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once the reboot is complete we can make a test if you want to

Yes. VLC is good player in a lot of platforms and it also plays QT? 
Show what is the advantage of ShoutCast?

speed and bw is a matter of the codec you choose H.264 is very high 
quality and very ligth. So much that it is used and become the standard 
for mobile cell phones.

I doubt is a cpu speed thing. Is must be bw, probably on my end. 
I have over 300+ remote units sending pkts to my server every 30 
secs. I am planning ot buy more bw but I have been lazy ...

I only get one picture of you and then it freezes and dies. With 
QT you will get on buffering and play a little then it will back 
to buffering...

(In a bw starve situation)

would be cool to make a rebol multimedia server like it was proposed 
last year :)

This time a got more frames, but the image quality is really bad. 
I have a lot of 32x32 pixel color blocks...

Then a bunch of errors that for some weird reason I can't copy here. 
Maybe Unicode chars.

But I got a bunch of those that seemed to be moving...

hum so it's vnc witch have a codec problem ;)

Regarding subtitling. That can be done also in Real Time with QT 
we just need a better QT-Broadcaster.

well VLC is maybe problematic or have a codec problem

yes but if you have ugly squares every where that means that the 
image is not decoded properly

 because usually codecs divide the image in sections and reconstruct 
 it by multiple phases from bigger grain (bigger square blocks) to 
 smaller (pixels). So my suspicion on the failure on the codec part. 
 It maybe a problem of not receiving enough data (frame drops or pkt 
 drops), or problems with jitter and interleaving.

Or maybe a very bad implementation.  Don't know enough about Shoutcast 
/ VLC combo to know more.

I will go with Shoutcats if I see a benefit. So far I don't see one.

yes I understand I'm a win user for win/linux environnement it's 
quite good to use shoutcast but maybe MacOSX tools are still too 
young

A set of requirements which is quite demanding.

we had two problems with QT last year: first one, on the first speech 
the audio codec was not set up correctly. this was fixed later on. 
second, we had to resort using the mic on the camera (which is a 
cheap camera after all...), and of course the lighting in the room 
was not good at all for a camera (it was dark to allow us to see 
the slides)

if Jaime can bring his laptop this year too, i think we can still 
use QT as it was already proven to work. also, if we manage to have 
a second camera, i'd like to have a high quality recording (on tape 
maybe) that can be encoded later for best quality.

the wireless mic I bought for the PA system at the conference ended 
up having a bad lapel mic, and testing the system revealed to me 
that the earpiece was actually a better mic (  strange, but true 
) but no one else knew that, so the first speech did not have the 
PA working, because the Lapel mic was used instead of the earpiece.

The screen in the room was highly reflective, a plastic, which gave 
a bright spot..so angling the cameras better, or a non-reflective 
screen would help.

One option is to provide commentary text, images and links a few 
seconds after they are shown.

For synchro skating competitions that we can't attend, we follow 
them using Team Germany's Live Ticker.
http://www.teamberlin-1.de/live_frame.php?ev=2&lang=en

This is a very slick PHP application that has photos taken at the 
arena and broadcasts them  a few seconds later.

Some dedicated fans from Germany were providing the photos (JPEGs), 
scores and bilingual (at least English and German) commentaries.

When new content is published, a message appears at the top to inform 
the viewer that it is available.

They hit the refresh hyperlink and they are up-to-date.   From the 
timestamps, our lag time to Canada was sometimes as low as 45 seconds 
after the event occurred i.e. we are getting commentary results about 
a given team's skating while they are still on the ice.

This site reports http://www.teamberlin-1.de/en/cup-of-berlin/that 
4,000 viewers followed the Berlin Cup in Jan-2005 using Live Ticker.

Maybe something like that would work for DevCon2005.

Is there a list of participants online (or where there be one)?

