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Hummm. So it does. I asked the wrong question.  What about clicking 
on an email address in a web page?

On Windows XP , you can select a mail client from the internet options, 
but mine only gives me outlookexpress & hotmail.

So you just ned to figue out how to add a new email client to the 
dropdown.

There has to be a way. :>)

Phil if you need an IMAP account on a server to test with, we can 
give you access to the one we set up to test Qtask's new Webmail 
interface.  The account contains lots of examples like large attachments, 
deep folders.  As we learn more, we fill it with ore examples.  Just 
shoot me a private message, and I will get you name and password.

My provider free.fr offers a .. free .. pop/imap server. I can open 
an account for test.

Hi! 
Probably a bit offt., but:
Could I use Rebol with Exchange Server 2003?

I read in some earlier mailing list archives that there was some 
problems with authentication standarts...

You would REALLY want to upgrade Exchange to the most recent version. 
 A lot has been improved in 6 years.

Well, it is 2007 + Service packs that work with 2007....so, I will 
vote this is 6 years...


There are a LOT of holes in 2003, and the new version supports WebDAV, 
iCal, and other "friendly" features...

I think Graham has been working a little bit with it, but I don't 
know the results.

Unfortunately the documentation is not very good, but it shouldn't 
be too hard to figure out where it differs from the actual code. 
Also, if you grab the repository from Sourceforge, there are a couple 
bug fixes to mezz/imap.r

This is a pretty bizarre program .. I tried loading a word doc from 
my docs, and it loads a completely different one.

Lotus had a suite of their applications that loaded across the network 
.. looked neat when I went to the demo 10 years ago.

I'm pretty sure that /core would run circles around AJAX, during 
the tests I made a couple of years ago

it would be a plugin, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes other 
than a smaller DLL file

you need to embed it in a webpage somehow

server-in-a-browser would be a piece of cake with rebol. just consider 
that you can output HTML code to the browser via DOM as well as View 
graphics

Anyway, I'm giving ajax (or I don't know how to call it, because 
it's not ajax, it's just a httprequest) next try with this modified 
function:
	function getXMLHttpRequestObj(){
		var ajx;
		if(window.ActiveXObject) {
			if(_XML_ActiveX) {
				ajx = new ActiveXObject(_XML_ActiveX);
			} else {
				var versions = [
					"MSXML2.XMLHTTP",
					"Microsoft.XMLHTTP",
					"Msxml2.XMLHTTP.7.0",
					"Msxml2.XMLHTTP.6.0",
					"Msxml2.XMLHTTP.5.0",
					"Msxml2.XMLHTTP.4.0",
					"MSXML2.XMLHTTP.3.0"
				];
				for (var i = 0; i < versions.length; i++) {
					try {
						ajx = new ActiveXObject(versions[i]);
						if (ajx) {
							var _XML_ActiveX = versions[i];
							break;
						}
					}
					catch (e) {}
				}
			}
		}
		if(!ajx && typeof XMLHttpRequest != undefined) {
			try {
				ajx = new XMLHttpRequest();
			}
			catch (e) {
				return null;
			}
		} return ajx;
	}

don't you think we need new windowing system for browsers? I think 
that view layout is not good model anymore ... it opens new OS window 
... but that will be regarded being a popup .... we imo definitely 
need rebol own windowing system ...

(it looks that the "nice" site killed my firefox after playing a 
little bit with it:-) eating about 200MB of my memory:-)))

Still seems like a step back from native windowing...

funny How I coded such a thing myself 5 years ago though (floating 
divs with title bar and internal scroll bars I guess its shadow effects 
make it worthy of a patent.  ;-)

Zimbra is a sort of exchange clone.

the browser is becoming a very decent platform for developing applications

it is not browser which is capable - other technologies are ... but 
you are right - browser is a platform - it is a container ... it 
is a VM of a kind - you don't need .NET or .JAVA - you need native 
browser, which "contains" other technologies ... now let's have REBOL 
in a browser, our .REBOL :-)

Having everything wrapped in HTML (or XML or whatever markup-language) 
is not a good solution. I hate using applications inside a browser, 
because they're always slooooow. Native application clients are much 
better. Think reblets!

