AltME groups: search

i am saying 
  call/input/output "rebol %trusted-requester.r" 

Where the call is hardwired like 'browse and can not be influenced 
by reblet.

bad UI argument .... dunno how others do it, but I prefer to set 
my settings in control panel, not ending up with myriads of different 
requesters asking for myriads of permissions to which reaction of 
users I know apriori - they will hate this, possibly click yes or 
no no matter what and wonder why things eventually don't work ..... 
all I am asking for is security presented in sensible way, that is 
all ...

I want to get over this stage really fast because it is starting 
to annoy me. I want to come to this group and read fresh material, 
not still stuck on these issues.

And also, such things should typically not be needed by apps. My 
usual need is for a link back to my server, and there are no restrictions.

Volker - sounds good idea. The thing is - that control panel - is 
that rebol script/UI or some native stuff? And also - Java has icon 
in control panel, how such aproach is solved eg. on OS-X, Linux - 
do they share similar concept of having control panel facility in 
OS?

reading back my replies - my apology to Anton and others - I was 
creating way to much unnecessary noise, sorry...

Why not go with my suggestion from before (scrolled off the history, 
I'm afraid)? Don't remove network, file access, etc. by default - 
instead, restrict it with secure and bring up a security requestor 
when the applet tries it? It should be up to the user to allow these 
plugins access anyways.

That's why I suggested cryptographically signed scripts, that could 
be tracked to an SDK user by RT if necessary. That way, with a header 
like encap uses, you could lower the security for signed scripts. 
That way if your script does something bad, the author could be tracked 
down and sued (shot, whatever ;-)

The main thing I would be worried about with a sandbox for anonymous 
scripts would be its potential for involving the user unwittingly 
in illegal or immoral activities that they may not approve of. I 
would rather not list such activities in a web-public group, but 
I can think of dozens of nasty possibilities right off the top of 
my head, and that's just from looing back at activities commonly 
performed by banner ads on many sites.

Perhaps it is [AltME]->[REBOL]->[OS]->[Chrome]

Is it possible that you changed the default after the system was 
running, and AltmME (and therefor REBOL) don't know about the change 
yet?
This "feels" like another level of caching...

Graham, what happens if you in Windows start a cmd and type:
start http://www.rebol.com

(I can't remember, where the problem is, so I'm just giving ideas.)

Graham, there's some info here about default browser in the registry:

http://newoldthing.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/how-does-your-browsers-know-that-its-not-the-default-browser/


It's not only the file-type, it seems, but also per protocol. Try 
check for example HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT/HTTP/shell/open/command and such.

I would, because the memory and screen usage are a better fit for 
the netbook I do most of my stuff from nowadays :)

so you support another try for the vendor lock-in, hype, and all 
of that? :-)

Paul: <I just realized this group i s web-public and that means the 
links are now public.  Did we want that to happen?>

Nick has also posted the links and default userid/passwords on the 
ML, so yes, those details are public.

Still, worth bearing in mind this is all [web-public], so stay on 
topic :-)
http://www.rebol.org/ml-display-thread.r?m=rmlCDZC

(I was aware this was public, but hte Qtask link that is public is 
public, and the other link requires a password).

And then I still wouldn't be able to use it on this computer - too 
much RAM and screen space.

Pekr, I think you jumped to a conclusion.  It is not that one needs 
to release their own browser, but rather that you can do some fun 
skinning, and also offline more, which all browsers don't support 
yet.

Qtask (for exmaple) supports ALL browser, since www.iQtask.com is 
simplly HTML. 

Qtask did some tricky things with JavaScript to control tables, which 
is why Safari and Chrome fail.  We should have this fixed by the 
end of this month.  It is a small set of fixes.
So we then will support all browsers.


But still I woudl build a custom version of Chrome to do some "extra" 
tricks.  We also plan to support Flash plug ins, for audio support, 
etc.  These are all extras.

I love your "killing REBOL schtick" .


REBOL is a language, the x-internet concept is one of the many cool 
things about it.  BUT, for now, I'm going to keep my marraige in 
place between REBOL + HTML + JAVASCRIPT.

BrianH: if you need more, the question is, if it is right device 
for you? There are 12" machines, which are much more powerfull, yet 
not-that-big. But even netbooks are getting better. Intell needs 
to get rid of their crappy chipset. Nvidia is doing some cool work 
here, as well as S3, and even ATI. Dual Core Atoms are coming soon 
too ...

