AltME groups: search

Current Altme uses a different directory to the early betas. Likely 
the worlds are still there, just in the old location

Terry: I hope nobody uses Win2k to control any nuclear reactor. Win2k 
does crash and removes files being modified. chkdsk works well, but 
you have to analyse all restored files to figure filenames, and files 
are extended to block boundaries. (had to recover an usb zip disk, 
a nightmare) I don't think AltME is fautly here - I never saw any 
Rebol apps trashing filesystem.

All this conversations are going to become a big confusion. How many 
A B C are reused here.

We know of two G a couple of R(s), Some C(s) [Carl Cyphre]. But Cyphre 
real name is Richard so he can be confuse with R for  Reichart.

It's what I mean. If everybody rename himself with a OLA This world 
will gone to hell !!!

And I am sure C/R doesn't have a double personality.

A few times.

I don't think having OLA(s) is very useful for posting. It is great 
in when a conversation is going on. Like a year ago when we were 
all working towards a new view, and Carl use the OLA to reply. But 
for general postings it doesn't make any sense. IMHO.

ip/prefix prefix stands for the number of bits that are set to one 
in the network. It is a way to partition the address space.

10.10.10.5/32 referes only to the ip-address 10.10.10.5 it is a host 
ip-address not a range for a network

I was just reading in the squid docs that I need to specify for a 
single ip address .. ip/32

;ip address are 32 bits. So when you do a mask comparison 
10.10.10.5 and 255.255.255.255 == 10.10.10.5

ok, I guess I need to read up a bit about this to understand it better.

255.255.255.0 corresponds to a 24 prefix in CIDR notation.

So, it has been for me extremely rare to find it educationally useful. 
However, there are the gems, and things like AGG are shining examples. 
I wil grant you that. (But then, I do not try to understand AGG, 
I just accept it for a masterpiece that it is.)

As I said is not black or white. I think for me is more about freedom 
of information, than process. I can not learn much of a black box. 
With the scientific method I can describe the balck box, but not 
necesarily reconstruct it.

it's a load of crap. who has the resources to go through that? and 
do they really expect to find security holes by doing it?

I have a solution to all those.

For example, we have a source escrow account inside some mountain 
 in Colorado. ;)

Reinvention is a funny thing.

Escrow is good to a point.  Because it involves a legal process to 
access it.

For the most part, I would not want to use a single line of the junk 
source code I see out there. If I had, REBOL would be 10MB binary.

I'm sometimes thinking about, how I should make money of a project 
like Canvas. I could make it close source and make .exe files with 
the SDK, and then maybe sell it to some niche markets. Is it possible 
to make money from it and have it open source at the same time? Any 
ideas?

Of course, for some companies, we use it to negociate a better sale.

Is it possible to make money from it and have it open source at the 
same time?

 Demonstrate where your solution(s) add value and then provide a service 
 (instllation, training, support, customization, etc) that folks need 
 / want to be able to use your "free" software effectively. I've said 
 this to a few people here already, but I've made quite a few dollars 
 selling OpenOffice installation and support to folks ... what's important 
 is the relationship you build with your customer(s); the fact that 
 you can under bid a proprietary solution and still make better margin 
 is just icing on the cake. ;)

Correct. In this case I bundle various "free" components (RebDB, 
SQLite, RebGUI, AbiWord, etc) into a *solution* that people are prepared 
to pay for. My customers know the individual components are freely 
available, what they are paying for is a working application "distro".

thats in euro's not dollars... Man for that money I can buy a complete 
server...

yes true... No Fonts under linux from the Draw dialect... a shame 
realy ;-) But its just runs fine...

The library's from debian are pretty straghtforward..and thus many 
linux distributions should be able to run that too..If not they they 
have a problem and not rebol...

have a look in your directory, see what's there.

yes yes ;-)

but so far none of the vera or arial or sans ttf fonts did show up...However 
rebol does not give me a warnign so it now upto the right font it 
seems..

you need to find a path to your fonts and you can use any ttf font. 
I don't know what YALN(yet another Linux distro) are you running 
;)

It is vectorial font so I guess this shouldn't be a problem but you 
can try other sizes or other fonts??

