AltME groups: search

It's a FIELD with a BTN in it's pane.

Yes, it is a very pretty application.  The only complaint that I 
have is that it is slow on my computer (1 Ghz, 512 RAM) Have you 
done anything to optimize it yet?

I'm not into optimising for now I'd like to get the script refactored 
first and then profile a bit.

I spend a whole day with trying to put the menu into real windows. 
Didn't get that right ...

Actually, for each window open Windows put a window icon into the 
task-bar. And currently, I think, you can't monitor the mouse ouside 
of REBOL windows without library calls. Hence the scrolling menus 
*in* the window.

it takes almost a second for any any menu to display and if you run 
your mouse up the menu then any submenus display so it takes 2-3 
seconds for it to pop up each submenu in this demo and then have 
it go away before I can do anything with the rest of the application. 
 Kinda reminisent of javascript menus...

How many applications do you have running?  I'm the ultimate multi-tasker... 
 If I'm going to use the application more than once in a day I like 
to leave it running so my current memory usage (without having his 
script launched) is over the amount of RAM that is available to me 
(I'm runnning some server applications on this here development machine.) 
so it is prolly my fault. ;~>

As for resizing: I'd like to leave that untouched until some standard 
resizing schemes available for REBOL. Currently there are the two 
approaches of Romano and Cyphre, I'm a little bit in favor of Romano's 
one, but that isn't finished work, it doesn't run with newer rebols.

well indeed what I think is that you menu posibilities are great 
but this kind of freaky thing must be part of a more complete solution 
(more thinked and more optimized !!))

I by myself about 3 month later make a port of the cyphre menu for 
rebgui so we can now that AGG is officially involve Cyphre into an 
optimization process to achive in short code a as flexible and advanced 
menu in term of design ;)

Pekr: Area with automatic scrolling. What do you mean ?  While selecting 
text by mouse ?

I yes, there is area-scroll-style demo in the library http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=area-scroll-style.r

It's fairly a demo because it works on most version. But it would 
be smaller for 1.3 (as there is patch in it for old versions).

The thing is - even Carl admited, it is usefull, but because of compatibility 
to old scripts, we can't have a change, becaue you would get scrollers 
two times ...

Witch script (there is a lot) ?

do http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/download-a-script.r?script-name=area-scroll-style.r

Carl, just a thought (and see what others think) -- it's a little 
odd looking at the messages with newest on top.  Another suggestion 
would be to do newest at bottom and put an anchor at the end so that 
incoming links start reading the page at the bottom to mirror the 
AltME view...

REBOL/View 1.3 for OS X! This is a big day!!! :-) Even if it's an 
alpha. Now I only miss one thing, before I can move my development 
entirely away from Windows, and that is AltME. :-)

Thanks a lot.

I still need to get used to the fact... it's all a bit abstract at 
the moment. But I'm sure this will change :-))

Now there will be someone. Wait a year, baby will know pretty well 
if you really pay attention while playing ;)

No, that's for sure. A friend of mine got twins... hard job.

Robert, congrats!!!   Doing your part to bring up that 1.3 birthrate. 
 If Germans don't do something soon, I suspect the landscape of the 
future will be a bunch of German's tended to by a lot of well trained 
and well paid Malaysians.  Not that this is a bad thing, just simply 
not a very different future than everyone expected.

I learned a little bit in school, which was too long ago

Sounds very cool Ingo! Won't have time to play for a while, but thanks!

I even used it to get different viewtops on different computers (I 
had rebol on a usb stick, and depending on the computers name, my 
local fold showed different icons)

REBOL [
	Title: "Local Index" 
	Type: 'index 
	dynamic: true 
	plugin-pane: 0.5
]

title "Local Files"
app 0.3

group "A" effect [multiply green] 
			 
group "B" icon %action.png

action "a\gitarre"    do [explore %/f/gitarre/]
action "a\view-root" do [explore view-root]
action "a\hamster"   do [call "H:\prog\Hamster\Hamster.exe"]

action "b\Internet" do [
	call "H:\Programme\offline-proxy-mm3\MM3-WebAssistant.bat"
	call "C:\Programme\discountsurfer\discountsurfer.exe"
	call "H:\Programme\Mozilla\Firefox\firefox.exe"
	call "C:\Programme\Opera75\Opera.exe"
] 


action "b\Firefox" do [	call "H:\Programme\Mozilla\Firefox\firefox.exe"] 
icon %web-surf-action.png

action "c\desktop"   do [editor view-root/desktop.r] 
action "c\imap"      do [editor %imap-handler.r] 

file "Info" %info.txt
file "T\Test" %test1.r 
file "T\Test2" %test2.r 
file "T\Test" %test3.r

