AltME groups: search

1- caret repositioning in a big text and 2- rendering text in the 
same window that we edit

will be to settle it by inverting the problem : edit text in a console 
or an editor, and have the console or editor to parse the text and 
transform it according to the commands it find in it.  I did search 
for that.  The closest library to such goal I found is either scintilla 
for an editor or tkcon, the adaptable tcl console.  But all this 
suppose that we dispose of Rebol source code to put the language 
parser in it, right (like ion.pe)?  So we would have to rely on R# 
(open source) instead of Rebol?  Either way, it does seem that handling 
the problem well is pushing us out of Rebol; not a charming proposition. 
 I am just expressing my frustration of not being able to solve a 
problem that is not existing in other languages.  As a priority, 
I do think that the repositioning of the caret is the show stopper. 
   I could live with NOT rendering in the SAME window as the editing 
window; I consider it a form of cosmetics.  But I can hardly ask 
people to start edit documents in a lame editor that takes seconds 
to go from page 120 to 130.   It would be nice if RT could find a 
solution to that, as it would ease the way to specialised IDE's, 
Ide for Rebol and the many specialised dialects.  By the way, did 
Ammon Johnson finished to wrote his REBOL-based IDE, called RIDE?

hum MDP rendering is far away more complex than scite capabilities 
... So we have no other choice than invent a new way to deal with 
this

If you want a renderer and text box on the same page, just throw 
a wrapper around http://www.ross-gill.com/make-doc/and have the 
results show in an i-frame. piece of cake

allen Iframe ? and why not java ... are you joking having rendering 
and writing in two panes is yet possible with REBOL/View (see MDP-GUI) 
What I seek for is a merge of both systems Like MS Word But even 
sharper and made Fully in REbol/view code no external call to other 
idions technology :)

Exactly dideC but MDP-GUI yet renderise the documentation in VID 
like mdviewer. Why to see it in rebol/vid simply because it better 
IMHO to have a render preview and the MDP raw format in same window 
...

HTML rendering is for the publication of the documentation not for 
the preview of a building stage doc ...

Now next evolution of the rendering system mut be a fusion betwin 
the MDP raw format and the MDP to VID renderer.  In order to have 
on one panel that display the doc. Ths will lead me to write a multi 
file handler as we have only one panel for each open document. Save 
wil be made by default in .txt files and you still get the possibility 
to render HTML when you judge the document is publicable

Someone asked me about NicomDoc recently. I just added font support 
and escape mode (to turn on and off using backslash as escape character), 
changed some definitions and fixed a bug or two. I'll add options 
and make it version 1.0 targeted at HTML output. Should happen within 
the next days, where I'll release it.

I would like to create an IOS Wiki application based on MDP syntax. 
So it should be a Wiki I can use as IOS user and browse / edit with 
some kind of editor. Here are some thoughts (unstructured). I'm looking 
forward for you comments.

1.) How to handle CamelCase links and content?
	- One approach is to create a TXT file for each CamelCase word.
	- Than new files need to be autoadded to the fileset or

 - The editor recognizes CamelCase words and creates new files, this 
 implies the the internal
	  editor is used.


2) MDP needs to be extended to translate CamelCase words into links 
that MDViewer can handle


3) Filesync clashing needs to be integrated into IOS with DIFF/MERGE 
option based on the synced TXT files

1a) i use "%" as marker, not camel-case. and store everything in 
file. currently i use this to add relative links to make-doc-pages

1b) a reblet could check all links, and suggest to create missing 
files.

2) i use the "%"-translator as a preprocessor, so i have not to patch 
the make-doc*.

3) Have a seperate work-folder for each user. so auto-downloads would 
not overwrite it. and then you can use your prefered merger if there 
is a clash. its all files then.

3) the Wiki should be shared, as a growing knowledge-base

2) This could be implemented without a big problem. Either for CamelCase 
or % marked words. Whereas I better like the CamelCase idea.

how about a simple general purpose version tracking system for makedoc2/mdp? 
if done right, it could be used alone or with IOS. Carl talked a 
while back about some simple diff commands for future rebol versions...