This cost me $350 in a Black Friday sale - any more and I wouldn't 
have been able to buy it at all. I really like the battery life though 
- I never have to turn it off, just suspend. This model has much 
better battery life than the larger alternatives. Plus, I find the 
limitations helpful for my job, particularly the testing phase.

the 901 has bluetooth and a 4 hour battery so that's a plus

Pekr, shame you view this as one or the other.  I hope one day to 
have one dialect that outputs REBOL view and an AJAX like framework.

I also test and initiate Core native enhancements, backport changes 
to R2, refine the language design with Carl, ...

And I am the DevBase project lead.

Cyphre's work on REBOL is paid work, and they tend to accumulate 
a whole batch of fixes for him to do in one job.

OK, I give up. I am in waiting mode, studying new GUI, in order to 
be able to catch few bugs for Carl. I reall wish host codes would 
be uploaded, so those of us interested, could start porting efforts 
to Os-X, Linux, Win Mobile ... and plug-in :-)

Pekr, I know you keep pounding on this, but you a really wrong here... 
 Brian knows my stance on REBOL, and can attest to this.

Gabriele and Cyphre aren't very social.

I talk to Gab almost every day....and to Richard several times a 
week....Gab is actually very "social", but only in small groups.

Failure to correctly recognize causality is the root of most failures 
of perception.

   I am going to translate that in 37 languages and sell T-shirts.

This has broadcast area on the left (comfortably fits 640x480), text 
chat on right - with name login (and private text/video/audio chat 
between any audience members), links include a file area, with file 
area, and a separate text/video/audio room for random group discussions. 
  According to today's activities, this should satisfy our needs.

Please try it out and lemme know!

My FMS server is hosted, so I need to prepare for the event by ensuring 
enough connections, bandwidth, and storage space reserved on the 
server.  I currently have a 40 connection limit, but it's no problem 
to raise that as high as needed - I just need to do it soon.  I'd 
appreciate some help getting a concensus of the number of people 
to expect.  Right now 4 people are signed up at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html
 for December 27th, 3pm EST.  Is that when we've decided to hold 
the event?  We had an additional 10 people signed up for yesterday's 
prep meeting, and 16 people came to visit.  Signing up at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html
 would help me get a better estimate.  I could set up a registration 
process and hand out unique user/pass combinations, but would prefer 
to leave it as open as possible for those interested to just join 
in...  If anyone has ideas about how to estimate a head count, I'd 
appreciate any suggestions.   Thanks!

And post all the vidoes to youtube, if possible

Not to confuse anyone but Nick has set up a better signup procedure 
at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html. Thanks to Geomol, Reichart 
and Btiffin for putting their names on the checklist. I think we're 
still waiting for a 3.0 Presenter.

John and Brian, I didn't see your names on the list at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html, 
so I took the liberty of adding you, along with others who've specifically 
stated they'd attend.  Aside from the mailing list, are there any 
other lists here on Altme or elsewhere that I should be checking?

The next step should probably be organizing presentation times and 
topics.  I've only seen the names posted on the mailing list (http://www.rebol.org/ml-display-thread.r?m=rmlCWZC).

Reichart, I'll be happy to put up a page about devcon 2008, and afterward 
host any recordings that get made.  My design skills are terrible, 
though, so if anyone wants to prepare a nice looking layout, it'll 
surely look better than anything I come up with...

If you're presenting, screenshots and any other files that you want 
to make available can be uploaded to the file area at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22/transfer.html
.  I also prepared a temporary ftp account  to help upload multiple 
files - same username and pass.  Please let me know if you have any 
questions!

Is there a tool to demo an app so everyone can see it? (like remote 
desktop or "go to meeting"). 

I understand there will be video and audio and chat, screen grab 
and display. Anything I missed?

Guys, this is why I want to put up a webpage.

I think in the spirit of crowd sources, no one person should be expected 
to do more than one thing.


Nick, don't worry about the webpage, Gab, or someone will host.
Chris, or I, or someone will do the art and design.
etc.  


I plan to pound on this tomorrow in fact.   There are no egos here...who 
ever can help or do the best job, step up.

Once the webpage is up, then we can point everyone to one place, 
and quickly update it until it all makes sense.