I think i donit see anything because i dont have any Xfd running..though 
it should be integrated wiith the latest X11 .. mmm.. let me fight 
on this one a little.. Thank for the HINT.. ill let it know if it 
runs (Must get this to work..;-)

Its strange.. I should not be needing to run a fontserver..My desktop 
is already anti-aliased with fonts and so it the rest..But rebol 
still does not display it... mmm It does load the font though..(also 
when i look with an Strace during the execute rebol does read the 
font..) it simply does not display it ..yet! ;-)

>> probe fnt1

make object! [
    name: "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/VeraMono.ttf"
    style: none
    size: 32
    color: 0.0.0
    offset: 2x2
    space: 0x0
    align: 'center
    valign: 'center
    shadow: none
]

Well.. all applications on my linux machine use and anti-aliased 
and truetype fonts....so that config is correct.. But what i try 
or what i run on fonts Linux simlpy doesnt display the font.. It 
loads the font.. (checked that)...but thats it.. just a white field.. 
So .. I give up... ;-(

Any idea if it's possible to get anti-aliased fonts with AltMe beta 
or the Debian View build? Rebol is kinda standing out in a bad way 
on my desktop right now.

nope, if AltME uses standard VID, then AA fonts are still only a 
part of DRAW

the font suckiness varies for me. on some machines large fonts look 
really blocky, like an upscaled bitmap. it's probably more a question 
on which fonts the distribution has installed

It's dark magic. On some Linuxes, the REBOL fonts are really distorted. 
When they're as intended, it's still only old-style Helvetica that's 
not anti-aliased, so they stick out as a sore thumb compared to the 
rest of the system

No, it's just a mess, with several different font systems working 
against eachother - as usual in Linux

isn't there a version string?

echo $OSTYPE display the "type" of OS using tsch shell. 

On a Mac it echoes darwin

or uname -a for more info

in my opinion,  'uname' is more of a standard utility  to identify 
the kernel.

A while ago I tried to install VMware player and it nuked my system. 
Upon investigation, it had 13,000 lines of PERL script for installation 
and configuration. The major part of that was to identify the system 
parts versions and condition...

Each mature Unix application carries around a similar configuration 
system

it's insane. which is why I'm moving away from linux as a dev system

I'm making a few mods, though. Like, redesigning the entire system 
;-)

I think the Ubuntu guys are doing a good job. the problem is that 
there are 20 other organizations that are almost doing the same jobs. 
it's an incredible waste of time and effort.

Well, there's exchange of work. The theory in open source is that 
a certain amount of duplication of work is accepted, because there 
are many volunteers. What bothers me more is that the resulting products 
are so bad

Ironically, our cathedral-designed Syllable project is a full volunteer 
effort

Funding comes from companies, who all want some influence for it, 
so you get a bazaar model

The community decides. That's the nicest part of it, a certain fairness

What's a good linux to install on a Pentium II 300MHz  64MB RAM  
3Gig disk ?  It's for my flatmate to browse the web.

Ok, I've installed Slackware (all the files, apps etc.) onto a Linux 
ext2 partition, marked as Bootable.  But when I reboot, BIOS says 
"Missing operating system" (boot order is CD, C, floppy)

ok...i am a total newbie here.  i am trying to get rebol .r scripts 
to run on a Mandrake linux box, but i just cannot get them to run. 
 they basically only work as text documents.  am i missing something? 
 i installed rebol view, which as i understand it installs core also. 
 i want to be able to doulble-click the .r file and have it run. 
 it works in windows.  thanks in advance.

the wonderful world of linux... what I had to do was to make scripts 
as shellscripts with the shebang line at the top with the path to 
the rebol executable. there is a mention of this in the Rebol/Core 
manual here: http://rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-2.html

This should work across the various desktops.

there could be a number of things wrong... a likely issue is a logfile 
that has gone way too big.

I love all those distro an RPM madness to just get an update to one 
package on RH... mabe someone can help. I'm running a rather old 
RH 7.2 (but it works good) and now need to update the Perl package. 
I downloaded the RRM of it and of course it has zillions of dependencies.