I'm getting ready to make some changes to the make-doc spec for my 
own use to include some extra formatting for bible verses.  I want 
to be able to put in some specs that allow for wrapping of verses 
and a horizontally wrapped contents spec to go to a specific verse 
in the Book title.  I haven't looked at the code yet so I thought 
I would jump here and post this and hope for some quick pointers 
on how I should approach the code before I begin.  Specifically what 
parts of the code will need to be altered or what I should look out 
for and maybe what kinds html tags should I implement for the wrapping 
of verses etc..

Paul, you might try posting a specific example of what you want the 
output to look like.

Paul, MDP has a horizontal TOC option. Not quite how you want it, 
but you can take a look at how it's done.

Paul, One thing to keep in mind is that you should want to leverage 
html stylesheets. 

In your make-doc version add the reference to the class then let 
a .css determine most of the presentation parameters.

For example, I wanted to be able to add a question and have it presented 
with a heading very similar to a note box

but to have a different label i.e. "Question" and a distinct look.
This change was required to parse it 

 ["=q" | "q:" | "question:"] text-line (emit-text 'question) |

from the input stream. This emitted the html 


 question [emit [{<p><div class="question"> Question: &nbsp;&nbsp; 
  } doc/2 {</div>}]]


Change the make-doc script you are using to emit a reference to your 
stylesheet instead of inlining it.

I put this in my css to present a question in box that stands out 
(for me)
  div.question {
     	padding: 10px;
        background-color: linen;
      	font-size: 14px;       
     	font-family: Helvetica;
        border: 6px groove gold;
		width: 90%;
  }  

The reason for .css is that now you can change the stylesheet and 
don't have to change the html or 

re-generate it. If you want your question box to tan instead of linen 
then you just change your .css

If you have something you feel strongly about you can create a soapbox 
style.
For more on this see http://www.csszengarden.com/

p.s. when you change make-doc, clearly identify the lines that you 
change with comments so that when 

you get a new version you can retrofit it and get the benefit of 
the upgrades.

Thanks guys I will give it a shot and let you know how it goes.

I'm close to have ended the MDP-Browser software. Lots of improvements 
have been done and makes it a tool a step forward MDP-GUI.

what is MDP-Browser ? MDP-Browser is a software designed to work 
with IOS server  in a wiki like way. MDP-browser is a merge betwin 
MD-Viewer and  MDP-GUI some kind of nutural son of those two programs. 
It's similar to his parents but entends truelly the capabilities 
of both program.  First of all VID rendering have been improved (bullet 
points  are drawn using effect/Draw and not any more ascii chars), 
Viewed text resizing exist

it handle the window resize too, Toc area is inserted into the same 
window and the entry clicking now scroll allways on the top the viewing 
area, MDP-Browser can produce HTML docs by just clicking one button 
the HTML  is stored localy and can be published back to the IOS server 
using the IOS REBOL/link client plublishing system. Editing of a 
document is possible existing on the IOS server or new we can store 
locally or publish it back (if the fileset yet exist on the IOS server).

Paul, 


For what you have described, you may want to use navigation like 
that provided 

by a java script outline tree. One example is http://www.treemenu.net/
  


My plan is to soon make a make-doc revision that takes as input the 
NoteREB data from the
script by Alain Goye.   http://alain.goye.free.fr/rebol/NoteReb.r

Then generate an html site using the same tree structure as the NoteREB 
source file. 

Each page from the NoteREB data file is to be make-doc'ed into a 
separate HTML page.


NoteREB uses a very simple REBOL block structure to hold the content 
and sub-blocks.


If you want to change a page, change the source page, save the file, 
and click the new

reGEN button.  Alain's tree makes the management of the source much 
easier than methods
I had been using before.


I have used this approach for taking easy vid format and making an 
easy vid presentation 

format.  That means that it makes VID faces for each page and allows 
the execution of sample

code by clicking on it. Seems to work well and I plan to put it on 
the script library 
after View 1.3 is released and I can verify it works OK there.