; this is composed ----
file (form now/date) %dummy.r

action "Click me" #clickme do [
            alert "hi"

            [Text "This will be displayed within the desktop" [alert "ho"]]
          ]

action "Click me 2" #clickme2 do [
            alert "hi"
			; no return value, so nothing displayed in the desktop
          ]

action "PRINT" do [print "^/^/----------------------^/^/^/"]
action "prin somethin" do ["yea"]
file "t\Test" %dummy.r

; this will draw the plugin
app-draw [face /local cl-size][
   cl-size: to pair! reduce [face/size/x 50]
	face/pane: layout/offset[
		at 0x0 
	   text "00:00:00" cl-size center 255.155.40 with [
   		font: [size: 24]
	   	rate: 1
		   user-data: none
   		feel: make feel [
	   		engage: func [face action event i] [
		   		if user-data <> now/time [
			   		i: form user-data: now/time
				   	if 7 > length? i [append i ":00"]
					   face/text: i
   					show face
	   			]
		   	]
      	]
      ]
      text "TEST" 
		button "hi" [alert "you!"] 
   	button "CLOSE" [unview/all] 
	] 0x0 face/size 
]

; if you need to redraw after a resize, not yet used
app-resize [new-size][]

one thing about security: i would check that against a directory. 

 if find/match clean-path/file dirize view-root/local ["its my local 
 file, allow more"]

that computername-thing is smart. I even use directory too, making 
a url from both. 
  rejoin[comp:// read dns:// what-dir]

Only takes a few million years though to see the benefits

That's a fairly long investment timeframe.

Ok, buy a Toyata Prius instead then!

What's wrong with a bicycle?

Knocking off bicycles is a sport in some US towns.  I've been lucky...

I'm guessing you don't live in a city with lots of dead cyclists

I bought myself a mountain bike a couple of weeks ago.

On your own or by a car?

myself :(  Skidded against the curb when I hit it at a too shallow 
angle.

Yeah, so in such a place, it's reasonable to bicycle .. but in the 
USA .. when you have monster upteen lane highways... may not be so 
realistic.

I'm pretty glad I don't have a car these days. Except, you know, 
when I have to go somewhere more than a few miles away.

Graham -- sorry to hear about your injuries.

I can put the opposite case: my cycle odometer says I'm just coming 
up to 5,000 miles this year. With zero accidents or injuries; zero 
time stuck in traffic; total annual running costs of around USD150 
for servicing and parts; and a lot of health benfits.

In Chicago we have a mayor who is an avid cyclist. He has been repainting 
a lot of streets on the north side to give them cycle lanes. The 
problem is that many of these streets aren't wide enough for this. 
In some cases 4-lane roads were converted to 2-lane to make room 
for the bike lanes, in some cases parking was sacrificed. On many 
roads this has caused traffic to slow to a crawl. Of course these 
bike lanes are barely used, and mostly serve as a place for drivers 
getting out of their parked cars to stand. The mayor isn't affected 
by these problems though, as he is a southsider.

It's an interesting study, how different cultures use bicycles, and 
it's impact on health and common wellbeing. Here in Denmark, every 
child own a bicycle, we have bicycle paths everywhere. You can go 
from one end of Denmark to the other on bicycle without problems. 
Well, Denmark is rather flat too, highest point around 170 meters. 
In Copenhagen, you see people on bicycle everywhere, going to and 
from work or whatever. I live in the suburbs. Yesterday night I was 
going to the monthly kick-your-friends-butt-on-a-net-café in city, 
and when the trains were late due to technical problems, I ended 
up taking the bike. It's freedom!

