://home.tiscali.dk/john.niclasen/vid-styles.html#section-5
If you do e.g.: 
layout [mycheck: radio-check "something"]

then mycheck/data will be true or false. Is that, what you needed?

A bit more about my guesses about VID and mySQL. I wasn't sure it 
was not the number of rows that was causing the lockup so I loaded 
100,000 rows into the MySQL table and VID seems to be able to page 
through them based on right arrow (meaning get the next, display 
it, repeat until last row) i.e. hold it down and the row information 
will flash on the screen and eventually catch up.   The hanging seems 
to be a combination of stacked UI events and hitting a mySQL row 
that has a large BLOB in it.   Small text values in the BLOB are 
handled.   I can page past a large BLOB provided that there is not 
an accumulation of UI events.  If there is not a large BLOB in the 
rows being read, then it does not hang when VID is asked to page 
through at a rate it can not quite keep up with.

I've been grumbling over a few observations I did on early versions 
of Canvas and ROAM regarding SHOW on three different machines: A 
slow PC linux laptop, my fast Windows PC with a Radeon 9500 graphics 
card and my mac mini with medium speed Radeon 9200 graphics chip. 
For my tests I used the ROAM object browser available in the desktop 
under Rebol/REBOL Tools.


When I maximize ROAM to full screen on my laptop and mac, they are 
rather slow at redrawing the highlight bar. But if I move the mouse 
quickly to the top/bottom of the list, the highlight skips those 
entries that can't be highlighted in time, and therefore it remains 
fairly responsive even if the frame rate is low.

However on my fastest machine with my powerful Radeon 9500, the highlight 
bar moves at a snails pace behind the mouse pointer, insisting on 
redrawing every highlight. It takes at least a full second to reach 
the current mouse position and the event system is locked and REBOL 
is fully concentrating on SHOWing the list face.


The amount of time SHOW takes to display the list view is dramatically 
dependent on the size of the window. A small 400x400 window is fast 
enough for normal use, but a 1280x1024 window is very slow.


It looks to me like a frame rate problem: Somehow my fast machine 
calculates a specific very high framerate (say 50 fps) that SHOW 
should handle for the list face, but can't keep up at all. Therefore 
50 SHOW operations take 2-3 seconds longer than they should and the 
delay occurs and it drowns out the event handling. This framerate 
is apparently tuned properly on the Linux and the Mac so it never 
becomes a problem there. How is this framerate calculated?


Also when I run the console benchmark program, I get remarkably bad 
performance on text output on my normally fast Windows machine, while 
the mac and linux consoles output text 5-10 times faster. Reports 
from other Windows users say my console is very slow.


I'm really just wondering if others with Radeon graphics cards and 
Catalyst drivers have similar problems.


Not all is bad: This framerate problem can be solved within REBOL. 
I did a simple delay system for Canvas which sped things up quite 
a bit on my machine and I've just done a dynamic method for ROAM. 
The delay system simply implements a DELAY-SHOW function which does 
not invoke SHOW unless a specific amount of time has passed. The 
method I did for ROAM is dynamic in that it measures how long a SHOW 
takes and adjusts the delay accordingly plus a tiny safety margin 
of 0.01 seconds. It works quite well. At the cost of a reduced framerate 
and sometimes missing a redraw at the end of a mouse move, I get 
a much more responsive ROAM, and the framerate adjusts nicely between 
large and small windows.

See if you can tell the difference between:

http://www.rebol.com/view/tools/roam.r
and
http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/roam.r

It was a bit wrong saying: "no matter what other style is in focus". 
Most styles are not in focus like that. They get events. Putting 
a style in focus mean, it's ready for some text input. Using VID's 
key style puts an event filter high up in the event system, so keyboard 
shortcut events can be filtered, before the styles further down the 
event-system get the events.

... and I don't expect Carl (RT) to check every bit of changes, as 
he imo expects us to do testing and post reports :-) Anyway - bug 
is submitted, let's hope it will get corrected ...

graham: an oscilloscope could be a bit too intensive :-)

I guess I am hoping for a bit of attention. I will need some changes 
to the View system or it will not be able to work perfectly. Right 
now seems not a good time with rebcode just released, but this seems 
so fundamental to user interfaces to me I think it's more important. 
Everything always seems to lead back to the list.

but the standard list is very elegantly done and allows you to have 
a simple iteration function. It's a bit too simple, but then again 
I can't find proper docs on doing LIST with SUPPLY

it's a bit of a hassle...

interesting.... meanwhile, I'm cooking up a replace requester for 
the editor. maybe I'll have something ready by the weekend. (a bit 
busy right now)

I think it's a bit dark... maybe it should have the same color as 
the top bar or the botton text should be white

anton, I'll see what I can do about it (would also learn a bit about 
iterated faces), but I'm focusing on getting things to work for now 
:-)

good one.. will experiment with that a bit. thanks

ok, I've been experimenting with it a bit, and I must say, it's harder 
than I thought. I think I'll give up on it for now. too many things 
don't fit together...

