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I suppose it can also target a single window?

You can pass a window ID or title to -window.

A bit annoying, but it basically works. Especially if you have simple 
window titles :)

I don't think the Evas examples are very special, but I'll make a 
shot

Yes, Server is non-graphical. At least, it only has DirectFB and 
SDL built in, and no desktop. Workstation is Server plus X11 from 
a GoboLinux layer and the ROX desktop from ZeroInstall

Sounds like a major milestone.  Bring the next conference forward 
to show it off!

Can you give us a tiny taste of the RED code?

Kaj is reporting a success of compiling this software.  He hasn't 
done the binding to Red/system yet?

I will make a blog entry later today to give more details.

I think Kaj means that Red uses trying to create a browser using 
webkit will have problems

There seems to be a problem with JIT compilers in new Windows 8 Metro 
apps, and other features deemed too advanced

I've changed the developing branch of the C library binding to be 
the main branch again (technically, it isn't a merge):

Could it be that when a function is applied to multiple argument 
expressions, f exp1 exp2, they are computed in reverse order?

Could it be that when a function is applied to multiple argument 
expressions, f exp1 exp2, they are computed in reverse order?


I agree that it is not intuitive, but doing otherwise would make 
it more complicated to support external libs. It could be possible 
to preallocate the stack and fill it in reverse order, so that arguments 
are executed in right order for the user, but that wouldn't work 
for variadic functions (can't preallocate the stack before compiling 
all the arguments).


It would be nice to add a ticket in the tracker to keep this issue 
in mind.

As we do the compilation and code generation in one pass in current 
Red/System, we can't look ahead to determine the boundaries of each 
expression in a variadic block of arguments in advance, to be able 
to extract their datatype.

In the C version I already noticed that I had to put the computation 
in front of the reporting, but I hadn't expected this, and certainly 
not in a language that looks like REBOL

We have a "chunked" compilation mode that could be used to re-order 
the code once generated, but I'm not sure it could work in such case. 
The best thing to do for now is to document it in the tracker.

First alpha of Red in a few weeks?  Sounds great!

that's what Doc replied on his blog:


@Thomas: for the very first Red alpha, only memory management, basic 
datatypes and a few natives/actions. Ports and I/O will probably 
be added in following alpha versions, as PARSE. If we don't hit any 
walls, we should have it a few weeks, probably a month.

The first Red will probably have all the capabilities of Red/System, 
so I think it will be able to do quite a lot

Does anyone know how to change a float into an integer or round a 
float to its nearest integer counterpart?

FYI, I am making good progress on the Red runtime, but I had to start 
implementing the Red compiler earlier than planned, to be able to 
define more accurately the right runtime API that the compiler needs. 
So at the time that the runtime will be ready, I should have a first 
Red compiler partial implementation working.

round-ceiling and round-floor in math.reds do rounding to integer, 
but they still return a float value

To convert to an integer value, you have to go through strings. You 
can use the format function in C-library.reds for that, but I see 
I haven't defined a shorter float wrapper yet

OK, that could be considered as a binding enhancement, then

I wrote a binding with the Evince document viewer for the Document 
Freedom Day tomorrow:

I now have a GTK widget that can show PDF documents

Our server was down for a short while

I also have WebODF running on my WebKit browser and a local Cheyenne, 
so I effectively have a viewer for OpenOffice/LibreOffice ODF documents

Since the browser is in the form of a GTK widget, this viewer is 
also a GTK widget

We also have a presentation by the WebODF author every year :-)

So that's what Kaj looks like! Kaj, you have a very kind face. :-) 
 It is an excellent quality video as well. Of course I have very 
little idea of what you are saying but once you get to the code, 
it's familiar. Thanks Bas for posting this.

Btw - I also noticed Doc mentioning during the conference, that he 
might make a Red a bit more dynamic than he first thought?

I think he was tallking about  a similar  flexibility as REBOL in 
passing arguments to functions; the programmer can enforce strict 
typing or not.


It will be interesting to see if Red allows the programmer to define 
new types. Red/System does with alias!s for struct!s and enforces 
strict typing. But it doesn't allow the programmer to define other 
types.