Here's a great book about it:

http://www.greenwood.com/books/BookDetail.asp?dept_id=&sku=C8129&imprintID=

Badly designed cities are a problem......They need upgrading to the 
standards of the best.
Another site for some inspiration:
http://www.carfree.com/

I suspect that if you collected all the docs out there, you would 
have quite a decent book without having to write much yourself.

A lot of the docs are copyright RT are they not though ?

that's what I'm figuring... but I don't know if it hurts to try a 
slightly different approach than the manuals do: try to explain how 
the language works, that you have an executable, a console, the desktop, 
the various products and you do this and that to run REBOL programs.

is it possible to create a wikibook group?

a few US cities are bicycle non-hostile, here in Eugene, Oregon where 
I bike most every day of the year is one of them.

Graham, COMLib.r creates a routine with a callback in it. This limits 
the number of times COMLib.r can be run in a rebol session (ie. the 
console) to 6 (crashes on the 7th). Are you experiencing any "root 
block overflow" crashes ? (I imagine you are encapping it all.)

Just noticed callback crash is fixed in rambo. So it should not be 
a problem soon. :)

So maybe it was unintentional but you made a very robust website.

In that case, we'll have to thank Max's Remark ... of which I used 
a pre-release version :)

Pekr: "I don't mean action as looking into source, etc., that is 
a good part .... but simply prerequisite is to have installed View 
anyway, then download your .exe, put it somewhere, link to it etc."

hmm... wouldn't this be a neat marketing thing? If the iPod thing 
is serious, it could be posted on larger newssites, or is that inappropriate?

Carl wrote:

Q: "So, what should be the rules? "

A: Let's lock these down as fast as possible.  It would be great 
to post this in 2005.

Q: "Perhaps a limit on the size of the script."


A: I would like to suggest it has to be a free standing script (not 
a script that grabs other scripts, or other media.  Given AGG, I 
would like to suggest 32K (32,768 bytes) total.  It can be in multiple 
files, but the combined total must not exceed this.  Compatible with 
Rebol View 1.3.


Q: "It needs to be fast to download. We can setup a demo upload/download 
area on the View desktop."


A: I suggest not doing this, but rather put this on a public website. 
 We are trying to invite new developers, the less steps the better. 
 A copy can be on the view Desktop though.


Q: "So, what deadline date? Early January? Before students return 
to school." 


A: I vote the contest ends Dec 31st 11:59.59 (this should be 11:59.60 
but Rebol has a bug representing leap seconds, which happens this 
year).


Q: Who should judge the winner? Vote of the REBOL community or RT 
worldwide staff?


A: I think the people giving the prizes should not do the voting. 
 I can suggest using someone more famous, I can get one of my friends 
like Charles Fleischer the comedian to vote, or better David Brin 
(author of Earth, the postman, Transparent Society), they would both 
enjoy doing the voting I suspect.  


Lastly, I would like to offer the following:  Prolific will put up 
a brand new Xbox 360 (when available).


Instead of having a first and second place, rather, both can pick 
which prize they want.  


So the award wording would be "Win your choice of an Apple iPod video, 
or a Microsoft Xbox 360.  Awarded to the first and second place winners."


Third place should be a choice between SDK license, or Command (and 
in fact, the first and second place winners could chose these as 
well).

I could suggest a MacMini (but then the winner also gets to finish 
porting REBOL to it).

A few rebol promo items like t-shirts should be in the mix too.

If its a mac mini i learn graphics..

I would use seperate sizes for media and script. script maybe 8k? 
its a demo, and a month. media should be more. because one feature 
is, take a photo and do crazy things with it. a photo in 32k is not 
much. a script of 32k takes some month work (its a demo, so it should 
be "this does in 32k what others do in 32k*8, and that kind of compression 
takes time)

How about not only graphics demos, but networking too? Once there 
was a contest for a mud (text-moorg) in 16k, and some entries where 
playable and interesting they said.

And there should be multiple levels, best guru, best beginner, so 
students have more hope. (and i am a graphics-beginner, so - Ha! 
;)

how about word-length? if size is limited, demos become: insert d 
a: b + c. a low limit, medium length 3-5 chars?

