AltME groups: search

james: that's a just a starting point to show that applying the toggle 
feel to the btn gives you the desired effect. I'd probably stylize 
in real usage.

I have united two previousliy existing styles, which were very similar; 
PAIR-EDIT and INTEGER-EDIT into a single source file. Now a CREATE-EDIT-STYLE 
function takes a datatype argument (eg. pair!) and generates the 
appropriate style. A bit of extra work and it supports also  decimal!, 
so you can have a decimal-edit style as well... I'm proud of this 
optimizing - only possible using Rebol. The final source is only 
a little over the size of the original pair-edit, so it is a very 
good increase in efficiency.

It seems that demos for /View 0.9 (0.8?) are still available:
http://www.rebol.com/view/advanced.rip
http://www.rebol.com/view/face.rip
http://www.rebol.com/view/demos.rip
http://www.rebol.com/view/users.rip

Most code don't work in current /View, but there's a lot of information 
and examples on low-level face access.

I have a window that I want to make a dialog box .... so I do an 
inform on the layout.

Is it possible to make the resultant window resizable ... a la ... 
view/options layout [......] [resize]

the /Options refinement of layout simply sets a couple of flags in 
the face...

help layout
USAGE:

    LAYOUT specs /size pane-size /offset where /parent new /origin pos 
    /styles list /keep
/tight

DESCRIPTION:

     Return a face with a pane built from style description dialect.
     LAYOUT is a function value.

ARGUMENTS:

     specs -- Dialect block of styles, attributes, and layouts (Type: 
     block)

REFINEMENTS:
     /size

         pane-size -- Size (wide and high) of pane face (Type: pair)
     /offset
         where -- Offset of pane face (Type: pair)
     /parent
         new -- Face style for pane (Type: object word block)
     /origin
         pos -- Set layout origin (Type: pair)
     /styles
         list -- Block of styles to use (Type: block)
     /keep -- Keep style related data
     /tight -- Zero offset and origin

Another thing ..... running on WinXP under view from 1.2.5 & upwards 
....
view/options layout [btn "Test"] [resize]

.... gives me a window that is only partly filled in with the default 
background color?

Q. On Windows you can define a func as:

maximize-face: func [
	"Maximizes a face on screen."
	obj [object!]
][
	obj/changes: [maximize]
	obj
]

which lets you do:

	view maximize-face layout [text "Hello world!"]


but this is of limited use when you want to know how big the [maximized] 
screen will be *prior* to layout.

	help system/view/screen-face/size

isn't quite what we want, so I cobbled up the following:

max-win-size?: has [scr-face view-face] [
	scr-face: system/view/screen-face
	view-face: make face []
	view-face/changes: [maximize]
	;	view the face
	insert tail scr-face/pane view-face
	show scr-face
	wait .001
	;	unview the face
	remove back tail scr-face/pane
	show scr-face
	view-face/size
]

which has two drawbacks:

1) It requires the face to be shown (screen flickers briefly)
2) It doesn't work on Linux

Anyone else mucked around with this sort of stuff?

Hi Folks. Where can I find vid-styles to look like and feel a XP? 
I know that SurfDetect uses something like that.. Any tips ?

hmm, and once he is in View layout = rendered state, he simply wants 
to press a button and get resulting image ... Maybe he could render 
it once again in the background somehow? But how?

i guess faces remember if they are already rendered or not. but they 
don't remember that they are only rendered partly. 'unview tells 
them they are unrendered. hmm, maybe a 'hide does the same. would 
only flicker, not unview the whole window.

its rendered in its buffer. you must tell /view that the parent-face 
of subface is invalid. thus b/pane: none. now b/pane does not know 
subface and subface must re-render itself and then it goes full size. 
else it knows only the 50x50 is visible. should be fixed in to-image 
to force a full redraw.

nice, thanks a lol! It sounds also logical :-)

pane: head forall pane [pane/1: make pane/1 []] ... is a magic to 
me ...

How do you change the title of a window that has already been VIEWed?

Does anyone here use later betas on an ongoing basis instead of the 
last official release from rebol?  Wish Carl would release a new 
official view.

I mostly use rvdraw57e.exe, when doing View stuff. I find it more 
likely, that I will have to change less, when a new official REBOL/View 
is release this way.

I haven't had a chance to actually test it with the AGG betas though...

Ah, didn't look at the source.  I do recall the /lines /data change 
that occured way back.  I'll give it a try.

