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Henrik, that's really nice and simple.  I would suggest putting in 
some code to check the version number and using the appropriate code, 
for example...

something like this?

As of <today>, it needs at least beta x (windows http://*), this 
and other betas are here: http://www.rebol.net/builds/

I like the idea of a cookbook entry to check on versions. It could 
be expanded to check on OS and other things (what system is this 
script running on?)

I'm going to do a last check on my panes example and then submit 
it to Carl. Haven't done any changes to it.

I've created a new draft for a cookbook tutorial for creating a set 
of configuration loading and storing tools: http://hmkdesign.dk/rebol/configurationtools.html

It's a bit long though, but tell me what you think

Nice, Henrik!


I do that sort of stuff all the time, and I am sure others do too. 
So to have it as a single item is a good thing.


One small point -- your way of extending the existing object works 
only for single-level values....I often have configuration objects 
that have sub-objects. A field added to a sub-object would be missed 
by your code.  Take a look at:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=extend-an-object.r
Which was created for this sort of purpose.

sunanda, I've decided to leave recursive upgrading as an excersize 
to the reader and just made a few notes on it ;-) I must move on 
with the other tutorial now

DideC -- your method is similar to Henrik's, and has the same limitation: 
sub-objects fields do not propagate as you'd expect.....No f2-2 field 
in 'config here:


     standard-config: make object! [f1: 1 f2: make object! [f2-1: 21 f2-2: 
     22] f3: 3]

     config-file: make object! [f1: 88 f2: make object! [f2-1: 99]]

     probe config: construct/with  third config-file standard-config

well, I can remove them and make a part 2 tutorial? such as it is 
now, the code is pretty usable, I think. But it's far from perfect 
in terms of capability, so do we want perfect code across a few examples 
or just this one tutorial?

There's never any such thing as perfect code .. better to get something 
up, and let others build on it .. paraphrasing Isaac Newton

I've set up mediawiki at http://compkarori.com/rebolwiki/index.php/Main_Page
and will see how it goes.

Currently there's a sql error on updating or creating a page, but 
you can ignore that it seems as the page changes are made.

yes, they can get pretty nasty, destroying contents and things like 
that

REALLY hard to wrap my head around the dialect.. and its VERY verbose.. 
yet using the Flash IDE = simple.

It depends on utf-8 and ucs2 projects, zlib if you want to decompile 
some flashes compiled in Macromedia Flash

What you should know is, that the dialect is almost useless if you 
don't know how Flash works and don't know the ActionScript. The good 
start is to registed and download SWF file format specification from 
this page: http://www.macromedia.com/licensing/developer/

and download ActionScript help file as well

And of course the dialect is not for making animations! Use drawing 
programs to make animations. The dialect is for example to do things 
like to generate games for the tiles game: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/swf-tiles.r
--- I'm sure you would not like to do it in Macromedia authoring 
tool:)

how about using 'call and some exe?

all i read was "he zlib dll support for decompressing foreign swf 
files is missing" and remembering there are some small zip-exes for 
commandline.

You can compress/decompress swf's, but some of them (the foreign) 
use probably latest zlib and Rebol cannot decompress them

IIRC some script in the library says there are more options, buffer-size 
and something. rebol can output nearly gzip, but read only a specific 
version.

Just one last thing for now, it's safe to compile only to version 
swf6, I donloaded the spec for swf7 only yesterday and swf8 is not 
documented at all.

Interesting: just downloaded this free ActionScript compiler http://www.mtasc.org/
and will try if it would be possible to integrate it with the rswf 
(so I could use *.as file for actions without need to parse it in 
Rebol)

go here: http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=file_format
register and download

Thanks Oldes, I finally got it and now can learn! How cool. I was 
downloading everything but this doc. : ^)

where is he difference between rswf and mtasc?

