AltME groups: search

Not yet, as R3 is a bit of a moving target. Most R2 code will run 
in R3 if it doesn't use any GUI or port code. Part of the migration 
strategy has been the R2/Forward stuff, which allows you to write 
code in a more R3-like way in R2. Plus, we are backporting some of 
the native enhancements that are additive rather than changing, like 
SELECT on objects.

We have a few plans for R2 enhancement, mostly the View installer 
on Windows, but for the most part we are just backporting enhancements 
from R3 whenever we can and they are backwards compatible. Bug fixes 
and additions, no big changes, that is the policy. R2 is in backwards-compatibility 
mode as a rule.

I can't find the 2.7.8 download - anyone have a link - windows here.

one indicator: IE 8 (which is not my default now since I moved to 
K-mleon) runs VIEW 2.7.8 as a right-click option using RUN - but 
download with IE8 and run from Explorer file view correctly triggers 
a request to authorize due to no "valid" digital signature for MS 
- yet this MS alert fails to trigger when run after download using 
K-meleon browser (yet no issue after K-meleon downloads CORE 2.7.8 
)

this is a K-Meleon Windows browser gift  - maybe sometimes smaller/faster 
is not better ... KMeleon is writing to a USB ext drive and IE8 is 
writing to an internal HD ... sometimes KM is writing the larger 
VIEW exe intact, sometimes not.  This may account for some recent 
"bad" ZIP's from my x-plane Flightsim community.  Yuch.  Most of 
 those x-p guys always zip up all their Win indexing .Thumb or hidden 
Mac files - and sometimes they have accumulated both from working 
on a Win "airplane" on their Mac. So I am used to annoying ZIP's 
for that hobby ... but this is TOO annoying.

2.7.8.2.5 seems to start a lot faster (than 2.7.7.2.5).

RobertS, yes, it's a good idea to check what filesystem is on your 
USB drive.

I find the technical arguments for leaving out /Library very hard 
to believe. I suspect this is a case of RT pulling a Microsoft, by 
making design decisions subordinate to business considerations

2.7.8 turned out to have to be a minimal release, due to outside 
constraints. That means it's time to talk about 2.7.9.

2.7.7 also turned out to have to be a minimal release at the time. 
It's hard to budget time for major native changes in R2, partly due 
to business constraints (who is paying for this work? noone that 
I know of, and adding Library to Core removes a revenue source without 
replacing it with another), and partly due to the nature of the codebase 
itself.

rebview278 still fails when run in a non-X environment. So `Change 
"bad face in screen pane" issue on non-X env boot` was not done.

That seemed to be a business consideration a year ago, so I was hoping 
it carried some weight

Andreas, the changes doc wasn't updated yet. Most of the native changes 
that didn't have checkmarks next to them weren't done. This was a 
minimal release, so some stuff got put off to 2.7.9. Give me a moment 
and I will try to list the changes in that list that were in this 
release.

No, it doesn't work on my systems, and I've discussed it extensively 
a year ago

Isn't it just a cut&past of code then? Max few hours work?

Diffs from the old preliminary changes doc to the actual 2.7.8 release 
(that I know about):

- No installer changes yet (my bad, I didn't have time to do them)
- SINGLE? is LAST? instead
- RESOLVE is a (slow) mezzanine for now, not native

- Don't know about what the Command boot problem was or whether it 
was fixed
- No HTTP fixes yet
- No X fixes yet

- ASSERT and APPLY are still mezzanine, and ASSERT is still rather 
bad
- No FOREACH setword support yet
- SET-ENV native (with limits)
- Delay sound subtask creation (whatever that means)
- RUN function uses 'shell access in SECURE
- FIND and SELECT on objects
- FUNCT /extern option, SPEED? and DT

- Some fixes to bugs in RAMBO that I don't know since RAMBO is down

Petr, it's not even a concrete problem for me anymore if Cheyenne 
now works properly. What keeps getting to me are the broken promises 
that destroy my planning and my trust

I hope that the "Command boot problem" will be fixed in 2.7.8, it 
was one of the biggest regression in 2.7.7 (IIRC, it was causing 
scripts encapped with a /Command kernel to crash on start).

BrianH: the problem was seen on Windows, not sure about Linux 2.7.7, 
but I can confirm that the problem hasn't showed up on Linux 2.7.8. 
For the script, I have one from a customer showing up the problem, 
I need to shrink it and test if again first.

continued from REBOL3! group.


they where not listed in RAMBO... I was just lucky to be online with 
Carl and it got fixed in a beta version of 2.7.7 in one afternoon 
with cyphre giving a more robust fix the day after.


 He also had the fix to another annoying issue which makes first item 
 to follow a space in a text to affect the transparency.  the more 
 spaces the darker it gets.  his even affects other items in a text 
 ends with spaces ! 

though I wonder if that ended up in the 2.7.8 release ' :-/

oops... "his even affects other items in a text ends with spaces 
!"


== this even affects other items (like a box) if it follows a text 
which ends with spaces!

I discovered the bug while typing in a text field and the color of 
the field changed whenever I typed in a space!