User-defined types: yes, that's a desirable feature, but probably 
not in the Red alphas.

Doc, one unrelated question - how do you use your own domain for 
a Blogger? Is it just some kind of redirection to blogspot.com, or 
are you running blog SW on your own/hosted server?

No, using it as sub-domain doesn't seem to work anymore since I setup 
the custom domain (might be a conf switch somewhere).

Is there going to be a built in graphic GUI like in Rebol/View or 
will Red always depend on external graphical libraries for GUI's?

Magnusso - Cyphre said, that he has new framework in mind, kind of 
View like, just a bit abstracted, so that it could use different 
backend systems (Cairo, AGG, Skia, Fog ....). But - not sure his 
target is Red. But maybe we convince him to port it for some fee 
:-)

Kaj, this may be a dumb question, but as it stands now, can one create 
an android app with Red?

GUI, nice would be a clean cross plattform ANSI C lib, handling the 
basic window & eventmanagement

and providing access via a simplified meta-api (VID-DSL). this way 
nearly all script languages could 
use this lib as a native GUI generator.

the lib could be extended step by step with additional backends. 
a good start would be cairo since it's plain ANSI C too.

That's just some minor help to keep you in a positive mood while 
you are fighting new Red barriers :-)

Pekr: I am finishing the generation of the intermediary representation 
for the output of Red compiler. I had to change it several times 
as it is uneasy to design properly without all the other pieces ready 
(another chicken and egg problem).


For example, to properly store literals (especially series literals), 
I need some kind of Redbin format, but designing it and implementing 
it now seems like a bit premature (as most types are not defined 
yet). So, I went for a dynamic construction model at run-time for 
now. I'll move literals to Redbin when it will be available.


For Redbin, I want it to be powerful enough to be able to serialize 
the whole state of a running Red program, but I don't know yet to 
what extent it is doable when running native code directly (needs 
some significant research work).


Also, I need to make a few changes to Red/System compiler to better 
integrate witht Red's one, I should finish those changes and release 
them this weekend.

I am moving all my web site and web apps to a new server. Unfortunately, 
I have to change all the DNS entries too, so interruptions might 
occur during the next 24-48h on the following sites:

- cheyenne-server.org
- curecode.org
- static.red-lang.org
- softinnov.org

I've been busy with offline tasks these last days, so haven't coded 
much. I'm resuming coding since yesterday, I hope to be able to release 
a new version and push commits before the end of the week.

No brick walls so far, just a lot of detailed design work. :-)

Where does open-proto come from in the mysql-protocol.r in the mysql 
driver from softinnov? Word has no value in the version I am using. 
Strange. No complaints when using the script from a location on my 
webspace, trouble when used to connect from my local machine to the 
web MySQL.

I still think that it is because your mysql server does not accept 
connections except localhost.

Did you try to connect your database using mysql command-line tools? 
or MySQL Workbench from a remote PC?

And when you are in the "Home" Page, do you not have a "priviledges" 
tab?

Possibly the true admin is hidden by the plesk. I hope tomorrow I 
get an answer from my provider. Today is a holiday here, tomorrow 
a working day, just opposite to most of Europe.

No, never used TELNET. tried to open a connection to the host. Timed 
out.

I am now going to experiment with interacting with a script on the 
website that can do what I want remotely. Talking about safety risks 
:)

if you are looking for a fultext/searchengine don't miss elasticsearch. 
scales well, based on lucene, very fast, simple to use.

the interesting part is the compact rest api the storage model and 
the number of different analysers, tokenizer (snowball, ngram, etc). 

you can use elasticsearch also as a standalone nosql database with 
rebol. speaks completly json. 

working currently with 1.2 m documents + datastorage on a single 
machine.  runs very smooth. 

evaluated other components before (sphinx, xapian, tokyo etc.) elasticsearch 
has it all and is much cleaner to handle than solr.