And it needs a new glibc version. But there is a circular dependency. 
I can't update glibc, as it conflicts with glibc-common of a lower 
version. Updating glibc-common doesn't work because it's required 
by the current glibc.

How can I do this update? And I need several GLIBCs, as it's a central 
component, that need to be installed in parallel, right? How to do 
this?

in your case though... updating the glibc is a bit risky, i remember 
completely trashing a version of RH (or was it Mandrake?) by just 
a glibc update. it was a long time ago though.

Yep, I ran RH around 6.1 - 7.2. It has no automatic updating and 
updating core components like GLiBC is extremely dangerous. From 
the sound of it, you're almost guaranteed to destroy your system. 
There's no supported way to install multiple versions of a package

Can a new redhat be installed chrooted?

The browser can only run CGI scripts through a web server, not directly.

Yeah, I was a little surprised that such a script could run at all 
from the console.

can you make a folder where everyone can write, and create a file 
from cgi? that should show which user.

i would set log-path to %/tmp/, make sure /tmp/sqlite.log does not 
exist  and give it a last try.

Gabriele - not sure it is a typical log file. It is just file sqlite 
driver writes via write/new/append into current-dir, if not set oterwise 
....

it's not rebol that can't write because of -s, it's the apache user 
not having permissions (from what you describe). generally apache 
never has write access to cgi-bin because that's a security risk. 
you can give it access to that single file (still risky) or move 
the file to /var/log for e.g. where apache keeps its other log files.

hmm, now I tried su apache, and my sestem tells me, that there is 
no such an user. Could that be a problem? That server was set-up 
for me some 3 years ago, so I don't remember properly, how it was 
configured ....

setting permission to executable for a directory allows you to enter 
it

group "s" on a dir  says that by default; all  files and dirs created 
below me will have the same  group ownership/perms that I have.

thanks ... the problem probably was, that for a directory, there 
needs to be "execute" bit set, or you can't enter it ...

write access means you can add files to the dir, but to write on 
them you need to be able to access files in the dir which is the 
execute bit. i think you can probably use the touch command to create 
new files on dirs with rw- (not sure though) but for complete access 
to a dir you need rwx.

to restate: with --x you can read/write a file in the dir (provided 
the file is readable/writeable, and you know the name), but you cannot 
list the dir contents, and you cannot add/remove files.

my linux troubles (this is longer)


I'm pretty frustrated at this moment, maybe somebody can help me...


I'm linux newbie, I'm using it for 6 months or so. I've installed 
Ubuntu for my girlfriend and it works OK. So I decided to install 
linux for me too. I've got Athlon X64 computer, so I tried 64bit 
version of Ubuntu. But you cannot run 32bit programs under 64bit 
Linux, so no REBOL or AltMe. OK, I can live with 32bit linux, no 
problem. So I installed MEPIS. It's not bad, it has got media support 
but...it's KDE.


I never knew anything about KDE vs. Gnome vs. whatever wars, I just 
don't care, but day after day I found KDE to be bloated, slow and 
buggy. Compared to elegance of Ubuntu on my girfriend's computer 
I decided that I just don't like KDE, I don't like all that menus 
where I'm always lost, long loading times, that awful blue theme, 
childish icons and everything K-labeled. Every window and every button 
on KDE looks so BIG compared to windows GUI, it's just a waste of 
screens's space. So I tried different window managers and found Xfce, 
icebox and some other small and fast window managers. But running 
MEPIS with different window manager than KDE was not optimal so I 
decided to remove MEPIS and install xubuntu. Everything was OK and 
I had xubuntu instaled.


One day later I managed to exchange my gfx card. I was using Matrox 
Millenium 2MB PCI card and exchanged it for 3D labs Banshee 16MB 
PCI card (I know that both cards are somehow underpowered for my 
computer but that's OK, I don't play any 3d games, so I don't need 
some new card). I've booted into Windows and everything was OK. I 
can even select resolution better than 1024x768 (because that's not 
optimal resolution for 21" monitor :-) So I restarted and booted 
into xubuntu. x-server didn't start. 