It took me a while to realize it was a problem in AGG and not in 
my code... :-)

And I would like to see a moveable window for dates

A 50 year window is not just good enough

correcting the agg bugs in r2 ? i would like antialiasing better 
fonts more readable less bug around the handling of font fixed etc... 
but as it just conserns my particalr and singular needs and as noone 
likes me i think i can forget it .... a bugfix to agg matrix  would 
be  nice too .. I know i'm such an egoistic being etc ...

Especially if you can turn area-tc into a generalised rich text area

give me glyph size to pixel size or an automated internal way to 
composite text on a line having different size and bang ritch text 
area will be possible ...

the source is correct.. there is just a big string wirh many "test" 
lines which is used in test :)

Just remembered: The reason R3's LS wasn't backported to R2 was because 
its behavior wasn't settled yet. However, since there have been no 
changes in it for more than a year, and it's just a console-level 
formatting function, there should be no reason not to include it. 
In the meanwhile the R2/Forward version works fine.

>> o: context [test: 3]
>> a: o
>> :a/test
== 3

I think Peter might be asking about this sort of usage case:
     o: context [test: 3]
     a: 'o
     b: 'test

    o/:b   ;; this works
    == 3 
    :a/:b  ;; this fails
    ** Script Error: Cannot use path on word! value
    ** Near: :a/:b

    get in get a b   ;; this works, but it is hardly elegant
    == 3

I thought :a/b is a get-path! as a whole?

Here's my issue though I'm still running 2.7.5

>> f: func[][1]                
 
>> o: make object! [my-func: :f
]
>> b: reduce ['my-func :f]     
 
== [my-func func [][1]]

>> :o/my-func
== 1

>> :b/my-func
== 1


As you can see the value is being evaluated when using a "get-path!". 
Rebol3 simply presented the unevaluated value which is what I had 
expected.

Then yjou did not notice, that in R3, it is a different datatype.

Graham, also check to see that a right mouse/copy works. I've seen 
cases where the Ctl-C stops working but right mouse does (?)

it might be windows 7 specific since I've never had a problem with 
rebol copy/paste on XP.  
they changed a lot of APIs in vista/7 . 

Altme is a different story though.

one thing to look out for in view (in any face using the caret and 
standard focus mechanism) is that when windows are closed, they do 
not unfocus their fields.  this has bitten me quite a few times which 
made other key handlers seem like they where dead.


this is why you should always call unfocus when you open or close 
a window in view.

How about including a few common parse rules ... such as digit, digits, 
alpha alphanumeric in the standard build.  Adds nothing really.to 
size.

That's a good idea. Should be part of R3 as well.

Checking the Prevx support forum, it appears that they block pasting 
to applications to prevent clipboard monitoring. R2.7.6 is probably 
in their whitelist. Someone with a Prevx license needs to report 
that they are blocking 2.7.8, so they can add it to their whitelist.

In particular, they block all apps not in their whitelist any time 
a "secured" web browser is open.

a secured web browser??  do you mean a https site is open?

Nice, a tool that prevents you from using your computer, unless you 
tell them that you really want to

I installed it because I'm too cheap to buy a virus scanner

No, I mean any web browser that the Prevx plugin is installed in, 
when Prevx is running. That's what they call a "secured browser". 
If Prevx is running, it restricts clipboard use to apps it has whitelisted.

Why would you buy a virus scanner, when there are so many good free 
ones?

I haven't bought a virus scanner in my life

Ah. Well, I've found MSE to be good enough, with Malwarebytes as 
a backup. No charge for either.

I haven't installed a virus scanner in my life on my own machines

My Cerebrus wasn't really a virus scanner .. if that's what you meant

So it wasn't a misspelling of Cerberus?

I guess it's a matter of choice how one spells things and also better 
to avoid other products with the same name but different spelling.

Yes, it was to search for viruses but I think it was because there 
was a particular flurry of some viruses at that time so I thought 
it would be easy enough to add ...

Good, then my record is clean: I've never run a virus scanner in 
my life :-)

A few facts

Nenad is showing a demo

hope you going to a pub with a good internet connection ... thanks 
for the updates.

Bas, any links to what was discussed when we were asleep and on a 
different continent?

Do we need a RED group .. like the Boron group?  Doc, where are you! 
 ?

Hi guys, I've spent a great time at the conference (and after also) 
with the people present. A big thank to Bas and Kaj for organizing 
this event, it was really nice meeting you all (pity that Robert 
couldn't been there to present RMA's GUI). The Boron's OpenGL demo 
was impressive (Star Trek's Enterprise ship), I'm looking forward 
to see the dialect used for that.


 I'm currently preparing the slides I've presented to put them online. 
 Should be done in the next hour.

Btw, I'm currently connecting from the train on the road back to 
Paris at 200km/h using the train's wireless network! (I guess it's 
using a satellite connection, because latency is high and upload 
speed very very low). Nice technological achievement anyway...if 
only the train could get to destination without being, on average 
20mn late, that would be even greater! ;-)

Cheyenne presentation slides are available here: http://cheyenne-server.org/blog.rsp?view=25

There aren't much slides because the focus was on the coding demo.