;May I suggest a change in your code something like this...
        either 1.2.8.31 < system/version [
            	options/data: data ; for later view 1.3 betas
        ][
            	options/lines: data
        ]

Does anyone here use later betas on an ongoing basis

 REBOL/View 1.2.10.3.1 30-May-2003, as it's a good match for the latest 
 [working] SDK  (REBOL/Encap 1.2.0.3.1). It is frustrating how REBOL 
 has become more and more "write once, test everywhere" over time 
 - hopefully /Platform will provide a unified base so we don't have 
 as many of these "which version(s) of View does this work" on type 
 issues in the future.

A question for those who have delved into View facets; which facets 
(apart from 'data) are *not* used by View? 'action seems to be reserved 
for the VID feel system, 'span seems to have an undefined effect 
if used. The complete list is:

	type: 'face
	offset: 0x0
	size: 100x100
	span: none
	pane: none
	text: none
	color: 200.200.200
	image: none
	effect: none
	data: none

 edge: make object! [color: 200.200.200 image: none effect: none size: 
 2x2]

 font: make object! [name: "arial" style: none size: 12 color: 0.0.0 
 offset: 2x2 space: 0x0 align: 'center valign: 'center shadow: none]

 para: make object! [origin: 2x2 margin: 2x2 indent: 0x0 tabs: 40 
 wrap?: true scroll: 0x0]

 feel: make object! [redraw: none detect: none over: none engage: 
 none]
	saved-area: none
	rate: none
	show?: true
	options: none
	parent-face: none
	old-offset: none
	old-size: none
	line-list: none
	changes: none
	face-flags: 0
	action: none


I'm trying to determine which facets I can safely use when not using 
VID.

Of the 25 View facets, I have been able to prove (via simple test 
cases) that 19 are used in some shape or form; which leaves 6 that 
I cannot prove are used:

	type		; view make face [type: 'blah] works just fine
	span
	data
	saved-area
	line-list
	action


For the record, passing an empty  face to 'view changes the following 
facets:

	text            string!   ""
	old-offset      pair!     0x0
	old-size        pair!     100x100
	face-flags      integer!  1


and doing a "view make face [pane: make face []]" will additionally 
set the sub-face's 'parent-face facet.

Oh for some low-level documentation!!! ;)

'line-list is only used on "long 'text" face (more than 200 chars 
IIRC). Be carefull with it.


'span was used in View 1.2.1 to set a pixel ratio (zoom) between 
'offset, 'size and correspondng real screen values. I think recent 
beta/alpha does not care of it.

'saved-area is considered if  value is 'true IIRC.


'action is checked by 'feel function, so can be used if 'feel does 
not care of.

'data depends of  'feel too.


'type could be used. Only 'layout or other VID functions use it AFAIK

By the way, the words in a face object are not "facets", as I fell 
into believing some time ago. Facets are a style's dialect words 
which follow the style word in the layout block. eg. layout [BUTTON 
"hello" red [print "pressed"] ]    BUTTON is the style word, the 
rest that follow are the facets. These may or may not translate nicely 
into attributes in the new face object created for this button. A 
single facet could affect several attributes inside the button face.

How can I minimize a View window to a tray-icon only?

After extensive testing, I've come to the following conclusions about 
the View facets I mentioned before:

	type		; required, but not used by View directly
	span		; required, but is depreciated / not used
	data		; used by VID styles
	saved-area	; used by View
	line-list	; used by View
	action		; used by VID feel system


So, if you create a View-only GUI I believe you can safely use / 
redefine the following four facets: type, span, data and action.

Which leads (sort of) to my next question. Does anyone think it is 
worth developing a simple, high-performance, low-memory GUI alternative 
to VID? The aim would be to have it built on View from the ground 
up such that you could (for example) use enface / rebface (or equivalent) 
without needing %view.r (and the over 120 KB of mezz it pulls in). 
If there's sufficient interest I'll document and release the Alpha 
implementation I have.

I think it is a great idea - after all - wasn't VID just something 
to get the ball rolling and show the rest of us how we 'could' do 
things?

yeah .. except there are only a few people able to "do" things :(

I thought Steel was not going to use VID though .. and Glayout was 
just a temporary and unsupported thing

Ashley, if it is really simple, I would love to see it.  In programming 
I sometimes have to "reinvent a wheel" in order to be able to understand 
how that wheel works so that I can use it.  A simple wheel makes 
it easier for me to grasp the concept.

Sounds like a good idea. Especially to better support data-form like 
GUIs. Together with Cyphre I have made such a dialect. We could take 
some ideas from it.

