AltME groups: search

Andreas, there is apparently a difference between code/data that 
is considered to be part of the interpreter and...

 - yes, hat is exactly what I tried to underline, and I especially 
 wanted to cite these:


If a programming language interpreter is released under the GPL, 
does that mean programs written to be interpreted by it must be under 
GPL-compatible licenses?
When the interpreter just interprets a language, 
the answer is no. The interpreted program, to the interpreter, is 
just data; a free software license like the GPL, based on copyright 
law, cannot limit what data you use the interpreter on.

...However, 
when the interpreter is extended to provide “bindings” to other facilities...


- I have to emphasize *when the interpreter is extended* and *other 
facilities* - i.e. other code not considered to be a part of the 
interpreter. Also, code present in the interpreter does not qualify 
as *interpreter extension* providing bindings to *other facilities*

I created a "Licensing" group to move the licensing-related discussions 
to, so as to free up Ann-Reply again to discuss other more recent 
announcements.

A make-extension function to wrap the compilation of the extension 
would require the Red compiler to be ported to R3. In the end, this 
won't work anyway, because it's going to be ported to Red itself

The R2 DLL interface is rather specific functionality: it implements 
dynamic loading and binding of libraries. This could be implemented 
as a specific R3 extension, written in Red

Currently it only works on Windows, and you need the dyn-lib-emitter 
branch of Red/System
 I did n't know you have a Windows machine ;)

On several occasions in my life, I've programmed on a machine I don't 
have

Carl put a lot of energy into building his island, on which he could 
remain isolated from the big, bad world. With the source opened, 
it could be argued that this was in vain

(Replying to AdrianS in Announce) R3's extension mechanism is designed 
to make it more possible to make and compile extensions that will 
continue to work even when R3 is updated. Even with the source open, 
that is still a value. The command dispatch model is also really 
useful for implementing native dialects and JIT compilers. The marshalling 
mechanism is also reasonably fast by FFI standards. It could, however, 
use better marshallers for series, and more datatype coverage.

Henrik, yes, for a number of the examples you need to install the 
corresponding libraries. I'm particularly interested in library names 
for examples that don't work yet

For most of the graphical example, you need to install GTK. GThread 
is a component from GLib, which is usually included in a GTK+ distribution

was executing them from a console wrapping cmd.exe - there is a popup 
when executing directly

AdrianS: since Vista, Windows is hiding some runtime errors from 
console, you can check in "Event Viewer" if you think a crash occured.

Just noticed I have a folder (Red and within that there is a folder 
System)  :D

Kaj, the fossil source browser that you linked to has a download 
option for the current version as an archive - for those who don't 
want to bother installing fossil - i.e. they don't need to install 
file by file

Henrik: error reproduced on a Windows XP SP3...it is strange because 
such function is supposed to be part of Windows since Windows 95: 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/239ffwa0(v=vs.80).aspx

From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/abx4dbyh(v=vs.80).aspx:


What is the difference between msvcrt.dll and msvcr80.dll?

The msvcrt.dll 
is now a 

known DLL," meaning that it is a system component owned and built 
by Windows. It is intended for future use only by system-level components."


Looks like another Windows oddity, so I guess XP users needs to install 
msvcr80.dll...testing that on my fresh new XP image.

Arnold, please try to give a description of what works and what doesn't. 
But only after installing the relevant libraries

Here's a workaround you could try:

Rebol [Purpose: {make wikibook entry}
Author: "Max Vessi"
version: 2.0.0
]
my?: func [
    "Prints information about words and values."
    'word [any-type!]

    /local value args item type-name refmode types attrs rtype temp
][       
    temp:  copy ""
    if all [word? :word not value? :word] [word: mold :word]

    if any [string? :word all [word? :word datatype? get :word]] [
        types: dump-obj/match system/words :word
        sort types
        if not empty? types [
            print ["Found these words:" newline types]
            exit
        ]
        print ["No information on" word "(word has no value)"]
        exit
    ]
    type-name: func [value] [
        value: mold type? :value
        clear back tail value
        join either find "aeiou" first value ["an "] ["a "] value
    ]
    if not any [word? :word path? :word] [
        append temp reduce [mold :word "is" type-name :word]
        exit
    ]

    value: either path? :word [first reduce reduce [word]] [get :word]
    if not any-function? :value [

        append temp reduce [uppercase mold word "is" type-name :value "of 
        value: "]

        append temp either object? value [ reduce ["^/" dump-obj value] ] 
        [mold :value]
        exit
    ]
    args: third :value
    append temp  "= USAGE: = ^/ "

    if not op? :value [append temp reduce [ uppercase mold word " "] 
    ]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        if :item = /local [break]