Sadly there are not a lot of rebol coders who can create a great 
looking gui.

And then there's access -- being able to use Ajax apps without owning 
a computer...

which is why the rebol/plugin is going to be a very important marketing 
tool for rebol

the browser is becoming a very decent platform for developing applications

: )


Zimbra "looks" very good.  I have used it (in depth), it is not exactly 
what it appears.  But they do a very nice job.  They are in my top 
10 Issue Tracking systems.

Flash is very impressive:  http://threeminds.organic.com/2006/01/groowy_on_the_d.html


This is the best example I have seen of a Zimba like app in Flash 
(major backer is Mark Cuban).

I agree with Brian.  LiveScript was a better name, and reduced confusion. 
 I have never like Rebel, but really like the idea of Rebel.

There are so many exmaples of name space conflict where there does 
not need to be.


And on the topic of AJAX:	http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/21/ajax/index.php

You know how when something new comes along they give it a new word, 
and it really just does what the old thing did? 

For me this means we have to learn a new word, when in reality it 
is just the same thing. 


 AJAX is the "concept" that a browser can talk to the server and ask 
 for a little information, instead of loading the whole page again 
 and again and again! 


This is a Technology!?!  This is "all" that AJAX is, nothing more. 
 It is the "concept" that we are finally doing something the way 
it should have been done in the first place. 


I'm coming out with a new technology next year, I'm working with 
two doctors on it.  It is called SBYNH: 

Stop Banging Your Nuts with a Hammer. 


We expect quite a turn out.  We will have medical professionals on 
hand to explain the long term affects of failing to use SBYNH.

Ruby is cute... (a little gem).

(a puzzle)

I really don't understand all the buzz about Ajax. About 1998/1999 
a friend of mine and I made a remote Javascript debugger that used 
IFrames to update the client page without reloading. And we were 
able to remote debug the client side. The problem was, that we really 
drove the Javascript and DOM engines to the limit...

I guess it's really just because most people (me included) didn't 
know about it until recently. :-) And it's so nice, because (as Reichart 
said) it's for some things the way it should have been done in the 
first place. (it's nice for me, because in a small project I'm doing 
right now, I can skip almost all PHP coding, because I can do most 
stuff in Javascript and just let the PHP do the database handling)

Bear in mind that around 10% of all people do not have javascript 
enabled. That way be through choice, necessity, or following US government 
security advice.

Javascript usage stats: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Before clicking on a link to a web site that you are not familiar 
with or do not trust, take the precaution of disabling active content.
:
http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/tips/ST04-012.html


With PHP all the oomph is in the server , so it is under your control. 
As you cannot guarantee that JS will be available in the client if, 
extra steps are needed to ensure the website works without it -- 
even though it may work spectacularly better with it.

Yes.

Which means Ajax is not a universally appliable solution....At least 
not yet.

Ajax also need decent css-support for  drag/drop etc. its not only 
quick downloads, the browser mustbe good enough to allow a "native 
app".

(although java made that possible for years, and the fatness of a 
comparable ajax-browser is the same)

There are three aspects that make Ajax apps compelling: 1) distribution 
is easy, with no installation, one click away from any web site; 
2) the environment is consistent, rich and predictable; 3) Remotely 
accessible, one does not have to own a computer, or even have disk 
access,  to resume using an app (classic example, using a library 
to use a web mail app).

Of course there are glaring drawbacks, but they don't matter enough. 
 Widgets (read Reblets) do have a niche -- eg. Apple's Dashboard 
is a far better experience than Windows Live and its ilk -- but we're 
not in that space, Reblets are still too tricky to deploy...

standard Windows user type designing,  bad layout, bad looks, cramped, 
and very inconsistent with itself in the first look!

an example to be site in courses about how NOT to design a UI.