I vote keep it simple, and based on the feedback of this one, we 
step it up a notch next year, which can be the day after if we get 
our asses in gear and post this ASAP! LOL

OK, so 1) Is there a web site set up for the RDC yet? 2) The deadline 
is 31-12/11:59:59. Is it GMT? 3) I hope that 32kB limitaion is final. 
Is that true? 3) Will the submited demos be available publicly before 
deadline? (I vote no). Hm, I've got only 14 days left. I should better 
hurry up ;)

Deadline should be GMT = 0!  As in England.

I agree demos can't be seen before deadline, but  we can post past 
demos.

I'm going to try to work with Carl to buld a clear page (on Rebol.com 
I hope).

I liked idea of a an ongoing weekly comp.. like back in 1999 http://web.archive.org/web/19991013041056/rebol.com/contest.html
. Haven't found the how to enter page though.

If RT were to create a dashboard, the community could create the 
widgets for this .. either as a weekly or monthly competition.

This would be a much more useful activity that demos that only provide 
eye candy.

In essence the dashboard could be a custom version of the Rebol Desktop.

btw - what is the status of OS-X version? IIRC it was high on priority 
list and it is long time since View was released last time. Is that 
so big problem to not implement timers for OS-X in half a year or 
how long it is since View release? ;-)

Do we have any rules, or even a deadline more accurate than "early 
january" for the proposed demo competition?

I know Reichart posted a comprehensive set of very sensible answers 
to Carl's questions, but the the blog (or elsewhere) hasn't been 
updated to adopt or adapt his suggestions.

Kru -- where has that actually been agreed?

All I see is a set of suggestions from Reichart that Carl has commented 
on as being "good"


As far as any non-REBOL3 reader is concerned the rules are in draft 
format, suggest an "early January" deadline, and are still open to 
change via suggestions to Gabriele:
http://www.rebol.net/article/0235.html


It would be very bad X-Internet messaging marketing if a winner was 
announced while some people were not aware the contest had even started.


A fair deadline would be one month from the official announcement 
of the competition. That hasn't happened yet and as far as I know, 
it was never Carl's intention to limit entry to REBOL3 participants.

guess it will be good for a 'Valentines Challenge' rahter than a 
year end challenge

A REBOL lovers'  date :-)


rebolek seems to have announced the competition using Reichart's 
suggestions:

http://rebolek.blogspot.com/2005/12/rebol-demo-contest-great-rdc-2005.html

But that seems to me to be premature given that Gabriele or Carl 
have not codified the rules or made an official announcement that 
the competition has started.

heh sunanda you found my blog? :) I've never linked it anywhere, 
because I'm still just testing it :) so I won't call that "official" 
announcement. Anyway, today is Wednesday, the Q&A day, so we can 
ask in RT Q&A group about RDC status.

Thanks for the clarification, Gabriele.

Nothing wrong with getting a head start, Kru.....But until we know 
the actual entry conditions we run the risk of producing something 
that won't be eligible (maybe that 32k size limit will really be 
2k for example)

GRaham said ->
http://www.compkarori.com/emr/


A free multi-user electronic medical records system - based upon 
Rebol, RebGUI, BEER, ComLib, LaTeX, Firebird etc .. currenlty in 
beta test.  This is the first release of the server exe.

shadwolf ->


can some  screenshots of the main points of the client interface 
can be added to the  website i think this will be a good promotion 
for rebgui and emr ^^

surprising unique/skip - kind of make-object for blocks. usefull 
in this cases:
!>>templ: ["a" 1] 
== ["a" 1]
!>>union/skip ["a" 2 "b" 2] templ 2
== ["a" 2 "b" 2]
!>>union/skip ["b" 2] templ 2      
== ["b" 2 "a" 1]

digicamsoft:  Mmm.. is that a picture of Michael Jackson on the front 
?

A feature I did in PhotosReViewer is to copy/paste between multiple 
instances; I like it, it's very convenient to sort. Many other things 
have been impoved, but not necessary visible.

Not a bad idea.

Simetrics: Great piece of work, Francois, and nicely documented too.

As you know, REBOL.org has been using it internally to offer alternatives 
for mistyped script names, eg:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=binladen

Joe <why not a forum here on altme ?> Forums have the advantage of 
immediacy, but they are hard to keep track of or to find again after 
a few months [Can anyone *easily* retreive info from the defunct 
REBOL and REBOL2 worlds?]

