AltME groups: search

DELECT just set's right order for further parsing. Just see it's 
description: "Parses a common form of dialects. Returns updated input 
block." I would like to see it in R2.

Unlike PARSE, DELECT handles unordered dialects (grammars) such as 
DRAW and VID. In such dialects the order of arguments is less important 
than their type, making them more human friendly because users don't 
need to remember the detailed order of arguments (only a rough order).

btiffin: Looks like I updated Wine from the winehq site late November, 
so I've got a pretty recent version.

It covers around 95% of win32 services API, if you really need a 
feature that's missing, just ask me privately, I will consider your 
request et maybe add it in a future version.

Cool Doc. Does the new NT Services utility also allow someone to 
established an external application as a service?  For example can 
I use REBOL's call function to run winword.exe?

From within a service you can call any other application using 'call, 
but remember that in order to survive to session log off, the called 
application should run without opening any window in user's desktop 
(including invisible windows too). So if the application hasn't been 
designed specifically for that, it will be killed when you log off, 
defeating the purpose of runnning it as a service. Maybe there are 
workarounds, but I didn't find any yet...

TomBon, yes we plan to test a lot on all kinds of filesystems. One 
of the good points with this DB is, that it will take advantage of 
different filesystems right away (in theory). :)

Patrick: yes, thanks! :-) I think, I'll let the misspelling stay 
there in that doc, as it was an educational work now a bit dated.

Brock: I hope that it won't take too long to finish translating the 
book. I have learnt quite a lot whilst translating it., though that 
isn't necessarly saying a lot.

Oldes, does it do a Clean as well on the source?

Alan: Chapter 3 is almost ready. I'm just correcting a bug with one 
of the example scripts that I introduced when I translated the 'words.


I've learnt one advantage of programming in French (or any non-English 
languauge); you are far less likely to accidentally redefine a "system" 
word.

LOL with the 10'000 post! And then a newcomer! Bah! Some people are 
just so lucky! ;-)

Well, 8's and 9's are good.  7 is cool, 6 sucks, 5 is like kindergarten, 
4 is too small, 3 is ok as its a factor of 9, 2 is a nag, 1 is where 
it's at and 0 is not worth its own weight in gold.  So I'd go with 
642.

All numbers are special to someone. But, personally, I only believe 
in numerology on odd-numbered weekdays during prime-numbered months. 
Anything else would be nonsensical :-)


The Announce group currently has 511 posts -- so one more makes for 
a nice round binary number. We could celebrate that too, once it 
happens....

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp267x512

My wife asked me to pick some numbers some years ago for her lotto 
... I said 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 as being as likely a set of numbers as 
any other.  Of course she decided against it, and sure enough a good 
set of these particular numbers came in :(

regarding my autofile utility ... the GUI seems to stop responding 
after a while .. some bugs to be sorted out I guess.

I once saw a blurb on the tube; if you take weekly lotto money and 
invest it faithfully;  after 30 years or so, you can call all your 
friends and yell "Hey, I just won 50 grand!"

Doc would be nice to see your NTLM module applied to enable other 
applications to be proxyaware such as acting on a layer as a port 
fowarder could possibly allow ALTME to have MS proxy capabilities?

I already have a NTLM proxy built on UniServe that could do the job, 
but for AltME, to be able to pass a MS Proxy, it has to first, use 
HTTP as transport layer (IIRC it's not using HTTP currently ?).

Did you ever get a KERBEROS solution going?

I doublechecked on a different machine. No problems.

It must be the fragmentation of the web proclaimed a few years ago

Rapidweaver also has a bug in the template. It does not display the 
logo in the upper right hand corner.

it looks to me as if he's creating some form of pseudo XML tags. 
my dialect looks like any other rebol code (yes, I care a lot about 
the appearance of the dialect), and I think his goal is more to be 
for template, where my dialect is not meant for templates at all. 
My goal is to describe webpages in as little code as possible in 
100% REBOL style.

for example, table layouts are a dialect on its own to describe the 
layout of a single row and then repeat that, where his uses a more 
rigid html-like structure.

and my dialect can be very terse with a table description. given 
that 'data is a block of objects, all I have to write is:

table table-style rows data


and then it renders the table with each object as one row. 'table-style 
would be a css class.

