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There isn't a way to do sound input directly from rebol is there?

Can any one help me reply to this question (received via REBOL.org's 
feedback form)?
Thanks!
<<
Where can I find more Hex Code like in psg-ay-3-8910-study.r

Please point me to a tool that I can use for development of  Sound 
Code for the AY-3-8910 where I end up with Hex Code that I can then 
load into EPROMs which would drive the AY-3-8910. Thanks for any 
help.

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=psg-ay-3-8910-study.r
>>

I got the data using a free MSX emulator (openMSX). The music come 
from the game "Auf wiedersehen Monty".

You can use a "dump PSG" functionality in openMSX to get the raw 
data (values of the registers of the PSG).

You can find lot of roms (games) for the msx wich contain cool musics 
and effects for the AY PSG on www.planetemu.net

Beware, these roms are not freeware even if you can download them 
freely.


Another way (i have not tried), is to use VortexTracker at http://bulba.at.kz/
(see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYdIqcqgkPMfor a demo)

wich is well designed to compose an manipulate raw data for the AY-* 
PSG.
I think many samples are given too.

such a bunch of idiots.  I removed Vista... after it corrupted itself 
on bootup.

last month... after more than a year of using it.

I read that you could start it from teh command line and get it save 
in .wav but I could not get it to work..


THere are a lot of annyoing things about vista...but I have it on 
my wife's laptop and I'm forced to use it now and again..

no
I'll have a look..

I do not see it..keep getting references to  a sound blaster card..

Is there a web site? or an other name?

ICarii, I just quickly tried your synth2.r. It plays the song here 
on Linux, and matches the score. I wonder, though, how you are going 
to scale the program. Rebol's sound port is currently underpowered, 
and Rebol isn't fast at number crunching which is necessary for audio 
work. I don't like the idea of waiting for hours for a full song 
to render.. I would be looking for an audio processing system to 
hook into rebol.

R3 build-song speed (without optimization) plus write to disk is 
1810ms vs R2 of 2862ms. So even without optimizing in R3 there is 
a large difference in performance.

ahh thx - re copy - that was an artifact from the first iteration 
of the function where i was using take in a loop.

ICarii, have a look at my PM-101 http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=pm-101.r

i was thinking of prebuilding and saving envelope shapes and modifying 
the tone like a mask

I was also working on tracker-like program (not published). I had 
a simple format for notes there that was similar to sequencers - 
I was using tuple! for timing information, it may be better than 
having two blocks, one for notes and one for timing.

i intend to fully reproduce sheet music so the format is still a 
little in teh air at the moment

the next version of synth is using a top/bottom stave block with 
separate timings

its taking me a little longer than i thought as im having to learn 
acoustic physics :P

I should have a drumsynth for R3 somewhere, I'll try to find it.

ok - im trying to calc the optimal intersection point where 3 different 
frequency sine waves create the highest complex wave -
w1: freq 440.0Hz  w2: freq 530.0Hz w3: freq 720.0Hz
i was using: sine (90 * w2 / w3) + sine (90 * w1 / w3) + 1.0

this was under the assumption that the greatest cumulative distance 
from 0 would be at the 90degree mark from the highest freq wave - 
unfortunately this is not the case :(

does anyone have a nice (or not too nasty) formula that will find 
the optimum value? - i will post this in maths too

yes - it is a huge time save when i go to do loudness balancing

just a note to Sound. Some time ago, when Cyphre tried to do media 
player in REBOL for us, he complained about some bugs in smooth playback. 
Carl released C code for the sound system in REBOL - this is some 
2 - 3 pages of C code (mostly wrappers) IIRC? Maybe we could fix 
few things for next R2 release?

sounds good - now all we need is a coding sound engineer ;)

As you add together a larger number of waves, you will find the maximum 
amplitude is typically much less than the total of all the wave amplitudes. 
It might be easier to generate all the samples of the complex wave 
(using decimal!/float), keeping track of the maximum value, then 
scaling it to 8 or 16 bit integers afterwards. It would be nice to 
have a precise mathematical way of calculating the maximum peak values 
in advance, though...

yes - that would be nice.  Ill have a hunt about see what i can find. 
 I know a couple of sound engineers who might know

it shows frenquencies for a sample, but i don't remember how i did 
that, i can post the demo

of course - thats about a month away at the rate of my current project 
:)

you have to load a wav sample

Wow - first use of CP (alias of COPY) I ever saw. I override CP to 
be a unixiod file copy function.

