AltME groups: search

The best thing would probably be to "use them" to our advantage. 
Web plugin is imo still strategic product, that will lower the barrier 
to give REBOL apps a try. Then we can see, if we can make some VID 
to web compiler ....

the biggest general opurtunity these days for language is good concurrency 
/ multicore stuff .  GUI is moving to browser, but REBOL can do a 
lot (or more) on the server side / logic / bots ... etc

Janko - I am not sure users do care nor distinguish, if some things 
runs as a plugin or as a JS app :-) It is just agenda of web developers, 
who try to kill stuff as Flash, Silverlight. R3's GUI might not be 
competition to web development, but it might have its place in some 
rich-apps development, embedded sphere, etc. I would not dismiss 
such potential ...

I have oppinion the winning "webapps" will be the ones that give 
the best in browser experience. Try using a whole website in flash 
/ silverlight and tell me if youwon't go mad.. riht click doesn't 
work , scroll buttons work strangely, open in new tab doesn't work, 
things don't float etc... it's not only about what's the best it's 
also about what behaves as people are used too (in the browser at 
least) . So IMHO inthis regard a REBOL to javascript compiler would 
be better :)

Janko, I agree - the web as a platform has endured all pretenders 
and is slowly and cumbersomely taking us forward. Flash for the most 
part is used as filler - for video containers, for 'interactivity' 
that is slowly being subsumed by html/css/js - but has always been 
an uncomfortable fit. HTML5 is, rightly or wrongly, the direction 
the web appears to be headed in.

In saying that, MS is still in the mix. So long as IE has a large 
corporate presence, and developers rely on their APIs, they are still 
going to have some directional influence. I think they've been an 
anchor that the web platform has been dragging along.

That might be a good thing though - a tempering influence, not letting 
others go down a wrong path too quickly (a la Netscape).

biodiversity  is the sign of a thriving ecosystem.

'A Costly Lesson' - interesting article about Birmingham's (Alabama) 
decision to buy XO laptops for all school children grades 1 through 
5 (originally 8) - I believe the first municipality in the developed 
world to attempt such a project:


http://www.bwcitypaper.com/Articles-i-2009-11-26-232786.113121_A_Costly_Lesson.html


It's hard to overstate the personalities involved in this story - 
the mayor involved was convicted only this month for taking bribes.

It seems incredible that they would go ahead and purchase all the 
machines without even a thought for how they'd be used, yet as they 
have been distributed, there does appear to be great potential in 
utilising them as educational tools...

Sure there is. Just watch any Alan Kay video demoing the XO and see 
how well they can be used and how clever the software really is. 
They are just so different from your average laptop, there may be 
a strong requirement of retraining of teachers.

I was part of the school board for the elementary school where I 
live in and this kind of project would have been refused at the school. 
 its wrong in every respect.  every school is missing some amount 
of money, and when 5 million in cash is spent in such a random manner, 
unfortunately, kids loose in every way.  


this kind of drastic change  requires a top-down revisit of policy, 
structure, curriculum, teachers professionals, etc.   people don't 
realized that individual schools often have to pay for a lot of details 
which school boards don't readily acknowledge.


who pays for the (usually costly) full/part time technician at every 
school.  what happens in class when some laptops die, etc, etc.  


One (rich) school in montreal did something similar by purchasing 
a (real) laptop for every 5th and 6th grader.  Although the computers 
where school property.  


By the time they arrived, they where integrated into every aspect 
of the school's daily operations.  paper for all assignments was 
made illegal, educational games where pre-installed, and complemented 
the curriculum, every student was given training on some word editor, 
email, how to get, send assignments, and IIRC there was a school 
portal for the program, where kids could get/provide all they needed.

I guess if you are going to drop in equipment like this, the XO is 
a good choice as you can still get benefits without a structure. 
 Another possible advantage is that as there was no technological 
agenda (ie. not some tech company pushing), it allows some level 
of experimentation, allowing the best use for these machines to emerge 
- from the kids and teachers - instead of it being imposed.

But yes, the core point of retrofitting a semblence of structure 
contains a lot of painful hidden costs.

There was a large scale test project in France for  8 years.

Every pupil in the Department Landes got a laptop. The costs were 
around 45Mio. €.