        if any [all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] refinement? :item] 
        [
            append temp reduce [append mold :item " "]

            if op? :value [append temp reduce [append uppercase mold word " "]
	    value: none]
        ]
        args: next args
    ]
    append temp  "^/" 
    args: head args
    value: get word
    append temp "^/= DESCRIPTION: = ^/"
    either string? pick args 1 [
        append temp reduce [first args]
        args: next args
    ] [
        append temp "^/''(undocumented)''^/"
    ]

    append temp reduce [ "^/^/"uppercase mold word " is " type-name :value 
    " value."]
    if block? pick args 1 [
        attrs: first args
        args: next args
    ]
    if tail? args [exit]
    while [not tail? args] [
        item: first args
        args: next args
        if :item = /local [break]
        either not refinement? :item [

            all [set-word? :item :item = to-set-word 'return block? first args 
            rtype: first args]
            if none? refmode [
		append temp "^/= ARGUMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'args
            ]
        ] [
            if refmode <> 'refs [
                append temp "^/= REFINEMENTS: =^/"
                refmode: 'refs
            ]
        ]
        either refinement? :item [	   	  
            append temp reduce ["*'''" mold item "'''"]

            if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [" -- " first args] 
	    args: next args]
            append temp "^/"
        ] [
            if all [any-word? :item not set-word? :item] [
                if refmode = 'refs [append temp "*"]
                append temp reduce ["*'''" :item "''' -- "]

                types: if block? pick args 1 [args: next args first back args]

                if string? pick args 1 [append temp reduce [first args ""] 
		args: next args]
                if not types [types: 'any]
                append temp rejoin [" (Type: " types ")"]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    if rtype [append temp reduce ["^/RETURNS:^/^-" rtype]]
    if attrs [
        append temp "^/= (SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES) =^/"
        while [not tail? attrs] [
            value: first attrs
            attrs: next attrs
            if any-word? value [
                append temp reduce  ["*'''" value "'''"]
                if string? pick attrs 1 [
                    append temp reduce [" -- " first attrs]
                    attrs: next attrs
                ]
                append temp "^/"
            ]
        ]
    ]
    append temp "^/= Source code =^/"
    append temp  reduce ["<pre>" join word ": "]
    if not value? word [print "''undefined''" exit]
    either any [native? get word op? get word action? get word] [
        append temp reduce ["native" mold third get word]
    ] [append temp reduce  [ mold get word "</pre>"] ]
    editor temp
    ;write clipboard://  temp
    exit
]

E.g. the 'ON variable is just a "synonym" for #[true], exactly like 
the 'TRUE variable. However, that hardly is the case of the 'ALIVE? 
variable.

OK, I think that you are welcome to register, login and add the description 
you prefer. It's a wiki, not an hand made Bible. ;-)

connect.r file? - I do not see such a file in the SDK

>>source dead?
dead?: not alive?

I think it means that if alive? is just true you do not need 'alive? 
Most of the time when you run your code it should state that it is 
alive? 

But it is not a value that is always true, like Endo's example for 
a connection status shows.

That's a point. I would be glad to participate with other people 
in charge as my time permits.

I think Doc is even too busy to collect a Rebzie ;)
Are we happy with the chosen license?

It seems Carl is still not much OK with the os-ing REBOL, but understands, 
it is a needed move?

He doesn't like the development model. OS projects have generated 
a lot of crap. Half of good design is saying no, and removing stuff. 
OS projects often do design by committee, and that design style doesn't 
say no enough.

well, he won't be able to control a mess created in any forks of 
REBOL, but I would think that with a small group of people as the 
only committers to the official REBOL, he could be assured of reasonably 
good results

As long as there is a canonical repository, there is at least one 
place to go for the proper implementation.

encapping is important for my bussines
 - encapping is not a problem in R3 either

Well, GUI is also important for my work. Is there an encapper for 
R3 anyway? Or you mean put script & r3.exe in a package and write 
a batch?

yes, encapping and tasks should have a high priority. R2 has one 
but the sources are not free. perhaps we can convince carl to open 
the encapper too.

On the site from Chriss Ross-Gill there is a way to make one bundle

Thanks MaxV, that will be a great help.

Arnold, you can downlad the Prezi presentation as a presentation, 
but you need internet for youtube videos. http://prezi.com/xyuhedfy0wmu/rebol/

Geomol, you forgot to put a link to appstore on your game page ;)

James, yes buttons are made with DRAW in REBOL. Also the shutter 
button, which I first took a picture of from my Nikon FM3A camera, 
and then modelled in DRAW from scratch by looking at the grayscale 
in the picture.

press the white balance button for effectful photos.