(should be marked a bit clearer, I know)

new version 0.0.5 uploaded.

single selecting works now.
standard font made a bit smaller.

selecting requires the use of a new face called LIST-TEXT with a 
FEEL that allows for mouse over and single/double clicking in the 
list.
single-click action is stored as a block in LST-ACT
double-click action is stored as a block in DBL-LST-ACT

Demo can be found at http://hmkdesign.dk/rebol/list-view3.r

I should start working on the docs now, so people can test it out 
a bit...

by making a layout manually :-) seriously I need to make that a bit 
easier...

hmm... could you give an example? my brain is a bit fried right now 
:-)

version 0.0.14 uploaded

Changes:
      Fix: Documentation updates
      Fix: Multiple lists accidentally shared the LIST-SIZE value
      New: Custom layout block can now have multiple rows
        at the cost of horizontal resizability
      New: Now using ROW-FACE to store the custom layout block
      New: If HDR-COLS is set to a single word in a block,
        it will take the width of the list view.
      Fix: Code size optimization of navigation functions

      Info: The version between 0.0.12 and 0.0.14 is mysteriously missing... 
      :-)


The demo has been changed a bit to test custom layouts and multiple 
lists.

http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/list-view.r
http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/list-view.html

could also be a news item viewer for Viewtop? I think it's a bit 
of a shame to stuff everything in little dull text files.

there is a little bit about it in the docs

to clear the wait-list

 - This works AFAIK because event-port is a normal port and thus in 
 the wait-list. Everything there is processed on wait. 


So you could remove only this port temporary. Other tricks with that 
behavior: with read-thru rebservices/beer would still be active while 
downloading. maybe a bit less responsive, because a /no-wait introduces 
little delays?   

And you can caugh events before everything else, like this:

So I mean a bit detailed docs about wait-list system ...

If we set the font color to white and move the subface a little bit 
we can see the text.

I don't know of a filter just for that. You could probably use the 
"Other" category for those kinds of entries, to break them out a 
bit.

RRDTool is a pretty cool logging and graphing tool. Very flexible, 
but I think it's a bit difficult to use. a REBOL equivalent that 
would be easier would be cool.

Actually, my idea was to have a FIELD style with DRAWn text without 
having to write my on CARET-TO-OFFSET and OFFSET-TO-CARET as mezzanines. 
Maybe that's a bit over-the-top, though.

since components of the pro package have changed from one version 
to another... its getting a bit tedious to hope everything is properly 
mapped...

No that's not necessary. We actually want to cut down on such bloat. 
The face object needs a bit of plastic surgery.

where is SVG support? What browser it starts from? When most of old 
browsers will be replaced/reinstalled? I think that there is still 
one or even more - let's say two years to see those technologies 
settle a bit ...

It's a bit weird, that m_mtx is 2 dimensional [8][1]. It's like in 
REBOL:
m_mtx: [[1.0] [2.0]Ê[3.0].... [8.0]]
where you could just do:
m_mtx: [1.0 2.0 3.0 ... 8.0]

Actually Melbourne is a bit of a wilderness, in a way.

I would expect you would just modify find-file a little bit to suit 
your purposes.

I think it's pretty good as a composite engine, although a bit slow 
way to draw things.

You can speed it up a little bit by doing this:
view/new/title center-face main: make-face/spec 'box [
  size: 400x400 
  rate: 50 feel: make feel [

I should probably chill out a bit. Been working too hard lately.

hmm... are there circumstances where function! will become undefined 
when using stylize/master? I'm doing a bit of optimization by replacing 
DOES, HAS and FUNC with MAKE FUNCTION!

and then here is async, which is a bit faster. Because /no-wait still 
does some waiting for error-checks. for async you need a library, 
by gabriele, romano or DocKimbel. Or deep knowledge.

These are all ways of specifying the same thing:
view layout [area wrap]
view layout [area para [wrap?: yes]]
view layout [area with [para: make para [wrap?: yes]]]

view layout [area with [append init [para: make para [wrap?: yes]]]]

and you can test a little bit faster by making the area nice and 
thin:
view layout [area 40 wrap]

I'm quitting... it works a tiny bit better than before, but it's 
still odd. Don't wiggle the mouse too much while pressing the button 
:-)

(by the way, which is the best method to convert 32 bit integer to 
4 byte string big endian ?)

Note I added a bit of meat to the do-events topic raised by Graham, 
as an extra answer.

and yes... it would be swell if you rate the answer as the final 
one  (shameless I know, but worth the time and effort Me thinks  
;-)

There is this:
   http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=bignumbers.r

But (from a quick squint) it handles numbers as strings. That may 
be less effective than the usual bignum approach [which, in REBOL 
terms, might be a block of 32-bit binaries]

Strings are probably fine for 12 or 13 digit numbers.

REBOL3 has 64-bit integers, so that is well within range of a native 
REBOL 3 INT.
Is R3 a possibility for your project?