Was just checking it a little bit, and it looks that the mtasc is 
pretty complicated. First action script I wanted to compile using 
mtasc was not compiled successfully:) The biggest difference is, 
that the mtasc is only ActionScript compiler, but in my dialect one 
can compile everything (shapes, sprites, images, sound). You must 
use swfmill or how they call it to compile such a things (and it's 
using XML so I thing it's not much useful for making complete application 
in it (as I do).

Oldes: I've updated codeconscious.com for your new link. Linking 
to old and new now.

Thanks, the dialect file updatet a little bit again and there are 
3 new (flash8) examples

And again updated (fixed conversion of 4digit-issues/tuples), 2 new 
examples.

and updated again, current version 1.0.4 (make sure you use the rswf_latest.r 
file with the new examples (there are two more of them)

I already posted it to rebcode group as it's rebcode which allowed 
me to this, but will like to post it here as well, because the main 
reason was to improve the Rebol/Flash dialect again....

Maybe you know that in Flash you can have embedded outlined fonts 
(independend on system) Most of the font's looks blury if you use 
them as outlines so you must use special fonts to get non blured 
pixel precision fonts. I was using some font editor just to see, 
that it's pretty difficult to make such a font so I decided it would 
be good to have possibility to make such a font just in any graphic 
editor - as a bitmap and comnvert it to pixels. Here is the result:


do http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rebol/projects/font-tools/latest/test.r

interesting, this one I haven't known, for me it's enough what I 
have (anyway it looks that you cannot make subpixel fonts with this 
editor and you must do the tracing by hand:)

I was thinking about making visual editor as well, but don't think 
it's so important, I have my font and that's enough for now:)

It could be good commercial product to sell :) There are many users 
- and most free fonts are english only (same with tools for making 
fonts from handwriting f.e.).

hm, but you make 3 fonts and then nobody will need it:) there is 
not many possibilities to make something original in 7x8 pixel grid:) 
and yes, the main reason was, that there are no font's with diacritics 
for my language (even the commercial one don't have it)

I thought about tool for localization :) AFAIK both SimpleFont and 
PixFont are unique on market. Curious - how many software they sold?

Oldes, I'm still amazed at this dialect and the sites you have created. 
I wonder if you have a list of the commands that are being used. 
I've been going through the examples to try to figure out what does 
what but it seems like a list would be faster. Thanks.

Are there other differences between real actionscript and dialect? 
(syntax)? Or is it possible to write an importer? And would it make 
sense, or does one write anyway everything by himself?

Volker, I've just begun to really get into the dialect so I can't 
comment on how one "translates" the actionscript into it, however, 
the actionscript pdf is at least a start into trying to figure out 
the examples.

At this point, I am taking one of the examples from the flash actionscript 
pdf and rework it into the dialect form. Before I had this documentation 
I was just guessing at the whole process.

The main difference is, that I use variable: value instead of variable= 
value :) and do not use commas to divide arguments

and cannot use array[index] but must use pick array index

and do not use for(i=0;i<sz;i++) but use for i sz 1 []

I see. What I mean is taking an actionscript example and converting 
it to your dialect. Right now I'm trying to make a simple "slideshow" 
with fades and I found some actionscript examples. That being said, 
just you saying that the DoAction[] is somewhat like Actionscript 
takes some mystery out of the process.

And I should say, that you definitely must  know the ActionScript, 
if you want to use my dialect.

Oldes, making some progress thanks to your help. There is one example 
with soem embedded rebol code (the arc example). Is there a way to 
have rebol do some processing then expose what it does to flash? 
I want to write a function in rebol to take a string and create a 
block of characters which I then want to pass to flash. 

For example, I can hardcode a_block: ["h" "e" "l" "l" "o"] but I 
would rather send the string "hello" to a function and have it generate 
that block then pass it to flash. It seems that what I do within 
a "rebol [ ]" block is hidden from flash.

