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Just  a question of Rebol docs.. (at this point Rebol2 preferred), 
If I want to find all necessary (and possible) stuff of Serial port, 
where shoud I look? I woudl like to set various speeds on Serial 
port, also control DTR line manually..  That kind of stuff is needed 
on Propeller Downloader since it uses DTR to toggle microcontrollers 
reset line. And if possible in a way it is portable (no DLLs ?). 


(page 4 ) http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/prop/PropellerDatasheet-v1.2.pdf

yep.. I noticed that page too.. And based on that one, it looks like 
that level of control is not at Rebol.  


I did that port: open  thingy and then  ? port ... it gives a huge 
list of  parameters, but most of them seem to be more Ethernet/tcp 
related than Serial port..

He used to work for Rebol Tech, and did the SSL implementation ... 
and prior to that was an Amiga networking guy

Ah.. Now I remember.. Some (many?) years ago people were trying to 
reach him so that they could register his net stack and get keyocdes.. 
(or ask him to release it free if he's not willing to sell it anymore).. 
AFIK neither happened.. Luckily there are some new (PPC) native stacks 
available.

Btw.. he was wrong about using Xon/Xoff instead or HW handshake.. 
 those are used even today  and If I had to choose one Id' definitley 
go hardware. keeps the serial line pure 8.bit, and workd more reliable 
on multitasking PC:s...

Hmm.. Where those SSL and TSL should be?  When I look:      ? system/schemes 
   it does not show those at all..  there is HTTPS though?

Well, CureCode it when you get the chance, or if you are impatient 
RAMBO it and it will get migrated to CureCode later.

http://rebol.wik.is/Protocols


I made the two - three line changes to prot-smtp.r and prot-send.r 
and uploaded them here.

And using 'ssend was able to send email thru gmail using ssl .... 
for those that asked.

Joanna, there aren't a lot of docs on serial ports, but the basics 
are easy enough.


; port speed data-bits parity stop-bit (order is not significant 
IIRC)
port-spec: serial://port2/38400/8/none/1

p: open/no-wait port-spec

p/rts-cts: off  ; THIS IS REQUIRED TO TURN OFF HARDWARE HANDSHAKING!
update p

Then you can just INSERT and COPY on the port.

Doc in the Core group: "this could be a really great addition to 
R3 (or even R2)"


Policy: Additions of new globally defined functions to new R2 releases 
almost always must get put in R3 first, go through consensus, testing 
and the REBOL optimizer, then be backported to R2 (usually through 
R2/Forward). Enhancements of existing functions in comparable areas 
of the code (not ports, View or library) also go through the R3 gauntlet 
first. If you want R2 /Core enhanced, get to work on R3.


Change to the semantic model of R2 isn't going to happen: No new 
port model, no new View, no extensions or host code - use R3 if you 
need those. New (real) R2 datatypes are unlikely, though faked backports 
of R3 datatypes are OK and have already made it into 2.7.7, with 
more to come. Natives that can be fixed without changing the semantic 
model or adding new datatypes are fair game though.


Bug fixes will be done though as long as code (that we can't fix) 
doesn't depend on the bug (no fix to PICK, POKE and AT's off-by-one 
error, for instance), as will backwards-compatible enhancements to 
R2-specific areas, like the port model, View/VID and library support. 
Backwards-compatible means we also test it against existing code, 
so if you want to test it against your favorite code, please do so 
and tell us what you find.


These fixes are coming, at least in theory - someone has to do the 
work. If you have a favorite bug you need fixed or enhancement you 
need, do the work yourself or pay someone to do the work (REBOL Consulting, 
perhaps). Changes go in as they are made, and they are made by people 
with priorities. If you have priorities too, act on them :)

This assumes that the docs will be fixed .. currently  < maps to 
-gt and > maps to -lt in the docs.

I loaded the new REBOL/View 2.7.7.3.1 1-Jan-2010 down and tried to 
run it without installing.

It just writes a bypass-install file with true in it, but it does 
not run.

However starting it with the option --noinstall still works as expected.

Have I read the blog correctly ? SSL ODBC and encryption added to 
REBOL/View Standard ? This is a nice news !

Yes, I knew that and I wondered if we were going to revert back to 
the 2.7.5 behavior.