May I suggest someone (Gregg, you) do a short one on Roxy

good idea! Gregg would be best, but i could do a quick intro...

before the end of next week, i need to have a rough idea of how many 
persons are interested in the "visit rome" plan (see http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/register.html); 
it would be good to have an idea of how many persons need an hotel 
room in milan too - if you don't tell me, you'll have to work this 
part out by yourself then.

As you see I got a slot but no topic yet... I have some ideas, but 
I'm not sure what you are interested in most. So, hey, why not ask? 
:-))

Ok, ideas I have are:


1. Is commercial success of Rebol bound to open-source the interpreter?
2. make-doc-pro browser as a base for an IOS/xpeers based Wiki
3. The RPC idea - 12 months later


If you have an other idea let me know :-)) I'm open to think about 
all kind of topics.

We should have a discussion forum slot and/or hack-a-solution session. 
 It will be good if we could have a project to tackle together, besides 
presenting . This could help us either build new mezz, or prototype 
some ideas. We could post ideas on what to do in the hack session 
ahead of time.

about discussion: i hope we can have plenty of that after 4 pm. :) 
maybe we can have a room at the hotel or something like that to sit 
around a table and just talk

2) No, Shadwolf  and I have done a Reblet that renders MDP documents. 
Something like his MDP-GUI. The idea is to use such a browser (with 
an attached editor) as base for a x-internet wiki system. Distributed 
via IOS.

plan for Rome sounds really attractive, although in my case there 
are several factors - how to get to Italy (probably by car, but I 
can't travell myself that far a way ...) and money - I invested into 
Xidys and now I am short for money :-)

ah, that could be interesting. You have some experience in that area? 
That is really a good question - "how to get rebol succesfull"? Today 
I posted another links to article talking about Ruby (Rails) and 
such arctile mentions Python, PHP, Perl, but noone ever mentions 
Rebol - I wonder why ... - so - good topic!

we could shorten some talks if you think a hask session would be 
better to have.

Gabriele, if and when you get the technical details for a webcast, 
let me know. My family has 2 vacations planned and so I won't be 
able to make it. : ^(

I think that a hack session will be really useful it will teach us 
how do we collaborate when meeting in person.

but... i have seen a couple of new streaming servers around, i'll 
make sure to test them out.

*hack will be a completely uncontrolable experiment ;-)

And on a voluntary basis.

RebGUI: That's a very good idea. IMO RebGUI is the most active and 
broad-based community project of the last 12 months.

And it adds a lot of value to speed-up development time for applications.

A subproject will be skins for RebGUI. That way we can split the 
team.

multi-column table, and a data-form dialect.

Not sure I understand correctly what is a "hack session" !
Can one connect me ?

Gabriele - thank you so much for planning a sightseeing trip in Rome 
and negotiating a reduced hotel rate.  That is really above and beyond 
the call of duty.  My one piece of feedback is regarding the schedule. 
 I helped plan Handango's annual conferences and the one thing I 
learned early on is that bathroom breaks are very important.  I noticed 
the schedule has no breaks.  You might want to add in a few 15 minute 
breaks, otherwise you'll have people walking in and out of the sessions.

(breaks were somewhat "implied" but i guess that's a very bad idea. 
better to have them explicitly in the schedule.)

DideC: "hacking" together at a project, i.e. writing something together.

Gabriele, is it too late to add a presentation slot for me? (I thought 
I already had one (-  ) Topic would be:

	Building & selling REBOL-based solutions - theory and practice.

or if folks preferred:

	Building REBOL-based community projects - RebGUI case study.

petr: cyphre is looking for a topic... so maybe you can suggest that 
to him :)

With all of the talk about new widgets etc, maybe Cyphre would be 
interested in a tutorial or introduction into building new View or 
RebGUI widgets?

Gabriele could you post a link for the italian fligth search engine?

I am looking for a roommate to split costs.

If you select sharing a room and check "suggest ..." I will suggest 
possible roommates as soon as i have enough submissions.