BrettH: I wasn't aware of the specific fact that Lulu.com won't deliver 
to some addresses. I'm afraid I don't have a solution as publishing 
through Lulu.com seems to be the only way that the book can be economically 
published (in paper).

; I think you need to save it first from the library, or can you:


do http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/download-a-script.r?script-name=charts-api.r

It looks like a problem with 'load-image in that Rebol version.  
Try changing the -- image chart [ -- line to -- image load chart 
[

Thanks Chris, I'll give it a check later and report back.

Great! I'll buy my wife a copy!

I see someone has added a Business Group, for all those using the 
World Default groups.  In there I see Ann-Reply, which should logically 
be close to the Announce group, no?

Right click any Divider...  You'll see a setting for WorldMaster 
Dividers.  It's the World Default and controlled by World Masters...

... get a bigger screen  ;-).  That's a good question.  it should 
be feature that can be selected from the group name itself you would 
think.

Hmm, maybe temporarily rename the group with a Z prior to the group 
name, then sort alphabetically and drag from the bottom of the list 
to the group in question?

PeterWood,

Hows the quality of the binding? Would it be better to buy the pdf 
version and have it printed and bound locally? I would not mind having 
access to the pdf too.
and..

There is nothing worse than a cheap bound where the pages start falling 
out...

I had a quick look at the previous chapters I bought. THe PDF's are 
also black and white. Shame!

Is that a pun?

yes, it was a joke

I haven't got a physical copy of the book yet, they take a long time 
to get ot my part of the workd.. I have a copy of another booked 
printed by Lulu.com, the binding seems no different from most books 
oyu buy in a bookstore. 

Does anybody else have any experience with Lulu.com books?

It might be worth looking at the economics of a pdf printed and bound 
locally versus a Lulu.com printed book and shipping charges.


The only difference is that the pdf does not include the cover. (This 
is due to the production process).

I saw a German distributor who could make hardbacks from PDF files 
and even give them ISBN codes (perhaps Lulu does that too). I'll 
see if I can find some details on this soon.

Rebol seems happy to interpret it as a URL :
>> type? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[11338642-:-N00]/2309872444/

== url!

>> read http://www.flickr.com/photos/[11338642-:-N00]/2309872444/

  == {<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2309872444_844f7663cd.jpg?v=0

Hey Reichart, a little bit of photoshop and you'll become our new 
Santa claus ;-)

Now I know what I will look like in about 10 years.


The guy on "my" left is Aubrey de Grey.  He is one of only several 
people who "get it" on this planet.  So he truly is one in about 
1 billion. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey

The guy on my right is my friend Todd Huffman


He is a computation biologist, and we are both co founders of www.BILConference.com

One of his papers http://tinyurl.com/awq9tq


I of course am now Santa.  Of note, 12 hours after that photo was 
taken, I shaved my beard off completely on stage...


Since people felt sorry for me, they went out and bout a bunch of 
beards, and everyone started wearing them... http://flickr.com/photos/quinn/2340803599/sizes/l/

If you have to be anti something, aging seems like a good one, no? 
 : )

http://bilconference.pbwiki.com/


We have a bunch of cool speakers, and a bunch of TED speakers of 
walking from TED (where it is $6K) over to BIL to give talks LOL

Oldes, about ImageMagick interface, nice to know. I looked quickly 
at the code and I advise not to make structs inside the address? 
function etc. because it's quite slow compared to reusing an existing 
struct. (I tested this a few years ago when I was making fmod interface 
and needed speed.)

I finally took a few minutes to look at it Oldes, but it can't load 
the DLL here. What version of REBOL and IM did you test under?

Data Exection Protection, a way to mark memory pages as data, not 
code. If you try to run code in these pages it stops you. Any code 
that requires DEP to be turned off to work is insecure.