The REBOL.org script discussion feature is a little-used but useful 
way of holding a highly focussed discussion (about one script) that 
will be easy to find again in the future.

It's worth experimenting with both [Altme groups and REBOL.org discussioon] 
to find the natural home for specific discussions.

Alan, nice idea -- it would make the content more widely available 
again.

But there may be a problem....Those worlds were set up as private, 
and there was nothing in the joining conditions that said the content 
would be made available more widely.

With this world, we have the convention of marking groups as [web-public] 
or not, but the older worlds have no such convention.

So it would be very difficult to contact the original posters and 
get all their agreement.

Could that be a script everyone can run locally?

Volker:if you mean the script to run locally-yes-I was wriiten by 
Didier and should be in the library.I guess an option would be for 
me to convert the groups to html-send to rebol.org-and then have 
the posters what they want.Only problem with that is some are no 
longer here.Just looked in the library and did not find his script.If 
you want,send me a private message and will send

I overlooked that aspect., the group is web-public. As you infer, 
a group can easily be made web public at any time so it's better 
not to trust AltMe's privacy except within private conversations.

wow sounds like RT is making a lot of progress lately.

make it a wish in RAMBO

Gabriele, top is plain text.  It prints a deposit slip.

your code above works here, with top being a text string.

Louis: it's possible that there is some incopatibility with the newer 
versions of rebol. I only tested it with at most 1.2.10 so far. I'll 
see if i can find so time to update it for 1.3 (the code needs to 
be changed for the new image datatype, for example; as a side effect 
it will be much faster with images, though).

what you have to do is: extend the typesetter so that it can read 
font descriptions and build glyph width and kerning pairs tables 
(Volker has an AFM file parser); extend the dialect so that it can 
somehow recognize and load external fonts; study the PDF reference 
to see what you need to do to include the font in the PDF file (at 
the very least, you have to provide a font object; i'm not sure if 
this is sufficient, but i hope that the reader is able to load external 
fonts once you give it the font name and description; in theory you 
should embed the font into the PDF file, which usually means parsing 
the font file and so on)

I'd like to announce the imminent public availability of distro-bot. 
 


A powerfull tool for version control (of scripts and any other file) 
and project distribution & packaging  

:-D

I'd like to know if any of you want to be alpha testers for the up 
and comming version, which is a result of several YEARS of fine tuning, 
 and now combining, a rich set tools.

CURRENT FEATURES (partial list):
General:
-----------------------
-non intrusive, does not force any programing onto you.

    ex:  * no need to have version in header, and can still do version 
    control

           * history format is user specified, massive configurability
-encapped (windows) application, so its easy to use.

-no external dependencies (ex: zip archive is embeded, and coded 
in rebol :-)


Automated:
-----------------------
-script versioning
-file backup (versioned)
-zip archival
-file management

-creation of "packages" (create dirs, copy files, archive, prebol, 
slim-link, encap, etc)

-header manipulation (including history, date, version, and any field 
you want to enforce)
-system calls
-file parsing, replacing info tags.

Flexible setup:
-------------------------
-cascading configuration (global, user, project, + per file)

-config locking, prevents overiding configs in cascaded setups (project 
manager can create rules which no one can break)
-command-line arguments overides for many configs

-user set configs for most if not all features (ex: history format, 
date format).

and much more

I will have a working version that has most of the framework re-implemented, 
 TODAY.

I would be interested...I'm having a hard time keeping track of my 
project..its my first major/large/encapped project so I'm still tying 
to find my groove with this versions thing

external as in a few people trying it out with high-level of support 
on my part.

I had quite a few implementation setbacks yesterday... :-(


But I finally put the lid on a part of distro-bot which was really 
complex.  so I can now concentrate on the actual features.

I would be also interested, I don't have a lot of time to devote 
to it, but I would try to find some

I have reached a stable state, at which I can now finish the initial 
version... but that will have to wait until I do a few other rebol 
projects first, so I'll probably play on the release on sunday, and 
provide private download links to those who want it .


if it works on your systems, you should quickly grow addicted to 
it.