Exhibit seems a very interesting light weight JS framework.

Does anyone has a good overview about current Ajax frameworks and 
pros/cons about these?

Robert - Microsoft.cz guys visited me last month, and we talked about 
some 2 - 3 years future, about SharePoint portal. They told me one 
thing towards AJAX - MS is going to adopt jquery, without any changes. 
But of course, I would not consider it being set-in-stone. So maybe 
a jquery?

Ok, will take a look at it.

I don't think that Silverlight has more potential than Flash. From 
what I've seen, Flash is still much more better. And you have IDEs 
to make graphics for Flash which almost every designer is using now. 
I've dowloaded one MS tool to try to make Silverlight graphic app 
(to test if it would be possible to make a Silverlight version of 
the game we are making in Flash) and I must say, that I have a problems 
to use it. I cannot imagine how not programmers can use it.

I don't know which is better, or which will win, but both systems 
are not the best or desired final design in my opionion.


We need a completely open/free base that is a webased standard all 
devices can and do support by default.

I was amazed at how well video runs in Silverlight on my Mac. But 
I'd still like to see a separation of video from Flash to get a simpler 
and truly optimized video player.

iecanvas.... canvas.... build a UI in the new JS engines on that.... 
let anyone in the game. Dump the schizophrenic CSS + DIV + JS.   
http://ibolmo.com/projects/moocanvas/

Now write a VID to that....

With Silverlight is a problem,that maybe it may be used for simple 
GUIs, but not for animations. Here are SWF and XAML versions to compare 
http://theconverted.ca/demo.html

- timestamp based syncing - that is another point - is it really 
a good idea? If it works, then it works, but not sure about its reliability 
....

maybe wrong info - SyncML was maybe a bit proprietary, now it seems 
that oma is developing it as a standard ....

Everybody gets the same files. It is a comercial product.

yes, I might be, if I decide to go for the app ... I will post our 
company requirements in oportunities group, maybe today evening. 
Our company failed with big Sap system for file transfer. I wanted 
to create something upon which business could be based. I will not 
be selfish - I better publish what could be a good business imo, 
than doing nothing myself due to lack of free time or the lack of 
my coding knowledges ...

the problems is reported in rambo ticket, will find it for you - 
it can report two zones +1 or + 2 here, and it is a problem - it 
depends if you skip the time the time is switched on, or if you go 
thru it ...

using tortoise SVN, how can I checkout just a single file?  here 
it complains about only wanting to checkout directories.... which 
is a bit dumb IMHO.


note, this checkout occurs in a new checkout area, the directories 
on the repository aren't anywhere else.  I just want to pick out 
one file from a repository and use just that elsewhere.

tcl/tk  directly .  not a single imported widget lib.

I don't even have a copy of it.

so continued from a discussion in VID+.

trying to help mario here grasp how to model a system using liquid.

Now they want me to add proxy handling to the rooms but the proxy 
should be handled only by some users (that's why I plan to have a 
controll room and not an extra button in computer rooms)

The xcript runs in a webpage with plugin so the user cannot change 
the envvars

The plugin posts data to a CGI on the proxy and that's how I can 
control the proxy and store requests for repair

The gui has the rooms names as buttons. When you press the room name 
its layout (made of buttons) is shown along with a standard feedback 
layout (a form to send requests via CGI POST)

The min goal with the proxy is to open a specific room at a specifica 
time up to a specific hour or up to a limit hour (when the school 
closes)

Asking more the "open" rooms should be coloured in a different way 
so all teachers know thet Internet is available.

It might be that a single computer should be opened instead of opening 
the whole room

so in reality, each time a computer opens up a view of the current 
state of each thing, it should have its own listener port.

When the gui starts I show servers state. As soon as a teacher clicks 
a button for a room he is changing the state...

Can I poll a status update from the server each, let's say, 2 mins?

The poll results should generate a data flow...