I see a little graph :)

yep, it show a graph with some frequencies, don't remember why...

I've got an old script which uses FMOD library to show a spectrum 
window in rebol while a sound is playing. It's a Windows DLL but 
it works in wine.

 do-thru http://anton.wildit.net.au/rebol/audio/fmod/play-rebol-sound.r

a list to discuss about liquid Data flow engine.

liquid - a whisky group? :-)

if I understand it correctly, it is also about events ... in such 
a case - it is wise to build it upon existing event model? I mean 
- maybe something like liquid should be part of native level of REBOL, 
or is that OK as it is?

I have a data stream engine built using liquid.

I was really hoping for a release this week (it is ready codewise) 
but will not be able to document it properly, so it will be useless 
and will gobble time away, with me trying to explain how to use it 
!

Max, just add some really simple examples. How about a lazy evaluation 
example? Or a way to import an XLS sheet and have it calc by liquid?

a good example is a graphic processing network.

all of this stuff should be online within a few days.

including the imminent liquid release on rebol.org.  but I want to 
finish a tutorial, which will serve as both a final test and a learning 
tool for new users.

I am hoping that this will help adoptance a bit.

I am quite quiet these days about my stuff because I am working a 
lot on the release itself.  making docs, example codes, completely 
rebuilt the steel site, etc.

Hi Maxim, 
are there liquid pumps?

As an example, imagine a layout with 2 input values, and 2 outputvalues, 
which depend on both inputs, e.g. input 2 numbers, and get  product 
and sum.

Now if I change the value of 1 input field, the new value would flow 
to both output fields. As far as I understood liquid so far, I now 
need another way to notify those 2 output fields, that there are 
new values waiting. And they have to actively get the new data.

Now add a pump, which pumps the data into the system, so that dependent 
!plugs automatically are recalculated.

Is this possible now? What do you think about adding this?

all you do is tell the dependent plugs that they are "Stainless" 
 (setting stainless?: true) and a plug is never left dirty.

the nice thing is that in the same network, you can have a mix and 
match, since they all are lazy internally,  but the stainless are 
told to request their data right after being set dirty.

Reichart, that would be my fault. It's done with DRAW. I developed 
a prototype, which was then refined by Maxim for practical use. http://www.hmkdesign.dk/rebol/cool/cool-widgets.r

new release of liquid: 

to download the file:          http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/download-a-script.r?script-name=liquid.r

for some docs on liquid:   http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/liquid/index.html

micheal, the !plug quickstart is a good way to begin understanding 
the basics:


http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/liquid/plug/plug-quickstart.html

>> do http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/download-a-script.r?script-name=liquid.r
connecting to: www.rebol.org
Script: "LIQUID - core dataflow programming engine." (4-Feb-2007)
** Script Error: slim has no value
** Near: slim/register [

this is not a bug... liquid is a slim module.  you must have slim 
loaded first

slim is about managing the internals ... both technically and politically. 
 its about providing a unique and consistent code model to allow 
tools to wrap around this.

oops  typed a bit too quickly...	

do %slim.r
slim/open 'liquid 0.6.4

So that's all that's needed ?

A problem with all these different module managers and include systems 
is that there is ignorance of what they actually do. When you post 
code like the above, I have no idea what it's going to do with the 
files, how they are going to be arranged on my harddisk etc., and 
what global words are going to be defined.

My old INCLUDE system and the new one I've been working on also suffer 
from this "gap of understanding".

I think the answer is a GUI option which shows in clear diagrams 
what is going on.

my library engine is fully documented for 3 years now.  a FULL reference.

No, I mean the diagrams form part of the GUI (when a "show GUI" option 
is selected).

I am saying it's better for us to integrate a clear image / animation 
of what's about to happen, and what's happening, within the user 
interface.

oops  typed a bit too quickly...	

do %slim.r
liquid: slim/open 'liquid 0.6.4

A GUI, when a hypothetical "GUI" option is chosen.

if I say that a gui manager was needed... every reboler on this list 
would complain that its too complicated and would be scared that 
the lib manager does things behind the scenes.

its more like what value it adds ;-)  but the core featues are:
-loading external code, but in a managed way

-path resolution, allows you to put libs in one or many folders, 
a part from code and reuse.
-version verification.