Ashley, it's a good document, separating the View and VID attributes.

Graham: It's *Alpha* so no hard benchmark results yet, but moving 
from VID to View for mdViewer cut the WinXP process size from 15MB 
to 12MB and improved speed threefold ... I'd expect similiar things 
from a View-based GUI.


Anton: "No it doesn't Ashley, read again." - I thought the opening 
paragraph of the referenced document made it pretty clear; "Facets 
are attributes of a face. Facets include the face's location, size, 
color, image, font, style, paragraph format, rendering effects, behavior 
functions, and other details.", but I'll probably use the term attributes 
anyway as facets might be confused with faces.

Louis: Good documentation can make *anything* seem simple! ;)


Robert: Maybe. Main purpose of a View-GUI is for high-performance 
scripts where you really want to know what *every* face is doing.

RebGUI (alpha) and draft documentation available at http://www.dobeash.com/it/rebgui/


Only a few basic widgets defined at this stage, so don't try and 
convert your VID layouts across just yet! ;)


Being an alpha, the design is still settling down so feel free to 
question anything that seems wrong. If there's sufficient traffic, 
feel free to start a RebGUI group.

Ashley, since you have separated the View and VID facets, does this 
mean that RebGUI can work closely with VID, without the two affecting 
each other ? Eg. could faces from a VID LAYOUT be moved into a RebGUI 
DISPLAYed layout, et vice versa ?

I wonder why you impose a minimum window size. Why should the user 
not be able to shrink the window if it is desired ? Shrinking the 
window may hide some of the (less flexible) widgets, but also reveal 
content of other windows behind this one.

A suggestion for PROGRESS style, it can be implemented nicely without 
using a subface, using only the effect block to draw the bar. (I 
have made such a style, in order to make it iterateable in a list).

for the CHANGES facet, there is the TEXT flag too. It's for changing 
a window title without unview-ing the window. ie (from %analog-clock.r):
l/text: mold now/time 
l/changes: 'text 
show l

how can I refresh a layout while i'm resizing it ?

can I insert a show in it ?

actually when I resize a layout by clicking left mous button and 
pointing to one of it's borders I have an ugly thing

how can I do to insert a refresh action while the border of the layout 
are deplaced

I know that but there is no matter to plug a little refresh code 
during the resize completion ?

and with simple version upgrade, million of people get rebol power 
ready to use in a way that will make them Huuu..WOAA

quicktime is already everywhere , it only lacks a real scripting 
language, where rebol would fit very very well !

I was speaking more about spreading rebol not really relate to your 
dialect, AVI is just a codec, quicktime support about 200 codecs, 
even flash (but version 4 only, and they disabled it as default with 
latest upgrade for security reasons..many quictime content broke..) 
and it as support for wired scripting, only that is hasnt evolved 
int the last 5 years.. too bad

and here is a simple site I did with this version of Rebol/Flash 
dialect http://dwg.cz/atelier/

ImageStream in a real life usage: http://www.bezruci.cz/pf2008

(it a memory game - pexeso) any other question? :)

Is there a pure rebol version of xsider ?

The data are at this moment from Yahoo maps... which story do you 
want? It should be paraglide contest visiualisation.. people jump 
from a hill with GPS and have to fly thru defined points. There is 
no pure rebol version.. I use rebol to parse the GPS data and convert 
them to precompiled SWF data.. also I use Rebol to compile the main 
file. Parts of the Rebol code is in google-maps chat as I was discovering 
the system from Rebol as well. And when you talk about hiding... 
as I'm using some non standard ways how to compile loops in my dialect, 
the best SWF decompiler I now is not able to decompile it correctly:)

Well, that's very interesting... Do you consider that a deficiency 
of the SWF decompiler ?

(I think it does actually. Quite a nice game, Questionaut)

mostly a menu, and texts ... but some texts are on multiple pages, 
while still in one SWF. There is something like 30 pages, so it might 
be easiest to do screenshots ....

I have some questions for our Flash experts:


1. Is it possible to open a plain socket from Flash to a remote host?
2. Can I modify the DOM of th browser from AS?

Cool. So, I could use Flash & AS without any visual flash sutff just 
to open a non-http channel to a server and get answers back into 
the Browser?

I just want to open a socket to the same domain the falsh was read 
from.

What's a good tool to write AS and get a SWF compiled? Is it only 
the Adobe Flash CS3? It costs $700...