Sorry, the 2.7.6 changes are sticking. In terms of functions that 
have affected existing code, that means the changes to CALL and EXTRACT. 
We're trying to be more careful in the future, but we're mostly concerned 
with compatibility with the previous version. If you have a favorite 
app that needs to keep working, get involved with R2 development 
and testing.

are there any docs about encription functions that are now enabled 
in view ... I could find some rsa-* and dsa-* functions by trying 
in console

Some of the R3 versions still need work, and I didn't have the time 
to review them to see which ones. I'll import the fixes that are 
solid for now, and the LIST-DIR after the R3 version gets some polish.

All of them have been backported already and are in R2/Forward.

if  /with and /head can be combined together , Things will get better

And there are no known examples of tls://

Spent last night updating R2/Forward - it was about 6 months behind, 
due to various issues, but R3 for those six months hasn't been focused 
on new functions so there isn't much to do. I should be done by today, 
and they should be portable to 2.7.8.

The R3 man started off as just a clone of R2, but split up and wikified.

As long as R2 and R3 use the same method there will be less mental 
translation overhead.

common pages .. split for r2 and r3 use?

so each page has a r2, r3 and ... rn section

not sure if that is better ... since if you want a comparison, you 
have to look at separate pages.  And you have to maintain more pages 
as well.

Perhaps. With some formatting trickery, the notes for R3 could appear 
as info boxes in the R2 version, and vice-versa. Or they could be 
skipped on separately generated pages, or all put together on one 
page. We should decide which since it would affect the phrasing of 
the docs.

I'd prefer a single document with R2 and R3 sections when they apply. 
 going forward and backward, this will grow as the single source 
of information.


so far, it has respawned so many times in the past, it just gets 
weaker and weaker ... the original docs which had user contributed 
content via the rebol desktop was the best system.  its just gone 
downhill from there.

this latest web site effort is the perfect place to integrate all 
the docs and ACCUMLATE the information into a single and cohesive 
reference.


as a new user, old user and transitioning user, having all the information 
in one page is best for all cases. 
-you don't end up in the wrong docs (new users).

-you can easily see the scope of the improvements (old users comming 
back or tempted to)

-you can much more easily understand and grasp the changes when they 
are comparable in the same sheet (transition).

in 2.7.7, send has not been fixed, the problem in the current version, 
is if a problem occours, the connection to the mail server isn't 
closed and when reaching the server max connections, send will stop 
working and difficult for the user to know what's up. here is a patched 
version, in addition to force an attempt close, it will return true 
on success, none on failure. hopefully it can be fixed for 2.7.8 
8-)
http://reboot.ch/rebol/send.r

and an working intel OSX SDK would be nice... the previous intel 
OSX builds where 100% useless when used with View.

And 2.7.6 ?

R2/Forward updated to 2.100.80 (mostly) compatibility. That was the 
last release of R3 that focused on adding functions. Since then we 
have been doing bug fixes, revamps (of modules and PARSE), extensions, 
host code, and cleaning up datatype behavior. These updates will 
make it into 2.7.8.

Adding or changing functions, mind you. 2.100.80 only affected TAKE, 
as far as R2 is concerned, and in a way that was already there.

Yes, this means that we have fully working SINGLE?, COLLECT-WORDS, 
INVALID-UTF? and RESOLVE. Even R3 doesn't have a fully working INVALID-UTF? 
yet; since R2/Forward is mezzanine we can fix bugs that are still 
pending in the R3 natives.

R3 2.100.81 was the first release of the module revamp, so backporting 
the module system is the next step for R2/Forward. At least as much 
as we can fake, of course. RR2/Forward is still missing an implementation 
of UNBIND though, and it looks like the module system might need 
it. Wish me luck, or chip in!

a pretty print function and now I have to deal with strings when 
operating on the data instead of numbers

Yes, sort of. Integers and money were changed, percent added.

Anyway, R2 and R3 display decimals to a different level of precision 
before sci notation kicks in ....

The app I'm building now requires RebGUI and so I get to know it 
a little bit.

And this is now the "second coming"

and let the wider community report any issues

Brian, you said that Gabriele or Nenad should review them ... and 
that's what I was referring to ...