I am at the point of making my liquid net module for liquid, which 
would alleviate the need for a cgi-based system in your setup.

I am wondering what to do: on one hand I'd really like to create 
a liquid application, on the other hand I must finish the program 
in a few days...

hehe, right now... with the cgi in between, I don't think you'll 
get a lot more out of building it in liquid...

if elixir where ready for release, then, yes it would be a simple 
click and drag... but alas, its not there yet..

I will try to use the liquid concepts adding attributes to the nodes 
and do a "classical" plugin for the proxy

it should be possible to add an adaptor in order to plug a liquid 
system within a reb service, but thats a later stage.

if I had just a bit more time, I'd be glad to help, but comming back 
from the devcon has but a strain on my time (a lot of time to make 
up at work and at home)

plus I am working on getting a quick Revault demo site ASAP.

I will be giving a lot more tutorials and examples, in the following 
weeks.

I am at a point where all my stuff basically works, I just need to 
start disseminating the information, spreading the word.

A suggestion: put the working full script as a downloadable file 
(rebol.org or a link from liquid site) at the beginning of the page. 
I did the example step by step following the page and, at the endo 
of my tests I found the full script I colud copy and paste!!!

and it seems, by a strange twist of faith, that I suddenly have A 
LOT more time on my hands... (I'll let you figure out why ;-)

I think that samples are a must for such kind of stuff. VID, Draw, 
Services, rebcode and similar powerful things lost their momentum 
due to the lack of eaxamples imo

ok, well I have to log off, but I agree.  The liquid part of my site, 
has a usefull simple tutorial, but it needs more advanced examples 
and stuf, and that's where I'm at now  :-)

it used to be that I was scared the spec of liquid would change too 
much and I would run into support issues, but so far, its remained 
backwords compatible for the last year... and I have implemented 
VERY complex systems using it, so I am now confident its in a state 
of production approval.

I sue similar tricks as a teacher, maybe you made the right choice

my conclusion is the same as nenad's... it's overkill :) i think 
i can do all that users need to do with just event handling. that 
is, recognizing that in the ui everything is about events. the system 
does not need a network, just direct "links" between elements (call 
them widgets, styles, etc).

from the user pov, it looks like a network, but internally it is 
not. in particular, events don't need to be propagated (this avoids 
the cycle problem altogheter)

Just in Mozilla: Was reading rss in sage, opened bookmark-editor, 
moved bookmarks, sage was updated. i think liquid is for such things. 
also the wiring can be shown graphically. Have seen that with Visual 
Age did that long ago. If it is well done its not a bad idea. I still 
fear it will be hard to debug, since all this wiring is invisible. 
Or maybe: it was to easy to create for me. BAck in that days i found 
such connetion-stuff cool and created a lot spagethi. (was not using 
VA, that method worked with pure oops too^^)

Well, if we interface to user via a dialect, then it is ok to me. 
The thing is - web is full of various frameworks. I read about them, 
about their ideas, and it is OK. The trouble is, that for the thing 
to be usable, you have to study, what the framework author though 
about, when he/she was creating a framework. And I fear, that way 
too much abstract framework will distract coders, as they will not 
understand, how to extend it, etc.

Gabriele, did i notice i used Oberon? :)

Fastest thing i have seen on a P100. Maybe muchmore on Amiga could 
compete :)

also... we have network events, system events, you could have usb 
events and many more... do you broadcast everything to everything? 
when an event generates another event, is it broadcast to everything? 
it does not seem a great model to me... :)

It works for the gui. I dont step into theory about slow, if i have 
a real life example which is fast :) about everything to everything, 
that would be in a bad case: each event to 100 receivers, 100 events/sec, 
10k dispatches/sec. cpu can do 1 billion instructions. 10k instructions/event. 
most of them: i am interested? no. ~100.

volker... oberon may be doing tricks, such as not really broadcasting 
to everything... so the fact that it is fast does not make the approach 
a good approach.

Because of this it was able to manage a full GUI and still be as 
fast as DOS.