Effectful is not a normal english word. Maybe something like "to 
change the color balance"? I'm not a photographer, so can't say what 
the best terminology is.

This makes it easier to judge, if a photo is in focus or not when 
zooming in on a photo
suggest:

This makes it easier to judge if a photo is in focus, when zooming 
in on a photo

 With pinch gesture


Should it be " With a pinch gesture" or " With the pinch gesture"?

Thanks a lot, Gregg! I got some similar suggestions from a friend. 
I'll look into it tomorrow, when I'm less tired.


The JPEG is a 85% format, meaning it's not lossless, but keeps 85% 
of the original information in the images. The TIFF is a 100% format, 
meaning 100% lossless.

Gregg, I made some fixes, incl. the ones you suggested. If you wanna 
take a look:
http://niclasen.name/gcam.html

:) It's hard to get the best wording. When I read "the iPhone default 
compression is 85%", I would expect the JPEG file to be 85% the size 
of the uncompressed TIFF file. This is not the case. An uncompressed 
TIFF file from GCam is 23.9 MB, a JPEG is 10x smaller at around 2 
MB. The quality is 85% meaning you loose 15% information, if you 
save as JPEG and not TIFF.


I went with "The JPEG format is compressed at 85% quality setting, 
as is customary on the iPhone."

Thanks again, guys.

porting of R3 takes 5 minutes, yet the only port which happened was 
Amiga, and ARM or other platforms never ever happened [...]. why 
Carl did not find 5 minutes to do the port?


1. An ARM port was done, supposedly. 2. Porting is one thing, supporting 
a port is another.

I can see an aproach of how to steal the thunder from ppl being eventually 
interested in Red
- then your sight is a little bit far-fetched

Ladislav - in 2004, when R# was slowly taking off, Carl published 
a blog article or announcement, describing R2 plugin feature. The 
supposed release was "imminent". Prior to that, Carl even contacted 
Doc to eventually stop working on R#, or so I remember. Of course, 
the announcement was just to distract ppl from alternative, keeping 
them interested in REBOL. 


Later on, I several times rightly identified some blog-post, whose 
purpose was nothing more, than to buy some time for RT, where in 
fact promissed things were not delivered. 


So - of course it is just my speculation, but with the history of 
R3 development I find it really curious to try to hype users to believe, 
that port to ARM could happen in 5 minutes, when RT was not able 
to deliver it is 5-6 years of R3 existence? And if so, it sounds 
a bit unfair to me ...


Simply put - wish Red, R3, World, whatever clone a success. It is 
just that what I would like to see is - a realistic estimates on 
any side ....

Porting takes 5 minutes
 getting to that point takes a lifetime.

Thanks Arnold. I will have to take a look at it.

Porting the core takes about 5 minutes since it's just a matter of 
getting the compiler settings right. There is almost ne platform-specific 
code in the core. Porting the host code to a new platform can sometimes 
take a rewrite, depending on the application model of the platform.

But in any case, I see no indication as to why "porting to (Linux) 
ARM" should _not_ be a matter of 5 minutes, and I also see no real 
reason as to why not to believe Carl when he last claimed to have 
done such a port.

Good news: ARM compilers are better now too. They were a bit iffy 
back then.

Arnold, just FYI, I'm tinkering with your redcompiler script, and 
will send you my version soon. When I started with REBOL, many people 
were kind enough to pass on suggestions, to make my code more REBOLish, 
so I try to do the same from time to time. It's not a critique of 
your code, just ideas you can accept or reject.

Thank you!

Gregg, I left the ** comments as clarification and did not spend 
a lot of time to consider if they were necessary or not. I'll have 
a look at them and clear the comments if they do not add to the flow.

Thanks Kaj. I will probably set up a test env for this, since I don't 
want to install all dependencies for this in my main env.

Half a Raspberry, or run two emulators! Good progress Kaj.

I was interested as a curiosity, but probably not for my own use.

Doc, it's firmly an 8-bit CPU emulator, but it can certainly serve 
as a general example to implement other emulators in Red/System

It seems mostly meant for testing RebCode. It lacks a lot of functionality 
needed for emulating a real machine

Yes, my em6502.r was a test of the speed of rebcode. It was meant 
as a proof-of-concept. I never used it much. It's for the rebcode 
found in REBOL/View 1.3.50, which was the first rebcode version afaik. 
So not compatible with later rebcode.


There also is an assembler: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/language/asm6502.r

and a MOS 6502 workbench: http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/language/m6502wb.r

, if anyone can find some use of it.