I should have given the example:
    to-binary 33333333

As the above discussion suggests, creating an issue! is a bit of 
a dead end in this case. A binary! is much more usable.....That is 
true in R2 as well as R3.

@Christian E. Thanks for the examples! In the first one, it just 
dawned on me that perhaps Rebol is a stack-based language - a bit 
like Forth et al. Didn't you just put "5" on the stack, then the 
"apply func" simply pops the the stack for its parameters?

Unfortunately, it is a bit hard to explain direct binding to people 
already familiar with lexical or dynamic binding.

yes to "The context of any word is a hidden property.", but "it can 
be changed at any time" is a bit complicated by the fact, that it 
is "immutable", meaning, that you create a new word with a different 
context, when you want it, instead of changing the original

if its an internal (silent) reconstruction we don't bother.
the behavior acts like a change.
a: [obj]
bind a context [obj: 1]
do a
== 1

From my point a view the serie A has bit been modified.

I used to use the term "applicative binding order" for REBOL's binding 
model, but later on Carl started calling it "definitional binding", 
which is a bit less descriptive but sounds better.

I was confused by the insert function in the telnet scheme vs the 
use of INSERT in rebol but I have discovered that
insert port "username" 

does what I was trying to do, looks like I need to sort out the crlf 
issues but I think I am getting somewhere with it now.   

I am also unable to identify the method to disconnect, the telnet 
RFC mentions an "Interrupt Process" code 244, bit I dont see that 
implimented in the code..   Thanks.

trying to compile the code now but the compiler from the site is 
a bit tricky

the name did seem a bit slav... :D

In R3 you have more options for manipulating objects a little bit 
like series, without having to re-make the object, although I'm uncertain 
that you can remove elements from objects. But then you also have 
the map! datatype, which is more suitable for very quick adding and 
removing of key/value pairs.

BrianH said: "But you can create a new object without the field,...."

Sorry to be especially dense, but do you mean create the new object 
from scratch, or based on the old object?  I've seen the examples 
to create new from old and also adding fields, or resetting the value 
of an existing field, but never excluding old fields.


I look forward to more documentation on "map!"; maybe I should move 
to R3.  Last I checked, there was no GUI in R3, even the Windows 
version, despite what the download page says?


One last newbie question for the day - will there be a 64-bit REBOL? 
 I'm thinking my data could get rather large before too long.  Thanks 
to all of you!

todun, also, the structure of the program that you wrote hopefully 
shows that it requires a bit of discipline in organizing REBOL code, 
as it can be extremely free form, and it can be a little frustrating 
around generating VID code, because there is a lot going on in that 
type of code. So learning what the LAYOUT function does, (it simply 
generates a tree of objects, that's all), helps you to handle layout 
data with more confidence.


I didn't write the console version through some kind of convention 
(other than basic formatting), but by knowing how to organize data 
sensibly in REBOL for the needs of the program and how simple it 
is to store and retrieve that from disk. There are dozens of ways 
that program could have been written, each equally as valid as the 
other.

result-answer/text: " "
show result-answer


This will assign a new string to the TEXT facet of the RESULT-ANSWER 
face. What to be careful of here is that every time you pass that 
bit in the code, it is the exact same string (same memory location) 
and not a new string that gets assigned. That means that if something 
is put in there from another location, that memory location will 
no longer be empty, and the content will be shown in RESULT-ANSWER.

therefore in this bit of code:

button-press?: layout [
        ; displays output for user interaction
        result-question: info " "
        result-answer: info " "


two separate strings are also made prior to the LAYOUT function even 
getting the block passed. Depending on how the code that manages 
the INFO faces initializes the face, those two strings can possibly 
be referenced.

Following document might be a bit dated, but it still contains some 
usefull explanation of REBOL core concepts ... http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html

@Sunanda  I see! So the "[" character is simply a hint. Wouldn't 
it have been more intuitive to have used the "]" char - to indicate 
that an open '"[" needs to be closed?? I'm glad that the LISP REPL 
doesn't do this - not the ones that i use anyway :)) But thanks! 
 You've cleared things up a bit....

All the refinements are optional, it's a bit confusing for a beginner 
but otherwise it will be more confusing. Try:  help find

There are lots of refinement. HELP shows the normal usage and then 
the optional refinements and their arguments.

I'm getting TOTALLY confused here! I'm going to have to stop here 
and go study this - including all of you guys' advise - a bit more 
....

It can be done in R2, just a slight bit convoluted:

>> X: make object! [a: 1 b: 2 c: 3]
>> ? X
X is an object of value: 
   a               integer!  1 
   b               integer!  2 
   c               integer!  3 

>> first X
== [self a b c]

>> foreach key next first X [print rejoin [key { -> } get in X key]]
a -> 1
b -> 2
c -> 3

Shame about no feed from Italy ...


Petr .... webcam in Rebol may be a bit ambitious .... we cant even 
get access to real time sound. !

PhilB: then contact Kru, please, form the alliance to push on sound 
a little bit more - maybe Carl has some thoughts in that regard and 
maybe you can help Carl to investigate some possible solutions, dunno 
...