AltME groups: search

Yep, next stage would be to -- a) save your name and dot, b) show 
a list of names, c) highlight the dot of the selected name, and d) 
show their local time.

Pity Jaime can't code up a chat program now ...apparently he was 
going to do this while at Devcon during his talk.

from R:
=
Update on the Dev Con.

Sadly, while we have wireless, and access to the Web, not to AltME! 
 Shame.

Also; Although it is being taped correctly, we can't get it on the 
web.


Apparently there are a lot of problems with Firewalls here, at different 
levels, as in, we are in a school, but in a addition, the Italian 
gov might be blocking some stuff.  We are not sure.
==

Oh well, I guess we come back in a few weeks to see the videos.

that should be low tech enough to work on a Mac.

Shame about no feed from Italy ...


Petr .... webcam in Rebol may be a bit ambitious .... we cant even 
get access to real time sound. !

Agreed ... Gab has done a great job

Petr .... that would be good .... I have a project in mind (for the 
longer term) for which I need better sound.

PhilB: then contact Kru, please, form the alliance to push on sound 
a little bit more - maybe Carl has some thoughts in that regard and 
maybe you can help Carl to investigate some possible solutions, dunno 
...

in a way, AltMe users...are spoilt to real-time access to info.


we can't slow down for a second......hence the cravings for news 
updates 'fast'

MS stands for Moravia Steel, the company I work for. So actually 
it would be me who would be in charge of further REBOL development 
navigation. Now the question is, if it would be good or a bad thing 
:-)

2:45 pm to 3:30 pm

    Implementing a Lightweight Network Service in less than an hour, 
    by Gabriele Santilli.

still it is somehow depressing to not have even a single bit of news 
available :-))

I will upload a pic on Qtask Rebol Sig in a second.

There were a lot students from the school

Gabriele - aren't you supposed to have presentation in a minute or 
so? :-)

REBOL will focus on grwoth in orders of magnitude. REBOL will be 
positioned as the scripting language of a communication product.

rich text? in View? as a new feature? and rebcode too?

almost ... i think 90%. i don't have any release date. a soon as 
possible i guess ;)

Give me a second.

That was simply a mistake that you were not already invited, I'm 
sorry about that.

He built a system to do installers, in rebol, looks pretty good!

Sorry, I was just simplifying.  Modularized  of any Rebol code, if 
we give it a name people will be expected to do it.

This is a great group of people.

we all know that VID came somehow in a hurry back at those times 
when RT released first incarnation of View. And Carl also probably 
expected that someone will pick-up the chance and introduce new UI 
system upon View, which did not happen yet .... well, just recently 
we got RebGUI project ...

there is a round table discussion...based on the schedule on the 
site

You want me to get you a double-double animal style?

No, this is a very small group, and very focused on the talks, but 
it is being videod, and I think it will be good quality this time.

Yeksoon -- but the secret will probably drop of of the last 300 messages 
long before Google gets to it. Secrets are safe in a fast-moving 
Altme group

every year..there will be a 'too simple' to do presentation

Petr -- I agree.

Let's hope there is a "review of last year's minutes" somewhere on 
the agenda.

what about developers who need a cutting edge tool and whant to keep 
competitive level against java or php ?

This discussion really begs the question about what makes a language 
popular?

He is answering questions now, so I will start asking in a sec.  
Starting with "When?"

yes some times i fell like a child nagging daddy to go disneyland

I will always wave the flag that Rebol needs a killer app.

R, that's right. There was a time when Commodore was thinking about 
porting Lotus 123. Personally, I think that strategy would have been 
good.

i think R/T need's a change of context, the actual time and development 
costs coud be reduced by some open code strategy  just an idea ...

question for Carl. What does beyond View, IOS means?


Is it end of life support such that there will be a whole new range 
of products from RT that will replace it (and hence ...$)

I will talk about Beyong IOS iin just a bit.

I think, in a way, we (the Rebol community), still believes the "a 
small group of guys can make a big difference" mentality. The "world" 
thinks that only a large company can compete.

Reichart would know that, for example, that nowadays it seems to 
take big bucks to make a game. Again, I believe that's a mindset.

It will support custom servers, and there will be a public server 
that everyone can use to search for Reb Services.  For example, if 
someone offers a service like World Time, then you can search for 
this, and then start using this service.