The project is regarded as failed, as the pupils used the laptop 
only for gaming.
At least some newspapers wrote that.

not just from a software standpoint, but from a physical standpoint.

My daughter has a part time job at the city library shelving books. 
 She's the fastest shelver the library has .... they have to shelve 
all sorts of book sizes.  I told her its because she spent years 
practising with tetris :)

Watching my brother's 9-year old playing action games is amazing. 
He can move faster than I can keep up, which I never had the opportunity 
to at that age. I'm sure he gains a lot of knowledge in the area 
of quick thinking along with reflexes.

well, mental faculties reach a peak in one's early 20s ... so anytime 
after that would be appropriate.

The brain can be trained like a muscle. The more one uses the brain 
to solve all kinds of puzzles, eye-hand reflexes, etc. the better 
one become at using the brain overall, also in different situations. 
I think, games can help a lot in exercising the brain.

music is one of (if not the) best brain training things you can do. 
 it forces every part of the brain to work together and in sync. 
 senses, reasoning, coordination, memory, reflexes.  A study showed 
that adults only learn musical instruments a bit slower than children. 
 its the practice that's the good part.   

its also one of the best anti-stress things out there.

mental faculties reach a peak in one's early 20s

 - I've always wondered if that's true, or coincidental - that used 
 to be around the age people would have gotten used to their first 
 job after they're done with high school.  (Here in the US, at least) 
  Now there's college, which may push that age back a bit...

About two months ago I stumbled upon Tonido  and the Tonido plug 
computer. I ordered a Tonido but then canceled the order because 
the application software supplied was not multi-user. I have recently 
ordered the Pogoplug which does appear to allow multiple users. Check 
it out.

Better to ask Carl on R3 chat and or directly using feedback or submiting 
it as a wish on CC -> www.curecode.org/rebol3/

Hi Oldes, I did submit something via feedback a couple of weeks ago. 
My thought in posting here was in hope of drumming up more support 
from some of you Rebol gurus in recognizing the importance of being 
in this marketplace.

mental faculties reach a peak in one's early 20s

I don't think, that's true either. I can do many things better and 
faster now, than 20 years ago, when I was in my early 20ies. I can 
program a lot faster and with fewer errors now than back then. Now 
and then I try a computer game on my Amiga, that I haven't touched 
in 20 years. I can finish games now, I couldn't figure out back then. 
My reactions might be a bit slower now, even if I'm not really sure 
about that either. But I solve the puzzles better now. Many years 
of practise has also made me a better piano player now, than 20 years 
ago.


I don't know, where that saying come from, but I can't see it being 
true.

27 Is around the age that most people would have had most of their 
children throughout history, so it makes a lot of sense that evolutionary 
selection wouldn't have cared much after that

I more often find it harder to find words now than 20 years ago. 
But I know more words today, so it's mayby logical. Languages never 
was my big thing, and my english really sucked, especially when I 
was a teen. I don't understand, what they mean by "mental faculties 
reach a peak in one's early 20s". Sure, if they measure on people, 
who don't exercise their brain after school-years, then they'll see 
that. It's the same, if they measure muscular abilities for someone, 
who used to do physical exercise and then became lazy.

My spelling was better when I was a kid, but I think the older you 
get, your brain gets filled with all sorts of junk, diminishing your 
capacity to see the right answer in simplistic matters like spelling, 
or perhaps you care less about it, because you realize how important 
or non-important it is to get right, saving brain power.

I'm a way better programmer now, more thanks to various thinking 
techniques, than to specific learning about algorithms. I'm better 
at leaving a problem alone when I know it will take days to solve, 
if I bruteforce it. "Wiser birds" and such.

I think if I went back to university and took the same courses again 
that I did back then (but have forgotten all about), I would do a 
lot better in them.

Today in my 30's, I feel my brain is developing a whole lot more 
than in my 20's. Even my short-term memory is improving.

Perosnally, I'm not convinced by these brain shrinking theories. 
I quote from Tony Buzan (The Mind Mapping Man) :


Recent research has shown that in a normal, healthy brain (that is, 
one in a healthy, aerobically fit body in which the brain is used 
well) there is no apparent loss of brain cells; only a growth in 
the interconnections, and therefore multiple intelligences of  that 
brain!