Mike, I have a special script make-site, that uses the mdp-engine 
to generate web-sites. Take a look at my homepage, it's all done 
with this concept. Maybe it's something you want to check out.

Hi Robert, That is a VERY nice site.  I am continuing this look at 
NoteREB because it manages the source and the tree structure for 
me. For what I want, a tree structure is important.  This approach 
can use makedoc2 or any other variation to make-doc the page.  The 
recursive tree approach combined with any already written make-doc 
function makes it work well so I'll  be done soon  then will have 
a longer look at your site and approach. Thanks.

The make-site approach is based on a directory tree on your disk. 
All path's you see are actually directories, and each dir has only 
one file, an index.html That's why you don't have to hack in any 
document name.

Mike, that Treemenu looks like the same one a site that I now frequent 
uses at http://www.peshitta.org/Which is good but I need something 
that might be a building block to a full blown viewer at some point 
in the future.  For example there are other bible viewers such as 
e-sword but I want something that can support additional book names 
and might make the makedoc extended to support a format as that and 
maybe make a conversion tool that will take some of the popular bible 
formats and output them to text and rthen back in through a tool 
and output the makedoc format so that the output is still compatible 
with makedoc.

I have been inspired by the make-doc line.  Robert's rendition is 
fantastic.  Love the whole site in one file thing.  Keeping the CSS 
out of the rendered html is good, using classes.


MDP-Browser sounds really cool.   a makedoc/spec browser for makedoc 
formatted scripts.


I have been playing with a document format that I call nulldoc, which 
is mostly a set of generaly rules about how plain text documents 
have been formatted traditionally, or how plain text copied from 
a web browser can look, and I started developing a set of broad regular 
expressions to markup plaintext.


based more on what I wanted than what I actually had, the rules I 
came up with go something like:

two blank lines begin a new nulldoc document (segment)
spaces/numbers/letters/symbols represent lists.

tabs/spaces at the beginning of the line denotes code/hierarchy. 
 

tabs that are trapped by non-space on both sides means tabular data.


I differentiate between code and hierarchy indentation by short-circuiting 
code switch with #:


	code section

#	numbered section


I wrote a web page that reads the KJV aloud using an MS Agent character. 
  Used a control from MS for a menu   I had it voice-activated, but 
that was a drag so I used "web navigator control"  stupid name for 
a menu.  I think it's still up at http://members.cox.net/rovingcowboy/kjv/
 probably won't speak unless you have sapi 4 voice installed, though.

I'm using a new emit-verse function I created but want to for example 
change the line to display multiple colors and formatted text on 
one line

For example if I post a verse such as John 1:1 "In the beginning 
was the Word......"  - I want to be able to format the book and verse 
separately from the verse text but still group it together in a \verse 
/verse type output

This is a modified version of the outputter (embedded -- no template, 
no toc).  It does a full parse of each line: http://www.ross-gill.com/w/xhtml/xhtml.html

Mike - I have already kinda did like you said as I somewhat copied 
note but made a new verse type.  The thing that looks like would 
make madedoc better (might have it already) if if each item could 
be parse with styles also.  For example - come up with a way to parse 
one single line item into 3 parts but format each part different 
with different color for this and different font for that but have 
it still be able to be in the template.

Paul, I don't see how makedoc can do that because one of the goals 
was to having simple tagging where the input source is very readable. 
For these the line prefix (===, ---, ... etc) is that simple tagging. 
To be able to differentiate any value you would have to tag it independently 
and a general template can't know what you want to do.  

If you change the base makedoc to use an external stylesheet instead 
of the embedded styles in the template, you are a long way to getting 
what you want. Combine that with the few special tags you need and 
you can accomplish a lot within the design goals noted.

A quick one for the makedoc pros: How do you tell makedoc2 to not 
make a table of contents. I think it has something to do with no-toc 
but...

Just a suggestion for Make-doc.. using some form of markup that would 
co-exist with CSS  check out http://www.csszengarden.com/

the sdk has this ..


If you need to contact us regarding problems with this distribution,

please use <A HREF="http://www.rebol.com/feedback.html">http://www.rebol.com/feedback.html</A>.