I should mention, Gab wrote this, and Rchard and Gab have been working 
with Rebol on a contract basis.

haha, one other person, who does not actually remember what the abbreviation 
means :-) Maybe a good signal to change it. Most of us will refer 
to it as a rebservices anyway :-)

Carl's goal was to move it over,  but things got mixed up.  Some 
people had problems building handlers, since there is not critical 
management section.  So inside an asynch hander yo uput a print command, 
and it gets changed by other parts of the system.  So it made it 
too complex.

Yes, we need to have a SIG group here to really review this.

ok, thank you very much Reichard, it is really a good service you 
are doing here for those unlucky, who could not attend for whatever 
reason!

I wish you had the feed,  it is a real shame this is so hard to make 
happen!

Pekr, build me a clear list of your questions, and I will ask them 
all here.

R, I'd really like to see a snippet of code

And if he gets Cyphre and Gab full time and one or two others, this 
announcement look a lot more realistic to me :)

Sorry if i extrapolated to much. just a little bit euphoric :)

that is a new news

These are guys I have worked with for a long time that are now loving 
Rebol, and writing a lot of code.

Reichart, there is a whole bunch of pple under Rebol SIG in QTask, 
....

are a lot of them working on QTask etc?

yes Reichart - I simply wanted to hear something concrete, but OK, 
here comes the list, out of my head:


1) Will rich text and rebcode became part of all rebol distributions 
from now on?

2) we heard answer for async kernel in regards to LNS - some time 
ago Carl mentioned proper tasking or even timers could be added - 
is that anyhow realistic?

3) I realised VitalNeeds removed all Rebol related info from their 
website - is the partnership lost?
4) what will be the next focus of RT?

5) there was some talk about "rebuilding the team" - will RT employ/contract 
more developers?

6) some time ago Carl talked about opening some of rebol code - parts 
of View, console etc - will that happen? Part of that plan was "Rebol 
as a library" IIRC - is that concept still valid? What happened to 
/Platform vision? I was not present last year at Devcon, but my understanding 
was, that /Platform is about modularisation, language plug-ins were 
planned too ...

7) not to mention BCD, rebin, RIF, of which only RIF was mentioned.

8) RAMBO is cool - but what about shared roadmap? I was contacted 
privately by one former Rebol developer, who felt Rebol plays on 
elite and that not knowing what is the plan for what product is really 
badly frustrating. Will RT create more SIGs, to fasten developments 
in certain areas? I talk about kernel areas, which general rebol 
user can not affect and waiting for enhancements can take years. 
Some ppl are already crying for better sound (if we want to use rebol 
for video-over-web for eg.)

9) We heard about spreading rebol x-times. What is RT's vision of 
how to achieve this? Such claims should be supported by some more 
concrete plan? Is still outer world (development companies) interested 
in Rebol, so maybe more of VitalNeeds partnerships could come?
10) What is Carl's preferred drink? :-)


Thank you very much, sorry if some questions sound strange, they 
were put on "paper" as fast as I could type on my notebook. Enjoy 
the community in Treviglio, guys!

Anyone skyping?  I've got a new headset and haven't used skype for 
a while, so not sure if I'm setup correctly. Waiting for gabriele 
to approve me.

i've got a new headset too, but I want some AltMe news!

It would have been a good community building exercise to do these 
things - rewards developers by letting them share in the excitement 
of the moment.

Guys, returning here after some time, I have to say, that current 
DevCon information is nearing a FIASCO, really it is!

me, no. I was just wondering how this was becoming a fiasco.

pekr, last one, whats that noise about droping VID for GUI ? does 
RT have plans to enhace current view controls or maybe a more complete 
framework  to develop visual applications ?

A language shootout on an actual application - such as building a 
p2p chat that passes thru school firewalls - would be more useful.

oh, Chris' map kinda showed Cali maybe north a little.

BEER is a great framework to use.  They have implented a file transfer 
protocol, authentication, and .. a working LNS profile.

It uses a modified version of Romano's ATCP for the async io.

I have a working CRM done with it.

BEER really requires, as far as I can see, a BEER client.  Whereas 
Uniserve works with anything.

You have a beer listener, and a beer initiator.

Either can be a listener or an initiator.

I know it comes from Jaime's group :-) Just trying to figure out, 
what in particular BEER is. I read about BEEP it is based upon, but 
I don't understand its architecture fully. And how does it fit LNS 
- is it a competition to LNS? Or just LNS can be used upon BEER transport 
mechanisms?