As the 20th Century ended, biologists at Princeton University came 
up witht the discovery ... that parts of the human brain can generate 
thousands of new brain cells, everyday


I can't find the original scientific reference - Google only guided 
me to http://biology.about.com/library/weekly/aa102199.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-0Nce5oTQ&eurl=http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit&feature=player_embedded


the recently deceased crunchpad ... a browser OS touch driven tablet.

Sorry ... http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/30/crunchpad-end/


Still this does give us a glimpse on how we might use a browser OS 
...

http://llvm.org/devmtg/2009-10/

Lots of new information from a developer meeting about LLVM.

Nice, but 6000Û is quite a lot.

Also: "Note, however, that because nameservers geolocate according 
to the resolver's IP address rather than the user's, Google Public 
DNS has the same limitations as other open DNS services: that is, 
the server to which a user is referred might be farther away than 
one to which a local DNS provider would have referred. This could 
cause a slower browsing experience for certain sites."

Well, I will try it for a while and see, how it goes. Thanks for 
explanations.

aahhh this once was "Tech News"  those where the good days of internet. 
 :-D

http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/internet-article.html

a few funny exerpts:

Some video clips - and at least one full-length video movies - are 
already available on the network.


it was still a marxist entity:   "It does not take kindly to unsolicited 
advertisements; use electronic mail to promote your product and you 
are likely to be inundated with hate mail "


a different scale... that of thousands:    "There are no TV Guides 
to sort through the 5,000 discussion groups or the 2,5OO electronic 
newsletters or the tens of thousands of computers with files to share."

And people didn't know 0 from o on a keyboard :-)

Wikipedia: Interesting... I'm going to cross-check if local chapters 
a better suited for a donation

John, good stuff...  I have always had strong issues with Wikipedia... 
 the same listed here, and a few more as well.

It works "well enough" for most things, but yeah, it is corrupt...

A technical preview of Kodu for PCs is available from Microsoft Labs. 

http://fuse.microsoft.com/kodu/


This is a really nice game creation application for kids. It's completely 
graphical and requires good 3D hardware for best effects (I'm using 
it with an embedded Intel 945G chipset and it's almost acceptable 
at a 1280x720 res, though I don't get the nice shaders, glow, etc.). 
If you've got kids of around 8+, I would really recommend you check 
this out. I've been looking at what's available out there and there 
aren't too many really nice environments.


Part of the problem with most development environments is that the 
little guys expect quite a lot in terms of whizzbang from the exposure 
to all the latest games and it's quite a lot of work to do anything 
approaching this in most kid friendly tools. Kodu seems to be an 
exception.  


I'd also recommend StarLogo TNG from MIT, Scratch (and the enhanced 
version BYOB -build your own blocks) from MIT, as well as the newsest 
version of Alice (3.0 beta) from Carnegie Mellon.


It would be a good little project to create REBOL tools for content 
creation/edition for Kodu. Later, when Maxim's 3D and other UI candy 
is in place, maybe REBOL could be used to create the best kids' programming 
tool ever.

I've tried it out for a little bit - it's pretty deep despite the 
kid centered approach. Just got a Radeon 5770 card so that it can 
run much better. If you search on youtube, you can see some of the 
kinds of things people have done with it and the glow and particle 
effects, etc.

has it been? The Scratch environment that I mentioned above includes 
an interface to both LEGO WeDo and the arduino I/O board (and clones). 
You might want to take a look.
http://www.legoeducation.us/store/detail.aspx?ID=1573
http://www.arduino.cc/

I think the whole system has changed and the boxes have too.  I remember 
older mindstorm boxes and they don't exist in the catalogue... so 
its probably just a repackaging thing.

yep its all on line so its just a sales thing... might be just related 
to toys are us... who where just about the only places where you 
could find mindstorm boxes here.

I have a complete NXT box for sale. $200 CDN (Girls.. they just aren't 
that into robots :)

Hey, can the SheevaPlug take a sata drive?

http://www.e-x-e.dk/2010/01/16/a-blogpost-about-hacking-google-wave-with-xss-and-xssr/#comments

Some security holes found in Google Wave.

http://blogs.perl.org/users/cpan_testers/2010/01/msnbot-must-die.html

Like Bing? Well, Bing likes your sites a lot.