First of all, I must say, that there are two main parts of the dialect, 
one which are related to making shapes and sprites in the timelines 
(processed by rswf/tag-rules) and actions (in doAction and DoInitAction 
tags and as a part of Actions subtag in placing sprites and in button 
events) - This is processed by rswf/actions-parser

Thanks Oldes, I will try that. The dialect and AS are becoming clearer 
now with all the info you have given me. I look forward to writing 
lots of cool things. Thanks for the hint about the two main parts. 
I wondered how they were connected as most of the AS tutorial have 
you create something with the GUI then add the AS part.

Worked great! Is there any way to pass AS vars to a rebol block? 
You must think I'm crazy but this is an amazing piece of coding and 
I am determined to use it. I'm curious but when you created your 
work for the incredible web pages you've done, did you make libraries 
or are they basically one large script?

How you want to pass AS vars to Rebol? Once you compile the RSWF 
dialect file, you have Flash which has nothing to do with Rebol. 
But you can connect Flash and Rebol using various ways (, getUrl, 
loadVariables or  XMLsocket connections). When I do some bigger projects, 
I do not use one file, but rather more files conected together using 
"include" or "require" tags.

I'm going to start a new website project and am excited about designing 
some stuff. If I could only make the cool things you do...

And here is new example again: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/index.php?example=155
 using precompiled tweening prototype

Oldes, do you have an eample that could create and embed a swf on 
the fly  ie: via cgi?

And it's easy, you just run rswf and call MAKE-SWF and print the 
result (probably would have to remove some warnings which are printed 
when I run make-swf)

hm, it's not so funny, they were really watching atomic explosion. 
And probably were not so stupid, just the leaders who forced them 
do such a experiments.

just found that the movies for this example http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/index.php?example=116
were missing - in the movie in the middle are czech soldiers on acid 
and the rest are the same chinese soldiers preparing to watch atomic 
explosion.

I got to see a demo of this product : www.Lazlosystems.com which 
is a language that spews out both Flash and JavaScript. (and they 
look the same).

I've just updated the dialect to be able override the default settings 
for maximum recursion depth and ActionScript time-out: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/index.php?example=162

(bytes) And don't see any reason, why it requires Flash 8.5  - it 
can be done in Flash 4

And you must have a Flex Builder which has 112MB = must be all the 
industrial standards so huge?

Interesting........................there is a look to photos taken 
in Europe (mostly East Europe) which is really noticeable in these 
photos.


Like someone set up one very big light, and had 10 minutes to shoot 
everything…very odd.  They did this in America about 30 years ago.

there is still a lot of things to do (for example usage of Func2 
action tag is not finished yet, but this is the version of the dialect 
I used to compile the flash site above and I was also able to compile 
all the old examples (except one) Some of them with a little code 
changes.

I find it useful and that's enough.

I would like to create something like a rebol/flash vid in a future. 
and what I can say is, that I don't like the visual IDE too much 
for coding. All the actions on different frames and in different 
sprites.

And it's always good to know, how something internally works. That's 
what I'm doing - learning.

I know... and I can for example include compiled actionscript using 
the compiler with SDK. Anyway.. maybe I should check more carefully. 
Some scripts seems not to be working, so there is probably still 
something wrong with my compiler.

You can code and compile on all platforms. If you want the official 
Builder (based on Eclipse, or a an Eclipse plug-in),  then you're 
tied to Windows or the Mac.

Yesterday I started rewriting swf-parser, because the current one 
is from year 2002 and is full of nasty hacks and bad approaches. 
I already have the main part of the new one so I will soon upload 
new version of my dialect which will include it:-)

Rebol/Flash dialect (RSWF) version 2.5.0 is available!
compressed: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_latest.r(89kB)

uncompressed: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_2.5.0.r(331kB) 

as colorized HTML: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_2.5.0.html
 (885kB) 

What's new:

- New swf-parser included which replaces old exam-swf function (useful 
for importing foreign SWF files)

- Added implementation of Class definitions for SWF versions 6 and 
higher (I have to create some examples)

- Added new 'trace function into actions (which can be use to compile 
swf files with or without trace calls easily)

- 'require and 'include now accepts block of files or urls (I should 
modify my rswf code colorizer to show included files as well)


Here is also new example how to include first of GUI elements: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/example/swf8-cliphandler

In the future I would like to create something like mini Layout dialect 
which will be used for better positioning of the new GUIs I'm working 
on.

and one more example how to extend existing class to make a new one: 
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/example/swf8-draggablecliphandler

Version 2.7.0 available....