Registration is now available via a web form, too.

in all cases REbGUI must be presented as a main effort of cooperativ 
work on a bettring VID project that commes from the ground (people 
like me the basement or rebol coder community and not REbol Technology) 
This kind of work are essential iMO for a better diffusion of rebol 
and to make lighter the work of CARL upon REBOL VM ... Do carl can 
handle all alone ? Can't we apport a sort pf answer and show to rebolers 
and to RT that cooperativ work and hudge project are pretty usefull 
for educationnal purposes but for rebol large diffusion and adoption 
by the professional area ?

MDP-BRowser is a good tool too allready on work but even with the 
remaining bugs I will try to solve soon this open a new scope for 
IOS use an professionnal share working.

now, you'll regret not being a speaker. :P

so... if you were waiting to register because you want to wait for 
paying... please register now, and you will pay later. (in a couple 
weeks, a month for speakers that only need to pay for the banquet.)

Does it plan "visit of Milan" for the Wenesday or Thursday ?

And so for hotel, it mean one night at Milan or all at Treviglio 
?

All this for a question of total cost for my italian trip!

From Mario: "I think that coming in a hotel in Treviglio is cheaper. 
The return Treviglio-Milano railway ticket is around 10€ and the 
Milan 24h underground/bus/tram ticket is 3€ so DideC can save money 
as the train usually takes 30 to 45 minutes from Treviglio to Milano.


About the visit in Milano I can help for sure during the afternoon 
and evening. If there are a few people I can go with them and ttake 
them back with the car. If there are a lot of people willing to see 
Milan the days before the conference I can make a plan for Milan 
visit.


How much can be the budget for Milano tour? Leaving out the 3€ 
there are free things to visit as museums (should pay) or the castle 
(free or paid guided tour) as the Cathedral lift to see "il Duomo 
e la Madunina"...


I just need to know how much time, when, who and an aproximate budget 
per day."

€ = euro

I think 30 uero per day for the visists could be enough.
I 
assume hotel and transports as fixed cost (60 euros at most per day 
unless one gets the royal suite deluxe).
For food one can choose 
between 5 euro at McDonalds or 100 euro for an expensive restaurant. 
With 40 euros a day you can eat a lot and still choose very good 
food. I think 25 to 30 euros per day is the right choice.

I'm away 
for an hour (must eat)...

I've two questions. 1) I plan to come Saterday 24th at Rome and already 
visit things in Rome with my wife even if I'll visit Rome with the 
group on Wednesday 28th. Can I make a reservation for hotel Virginia 
with registration form of DevCon2005 website with your interresting 
price (90€ for a double room) for my whole stay in Rome (5 nights)

And just a thing... Great work  for the new version of the website 
! Thanks Gabriele !

2) the idea is to visit anything we can do in one day on that line. 
maybe i'll spend a day on that line before september so that i can 
have an idea of the time we have and so on.

VID styles and how to design them for a library :-))

Hallo all, I'm trying to plan a city tour in Milano for people attending 
the DevCon and arriving early or leaving late.

Who plans to go for a walk in Milan? Any special request? I will 
make you use feet a lot and 15 to 20 euros for transports and tickets.

Please register on http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/register.html
and put as many notes as possible so Gabriele can forward me the 
info and requests from you. We are finishing with the Milan tour 
details and we ha a few days left for othel reservations.

Gabrielle,  the deadline of 31st of august is a tough one for me... 
I'm still trying to secure funds so I'm not even sure I can make 
it.  what happens after the 31 ? can I still make reservations the 
week after? I mean, its still 2 months away...

Maxim, it's July 31st, not August 31st so it's a matter of days.

About the reason we are hurry: on September end October there are 
a lot of fairs in Northern Italy so hotel availability is very hard.

Maxim: i think it's easier to cancel a hotel reservation than it 
is to try to get it on september. anyway, after 31st you can still 
register for the devcon but you're on your own with the hotel reservations 
(we can still try to help you, but no guarantees)

i know the deadline is short but like Mario says hotels may fill 
up and then you may not be able to find a room anymore.