Someone at Mit has obviously too much time and Cpu power..  Wouldn't 
something like Arexx do the same a lot easier :)

http://sikuli.csail.mit.edu/

Graham - use the Nightly Tester Tools extension to override the version 
check on those extensions - I've been using the 3.6 nightlies for 
months and I've never really had any issues with overriding some 
of my extensions (I have a ton). The speed boost in 3.6 is worth 
it.

Sikuli is intersting.... reminds me of a thing on the Amiga called 
Madala... where you could write scripts as I recall that were visual, 
to do actions based on what it found under hot points.

You could for example select a region, it would use a simple OCR 
to read that region, and then, if let's say a word or number was 
reached, like let's say a counter that you knew was sending 10,000 
files reached 9,900, you could have it play a sound, so you could 
know it was done....


Would prefer a better version where you can simply pipe all text 
or widgets to other places.  Wouldn't it be cool if you could "pull" 
like a sticker a widget from one place (an application or even website) 
and "stick it" on some other place, like your dashboard or toolbar 
somewhere else?.


Is there really any reason I should not be able to take some group 
here in AltME, pull it "Tech News" over to my Googl page, which I 
look at a lot, and when somoene posts here, I see it turn red "there".

I can't right click on a file in S3 to get the context menu anymore

Joanna, I've always thought (and pestered Carl about it a bit) that 
having something like ARexx (ARebb?) in our apps would be great.

But wouldn't this be possible by provding a generic dialect framework 
that runs over a socket (maybe using R/S)? Apss just need to expose 
the service interface.

Gregg: Hmm.. That could work. Arexx is from the time nothing was 
secure (since security was not needed) but since Rebol has all those 
neat cryp-libs in it (even the Free View version) it should be possible 
to make an port system that would be both easy and secure.. (either 
as a fuction calls like Arexx ort LonWorks stype net-names)

Yes Robert. We just need a standard, so you can do IPC between apps 
and we aren't all rolling our own mechanisms anymore.

This one is at least more usable than the last.  Mine switched a 
couple days ago

Next channel. I'm wondering when we see the first job posting for 
a "personal social network poster and manager".

Before testing Google Buzz:


http://www.businessinsider.com/warning-google-buzz-has-a-huge-privacy-flaw-2010-2

I just discovered that Buzz is activated by default for all gmail 
users... !!!   WTF...

If you don't give a shit about BUZZ. .... 


go to the bottom of your gmail account and click on "Turn off BUZZ" 
 (you might have to squint to even find the link) before your private 
data starts being spilled out to the world, whenever google rolls 
out a bug !! 


note that its turned on EVEN IF YOU SAY NO, when you log into gmail 
and it shows you the Buzz splash screen.

been hedging for a couple of years

here is a copy http://zichi.blogspot.com/2010/02/fck-you-google.html
and here is google taking actions http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corporateering/articles/?storyId=32731

google has become a malevolant  liberator.... like the US in Irak. 
 we will free you from others... then remove your free will.


Buzz should NEVER have been forced upon me.  I am VERY pissed off. 
 I don't give a SHIT about buzz... I never will.  its a stupid idea 
in the first place.  

mail is a private thing.  Something to which I SPECIFICALLY DO NOT 
WANT to add a social experience to.


I mean, can you imagine people learning that you have subscribed 
to a porn site or some private agency (medical, govt, etc), because 
a very obvious mail address is listed as someone you correspond with 
often (cause you receive automated mails)?


then when any robot visits the url, it gets cached and you can't 
EVER remove that information from the net.  its freakin insulting 
to intelligence.

Free Kindles http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/12/amazon-wants-to-give-a-free-kindle-to-all-amazon-prime-subscribers/

Gregg: strange, it did not ask me to log in, and I do not have a 
wordpress account. Maybe this was changed after I posted the link?

It doesn't look particularly organized (surprise). I wonder if they 
made the simple test: Walk up and down a staircase while using the 
phone.