I think it only works at the start of a line, not midway through 
one.

I think so -- but =url is a natural to use halfway through a sentence, 
so it's easy to make that mistake.

Correct, all the =... stuff onlin works on the start of a line. MDP 
can handle inline-URLS with =url http://...Text for link=

At work, we use those formats intensively: for project docs, for 
official documents, even for generating psychotechnical tests skelettons 
in XML dialects... So it would be great if a standadization could 
take place, keeping the best of the two worlds MD2 and MDP.

In the same area, there is also my NicomDoc: http://home.tiscali.dk/john.niclasen/nicomdoc/

I think, my approach has some advantages over both MD2 and MDP. I 
convert to/from an internal XML-kind of format called RebXML, which 
is much easier to work with, when making importers/exporters to different 
formats. RebXML is defined here: http://home.tiscali.dk/john.niclasen/rebxml/

I'm not sure, if anyone else found my ideas to be usefull, when I 
talked about it here half a year ago, and I haven't have much time 
to do more with NicomDoc, but it's not a dead project.

I'm sure your format has a lot of possibilities. FYI, there's a little 
compare study  published on http://rebolfrance.info/articles/gendoc_avec_rebol
. But a few years ago, I had to make a choice on the format to use, 
and it became MDP (MD2 then when it was released).

I find the idea of using simple tags to generate doc a improvement 
for professionals. Every time I have to use the m$ word, I'm stuck 
into format problems and i spend more time find a solution to it 
than concentrating on the core of my text. But i guess this is a 
known complaint :-)

Printing: With the COM stuff now, I'm going to do a MS Word emitter 
for MDP. Than this shouldn't be a problem.

XML: Well, I choose to use a block based intermediate format coming 
from the MDP parser. It's because you can handle it the Rebol style 
and it makes writing a one-pass emitter quite easy.

standardization: Yep, I agree. But seems like we have to many options, 
different thinkings and preferences, to many forks etc. I tried it 
several times but no luck. I think it won't happen, and I don't spend 
any more time on this standardization stuff. It needs people to push 
it and without a group wanting this it won't happen.

About new blood... this is a conversation which appears regularly 
within the french rebol community; How make rebol more popular ... 
but this is becoming off-topic, perhaps we should move to... well, 
to where ? :-)

French community is "strange" - it is very cool and active, yet it 
creates barrier for rebol adoption a bit - many of good materials 
are not in english. We help short talk about it with Cyphre - if 
rebol.cz should be czech only, or something like rebolforces, so 
in english ... (or both :-)

We started in february this year with the "REBOL Documentation Project" 
initiative with also this goal into our vision: let's make REBOL 
popular by translating doc ! There's a LOT of high value articles 
and studies abour REBOL out there... lonely in english ... (Ladislav 
:-) ) or in french ... let's translate it ! let's publish it !

For now, we succeed a bit into getting good french documentation. 
But it can be still beter ! OK, i can admit, i did not deploy a lot 
of effort to "recruit' english-speeking author for publishing on 
our website ... Yet, it stays open ! Come on in ! Do YOU have something 
to say about REBOl ? Do you want to make it publicly accessible ? 
We need YOU ! Contact me and get on the 'REBOL Documentation Project' 
!

OK... Should we create a new "REBOL Documentation Project" aka "REBDocProj" 
group ?

Robert: well, i didn't go into your latest version, but is the table 
handling not a compatibility problem? i mean =row against || text 
| text ...

I thought, for several times, to rewrite the MDP parser to use Garbriele's 
compile-rules function. Should make the parser simpler and more compact. 
Further I could design it in a way to handle the different approaches 
better.

But this needs quite a lot of time...

For makedoc2.r input log 488 on Rambo which has morphed to Reviewed 
log 3955, this change deck provides =url support for anyone who wants 
it.  