Pity we can't include Romano's async protocol too .. and then we 
could start moving some of the R3 schemes back to R2

As for the installer, I'm waiting for Carl to come out of his cave 
and submit his installer mezzanine fixes from 2.7.7 so we can get 
started on fixing it.

And please get rid of the auto-public-directory-creation.

When last I checked 2.7.7 allows you to run without installing if 
you tell the installer that's what you want. And there's -i.

What I suggest you do is send an email with attach and trace it using 
wireshark.  Then do the same with an email client and see what the 
difference is.

Posted mezzanine changes for 2.7.8, ported from R2/Forward 2.100.80.0:

- Added COLLECT-WORDS, RESOLVE, SINGLE?, IMMEDIATE!, INTERNAL!, INVALID-UTF?,
  CD, MORE, and the convenience words LS, PWD, RM and MKDIR.

- Removed buggy binary! support from ASCII? and LATIN1?, as done 
in 2.100.60.


See mezz-control.r #6763, mezz-file.r #6776, mezz-series.r #6772, 
mezz-string.r

#6773 and mezz-reflect.r #6771 for the relevant changes. Details 
in R3's docs.


Note: The APPEND and REMOLD rewrites are too awkward to incorporate 
without a

native APPLY function. UNBIND hasn't been written yet (hoping for 
a native).

R2/Forward doesn't have a web page - all the docs are in the source, 
or the R3 docs. The R3 docs should work for almost all of the functions 
in R2/Forward, at least to the extent that the R3 docs are current 
and complete.

Realistically we need a policy for how much of the R2 and R3 docs 
are going to be shared, to avoid duplicating work. There is a discussion 
about that on Carl's blog now. Once we have a policy we can organize 
and update the docs.

All of the new functions in 2.7.7 and 2.7.8 (except THROW-ERROR) 
are backports from R3 - that is the development path for new R2 mezzanine 
functions. The rest is fixes and/or improvements to existing functions.

The same will likely be the case for future releases too, at least 
in the areas where R2 and R3 are comparable (not GUI, database, ports, 
/Library, etc.). Well see though.

I see. but help text says it accepts word! and block! so it is confusing.

it's a little less nice looking but it would be more uniform and 
logical .. the way of "least surprise"


because now when you write your own functions liek map-each you don't 
know or make it look like foreach with or make all custom functions 
not accept active words which makes your code more systematic and 
easyer to understand , but then your function is not in style with 
rebol's foreach forall ..etc

and what is your reason for nay  :)

yes, I agree that this makes rebol's ordinary functions look like 
other languages' syntax / special forms .. that's why I said it's 
cool and confusing :) .. I didn't notice this is only for releases 
.. I was replying to Endo

If anybody has archived some historical versions of REBOL, I'd be 
grateful if you contact me by private message. Specifically, I'd 
be looking for 2.3.* for Linux x86 and 2.5.0 for Linux, but any version 
pre-2.3.0 would also be great.

I have Solaris versions with date stamps ( the date I copied them 
to the server ) of 2000, 2001, and 2003.  I think these versions 
were susceptible to creating zombie dns processes

No :)


We need a place, page, website, (i.e. the original purpose of REBOLCentral) 
where a new person can come, and in a really nice layout EVERYTHING 
REBOL is there.

It points a person to everything else.


The Library,  the blogs, the knoweldge of this place, a REBOL "ReadMeFirst.txt" 
if you will.

We need that for long time and there's still nothing. I wonder if 
anybody's interested in this project or if everybody's happy with 
the way it is. When yes (everybody's happy now), I can understand 
why the 'outsiders' describe us as "elitists".

I don't think it's possible to gather all the matter and usefull 
links  in one page.

Rebol.org, Rebol.net and Rebol.com are enough to connect with the 
rest, to my mind.

And I think I know where to retrieve my old binaries. Should have 
Linux (4.2)  REBOL/Core 2.3.0 by tomorrow.

Graham, thanks a lot! rebol-old is 2.3.0, rebolnew is 2.5.0 and rebol101 
is 2.5.5. all /core for solaris sparc (10.1)

I submitted my http patches for 2.7.7 ... and they have yet to be 
reviewed.  Suspect it's a waste of our time.