Pekr,  I did post here and the mailing list.  The whole idea of the 
virtual DevCon evolved quickly and informally, so I apologise if 
it's been confusing.   Since the idea was suggested very near the 
proposed DevCon date, I tried to help organize things a bit at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html
, but my efforts have been personal and not necessarily agreed upon 
by any of the community.   We probably should have appointed an official 
group of organizers and created a web site first, but in the interest 
of trying to things done, I just moved ahead and posted my suggestions 
here and on the mailing list - I hope there've been no disagreements 
or concerns about any of that.   DideC,  as it  stands, my intention 
is to make 100-150 connections available to http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22
.  At this point, it seams reasonable to leave it open - if anyone 
thinks we should expect more than 100 people, then I'll need to know 
soon.   I'd appreciate a head count of people in the French community 
who plan to attend.  Amacleod, the broadcast system at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22
seems to be the best available solution.  I'm leaving that room available 
until the event, so that presenters can become familiar with it. 
 To make it easier for others to use the system, please remember 
to close the broadcast page when you're done using it, and please 
try to conserve bandwidth to only what's necessary to become familiar 
and comfortable with the system.  Please let me know if you have 
any questions!

And a Member of REBOL SIG?

Amacleod, as it stands, I've taken the screen grab app out of the 
presentation setup.  It was a Windows only solution that seemed to 
add potential complexity.  It appears that the best solution is to 
prepare screen shots beforehand, and upload the images to the file 
area.  Of course, screen shots could also be uploaded to that same 
area in real time...   If any presenter needs help with that part 
of the presentation, or if that solution will not work for anyone, 
please let me know.   I also have a whiteboard app installed at  
http://rockfactory.us/rooms/other/livepresenter/LivePresenter-admin.htm
  http://rockfactory.us/rooms/other/livepresenter/LivePresenter-viewer.htm
 .  I haven't used that application much more than just to try that 
it's installed properly, but I'm happy to add it to the setup if 
anyone wants to use it for the presentation.

Thanks, Chris is more talented than me, he ight take a swipe at it. 
 I think this one is a little too "blocky" and a bit childlike. But 
it might be a good start, and it is designed to be SUPER simple to 
build as a site, with nothing but flat HTML files.  In fact, I could 
build this out of just several Wikis.

I like the idea of the rubber earth, and the pixelate grate on the 
upper left (very "conference-ee")

Yes, very conference-like and it screams (in a nice way) fun fun 
fun, come play with us! Qtask is getting better and better it appears.

and what's the deal with it not allowing chrome as the browser?

Safari and Chrome are not supported yes.  Soon.  We are indeed activily 
wrapping that up.

Not to screw things up, but Is there any benefit to do this maybe 
the first weekend of January rather than between the holiday period? 
 With people hosting family or travelling to family this is not only 
going to limit the live viewers, but also the people available to 
present.  I see others already mention not being available, and as 
it is I will be between sporting events as my kids are in tournaments 
over the holidays.

... with an option for anyone to suggest another date.  I didn't, 
and things just started falling into place.  There will always be 
someone who isn't going to like the date and will have to miss.  
The only reason I bring it up now is that it's pretty obvious that 
this is not an IDEAL time for a larger number than any non-holiday 
weekend.

You guys may have missed it, there is already a way to vote.  Which 
is in the checklist here.  Post the best day and worse day(s).

I think moving it out a little might be a good idea for a few reasons, 
not the least is that "2009" on the page will make it "current" for 
12 months!

If we try to make this a bi-yearly event, atleast one virtual and 
another live event (or both virtual), it might make it better suited 
for people to prepare for and show some of their recent work, finished 
or not.  The talks don't have to be major pieces or an hour plus 
in length, but could simply demonstrate a concept of interest to 
a group of newbies or some of the advanced rebolers, 15 - 30 minutes. 
  I'd really like to see some simple demos of Max's work and Oldes 
Flash dialectt o see these tools "make a difference", not to mention 
countless others.

The checklist was put up, with a request for people to add their 
preferred dates.

Not many of us did, and 27-dec was the favorite from a very short 
list.

I think now it'd be Nick's decision if he wanted to throw the date 
back into the open.

Any of us could of course start the hunt for an eDevCon date in 2009.

I think we will have a small turn out (less than 20) right now.........but 
this could be a GOOD thing, in that if we do this, then we will learn! 
 
And then doing it AGAIN is easier.