- Fixed bug import-swf (while importing swf file with ExportAssets 
tag)

- Updated layouter (now with new 'Text, 'Scroller, 'ClipHandler and 
'ScrollPane GUIs)

http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_latest.r
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_2.7.0.r


New example script with used ScrollPane is here: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/example/swf8-scrollpane

Version 2.8.0 available....

- Updated layouter (now with new 'Field, 'Password and 'Area GUIs)

http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_latest.r
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/rswf_2.8.0.r


New example script: http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/example/swf8-layout-fields

Version 2.9.0 ... now with Calendar GUI and fixed one nasty bug in 
'IF compilation after 'EITHER rule
http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/rswf/example/swf8-layout-calendar

I guess we don't really care for now as R3 is not yet out, in the 
meantime Oldes probably needs this flash UI now - btw, I'm glad he 
is not waiting for R3, looks like too many people are waiting this 
event and don't start any project.. but that's another discussion! 
not here!

I would like to see you how you create the swf from above in Flash 
IDE... I don't say that IDE is bad... I just need something else 
sometimes... and it's fun for me:) And I'm sure I don't want to write 
apps in MXML.. It's not funny at all. Anyway... making MXML output 
would be much more easier than producing SWF files directly. Anyway... 
I have Flex as well.. it has 196MB. My dialect has 95kB

And I have Import-swf command in the dialect (not documented yet 
as I still change it a little bit). I'm using it to include large 
animations made in IDE. As I have a caching mechanism already, I 
can include it in my dialect and control it in miliseconds, don't 
have to wait many seconds to compile all the animation in the IDE 
every time when I change a bit of a code.

And I'm not limited with restrictions which you have when you use 
includes from external files - I have one file at the end.

and one more reason - to hack a default Flash gui components is for 
me much more difficult than make my own from scratch

It is possible to create drag'n'drop editor in the dialect as well.. 
but first I have other goals. And maybe one day you will be able 
to create layout from Rebol VID too.

Oldes, is there something special about the getURL command. I have 
a function in "doAction" and it clearly gets to it as the cmsg is 
displayed, but I can't get it to actually go to another URL. My flash 
settings are good because your "horse" link works. Any ideas? Thanks,

Oldes, yes, I did figure out that it works perfectly under 6 and 
kinda under 8. That took a while until I noticed that your slideshow 
was created under 6. Thanks.

Using rebol to call mxmlc.exe and deliver it some Rebol generated 
xml gives you a Flash 9 .swf file all set to go.. kinda cool.

Actually .  .. that's not cool at all.


What's REALLY cool is the new adobe flex plugin for Apache...   hand 
Apache some mxml, and it generates the .swf automatically  ..  
Wow.

Adobe AIR beta provides additional features to enhance operating 
system integration:

    * Background applications

    * System tray icon (Windows) / Dock bar bounce (Mac OS X) notification
    * Default windows menus
    * Z-order control for native windows
    * Bitmap drag-and-drop support
    * Customization of program folder entry
    * New Mac and Windows install location

er.. one more.. 

At a high level, Adobe AIR accomplishes this by taking the world-class 
WebKit browser engine (most notably used in Safari), and wrapping 
it alongside Flash and PDF technologies, as a cohesive desktop runtime.

I don't have MXML dialect and don't like MXML and don't like Flash 
default components... sorry, but If I want a chackbox. I really don't 
need 168kB of compressed SWF code.

and your example: The server at atom.thruhere.net is taking too long 
to respond.