Maybe it's your OS and not Rebol ?

rebol 2.7.6, windows 7 and I was able to exceed 512 connections

I think I'll just call the CLI version... don't need anything other 
than smooth downscaling and a few other bits.

a clean installation and call "convert" is enough to give access 
under windows, so that's good enough for me.

I use CONVERT quite a bit, and it works well for me.

I've thought about doing that as well Henrik, but by needs ended 
up being very static. I have also considered a test app that you 
could use to preview the result and then copy the command line, life 
effect-lab and font-lab.

yes, Gregg, I agree. Mine is diverting now towards what I really 
need it for: namely for adding auto-generated images to docs, so 
only some very specific functionality is used. I'll be adding a few 
more features today and then I'll publish it, but I'm not sure how 
much value it has to others than me.

but its more stable than the API and quite fast in any case.

My goal of looking at the API was to avoid the startup overhead when 
using CALL. While I wouldn't mind things being faster, we call it 
*a lot* and it works great. The upside of using the CLI is that you 
don't have to worry about a single instance being your bottleneck, 
and it's scalable.

I think the reflection functions are particularly good to have, and 
most of the others as well. The three I'll vote against are !, ++, 
and -- (still campaigning :-).

... I am trying to vote to finally really finish R3 and release a 
beta .... the wait is terrible .... ;-)

Gregg, I would be OK with using NOT, INC and DEC instead, and said 
so in the original blog discussion where ++ and -- were proposed 
(but was outvoted).

yeaaaahh, I like much more INC and DEC.
Really Z80ish

Add is a complete verb :)  That is why INC and DEC weren't chosen 
at first: REBOL naming standards for built-in functions abhor acronyms 
(ironic) and abbreviations, for the most part (FUNC and FUNCT are 
exceptions). That's why we break out the thesaurus when we want to 
come up with a shorter name, most of the time.

Still, I would appreciate abbreviations to ++ and --, which look 
like ops but aren't.

And I really need it for the next bit.

Yeah. I can pie-in-the-sky and ask for ASSERT, APPLY and RESOLVE 
as well, but I've managed to clone those so they're not as pressing.

The real user-visible improvement would come from adding the set-word 
feature to FOREACH. And maybe REMOVE-EACH, but that isn't as big 
a user win.

You could do that with a temp object and RESOLVE as is, if need be.

2.7.8 additions from R2/Forward: RESOLVE, CD, MORE, LS, PWD, RM, 
MKDIR, SINGLE?, COLLECT-WORDS, INVALID-UTF?, and some compatibility 
fixes to ASCII? and LATIN1?.

And doesn't help me at all, because my DOS background makes me type 
MD instead :(

You should really go over the updates there soon. There are fixes 
to R2 and R3.

The new. You've been in GUI doc hell, and not noticed it.

False and unset were being considered to be default values. Given 
that, noone would have intentionally put those values in their blocks.

It will only be used if it's native, and the mezzanine ASSERT/type 
doesn't work for paths.

Carl "BTW, still missing the fixes Graham made to HTTP. He mentioned 
it the other day ..."


Yes, I keep saying where they are and you keep asking .. so I have 
to track you down to tell you lol.  

Wouldn't it be easier if registered chat users could add to a comment 
page for every page on rebol.com ??  Then nothing would be lost.

Doc and Maarten know this stuff. Probably Gabriele too.

area = rebol2 networking 
and not forum

Oh, I thought you meant here. And Doc writes a web server and networking 
protocols, Maarten has written a HTTP client (at least), and Gabriele 
has written other networking stuff. They're active.

MKDIR removed too. The mezzanines should be current, except for your 
installer changes and Graham's HTTP fix.

A whole bunch of VID documents have been uploaded and updated:

http://www.rebol.com/recent.html

it should be possible to change, as it seems R2 and R3 docs use different 
menu headers.

is there any solution or idea for multiple feeding a running console 
app
started via call/wait/input/output ?
have tried a pass a open port but no luck. the console needs more
than one command to work properly. the ideal solution would be to

hold the console app permanently open, feed it via write-io or (something
like this) and parse the output. any hint?

Because Windows 2008 server is a 64 bit platform and I can't read 
the registry anymore

I setup a Windows 2008 server on Amazon.  Setup Firebird 64 bit and 
a DSN.  Then tried to connect using ODBC.  Failed.