Is there a demo of what liquid can do when it's boiling?

this is a very small example... the point is to show how to use it. 
 its nothing graphical. you'll see.  there are probably about 20 
nodes allocated which interconnect a gui, with fields labels and 
buttons.  the nice thing is that data is bound to type and range, 
and all interconnections obey the data.

and I even have a new version with 3 added labels, which are linked 
to the abilities displaying the dice modifier of the ability.


Its all linked up dynamically with the rest, without a single line 
of code edited, only NEW lines of code.  and only a few of them at 
that

3:49 am completion time in Montreal.  I guess the kids kept you busy 
during the day, and you got on a roll during the night.  Good stuff 
Max.

a son for the spring sun ! may he bring a joyfull light to your family 
! :)

Gregg, you have a very good memory. That's true.

Very nice product, Janko! In the Update Group form, there is a typo: 
"dashboad".

perhaps the css style for text fields should be a little clearer. 
it's hard to see the text field.

sqlab: thanks , fixed
Henrik: you mean that I should add a little more contrast to it?

In Update Website, there is a typo "remeber"

In Global Settings, it reads "a email" in a sentence, where it should 
be "an email"

There should probably also be a comma after "expires".

Janko, I'm giving it a try with some real-life web-sites. Cool stuff.

( that was directed to Robert, you helped me a lot already , I wouldn't 
be asking for more :) )

 I have no such place yet .. except me here or my email
 - I've created a !Site-Assistant group to be such a place.

Thanks Maxim , now it looks a little more pro after you guys told 
me for so many typos :)

I get a SQLite error when I try to add my first domain address; I 
was able to create an empty group OK

Great article, Ladislav. Just tweaked the grammar and added a link 
to tthe Parse Project at the end - Peta wrote a lot about Parse there.

I can't wait to read it as I already said like your articles a lot 
and parse vs re interests me a lot.. I just nee to find some peacefull 
time to zone it

It perhaps makes sense if you consider what errors you could possibly 
make coding using DO:
	incorrectly spell do
	miss the % from a filename
	omit the REBOL header from a script file
	do an unset word


I guess you could consider debugging those errors as being easy -- 
though I'm sure you can think of many more possible errors with the 
DO function than I :-)

On a quick look at the wiki page, the question "why do modules have 
to be dynamically loaded?" seems to jump out of the page.

hmm, but when I consider, that every build is actually ad hoc, then 
it means, that you have to debug many times, while in case of a standard 
method you just debug the method, not ad hoc script/s

Do you not think that it is more a case of either "debugging the 
ad-hoc script" or "debugging the input to the standard method"?  
In the sense of debugging either a shell script to compile and link 
a C program or a makefile.

Well, that would require a real-life example?

Just an idea about ad hoc versus standard debugging: "standard" actually 
means a specialized dialect optimized for the purpose at hand (so, 
easy to debug by definition). Ad hoc script means a general purpose 
language using more than just DO and LOAD, since they do not suffice 
on their own.

Personally, I agree with you. I also generally favour "static" inclusion 
over "dynamic". Perhaps I am unusualin Rebol  in that I am happy 
to work with a build then test approach (I usually take a test-driven 
approach to coding.)

but, it looks to me, that if Carl initially picked a word alternative, 
we would be happily using that without worring about potential trouble

...and, what syntax would you assign to the keyword datatype, then? 
- it may be a thing Carl is considering

Is it really a big problem to have #include? No matter what, this 
is most known format from other environments. Does it really pose 
any problem in regards to REBOL interpreter?

If it is changed to use word! values, I ask only that the naming 
convention used is carefully considered, with the thought that it 
may be used elsewhere, or other conventions may be used as well. 
For example, I use leading and trailing = on words as a convention 
for parse vars and rules.


The example that looks most natural to me, at a glance, is:  .include.

The question of whether to change issue! to be something like a word 
type without binding wasn't resolved, it was put on hold. As was 
the entire inclusion methods discussion a couple months ago, to work 
on plugins and bug fixing. We'll get back to it.

Well, the fact is, that for this purpose we need only a couple of 
"keywords", surely not many

Let me ask this. In a perfect world--forgetting any pre-existing 
designs--what kind of system would you want? Is a pre-processor model 
the best way to go? Should things like #INCLUDE be "commands" or 
just location markers (i.e. anchors)? And if they are the latter, 
what other uses would there be for such things?