I started on the GUI a month ago, and with BEER a week or so ago 
to implement the communication protocols.

Well, the BEER one works well enough for me .. though the documentation 
is a little light still.

Graham , you are  one of those 'wierd' pple in the community as well.


From my understanding, you are  a medical doctor by profession, right?...and 
yet..u seems to be facinated by computing (and rebol).

Rebol is a tool, and I need a tool to do things.  Such as building 
my EMR/CRM.

I''m a Renaissance man :)

Is there a link for BEER?

Be prepared and get yourselves a SIT decompressor :(

Well, I guess Mac people use SIT as a matter of course.

async is done using call backs as in atcp.  So, if I request a list 
of patient results, my call back function receives the data, and 
redisplays the pertinent list.

Reichart, just sent a message via QTask..that they are having difficulties 
accessing AltMe,


I have copied Pekr's list of questions to QTask so that he can follow 
up on it.

going to lunch, have a fine time here folks ... hopefully you will 
get someone from conference on-line here ...

Possibly too little too late -- but here is an open DevCon wiki for 
any info we have from the DevCon -- http://www.ross-gill.com/devcon05/
-- you can edit as soon as you register (for a short time)

I am just curious - if Cyphre was showing new rich-text capabilities, 
it has to be present in View kernel already - maybe he could release 
a small demo for us? :-)

Yes, Prague (CZ) is really a nice town, old one ....

yes, it's a sunny saturday to nice to be here...

Graham, I see you have Mickey Mouse on methadone.. isn't that a breach 
of patient/physcian privacy?

Different use.  If you want to build pop servers, web servers etc, 
use Uniserve.
If you want to build a p2p network, use BEER.

BEER is not a protocol.  It's a framework for building protocols.

I know what BEER is in general ... but Uniserve is just that, no? 
- a framework for building/plugging protocols and their handlers 
...

i guess there are multiple levels of protocols. 

one is tcp<->http and such, brom bytes to structured messages. thats 
uniserve. 

the next is from http<->orientation. you need that to ask for services 
and such. with p2p even more, for distributed searching. thats chord 
and such. 

lns and beer support building things like chord. maybe kind of networks-events 
thru p2p-apps.
then you have a orientation<->meaning, which is app-specific.

- Chris / Rebmap : very nice but the map is soooo small.


- Questions to Carl : Reicharts has ask every questions to Carl Saturday 
evening (Italian time : GMT+2), ended after the banket. There was 
30 witness ;-) No Internet at the hotel, so wait a bit he find a 
connection to post it.


- Uniserve vs. LNS : don't compare "TCP" and "MSM messenger" please 
! Uniserve is just an async network engine. LNS act at the OSI application 
level. LNS can work on Uniserve, HTTP, mail, even floppy if you want 
(the last 3 are Gabriele words).


- Online Free BEER : Jaime give us this url, but it doesn't work 
(or I made a mistake while I wrote it)
 http://www.whywire.net/share/beer-sdk.tar.gz

Just a few word to say that the Devcon was very a nice for me (hey, 
it's my first one ;-)

I have meet many guys I already know from here, and also some that 
we don't know. So there is more people using Rebol than just the 
one you see on Altme :)

DideC - so you heard Carl's responses, right? Could you a bit elaborate? 
E.g. what is the plan for VID? Was there any concrete info of how 
Carl/RT wants to full-fill his plan/claims?

- No, I was the only French (don't ask why about this : 30 guys already 
did it in Milano).


- Question : Reichards, takes note on his laptops, just wait a litle 
more.


- LNS is a sort of XMLRPC protocol (or something like that), but 
Rebol dialect based and secure. No relation with low level async 
networking at all. But it can be used asynchronously : it just mean 
your apps does not wait the answer to continue.


- I just came back a few hours ago, and days were long, but night 
very short ;-)
So I got to go to bed right now (its midnight!).

Just arrived at home from the DevCon. They have been 4 beautiful 
days, I learnt a lot and have recharged my batteries too. Thank you 
to everybody because I met a lot of  kind and friendly rebolers.

This dearth of information is somewhat of a kill joy :(

maybe we should switch to more "reliable" and proven tools as IRC? 
:-) Even back in 96 I do remember moderated Amiga shows on IRC, where 
hundreds of ppl were logged to chat with Amiga representatives. IMO 
in fact it is a mistake of organisers not scheduling e-QA session 
with Carl ... that should imo become natural part of such events 
...

IRC doesn't work without a network connection