-enforcing of a standard, where all the code is wrapped in one context 
and the use of 'set is illegal (nothing gets bound to global context)

-allowing the user of a lib the choice of exposing what words he 
wants in his code.

if you only want to use slim for testing out liquid, I suggest to 
follow the quickstart, it should get you started in a few minutes 
without fuss.

ah... just wanted to announce a little milestone of liquid useage 
 :-)   In the current instance of liquidator, event handling and 
window refresh have been successfully decoupled  :-)  this means 
I can refresh based on a timer, instead of based on input events... 
 so I can now properly scale interactively of the view based on its 
weight without even removing one event from the view  :-)


you'd say... but we can already do that... well not exactly... yes 
 you can prevent the call to 'show in your mouse handling... but 
can you prevent the whole processing occurence when you are interactivally 
editing an item?  hehe .


because of liquid's lazy computing, the actual processing is delayed 
until needed, and the show will only occur after this.   so I can 
call update 30 times a second, and it will still only call show when 
things have realy changed, inversly, I can change the data 100 times 
a second, and only the real number of calls to update will actually 
cause a data refresh of all dependent data which changed (like the 
draw block :-)

liquid is a type independent engine.

each node has a multitude of connectivity options.

for example, if i have a collection of nodes, each of them, relative 
to a string

all the strings form a rebol script

i have to create myself a nex node or delete it, exact ?

you create a new node, with the new line of text and link it AT the 
offset which you want , and then just ask the master node for its 
text, and it will give you the new output. (if that is what its processing 
does)

so:

node_a = "a string"      -->	\
				 | node_c.output = "a string of text"
node_b = "of text"        -->	/

but if i insert a node between a and b, node c is not informed ?

if you then insert node_d after node_a:
node_a = "a string"      -->	\

node_d =" ... "             -->	 |  node_c.output = "a string ... 
of text"
node_b = "of text"        -->	/

and now a more harder question

if i insert a newline in the text of node_a

how can i split node_a in 2 nodes ?

is there a trick to  auto split a node foolowing a specific rule 
?

that management is up to you.  liquid is a core kernel.  its not 
a language-driven... on purpose.

I could have waisted time on some kind of generic node manager, but 
even after a year of work, it would still be useless... cause nodes 
are about processing.

liquid is a hybrid of storage, association, synchronisation, dependencies, 
and some in between.  it does all of those things using the same 
core node, and allows you to build any kind of manager, or dependecy 
model over it.

like  a node which has "one" and another which has 1

we have to nodes A et B

when A is modified B is updated

all members of a pipes are equal owners of the same value.

when B is modified, A must be updated

and its all VERY stable.  I've already got a view engine running 
the exact thing you describe where a scroll bar updates a field and 
vice versa... although one is a decimal and the other a string.

i think i could work an a new concept of rebol script editor with 
liquid

with a draw engine

liquidator my current project will change how we can develop apps. 
 its not just a "code" editor... its a data editor.

well depens, This is a 14 year old project finally comming to fruition 
 :-)

well, I'm happy that a few of you are starting to come out in anticipation 
(some in private  :-)  this means my platform will have appeal for 
many of us and we will be able to start a real rebolution.

in easy drawer, i use a little this concept

don't know had a lot of issues dragging thing around... but in liquid, 
this stuff doesn't even have to be coded... and its all uniform the 
same generic api for all data... which is why it pays off in the 
end... you stop trying to design the actual dependencies, and start 
working on the algorythms.

Darn... I will be giving a session on liquid there, but especially 
will be demoing liquidator publicly.

you'd have had the chance to get a first hands on trying out the 
interactive node editing.

there will be a streaming video for the confs, i hope

and u will nost post a first version of your interactive node editing 
tool before devcon ?

if you're interested, yes, I am willing to share it.  I have a good 
deal of it done (I've already shown it to someone else already)

but its not yet actually able to DO anything.  I'm at the fledgling 
days of optimising the gfx engine for the graph editor.  The node 
creation, dragging and linking are done, (all graphically) and even 
already detect cycles, so you can't connect nodes in such a way as 
to get a dependency cycle  :-)

I will post a little note on this list, when I am ready to give out 
a first demo of liquidator maybe next week.

the layers things is very powerfull, but is giving me a few design 
headaches.