Taken from OS News (credit: Kroc Camen):


Google's Native Client (NaCl) is a browser technology to deliver 
native x86 binaries to users on Windows, Mac and Linux. Whilst this 
bridges the gap between modern JavaScript speeds and native binaries, 
portability is limited and that's especially important on the web 
where there's greater device diversity than on the desktop. Google 
are announcing that NaCl now also supports x86-64 and ARM. In addition 
to this Google are also announcing the ANGLE project, an open source 
compatibility layer to map WebGL (OpenGL ES for the web) to DirectX 
calls for Windows systems without an OpenGL library.


http://www.osnews.com/story/23021/Native_Client_Portability_Almost_Native_Graphics_Layer_Engine

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/18/windows-phone-7-series-the-complete-guide/
 Windows 7 Phone actually looks very nice (I am not a MS fan, but 
some things of them still suck much less as people give them credit)

and innovative, with this Android is starting to look like a poorer 
try because of less design centric development

I wonder if this is a trend... I just saw a demo of Ribbon Hero for 
MS Office. Instead of having Clippy, you have a scoreboard and a 
list of "challenges" shaped like little games to help you use various 
features in Word, Excel and Powerpoint. You can share your scores 
on facebook just like any other game. It's very game oriented, but 
I wonder if this will help or hinder Office users in the future.

Haha, it seems MS over-engineered WM7 .... that happens, when marketing 
guy dictates system features :-) Info from MIX 2010 conference ....


- no real multitasking, apart from few exceptions you are left with 
a push-notification system

- only way of how to get your app to the device is marketplace. Devs 
will have exception, probably for testing purposes

- you will not be able to set 3rd party browser or mailer as a default 
one
- devices will most probably not  support storage cards
- system will not support 3rd party UIs

- system files will not be user accessible. Each app will be able 
to handle only its own directory
- no copy&paste

I thought the mail and browser _could_ be overriden - at least in 
the Engadget article is says this:
We can tell you that there won't be any silly 

duplication of functionality" rejections: Microsoft says it won't 
reject a Google Maps or Google Voice app, or replacement email clients 
-- or even browsers, if some dev manages to code one up in Sliverlight 
or XNA."

...again. There's a few Python implementations with JIT. This is 
just announcing that PyPy's JIT has become practical :)

Microsoft will release Silverlight 4 in few months - makes it more 
regular dev platform, than "just" a RIA. Includes support for printing, 
webcams, microphones, local video recording support, drag&drop, clipboard, 
multitouch ...

That seemed like a windows window that came up, and he talks about 
Aros native coming ...

but it looks like a multiboot loader

The screen dragging is only available on hosted for now....pretty 
cool.


Its come a ways since last I tried it...Starting to look like a replacement 
for linux  on my  "kiosk" apps when R3 gets ported.

I say kiosk...I just mean dedicated computers running some rebol 
apps that I have at the firehouse....

A mapping app that locates fire boxes with directions, and a notification 
system for messages to members to their email and phones via text.

Not ready for prime time...hense the quotes.

the version with HDMI out seems interesting to create a nice home 
pc for an HDTV

I have a plug at home, that replaces the Ethernet share box from 
my NAT. Using the DroboShare gave me 5-10MB/s, using the Plug gives 
me 25MB/s over 1GB Ethernet.

Microsoft will release Silverlight 4 in few months - makes it more 
regular dev platform, than 

just" a RIA. Includes support for printing, webcams, microphones, 
local video recording support, drag&drop, clipboard, multitouch .."


So in other words, they are doing what should have been done day 
one, make all hardware interfaces a library call so any browser can 
just "be aware" of what is going on.

They're all a good idea for applications that run outside of the 
browser, and that is the main focus of the Silverlight 4 update.

Why any "device" is treated differenly just confused me.  Why can't 
I drag a file from my desktop to a webpage, and if that page is set 
up to handle it, allow it to uploadload the file in the background?


Why can't  I just direct outlput of anything on my computer ot a 
path, a path that could be a website?

Why can't I simply PIPE things from one place to another?  


I get the security concerns, but this can be handled with a requester.

I'm tired of the silliness...

I feel like I just saw the obfuscated way to use....a "table".