I'm completely open to whatever the community decides to do :)   
It's probably not such a bad thing to keep this first presentation 
smallish, and to consider it a learning experience.   One thing that's 
clear so far is that it'd be good to decide on one or several people 
to manage operations officially, and to create a web site to organize 
future events.  For the time being, this event does appear to be 
shaping up well, for the short matter of days we've spent contemplating 
it :)  There are 19 live attendees signed up at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html
.  We appear to have a viable way to make the presentation, and I'm 
looking forward to seeing anyone who has the time and motivation 
to speak about REBOL related topics :)

Agreed...


I'm open to.  My goal is to get some of the Qtask team to be present 
for a simple and real time Question and Answer session.

As you saw from the number Sunanda's source code counter showed, 
Qtask is a GIANT REBOL program.  


It may not be the best or the smartest code in the world, but we 
have learned a lot, and would like to share some of it.

Sunanda, this is still a web-public group. Every time you post a 
username and password here it may need to be changed.

Good point......I think Nick is aware of that in this case....He's 
publicised those details here and on the Mailing List.

I am sure a securer sign-up will be needed once the room is in active 
use.

We really need a place we can send everyone.  I'm going to vote a 
public Wiki, but if no one steps forward with that...then I will 
simply take the art I made, make a Wik on Qtask out of that, and 
sydicate it (make it public).

Anyone in the REBOL DevCon project in Qtask can edit it...

Thanks Sunanda, looks good and functional.  I would be very interested 
in attending the devcon as a viewer, at what time will this be going 
on? I looked at past chat but didn't notice it.

Hi Janko and RobertS :)  I added your names to the list of attendees. 
  The event will take place at 3pm EST December 27th, at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22
 .  As stated, user/pass is devcon/devcon  (those pages will all 
be deleted after the event, and I'll be monitoring to kick/ban unwanted 
visitors from any of the chat/audio/video communications as needed, 
so that first line of security is not a big concern - it's primarily 
just to deter random lookee-loos :)

The broadcast room is currently available for any presenter to prepare 
and become familiar with the interface.  If anyone would like would 
like to practice, or if anyone needs help preparing, I have free 
time available throughout the week.  You're welcome to freely enter 
and use the broadcast room - please just close the broadcast page 
completely when you're done practicing.

Oops, and Chris, presenting about QuarterMaster - lots of "Q"s :)

late to the party.


so, where to I go to sign up to join the DevCon? Or do I just pop 
into some web site and view the presentation?

yeksoon, I added you to the list at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.html
.  The event will take place at 3pm EST, December 27th, at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22
 .   user/pass is devcon/devcon - just pop in, watch, and take part 
... see you then!

OK, I can chop up my art, and turn it into a syndicated Wiki, which 
we can then update quickly.  But I need content:


https://www.qtask.com/files.cgi/REBOLDevCon.png?tab=get&uuid=SUEG8343C26V82PWP5BLFKSMU4QT&filename=REBOLDevCon.png

t would be good to have:


- 3 items of news (Perhaps an update on R3, something about products 
that are being worked on, and something else)?

- A list of speakers (is it really just Chris and me, and perhaps 
a couple of the Qtask team?)
- List of when they want to talk
- Exact sign up instructions

I can put this all together easily enough.

Reichart, the page looks great :)  I haven't heard from any other 
presenters, and do need to reserve bandwidth today.  How long will 
you, Chris, and the Qtask team need?  LAST CALL for presentations!

I will take 2 hours, which includes me, and anyone else on my team.

Thanks Reichart :)  Unless I hear differently, I'll reserve enough 
bandwitdh for 50 attendees to attend a 4 hour event, and enough storage 
space to record the whole thing.  That should give us plenty of wiggle 
room.

Everything is now set up and ready to go.

<Stating 20:00 UTC is like saying nothing ...>

Part of the idea behind ISO 8601 is that everyone should be able 
to convert their local time to UTC and vice versa. So times specified 
as UTC are unambiguous. Anything else, in an international context, 
is mis-interpretable.
See you at DevCon!

It's currently about 10:45am here in Eastern time, USA, and I'm planning 
of being at http://rockfactory.us/rooms/room22at 3pm (4 hours 15 
minutes from now) - the Altme timestamp should help clear things 
up.

And you, Janko?

huh.. what do you mean 70's and 30's ?

We had one years ago 25+ that put a foxphoto store in the middle 
of the street and didn't even spill the rolls of film from the shelves.