About RebDB:
Is there a way to update multiple fields at the same time ?
I read in the documentation:

db-update/where my-table id 0 [id < 6]

This sets only one filed.

db-update/where my-table [id colA colB] [0 "a" "b"] [id < 6] ;works

Well, I didn't use it much, but I this works:

;create table tbl [a b c]
>> db-insert tbl [1 2 3]
>> db-select/joins [a b c] tbl [select [a c] from tbl] b
== [1 2 3 1 3]

I still use R2, didn't use R3 yet. Just a few tests etc.

R2 & ODBC is quite stable & useful.

There are just a few small problems which can be solved some work 
arounds.

I've used Access 2007 with R2, I didn't see a problem. Not sure about 
the supported datatype. I usually use old/standard/simple SQLs.

I get tripped up by missing datatype support with the R3 extension 
a lot more than with R2. Converting from numeric to float is one 
thing - iffy, but at least you can do it; converting from varchar(max) 
or text to varchar is often impossible without data loss.

After some time, I gave a try to the Sqlite DB. It kind of improved 
in some areas, even locking, so it is even more useable in concurrent 
environment. However - it still uses per file lock, and although 
it uses just milliseconds to lock the file, I have a problem with 
one aproach I am trying to take, and hence maybe the Sqlite is not 
right DB for my purpose, or my aproach is not correct. The reason 
why I wanted to use sqlite DB is, that it is easily movable to other 
target, and its performance is fine for even semi heavy solutions. 
I don't want to be dependant upon the some kind of "server", which 
stores its files who knows where, and to which I don't have proper 
access in cgi environment, unless I am a DB admin or server admin 
...

It's interesting when I try to connect using a port scheme I cannot 
get error msg:

>> con: open [scheme: 'odbc target: "..."] ;try with wrong password 
for example
** Script Error: ODBC error:

>> con: open odbc://sa:[qwe1234-:-mydsn]

** Script Error: ODBC error: [Microsoft][SQL Server Native Client 
10.0][SQL Server]Login failed for user 'sa'.  <<< now I got error 
msg.

Any idea how to get "real" error message?

Only if the target is a DSN with no other settings specified. Otherwise, 
use target.

For instance, this is a common connection I use at work (server name 
changed):

conn: [scheme: 'odbc target: "driver=SQL Server Native Client 10.0;server=SERVER1;database=db1;Trusted_Connection=Yes;"]

I've just updated the R3 ODBC Extension to work with more SQL types 
and, with the support of BrianH, fixed and improved the boot code 
OPEN and COPY actors.


The extension is available over at Github in both source form as 
well as a DLL compiled for windows, see https://github.com/gurzgri/r3-odbc

Is anyone using Doc's MySql protocol (v4.1 1.3.0) with MySql 5.5.24-cll, 
protocol v10? 


I have a client migrating to a new host. We've been using 1.2.1 against 
mysql 5.0.95, but 5.5 triggers the client auth error. Moving to Doc's 
4.1 version solved that, but a simple test query returns an empty 
block. 


Can't rule out a data migration error yet, as things just moved and 
getting connected was the frist step. Just curious if someone is 
known to have this combo working.

The failing query was a data migration issue, just FYI.

Janko: if you're using a newer MySQL version, you need my 4.1 driver.

Ah right (reading the blog article reminded me a few things), the 
multiple results reading + stored proc needed more tests.

I've been relying on 4.1 for a long time now. No problems so far. 
Thanks Doc.

I've also been using it for a very long time. Sadly, not a lot testing 
with multiple result sets as we don't use this on production, so 
i can't use multiple result sets. :( it did work correctly with simple 
tests.

Thought I'd share this in case anyone found it useful (or had any 
suggestions/criticisms).  First part is a description in REBOL of 
a database schema (sample here: http://reb4.me/r/schema-sample), 
second part is a function that generates the MySQL code to create 
the database/tables. I'd like to add functions to analyse database 
schemas against my REBOL schema and create 'ALTER' statements as 
necessary.  All in good time...

Definitely a work in progress, but has saved me some time.

Erk, fixed a couple other dependencies, d'oh!

By the looks of it (I've not used MS SQL) it wouldn't be too different. 
Same for Sqlite. Just a matter of hacking http://reb4.me/r/mysql-schema
to include the most appropriate datatypes.