I also made a Z80 emulation using rebcode http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=galaga.r

Kaj, thanks. 6502 brings back great memories. I got my first and 
only published program in the June 1986 Compute Gazzette with a C64 
program called Quick Key.

Magazines were fun then .. now you have to do a random walk across 
the web

Robert, gray text on a black background is very hard to read ....

Of course, but Red will always be a lot slower than Red/System

The block of headers is not screened for dups and currently could 
use a little screening for unnamed columns (it would be better to 
return none rather than an empty word). Fortunately, they don't matter 
in your code unless you want them to.

Hi Brian! In order to make the ODBC extension bootable, I've commented 
out the last lines in src/boot/odbc.r, because otherwise R3 chokes 
on the word EXTEND not being bound to a context on boot time. It's 
not available as SYS/EXTEND either, but of course, there must be 
some way to use EXTEND.

I got a slightly different message when I tried it with 3G instead 
of WiFi, for some reason:


>> do http://development.saphirion.com/experimental/oneliner-prime-numbers.r

** Access error: cannot open: tcp://development.saphirion.com:80 
reason: -12

** Where: open open unless sync-op either read either read-decode 
case load -apply-do
** Near: open conn port

yes, networking is not done yet.

You just download a *.r script (or copy on your sdcard in the phone). 
Then you can just clik on the script file and file association requester 
should popup so you can run *.r scripts just by clicking on them 
instead of execution from console.

That device has a slow 600 MHz processor

Well, it's not a phone :)

Daughter has a HP touchpad running Android.  Should work?

Robert and Cyphre : As already stated under the Android group I have 
succeessfully tested the new console based R3 for Android under my 
Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet - running Android 3.2. works well 
- thanks again a lot for this achievement - I wil shortly follow 
with some donation - simply waiting for my next salary deposit ...

Bo, you can make a donation to us via http://development.saphirion.com

Endo, thanks a lot for this! :-)

Nice work Kaj. I'm working on Unicode support for the tokenizer, 
so the console should get at least Unicode support for the DevCon. 
I plan to write a real cross-platform console engine as nobody has 
stepped out to build one so far, I guess it should be ready for the 
DevCon.

Robert, when you say that I can make a donation to Saphirion, does 
that help Cyphre with his Android port?  Or is that a different fund? 
 It sounds like it is the same fund because Endo's $100 donation 
added some days to the Android port, but I just wanted to be clear.

There is a different fund for Red as well, correct?

Red is a different fund, it goes to Dockimbel ....

Where is the Red fund link located?  I created a new checklist called 
"Donation Links" so we can direct people there when they want to 
know where to donate.

It's been a difficult year financially, but I wanted to donate something, 
so just donated $20 to Saphirion for the Android port.

Thanks a lot Bo! To make things easier, all donations for the R3/Droid 
port I'm wokring on are going thru Saphirion's webpage.

Bo, thanks a lot! That's really great.

A very kind gift to the REBOL community.

I wrote Carl a mail to tell him about it.

The version is already appended to the executable names, that's the 
-g.... suffix. For these automated builds, the Rebol version is currently 
rather meaningless, it will always be 2.101.0.


I'll think about appending a platform key to the binary names themselves.

maybe, simply adding a folder with the date of any automated builds. 
 this way we can easily backtrack any issues in time.

so typically a build is just three steps:
- fetching an r3-make
- make make
- make clean prep

debug builds: maybe. i'd like to get this added to the mainline sources 
first. once that's done, i'm still not so sure if they really are 
that useful at the moment, as I think they won't help much without 
a build environment set up.

and maybe a link to how to use the symbols with process explorer 
- this would allow relatively non-technical people report readable 
stack traces on a hang, for example

maybe point to this, if you add symbols:


http://superuser.com/questions/462969/how-can-i-view-the-active-threads-of-a-running-program

I'm good with Fork's logo.  If the community agrees on a different 
one in the future, it could be changed.  Some projects, like Cobian 
Backup, have a different logo for each major release. :-O

Kaj, where exactly is the window32 binary in http://archives.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/dir?ci=tip
 ?


Every click on a .exe takes me to more and more html pages.  Most 
confusing.

What's stopping a push now of what we have of the R3 gui?

Need to clean up and properly re-integrate a few bits.

Looking for a direct link that I can give someone to download the 
latest red and red/system windows binaries

Yes, but that's a 6502 emulator ... not really what I want!  And 
the other thing was called "empty.exe" which doesn't seem to do anything

Looking for a direct link that I can give someone to download the 
latest red and red/system windows binaries

That's a manifest, not an executable

It is just a minor bug already referenced: https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/issues/383

I will have a look at this CGI capability of Red soon!

Perhaps Arnold will come up with a custom standard generator