If I would like to use Flash components, I would do it. It's not 
difficult at all. You just have to export all the components into 
SWF file (more than 250kB) which I can import using my import-swf 
keyword in the dialect and that's it... than I could just place imported 
classes. But I don't want to do it. I would rather use my own. Yes... 
it's more difficult in the begining, but the more freedom I have 
when I want to do it how I like it to be.

example above updated with external iconset loader and with another 
new style: Menu

I hope it works great.. and I hope the plugin gets fixed properly... 
then I'll mash it in with all the rest.

Can't we just all get along and keep Oldes cranking along with his 
examples? : )  You guys are all great.

If I can throw my two cents here. Terry is right to complain, because 
you can feel he cares, it's not destructive criticism. Pekr is saying 
he's a realist, but to me he sounds more like a dreamer (no offense).Flash 
is a Virtual Machine that lives in the browser. Rebol is a VM that 
lives on several OSes. Flash VM is present on 99% of the browsers. 
Rebol VM is not present  on browsers (plugin doesn't count because 
last time I tried it wouldn't install, and last version is more than 
a year old), and it is present on OSes of a small number of creative 
developers and hobbyists. If I had to develop a commercial app for 
the web, Flash and Flex give me extensive documentation, and a whole 
framework. Rebol can't compete with Adobe, and should not. Last week, 
I developed a GUI in Rebol and Rebgui that would have taken me four 
times longer in any other graphical toolkit, and I had a knack at 
it. But this app is for internal use. Rebol is a great language, 
and I would like to see it evolve as a computer language, not as 
a throw it all in kind of gizmo. It should go Open Source, because 
RT doesn't have the means to provide versions for all platforms. 
Where is the rebol for NetBSD? Last version is 2001. If RT hasn't 
the resources, let the developers do it. I want to run rebol on an 
internet tablet. I had wanted to run rebol on a palm (not anymore 
because Palm is deas, sort of). But the Nokia tablet run debian linux. 
There is no reason for the unabailability of rebol. It is just a 
matter of building it and packaging it. Who has the time for this? 
Plenty of people, they're just not at RT, because there people are 
busy with more important things (like developing the product).

flash is on zero browsers until installed...I've set up machines 
at work for guys in the firehouse to use. Every computer there gathers 
so much adware/spyware/viruses that I can never keep up cleaning 
them. I've had to re-install windows so many times and each time 
I have to re-install the latest flash player. I resorted to setting 
up puppy linux and running off a bootable cd..(with the typical complaints 
about it not being windows) Anyway...rebol plug-in is easire to download 
than flash so what's the bigdeal. I install active-x controls all 
the time when I find a site that interests me and needs the control.

RT will have the main "kernal" closed and its this part that RT will 
develop other parts are left to the community to build

A brief description of R# components and how the "hybrid-open-source 
model" will work: http://www.rebol.com/docs3/architecture.html

The fact it's small and courageous. You side with the losers.

Runtime Core - Closed: This is the OS independent kernel that provides 
standard REBOL capabilities across all systems and devices. It is 
this component that makes REBOL operate identically on Windows, OSX, 
Linux, BSD, Sony, Nokia, Nintendo, and other systems.
-from the above document.

Host Environment - Open: The environment defines an operating system 
abstraction layer (OSAL) that can be ported to a wide range of systems, 
including desktop systems, set-top boxes, mobile devices, and cell 
phones. This approach gives developers a way to run and improve REBOL 
on their specific target platforms.
-from same document

Thanks for the info Peter! and read-thru is only in /view right?

Keep on your project Oldes! That's a very good one. As Pekr mentioned, 
made with Rebol, run with Adobe. That means Rebol may not even need 
a plugin eventually. And for the ones who think alternative solutions 
are not for them, ask yourself what you're doing here! You're at 
the wrong place! Go to MacDo and Pizza Hut, install Vista and don't 
forget to buy an iPhone!