As I said, I'm linux newbie so I don't want to mess with some config 
files so I said to myself OK, I reinstall it, it's just one day old 
installation, no problem. I've booted the live-cd, grub let me choose 
resolution of 1280x1024, I booted xubuntu and - it was running in 
640x480. Yes, I had the choice to change resolution - but only to 
320x240. I tried ubuntu (gnome) and it was the same. ubuntu's x-server 
probably does not support my banshee gfx card. I tried MEPIS also 
and - it worked! I can boot mepis 3.3.1 live cd in 1024x768 (but 
not more - with windows, I can go up to 1920x1440). But when I boot 
mepis, I do see that KDE desktop thing and it makes me feel sick 
(hell, even windows seem to be more fun to use than KDE for me!).


So, what now? I cannot use windows only (1. i don't like it :) 2. 
it's got problems of its own - it cannot download files bigger than 
cca 1MB without error. Probably some driver problem but I still haven't 
found a sollution. this is not problem on linux) and I don't like 
KDE. I know that there's one sollution - to buy relatively new pci-x 
n-vidia gfx card and problems may be gone. but that's not what I 
want to do. That 3dfx banshee is good enough for me, I just want 
some fast and small OS running on it.


Maybe I'm just missing a computer that can boot in 15 seconds into 
full GUI enviroment (yes, my old Amiga :)

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
but its ugly, i usually need several tries.
keep a backup of /etc/X11/xorg.conf .

May also work to get that file from another distro, eg that mephis, 
and overwrite it. the resolution-stuff  etc is in that file.

For debian it looks easy for most programms. SInce ubuntu is a debian 
that trick may work too: https://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html#id292233

Rebolek, yes there is a 64 bit version

How do i start a rebol-daemon from ssh? i usually use screen, but 
this server  lacks it.

Nevermind... It not running had more to do with me being a complete 
newb at Linux than anything else.

(Being so used to Windows, I didn't realize you had to use "./rebol" 
rather than just "rebol" to start it up)

I set up a connection to MySQL from linux using MyODBC drivers back 
in 2002.  I'm sure if you wanted to you could get an ODBC set up 
running that would allow you to use Firebird from Linux.

I was using a Linux version of Command to set it up.

I know I had REBOL connecting to MySQL via ODBC on Linux...  I was 
playing with WINE heavily at the time though so I might have been 
running a windows version of REBOL on Linux to do it. ;-)

I liked KDE when it started with version 1.0, then it started to 
look like a PlayMobil/Lego Desktop, now its upto perfect and leaves 
gnome far behind, not only based on GUI but also based on pratical 
use ;-)... But it still eats a damm lot of resources... you need 
to tune , but thats fun ;-)

My view is that KDE has always had better internals, but Gnome has 
a better interface

Gnome vs. KDE: I gave up on KDE ages ago. It has pretty good underpinnings, 
but the philosophy of cramming every possible feature into the GUI 
just makes it a nightmare to use. I don't know about KDE4, so I won't 
say much about that.

Gnome has a much better interface, but still a far way to go. It's 
exactly the opposite of KDE. I wish the two would go together and 
create a new desktop, based on KDE's underpinnings and Gnome's GUI.

Well, you don't ... rebol does not support sending email using sendmail, 
but

if you have a version with command-shell support ( call ) you can 
probably create the command line to call sendmail yourself ... I 
don't know how to do this, though.

Downloaded vmplayer, and a Fedora 6 core image.  Run the Fedora, 
and then downloaded Rebol core for Linux libc

or on a side note,try this new distro    http://www.ulteo.com/main/download.php

Alan, I'm running this under Windows so need to find a Vmware appliance 
..

Ok, found a Mandriva appliance .. downloading it.

I found another site that said I should do this:

yum install compat-libstdc++-33


which I did .. and after a few things printed to the screen .. it's 
just sitting there :(

...sorry .. no experience of yum ....I'm as new to Linux as you ...I 
installed Ubuntu desktop as a dual-boot on my XP machine.

I managed to get a Suse livePC running .. and Rebol runs.

Maybe I should use a real Linux rather than a virtualised one :(

Graham, most of the times if you have a libstdc++.so.<someotherversion> 
 you can just symlink to .5 and REBOL will work.

probably because you didn't start it from a shell. since it wasn't 
tied to a shell, it can't go anywhere when you leave the desktop 
and just shuts down.