The line changes are all inserts and the line number is the download 
version from the script library as of a few minutes ago

-ins 136

        | "url" url

-ins 169 


url: [
    some space copy text thru newline (
        emit url parse/all text " "
    )
]


-ins 311 

            url         [emit-url doc/2]


-ins 512

emit-url: func [spec] [
    emit [reduce {<a href="} spec/1 {">} skip spec 1 </a><p>]
]

OK, I updated the MakeDoc2 file per MikeL's changes and here is a 
URL for testing:   http://www.cs.grin.edu/~shirema1/makedoc2.r

Is there a way to make blank lines (also blank boxes) in Makedoc?

Thanks Reichart, I was just about to post that I stumbeld on a non 
breaking space    solution.

Is there way to make a table in MakeDoc that has the first column 
all dark, then each column to the right is white?

Is it me or is there not a hidden option to make 2 column output 
in makedoc 2? I seem to remember one.

Henrik, I am not sure what you mean but this makes a two column table 
for me

\table

Column1 Heading

Column2 Heading

=row

Cell 1,1

Cell 1,2

=row

Cell 2,1

Cell 2,2


/table

With MakeDoc2 is there any way to comment out a block of text you 
don't want to print? I found =: but that doesn't seem to work. Or 
perhaps I just don't know how to use it.

I found a bug that accumulates the options over several documents. 
maybe I can fix it...

options are now cleared properly before a makedoc document is scanned.

To Brian's comments on Make-doc.  I've tried using it as well.  I 
found it was great for short documents and started to get hard to 
us as we moved to larger documents.  i shouldn't say hard to use, 
but hard to edit the document once I made changes or stumbled across 
errors in the original.  I should have used 'find' more, as it really 
was difficult to scroll around and find where you were in a larger 
documents.  Has anyone else experienced the same thing?

Yes, I have some problems navigating my large documents in NicomDoc 
format, which is original based on MakeDoc. I use search/find a lot. 
Maybe a syntax recognizer using colours would help.

I was thinking a conscious effort in adding lots of additional blank 
space in the document would help better define paragraphs and sections 
of the document.  So it's ignored by the MakeDoc parser, but gives 
the user a better visual hint, which is what the difference is between 
the text and the output.

Perhaps a syntax highlighter for kate or other folding editor would 
help?  Not that I know

anything about syntax files for editors...I haven't run PC edits 
in a long while, but most
editors now support code folding.  At least in Linux land.

I would like to see a rewrite that lets it work on a series of text 
documents, build a TOC an link to subdocuments, like the HTML REBOL/Core 
manual.

james;  My quick test worked out ok.  Do you have a local template.html 
maybe?  Which version did you snag.  I just pulled one out of rebol.org 
with Version: 2.5.7  Date: 10-Mar-2007  And then saved the MakeDoc 
Example from http://www.rebol.net/docs/makedoc/fastmd.htmland it 
worked as expected.

Without verbose on I don't get the error but then I don't get the 
output either. I'll check to see if it thinks I need a template. 
Shouldn't of course.

Well, at least my mind wasn't playing tricks on me. The version in 
the script library has the template set to a file. Thanks for the 
hint!

%template.html  is a "one-of" default.  If it is not found it uses 
the embeded copy.  This code here
	if not no-template [

  template: any [select opts 'template select doc 'template template-file]
		if file? template [template: attempt [read template]]
		if not template [template: trim/auto default-template]
	]
It's actually pretty handy.

I'm starting to think you have more of a server side issue somewhere. 
 Something is tripping that <% page-body %> to get sent as the 'page' 
instead of the actual expanded page-body.

My house  :)  Unless you mean the actual useful example page at http://www.rebol.net/docs/makedoc/fastmd.html
in which case I don't know.  The doc I did for the library is mostly 
just a pointer guide to other guides.


When looking at the the docs in rebol.org you should see a Download 
Documentation As: HTML or editable.  The editable version is very 
close to the orignal source text  to get a clone of the original, 
just cut out the 5 or 6 lines of download header.  The first line 
of the original is

Introducing %makedoc2...

That'll work for some docs, but a lot of rebol.org documentation 
is in Mulch.  The mulch processor isn't released for offline use 
yet.