It's a shame some of the useful publishing symbols aren't easy to 
type (e.g. § † ‡), but there are ways to work around that if people 
think they make sense.

de facto everything is possible to do using just one keyword: #do, 
e.g. #include %a-file.r can be expressed as #do [include/only %a-file.r]

Modules are good for code organization and their headers can be taken 
into account by a preprocessor like prebol.

Hey Ladislav, here is a modules document for High Level Assembly 
that might stimulate some thoughts http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Windows/PDFs/ManagingLargePrograms.pdf

Of one thing to note is an INCLUDEONCE directive.  This way if a 
module contains a reference to another module that it isn't called 
more than once.

Ladislav's INCLUDE has a /check refinement that does the same thing.

Would using urls be any better than issues?  You can dedicate a whole 
name space to them, use path notation, still are neutral and parseable 
values:

	sdk:include
	sdk:include/check
	sdk:do

But it would switch if issue! was changed into a word-like type. 
That decision has not yet been made.

brian that would be a great idea... as long as all of the current 
functionality remains... convertions and allowed symbols  :-)

Ladislav, your INCLUDE already looks very settled, so I'm late with 
the following suggestions. I really like the function and used it 
a lot, but always found the wording a bit unrebolish.


I'm wondering why it's INCLUDE/CHECK or #INCLUDE-CHECK for the "ordinary 
call", as you'd put it above.  Wouldn't it be more convenient to 
have INCLUDE work like the /CHECK-refined call and use INCLUDE/AGAIN 
to again include files already included before?


Also, having INCLUDE/PATH returning the path as a block, wouldn't 
it be easy to APPEND INLCUDE/PATH %ANOTHER without having a seperate 
INCLUDE-PATH next to INCLUDE. It may even be called IMPORT/FROM.

INCLUDE/CHECK   ->  INCLUDE
INCLUDE         ->  INCLUDE/AGAIN
INCLUDE-PATH    ->  INCLUDE/PATH or INCLUDE/FROM


Carl is always picky with names and wording, so having that sorted 
out would probably make it easier to convince Carl to include INCLUDE 
in R3. Which is what I'd really like to see happen, functionality-wise.

carl won't have to maintain that aspect anymore, and as a result, 
R3 will move ahead faster.  ladislav is VERY thorough in the tools 
he writes... Carl even admited that ladislav is more thorough than 
he  ;-)

INCLUDE/PATH: you are using an old version, I suggest you to switch 
to this one: http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/include.r, which 
does not use the /PATH refinement any more. Instead, a special variable 
called INCLUDE-PATH is used

so, you propose a new refinement? (I think I had such a refinement 
once, but removed it...)

I prefer an issue! keyword dialect, the changing the issue! type 
to be word-like withot the binding. I don't like INCULDE as a function 
name because that would preclude its use as a set operation the opposite 
of EXCLUDE (but that's just me) - using #include and such as issue 
keywords is fine.


An extended prebol dialect like Ladislav's include would work, if 
renamed and made module-aware. When you have modules most of the 
keyword directives go away in practice, since the module scripts 
can be converted to MODULE calls.

Just a block of file! and url! paths for now. The file paths of the 
original files can be used at preprocessor time, but would be unnecessary 
at runtime since MODULE doesn't use them. Once the module is loaded 
its load path is irrelevant, and doesn't even have to exist anymore.

The preprocessor would need a directive to set module import paths 
that would be used during the preprocess - it probably shouldn't 
use the standard paths in the preprocessor's running process, since 
that would get the modules the preprocessor is using mixed up with 
the ones it is processing, which would prrevent cross-platform processing.

Yes, want I wanted to say that I prefered the old INCLUDE/PATH over 
INCLUDE-PATH because it's one word less to "pollute" the global namespace 
(is there such a notion in R3? I'm not so sure now) and it's one 
word less to remember - the refinement will always be easy to learn 
about with HELP INCLUDE.