I took a look at this haxe stuff. Quite impressive. It really looks 
like these guys did a good job to give you a lingua france that can 
emit to the most common client and server technologies in use.

I think I will give it a try. We should add a Rebol emitter, using 
the PHP one as a starting point.

No, you can write Haxe code and create Rebol out of it that can be 
run on a server.

Doing online apps etc. requires a non-rebol client technology as 
discussed in full-length in all kind of groups. And, I don't want 
to mess around with 100s of different technologies.

The entire Haxe project is basically doing a REBOL-style web dialect 
in Neko instead of REBOL.

Oldes, it might be the right time to start with such a thing. I need 
to play around with Haxe but it might really make sense.

Maybe it's right time for you, but not for me as I really don't have 
a time for it at this moment. And it doesn't make too much practical 
sense to me.  Especially if I'm able to get the bytecode myself.

Do you have a annotation program that can load up a png that one 
can draw on?  the png will be on the server.

no, it should not be difficult, but I don't have a time at all now.

will this be multiplatform or windows only? or do you play in the 
browser like samorost? (from the review it seemed like it's a standalone 
game rather than one you can play in the browser)

It's just a Flash so it can (will) be in browser as well, if you 
have a plugin.

Flash inbedded in a rebol face?

I think you need a valid AIR certificate to sign your apps. http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2008/06/18/getting-an-air-certificate/

I'm not a big fun of these wanna be desktop apps. If I look at the 
AIR apps list here:

 http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?from=1&o=desc&event=productHome&s=3&exc=24

.. there is almost nothing I would like to even try. And if you will 
have to pay 300$ per year to sign such an apps... I'm not much interested 
at all.

Could a i use the dialect to build something like this:  http://www.websitetemplates.org/free-templates/Giant-Sunflower.html

Oldes - truly awesome stuff!  In the past I only peeked at REBOL/Flash, 
but diving into it and LOVING the possibilities :)  I'll add a section 
about it to the http://re-bol.comtutorial after more experience. 
 Maybe Machinarium is REBOL's first killer app - certainly seems 
to be getting a lot of exposure.  Best of luck with it!  (just bought 
the games myself and really enjoying it :)

haha.. cool how scrollbars are made :) .. Oldes this flash dialect 
of you is sort of a mistery to all of us I think :) ..is it like 
open source thing?

Nick that would be great (adding a section to your tutorial). You 
have a way of explaining stuff. I look forward to it.

Oldes, others _will_ use it if it's well documented, especially when 
they know that Machinarium was created with it.  If you have a chance 
to upload the newest version of REBOL/flash, you'll have my undying 
gratitude :)  ... I'm reading and re-reading the examples now and 
organizing how to document important parts of the dialect, and basics 
of using it.  I think you could attract some of the flash development 
community if documentation is presented and promoted the right way 
- it's such a light and useful tool to create swf.  And with Machinarium 
you have an extraordinary example of a beautiful working application...

I have demoed Machinarium to couple of my friends who are not active 
gamers and they all seem to like it a lot. I liked this game so much 
I purchased it for myself as a X.mas present.

Janko, the Rebol/Flash dialect is basically compiler of flash(swf) 
files which uses own specific language - dialect for that.

I think programmers who are working(painfully) with Flash IDE every 
day would love it. I don't understand why the dialect is not well 
known in the Flash comunity. Maybe because you need to learn from 
the examples on the website and also get Rebol in your mind a bit 
;)

Btw, I will buy a Machinarium full version, I've enjoyed playing 
the demo. That would be the first game I'll buy since David Braben's 
"Elite" release on Amiga. ;-)

I watch the web server log go by, random hacking attempts for software 
I don't have installed.  Anyone could just type in a random url, 
look at the debugging output, find that (for instance) and bring 
down the server.  But it seems no hackers are interested in doing 
so.  :)

Nick, it's exactly what's supposed to be there :) It's a personal 
server and has no main page. There's only a picture that cahnges 
from time to time.

Oldes, do you want a different host for it?  I've got a shared host 
account you could use, and rebolflash.com is available.  Gimme the 
word and I'll set it up :)

I've got a pagenest downloaded copy of the site contents that would 
make it fairly easy to reconstruct the site, if you have any problems...

Machinarium called a beautiful program in Verity Stob article:
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2010/03/01/stob_flash/
[page 4, last paragraph]

Oldes, are you available for potential contract work in REBOL/flash? 
 I'd like to build a videoconference app to connect with my Flash 
Media Server.