You know, its kind of funny.  When I saved the document on my computer 
and opened it via wordpad, it opened up just fine.  When I renamed 
it from .r to .txt and then reopened it, wordpad had a lot of funny 
characters in it.  I had to rename it back to .r  reopen the document 
using wordpad and then did a save as .txt.  Now it looks just fine. 
 Must be a unicode thing or something like that!

Yeah, it's amazing that good old text format is now starting to break 
down as we head toward different encodings.  System designers like 
to outsmart themselves sometimes.  :)  Not that advancing out of 
an English only ASCII character set is a bad thing, but it may take 
a while to get everything back to quick and easy again.

My opinion; makedoc2.r is the preferred RT markup engine.  I like 
to promote Gabriele's PDF-Maker as well.  For DocBase, you need to 
get used to wikitext.  Take a look at http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/documentation.r?script=makedoc2.r
for a fairly complete view of the various tools at our disposal. 
 Some are awesome domain enhancing tools such as John's nicomdoc 
with the math extensions.

I've been using NicomDoc with math for almost a year and a half now 
at university. It must be one of the fastest way there is to write 
equations. Many examples of use can be seen in my notes at: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/

I use makedoc2 right out of rebol.org and one I call makecv, that 
strips out all the ardornment from the default template.  Orginally 
modified for a resume, comes in handy for a few things.  nicomDoc 
for that rare times I need math.  But to be honest, Mulch, the markup 
used in a lot of the rebol.org documentation is pretty nice; but 
to use it you need to document rebol.org <wink><wink>  Sadly, I'm 
now getting too used to wikitext from DocBase.

I'm having a problem with tables n Makedoc2: 
\table header
Extension_Ladders | Closed_Length | Weight |||
35'  | 20' | 135 lbs.
25'  | 15'  | 100 lbs.
24'  | 14' | 80 lbs.
16'  | 10' | 70 lbs.
/table

I'm getting a table that is six cells across and two rows down (Header 
and 1 row). - Not what I'm  looking for.

Is this make-doc2? Look a bit like MDP... ;-) If it's MDP remove 
the last || before the /table line. Because otherwise it means: Ok, 
add an other row. But there is not content coming.

NicomDoc has been moved to: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/nicomdoc/

(NicomDoc is a document format based on MakeDoc2 with math formulas 
and some other stuff.)

do we have a make-doc with a PDF emitter? I would like to use make-doc 
with a cgi script to create registration forms and PDF them before 
mailing

Well, I didn't touched it for a long time. So it's very basic (should 
have noted this more clear). I can send you all the parts and you 
can take a look.

There is a simple question I need your help with regarding MakeDoc. 
Please see:
http://www.rebol.com/article/0446.html

if you have full control on the app sources... using a resource editor 
(on windows), you could probably edit the rebol version data included 
in the binary metadata and then there are probably os calls to get 
that natively.

this has the added benefit of being precise within the icons and 
shortcuts... and may remove the reference to REBOL within which is 
a bit annoying when you release stuff and its not labeled as per 
your output names ' :-/

well you know the version from the source, and as you say, can resolve 
a checksum from the output bin.  but you must keep a table of all 
the builds somewhere...   I wonder if there are any commandline resource 
hackers?

You need to use the API to get the version resource from a PE file. 
It might be a standard resource , but I haven't touched that in a 
long time so I can't remember.


As an aside, this feature was so requested in the VB world, years 
ago, that Desaware created a commercial product called VersionStamper 
that did just that; and they sold a lot of them.

GetFileVersionInfo info isn't a real simple API call either. Have 
to figure a few things out in order to call it from REBOL.

graham, ok, I'll have a look at that

henrik, there's a separate download for the latest sdk .. which should 
be later than 1248031

well, things changed a bit since last time. why do you think I post 
so much in this group all of a sudden? :-)

Sorry, that was for the Command/SDK with a normal price of  $448 
according their web site

Is there a Mac OSX sdk out yet?

Getting a price out of RT is like ....

Try to write Carl on feedback. This could push him to do a new Linux 
SDK build.

ah, found /gsfonts dir in my distro...will test some font from it 
in a minute...