Hotal cancelation shouldn't be a problem. Normal in EU is until same 
day 18:00 it's OK to cancel without a no-show fee.

We'll be coming into Rome, then up to Milan, and staying an extra 
day. I'm sure my wife would enjoy a tour, so sign us up.

we will be leaving 2/Oct/2005/19:20, is that a good day for a tour?

i think we can do a tour on oct 2nd too.

[Just sent confirmation emails to whoever has registered. Sorry for 
not doing that earlier. If you have registered and haven't get a 
confirmation (either via email or here from me directly), please 
register again.]

I want a job :((( ...

Mario, please sign my partner and I up as well (adding a day to our 
hotel reservation as required).

We should make a new form for date changes? At most on Tuesday we 
need to reserve the hotel's rooms...

Well, should we give it a quick try ?

but now I have another question to brainstorm - I wanted to popularise 
rebol a bit on OSNews.com - they are very open and their site is 
being visited some 100K hits a month. I wanted to post View 1.3.2. 
news, but asked for advice here on AltME, as OS-X port may not be 
ready for public adoption. On the other hand, other products get 
posted even with much smaller updates. So the question is - should 
we post REBOL 3.0 news? Some may say - pots, once there is some product 
to download. But - REBOL 3.0 is also about documentation, and the 
announcement Carl posted asks also for C coders and other kind of 
help. As a side note, we could point ppl to try View 1.3.2 - at least 
Windows and Linux users could be attracted. What do others think? 
Should we wait further? But that way we will not get any publicity 
ever ....

yep, the announcement should probably go to osnews. or digg or whatever. 
:) maybe old rebolers would like to come back to have a look.

If an announcement should be made, I think some time could be spent 
dwelling over the 8 years of experience gathered with the current 
design flaws in REBOL and the intent to eliminate them. how many 
other languages go through such a rewrite effort to eliminate design 
bugs?

one might think its lucky the community isn't bigger, otherwise such 
a rewrite might not be possible

I have added some funcionality to the imap handler. I guess I will 
have to rework this?

(So far it is in no way in a state to be released. I've added some 
way to handle mailboxes, but I want to do access by uid, too.)

min-face - something like that. we only have a prototype so far.

I'd love to have a non-vanilla input stream.

word wrap queries (like in the old amiga api) within AGG draw would 
be cool too... as in, what would the size of this text (or any gfx 
element, for that matter) be with current font/drawing settings. 
 and how many letters from a string fit within this box ? wrapped 
or not.

With regards to min-face, when I spoke to Carl about this at the 
devcon we also canvassed the idea of a text-face, image-face, draw-face, 
etc which would have facets present / optimized for the primary function 
of the face. Carl seemed pretty keen to move away from the "one face 
fits all" type approach that currently exists.

It would be good to have an easy way to underline one character in 
a word (indicating the keyboard shortcut for that view face).

a simpler method to change the feel for common operations, like trapping 
keys would be nice, so you don't have to redo the entire feel.

There needs to be a seperate feel interface for Look and Feel.   
One of the most common complaints that I heard from people using 
VID was that they were unable to change the way a style looked without 
rewriting the feel object.  It should be easy to alter or set either 
the look or the behavior of a face without altering the other.

I'd love to see a kind of a developers summit happen as RT gets ready 
to attack each part of REBOL 3.0 they should host an online meeting 
for several hours or even all day if that's possible so that we can 
all get together here on AltME or some online conferencing software. 
 That way all the developers will have a chance to let RT know about 
their wants/needs as they develop each peice of REBOL 3.0.

That was a really busy time. I could hardly keep up with all the 
testing. But it was good. :)

This probably belongs to Tech news channel, but - SkyOS got new rendering, 
buffered, which much improved performance. It was done by one man 
in a short period of time. I do hope we get more advanced compositing 
for new View too :-) http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/508

i'm inpatient to see it  ^^ and to get a ride on the new C DLL framework 
it ill include

I hope it is OK to post here a "technical question"?