Of course, that's only for the 'create statement. I imagine detecting 
differences in schemas between SQL dialects might be more nuanced. 
But then I haven't got that far with any dialect of SQL, so...

learning comes with a lot of try and err even for a 'simple' language 
as REBOL


Probably yes and have your apache server set up right for .r files

so you have put the users answer also in a mySQL table?

read both tablerows from the tables into different variables and 
compare the subfields of the returned rows result1/fielda result2/fielda

0.6.7 has REBOL 3, a recent Boron and ORCA on board

Do you use a generater tool for the Welcome_XX.html files? The Dutch 
version contains a considerable amount of English paragraphs. And 
ugly 'k'-s and some typo's.

I can not copy any file by dragging and dropping also ctrl-c ctrl-v 
didn't work. Copying a file should be easy?

I think delete should not be in the right-click menu only if you 
push shift or alt maybe. And there should definitely be an option 
to select move or copy a file.

I will attach a real mouse to the laptop I am using because clicking 
and right and left mouse buttons on my trackpad with two buttons 
seems to work inconsistent. No left button even if left&right button 
are swapped.

Hey, should there not be a R3/view? I only can start r3 from terminal.

Dragging moves a file. Hold Control to copy or Alt to make a symlink

If I can work on them off-line, I have some hours on a train left 
coming week.

No dragging with the trackpad. CD can play, no sound probably a wrong 
driver, under Haiku is it like Auvia 6

OK now. I plugged in a real mouse. The scroll wheel doesn't work, 
but that wasnot promised. I can drag and drop files now. Also I could 
pull up the volume of both volume and CD controls and now I have 
sound sound.

I've never heard of a scroll wheel not working before. What kind 
of mice is it?

A 1 GHz machine is very powerful for Syllable, but it sounds like 
you may be hitting the bugs in the USB 2 driver. Do you have USB 
1 ports that you could try?

It seems to me that a major obstacle to operating system adoption 
is the difficulty of partitioning a hard drive, and potentially losing 
all the data from the other operating system partition. Raspberry 
pi is a $35 ARM system with an SD card designed to teach people how 
to program. It's an embedded system, so syllable would shine because 
it is light weight. One of these systems is powerful enough to output 
1080p video and extremely small.

I agree. It's tough to port Syllable Desktop to a different CPU architecture, 
but I'm considering porting Syllable Server

Kaj, not sure if it's of use to you, but I dug out the timings from 
the last time I built Qt (on a Linux host, 4 months ago):


$ ./configure -opensource -nomake examples -nomake demos -nomake 
docs -nomake translations
5 minutes

$ make -j2
34 minutes


That was on a moderate dual-core machine with 2GB ram and spinning 
disks. Not sure how much make could parallelise, but for a single-core 
machine roughly twice the build time will be a reasonable worst case 
estimation. I guess that otherwise the configure-to-build time ratio 
will still be roughly the same.

I'm starting to get the GUI build to work, and it takes a few hours 
here, but Syllable Desktop can't use the second core on this machine, 
and compiling is roughly half the speed as on Linux, anyway, so that's 
roughly consistent with your timing

The configuration can be sped up a bit by using -fast if you are 
using -nomake like that on significant parts

ah ha, I thought it is a "runtime" library with the whole Qt :-)

I have already provided a GUI for Red. It's fine if R3/View is rewritten 
for it, but I'm not going to do it

If you port it to Red, you'll only have a drawing engine, no widgets. 
I already have that in my Enlightenment port to Syllable, or in SDL 
or DirectFB if you combine it with some drawing library

It's a pretty integrated stack, but modularised into more than ten 
packages. The dependencies are pretty much the same as the basic 
dependencies for other toolkits such as GTK, and most of them are 
optional. Stuff such as FreeType and FontConfig:

Kaj - I do remember View 1.0 alpha with CID (predecessor to VID) 
on a Pentium 75, 130 - ran "acceptable". Cell phones have limited 
UI needs imo, I doubt AGG will be slow. Of course some heavy operations 
might drag some juice from the battery, as it is not accelerated. 
We now need to find the ways of how to get Cyphre's idea becoming 
a reality ...