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/04/02/ipad-the-destroyer-19-things-it-will-kill/
-- this guy is a little too optimistic..

 publicly visible company (which Harman/Kardon is not)

Strange sentence


HK is something like a 4 billion in rev company, and RIM is 3.5. 
 HK is all over the world, doing huge business in China (about 1 
billion of that), and India as well.  They are in cars and laptops, 
and sold with computers.  In terms of number of impressions, I'm 
not sure you can say "not".

True that. At least RIM has more of a reputation for making devices 
known to have operating systems. HK makes devices with operating 
systems, but most people probably wouldn't realize that. I wonder 
if this QNX buy will be a good thing for QNX fans. QNX has been gradually 
dropping support for desktop QNX (primarily their development environment); 
the one-floppy QNX distro had many fans who were sad to see it go.

(ATI and QNX both being based in Ontario is a probable cause  :-)

isn't RIM also based in Ontario?

RIM has offices in Waterloo and Mississauga - Waterloo's about an 
hour and a half from Toronto - Mississauga borders Toronto

Works now for me too. It was down for a half-hour here. Weird.

Sometimes when I think a website is down, it turns out to be some 
problem at my (or my ISP's) end. This is a good way to check:
   http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/

When ever I read something like this it is like I just got news a 
friend was murdered while working around their house.

There is a virus called Security Tool.  It is really evil, http://www.2-spyware.com/remove-security-tool.html


But what gets me is, with something like this, that is so popular, 
why have we not hunted down the assholes that wrote it, and made 
a public example of them?

Never heard of this one - EKEN M001 "Tablet", 100 USD price level 
... article is in Czech,  but contains photos and video ....

http://www.zive.cz/clanky/eken-m001-maly-tablet-pc-s-androidem-za-dva-tisice/sc-3-a-152037/default.aspx

HP buys Palm ... http://www.osnews.com/story/23221/HP_Buys_Palm


My take - a pity Palm was not bought by HTC. For me HP is big failure. 
Company without a vision, who killed Compaq by the merge.

I am not sure I can understand. Is it a sarcasm? :-)

Just to make sure we are all clear here... I'm using no humour.


I believe Pekr to have asked me about the link I posted to the virus 
called "Security Tool".

By asking me if it is a "prohibited business practice" he is implying 
it is a business in the first place.
I see no evidence this is a real product, or a business.


In any case, let's pretend that it is a real product, now let's pretend 
(and this does not require much of a stretch) that it gets onto your 
doctor's computer, who is trying to look up an emergency peice of 
data.


This softtware actually PREVENTS other software from running on your 
computer.


If we prove malice, which is not hard to do here, then ALL issues 
are open.  It is not going to happen, but I would fight for this 
to be a felony, and put them in prison:

- Obstruciton of justive
- Distrubing the piece
- You can tack on to anything "With teh intent to do harm"

etc.

who don't remember the situation where do you wish having direct 
access to a virus hacker's face 
in the moment you are cleaning up your computer. 

but what I mean with my post was not humor also, it was about relation. 
for a very short moment your 

words (hunted/war) remind me a to another person using this 'size 
of reality building symbols' very 

strongly with a current result many people don't like. it is also 
significant to see how words

going into a kind of inflation and devaluating quickly by it's unrelational 
usage supported by the media. 
therefore the reference to the media who is responible for this.

on the other hand and just to make it complete,


the media industry gave so much love for free, I can't say how much 
I appreciating this.

they teached us don't spare to much on using love, there are important 
items for us which deserve it, really! 
like to love a cheese? no problem, now we can...
like to love a new flat TV? no problem, we can now also...

like to love a fatty, stinky, unhealthy burger? well this was difficult 
but now...guess!


and the real benefit we have with this fantastic memetic innovation 
is a nice usefull inflation.
(yes, as mentioned this works on words too).

we are now in the convenienced position to use this word daily without 
the risk of any deeper meaning

and the best of all is, the more we are using this word for all these 
other important things, the lower the 'ancient' value by time.
btw I love you all...(this is real progress isn't it? :-)))))

Pekr, my understanding is that HP's purchase of Compaq was a big 
mistake for HP.  Compaq's desktop business was low value, and their 
servers were also low end.  I believe they lost a lot on that one.