Chris, it would be cool to add a count down timer on the website 
though, and easy to do...

May I suggest that the following be added to the home page of REBOLConf.info 
website:

- Much bigger date and time.
- Link to the video conference.
- List of known speakers.

I need: a countdown timer that sits in an external file, is invoked 
with startTimer('date and time string'); and changes the text content 
of <span id="counter">.  That is all.  Otherwise, no timer...

Chris, if you click on my presentation, all my information is in 
there.  Photo, Bio, Topic, and Description.

There was no formal registration this year - just the discussion 
here and an informal list at http://rockfactory.us/events/devcon.cgi

The live group has been closed, and will reopen when we do another 
conference.

Chris, may I suggest we set up the wiki website such that at the 
top is a given even (Name + Date) and that everything else be put 
on one big page.  

This has a lot of advantages.  This is not to say people can't put 
things on other pages, but if we do it this way, everything can be 
in one place.

You come to the Home page, then click on the event you are interestested 
in, and that is it.

Note: http://2008.rebolconf.infois still editable by those that 
have registered.  The auto redirection will turn off shortly and 
http://rebolconf.infowill point to the future.

Btw: it seems that the url for the 2007 DevCon has changed.  I'll 
try and keep http://2007.rebolconf.infopointed to the correct site...


Alternately, if whoever maintains the 2007 DevCon pages wishes me 
to host them under the above address, I'll be happy to...

Thanks to everyone who made DevCon2008 a reality.
****
A couple of follow-up points:


-- How about doing an eDevCon twice a year, whether or not there 
is a physical one too.

-- And plenty more notice so some Devolunteers can help with with 
set-up and promotion.


-- Chris's presentation would have seriously benefited from some 
sort of screen reader / whiteboard system....A camera pointing at 
the screen was not ideal.

May have slipped off on the 'Live' group, but Nick suggested a screen-capture-as-a-camera-source 
product for Linux and Windows (though I used a Mac for my presentation...)

My points:


- I enjoyed Reicharts talk. I found the format to be fine. We submit 
questions and he answers quickly.

- For future eDevCons, keep them on fixed dates (+/- a week), 2 times 
a year with pre-announcements 2 months prior to the devcon. With 
fixed dates, people will be able to adjust to "the devcon season", 
and allow presenters to make some great presentations without hiccups.
- Could RT "sponsor" a news item on rebol.com for the date?

- DevCon could also be for beginners. An expert could provide courses 
(although I don't know if that should be for free). This point may 
not be ideal to carry out in a devcon at this small scale.

I actually was capturing the output of yesterdays conference with 
my screen capture tools but my connectioin was bad because of the 
storms in the area and became so choppy that it was useless to me.

Sunanda, agreed...

Basically there are for stream techs we need:

- Camera
- Computer screen
- Text
- Audio.

All of this needs to be captured.


Text is still BEST in AltME, it was designed for this, this is also 
a way to bring people into the fold.


Computer and Camera are not the same concept, since video is fine 
at 320x250 (even if stretched), while Computer needs to be exact. 
 


We still have some tweaking to do here, but this is coming together....

Instead of fixed dates, we could also adapt to presenters availability. 
ie., wait until there are a certain number of presenters, and then 
fix the date.

I agree, this could also have different name than devcon... something 
more on the "easy" less official side, so potential presenters would 
not feel they can't present something more minor they are working 
on in short and maybe more would participate. something like virtual 
rebol gathering ... just thinking outloud

This is a stream from a friend of mine http://www.ustream.tv/channel/freedom-of-information-2008-az


She is using UStream to do this.  I'm going to play with this, but 
it "seems" sort of perfect for the Video part of what we are doing.
you set your "Show time" and go!


But, I will only know after I have played with the incoing, and also 
tried broadcasting, and gotten feedback from a large group.

What about registering the Virtual Devcon and the real ones and putting 
them on a YouTube channel ?

It's not just the money, it's also your time. it was extremely generous 
of you, Nick, and the others who helped with the organisation.

hmm, Qtask might be good name for REBOL too :-) But - that is not 
possible imo, as Qtask is legal entity, which will have its own business. 
And Qtask is also a product.

Terry, while acknowledging your tongue in cheek, this conference 
was a little last-minute and that limited the presenters somewhat 
:(

Props to Reichart and Chris for being able to pull something together 
on such short notice.