Demo files won't be added until I get home, no way to maintain a 
SFTP connection long enough from here to upload them to Cheyenne 
site.

Years ago I had a bog slow connection and AltME was the only communication 
system that kept working

I've been using Cheyenne for a few years now, but I learned several 
things from Nenad's presentation

In the country of wine, we have a lot ! ;)

Slide 5: yes, I guess they are looking for a savior. I was on the 
boat too until yesterday (among the sick ones), when I jumped into 
the water to try to reach an island nearby. ;-)

since => for,
an happy => a happy

Oh really? It seems quite responsive from here. I'll add a PDF version.

Linda & tuple-space are ways to solve the shared data synchronization 
problem, but they seem too costly for local usage (but should work 
well on a LAN I guess).

I just see a "loading .." where the slides are

Doc - is Red kind of continutaiton of C#, or a different aproach?

Wait a few seconds, I'll change the way it is showed (using images), 
should work better.

R#? Not at all. A new approach, using compilation instead of interpretation.

no ... I think that means it's working.  Image is a star flashing 
away

Ok done, just reload the page, you should see a PDF link below the 
slides.

A web based BBS?

I'm thinking about using Google Groups...I'll do a review of possible 
options in the next days to decide.

spam can be a problem on google groups .. not sure if that is still 
the case

Twitter: I'll send a welcome message :-)

Carl has written a number of languages now .. .commercial ones, doc 
.. I don't know

I don't think my announcement will change anything for R3 development. 
In fact, it might even attract more people to R3, while waiting for 
a working Red version. ;-)

The last time i looked at Paul Graham's arc, that seemed to be stalled 
as well.  the point is that this is a huge undertaking for any single 
person

They can be complementary. Red is really limited (according to the 
slides), so mixed language projects could be appropriate as long 
as Red's syntax is a strict subset.

So, developers will have to choose where they want to go ... and 
there's a limited pool of rebol developers

It would even be possible to extend R3 with a Red dialect.

Graham - developers can't affect R3 Core development, not in public 
enough manner. So Red might be a testbed for R3 too ... and who knows, 
maybe Carl will be motivated to restart R3 development :-)

the last time there was a language fork .. RT made some announcements 
to try and make rebol more attractive

Pekr: Interpreted as well and written in C, so no possible code re-use 
for Red. But I must admit that if I hadn't choosed the compilation 
path, I would have jumped into Boron to contribute. There's some 
good potential there for a serious R2 open source clone.

someone should get the info to Carl, maybe he will stop breeding 
chicken and start coding R3 again :-) (just a joke - I have nothing 
about breeding animals :-)

R3 also does not have a 64 bit path mapped for it

We're a bit OT here, don't want to hijack the group.

Can't merge with Boron while it has a *GPL license.

Looks like Rebol is undergoing a renaissance via open source forks

Pekr, I would expect you to pick a more decent and constructive approach. 
How did you find out you had the right to decide? Did you ask anybody?

Ladislav - what are you talking about here? What is decent and constructive 
about the conference name? Are we going to be censored here, or what? 
This is really starting to be crazy. Look at the Amiga - there is 
AmigaOS, Aros, MorphOS, UAE, there was Amithlon .... and I expect 
ppl meeting at various accassions, to share the spirit of the Amiga, 
although there were some infights between the groups.


Now to REBOL. Last DevCon (Italian Devcon was not even called RebCon 
- http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/) was held in 2007 in Paris? 
Then there was one online meeting coordinated by Nick (?), and there 
was an attempt to organise DevCon in Prague, in two consecutive years. 
Carl decided not to attend, from various reasons, so we decided not 
to push the idea of the conference forward.


Then I remember the chat of the community about the topic, thinking 
about organising some REBOL related conference in Amsterodam, simply 
to allow ppl to meet, not necessarily being dependant upon RT attending 
the conference.


And now guys organised ReborCon. I know it was initially related 
to Syllable, and REBOL clones. But - if you read the website carefully, 
the topics are much broader - it already mentions topics for R2, 
R3, Boron, Red. So - what is the problem here? To abandon non official 
REBOL topics on conference, which is called RebCon, because somehow 
imaginary, RT might have the right to "own" the conference name?


Shouldn't we be in fact gratefull, that Doc did not abandon REBOL 
ultimately, but starts his own project he believes in, which in the 
end can benefit for both sides - Red and R3? Is there really NO right 
for me to even not suggest a possible conference name?


The Rebcon conference name was just first out-of-my-head suggestion. 
I can come-up with some others - ReClone, ReCon, or even ReDCon (Rebol 
Developers Conference), and if you give me some time, I might come 
with something even more sophisticated marketing-wise ...

Kaj picked a name he found appropriate. I wrote my opinion. You did 
not do anything I could consider constructive.

As I recall there was going to be a Rebol3 demo too ..until Robert 
pulled out

Do you change a name because some one pulls their talk??

Can we have a separate Disclaimers group?

I downloaded both, but the BoronGL application does not start. When 
I look in the console, it presents its help information there. I 
then went into the application bundle and started boron-gl there 
and only then was a console presented, which crashes, when typing 
DO.