Whenever your schedule clears a bit, please let me know.  I've already 
got working applications which I use commercially (slightly tweaked 
versions of source that my FMS host provided).  I can use those apps 
until you're available, but I would much prefer to have everything 
written and editable in REBOL/Flash dialect.  If it's ok with you, 
I'll likely want to release the applications as open source. I think 
a useful videoconference application written in REBOL would be a 
"killer app" that might bring some attention to REBOL (and REBOL/flash 
:)  I'll be waiting eagerly...

Oldes, are you in fact playing with moving Flash stuff to HTML5? 
 Or even to some combo of HTML+JavaScript?
I know a compny looking to get their products moved over.

Why should I
 


Crossbrowser hell is indeed hell, but it could be very profitable, 
and you are sitting on a lot of it already.  

But, just asking...

I just don't understand what it shoud do. A form builder or what? 
What's so great on HTML5?

What's the purpose? General chat about HTML5, as a new wave of de-facto 
standard for app development, or REBOL-2-HTML5 compiler? :-)

Reichart, no the HTML Dialect is a product.

I don't think so. Me not. We are now solving, hot get running subset 
of Flash 8 (AS2 bytecode) to get our game on Wii so AS3 is really 
in a far future.

I am just waiting for a friend at Adobe to send me latest Flash Pro 
by Snail mail via Toronto ( imagine if mail between west Euro capitals 
were as  slow as mail form USA mid-west to eastern Canada ... - where 
are the Thurin-Taxis ?? )

The site is outdated for a long time... I had not time to make any 
docs and don't have it now as well.. I hope I will have some this 
year :/
But you I can build the above example with this version:

>> do http://rebol.desajn.net/rswf_latest.r

>> make-swf http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/examples/swf4/swf-button.rswf
== #{
46575304AC01000070000C80000096000028010043026400003F0C0E00000001
00100005417269616C000002007F09220000000200680011300000B4000D...

Also there is a pretty high chance that the old site will expire 
in a near future. I will create a new one, but at this moment I'm 
busy to finish Wii version of Machinarium which means I must put 
360MB of the original game to the Nintendo's 40MB limit. I'm still 
6MB over at this moment.

As you maybe know, when you want to get your app to iOS, all code 
must be compiled into single IPA file (from ActionScript bytecode 
to native bytecode), which you can make out of one SWF only. I was 
not able to even load all sources of our game (>GB) into Flash Pro 
to be able create the only one SWF.

But I've found a solution (I hope, because it's still not tested 
on real iPad). The solution is:

REBOL [
	title: "Machinarium for iPad"
	type: 10
	file: %Machinarium_iPad.swf
	background: 0.0.0
	rate: 25
	size: 1024x721
	compressed: false
]

background 0.0.0
FileAttributes 2#{000 01000000000000000000000000000}

import-swf %levels/00_intro.swf no show
import-swf %levels/01_skladka.swf no show
import-swf %levels/02_brana.swf no show
import-swf %levels/03_dno.swf no show
import-swf %levels/04_pec.swf no show
import-swf %levels/05_mafodoupe.swf no show
import-swf %levels/06_vezeni.swf no show
import-swf %levels/07_bachar.swf no show
import-swf %levels/08_venek1.swf no show
import-swf %levels/09_venek2.swf no show
import-swf %levels/10_ulicka.swf no show
import-swf %levels/11_namesti.swf no show
import-swf %levels/12_predhernou.swf no show
import-swf %levels/13_herna.swf no show
import-swf %levels/14_vodarna.swf no show
import-swf %levels/15_bar.swf no show
import-swf %levels/16_zed1.swf no show
import-swf %levels/17_zed2.swf no show
import-swf %levels/18_zed3.swf no show
import-swf %levels/19_sklenik.swf no show
import-swf %levels/20_pata_veze.swf no show
import-swf %levels/21_mezilevel.swf no show
import-swf %levels/22_vytah.swf no show
import-swf %levels/23_foyer.swf no show
import-swf %levels/23_foyer_wc.swf no show
import-swf %levels/24_bomba.swf no show
import-swf %levels/25_mozkovna.swf no show
import-swf %levels/26_strecha.swf no show
import-swf %levels/27_outro.swf no show
import-swf %Machinarium.swf no show

showFrame
end

Funny! I'm talking with a guild, that will play Star Wars: The Old 
Republic, when it comes out, and they just had a thread about Machinarium 
today. It's sold on Steam for 2.12 Euro atm. it seems. Good to know, 
REBOL is being used in such success applications. I guess, we can 
call Machinarium a success? :)