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Another thing I've never tried in Red/System and can't seem to get 
to work:

	min-pixel-area-text: make-c-string 16

 min-pixel-area-text: read-file "config/motion-trigger-min-pixel-area.txt"
	print-line ["Minimum Pixel Area = " min-pixel-area-text]
	min-pixel-area: as-integer min-pixel-area-text
	print-line ["Minimum Pixel Area = " min-pixel-area]

Output:

	Minimum Pixel Area = 1
	Minimum Pixel Area = 3358672

Thanks for the suggestion.   I had the number "40" in the file before, 
and it printed "40", but gave me the same long number in the second 
'print-line.  So I don't think that is it.

I am with Arnold here, but I admit that it might be a psychological 
aspect, nothing more. Simply put - we have some low level stuff available, 
and I fear bulding higher (Rebol level) commands will be waste of 
time, as Doc will most probably rewrite it differently?

Let's take e.g. 'read function. Where will it be created? Red/System 
level? Red level? Both? E.g. Red/System does not allow refinements, 
so I expect some "natives" code will be done using R/S, and higher 
abstraction via routines in Red level?

btw - my brother ordered 3x Arduino kit for our friends, and for 
me he ordered BeagleBone Black. So I will see, if I can get Red programs 
running on it :-)

My motion detection executable on the Pi is 30KB.  The same executable 
compiled for Windows is 15KB (50% the size).


Red currently emits only the standard ARM opcodes, so 32-bit per 
instruction. We'll add support in the future for Thumb mode (more 
compact instruction set). In the meantime, you can try to activate 
the literal pools by adding the following option to the Linux-ARM 
config block (in %config.r):

literal-pool?:	 yes


That should both reduce final binary size and give you a little speed 
improvement. But be sure to test is well as this mode has not been 
much used yet. Also, it might fail to compile if you use very big 
functions, or a lot of code in global context.

Petr, the Red/System READ functions and the higher Red abstractions 
on top of it are already here. As I said yesterday, Doc is free to 
use parts of it when he makes a more elaborate I/O framework in Red

You're not wasting any time on them, are you (except by talking about 
them)? I need them now, and so do others

Thanks for the advice and comments, everyone!  I'm feeling really 
good about Red/System and the greater Red ecosystem now that I have 
a project under my belt.  Kaj's been an immense help and I thank 
others also for their input!

Yes, there is, in my I/O binding and interpreter builds. The basic 
console has very little

You don't make it any size. It works the same as read-file and the 
READ function in REBOL: it allocates the storage for you

Run procmon.exe against it and see if it records a specific file 
not found.

It gives you much more including registry, network, and profiling 
counters in addition to file system calls.

When working with Windows debugging, I typically like to run a process 
through procmon.exe and dependancy walker profiling before tossing 
into the windows debugger.

Yeah run against Process Monitor and look for any access denied or 
file not founds or path not found messages.

ProcMon is more about userland, and Verifier is about drivers that 
actually run

@Doc in your example I now notice the declaration of the local variable 
as well: http://pastebin.com/Dddf57eH

Is that necessary, I didn't use it and all seems to work pretty well.

It was just for the sake of showing that arguments and locals are 
not in the same context.

INPUT and ASK are in the C library binding:

Both for Red and Red/System, in ANSI.red and ANSI.reds

Type mismatch: you can fix it easily with a simple type casting and 
proper string initialization.

foo: as c-string! allocate 100
boo: as c-string! allocate 100

Doc said PDB is undocumented and too complex

You could cross-post it also on the Red ML and Tweeter (I'll retweet 
it).

DocKimbel - so I tried it, and yes, it works ...

As for news channels - if there is anything new, and my time and 
skills permit, I do post. It is a pity, it is not reposted to your 
blog, it looks really dated with latest 0.3.2 Repl release :-( I 
find it a bad strategy, the project seems a bit stalled, at least 
Git get propagated there ....

There are Twitter and Github for day to day news.

If you think about the Twitter plugins on Blogger, they seem all 
dead. Anyway, I would be glad to get rid of Blogger and switch to 
something else, Blogger is horribly bad and outdated.

Well, it works, no? Not sure what other blogging sites/domains are 
available. Twitter kind of removed possibility to freely display 
content via JS code. You can do it, but inside your twitter profile, 
in Settings/Widgets, you can create new display widget. But customisation/design 
options are limited - basically dark/bright theme, number of tweets, 
some other formatting, and that's it. It spits out a little code 
you add to your site, and done ... maybe worth the effort, dunno 
- not sure about minimal width though - more info here https://dev.twitter.com/docs/embedded-timelines

I tried it once IIRC, and couldn't use it for Red site as it was 
requiring too much horizontal space.

Pekr: if you don't have a Twitter account, it would be a good idea 
to make one and post news about the Rebol and Red world from there. 
We need a stronger presence on Twitter.

OK, so tweeted with the reference to #BeagleBoneBlack and #Red_lang 
... feel free to retweet ...

Red was there! I added it, and even later, someone reported, that 
it can be found there.

Red - well, what list are you talking about? I checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
and it is present there ....

AdrianS: thanks, it's reverse-engineered, so, maybe not fully accurate 
and complete, but it  looks like a good start.

Doc - not sure about debugging driver priority, but bear in mind, 
that ppl are waiting for networking and other IO ... e.g. Maarten 
was asking today, when it comes. I think that we need more feature 
complete Red ASAP ...

debugging driver priority

 Not sure if you're mixing things here or not. First PDB has nothing 
 to do with drivers, it's a general-debugging help for Red and Red/System. 
 Second, I never said that drivers or PDB support was prioritary. 
 If I worked on adding driver support for Windows, it was just to 
 help Kaj and Bo use Red in their project, nothing else. The priorities 
 are clear, but I won't be able to resume on them until I get back 
 from Montréal.

I'll add the /deep to %build-arm-tests.r Pekr (Runnable dir is required 
and built by quick-test.r)

I'll also suspend the function tests from the Arm build.

Yes, I mixed it incorrectly. Priorities are surely your call, I am 
just reporting what I can anticipate from ppl asking question here 
or there, and the message is - more complete Red. So - looking forward 
to resumed Red development ...

I see the WinDLL and DarwinSO targets in config.r are now uncommented, 
but LinSO is stil commented out. How do they relate to the -dlib 
compiler parameter now?

Wouldn't it be possible to add MSDOS-ARM and Darwin-ARM targets right 
now, to start testing on Windows Phone and iOS?

Also, once the encapped version will be done for all supported platforms, 
we need to set up a continuous integration chain, with tests and 
builds automated. That will take some time to get done properly, 
so better start now.

Yes, it's a great step. I think the console is important as well, 
so once I get some other things done, we will talk about doc extraction 
and mezzanines in support of that.

Encapped Red seems cool, if it's what I think, it is. To have a script 
included and executed at launch, so it's all in one file?


I wonder, what it takes to do that in World. Probably easy enough, 
just need to figure it out.

Geomol: I think encapped Red means that you can compile Red programs 
from the command prompt instead of having to launch Rebol2 and then 
compile the Red program.

Bo: The issue I had to fight with in my hotel room was just that 
my own prebol replacement lib was adding  an extra layer of MOLDing 
to the input source, because of the workarounds to avoid the #include 
(and others) directive collisions. This resulted in disabling some 
parts of the code leading to  odd runtime errors. I couldn't focus 
enough on it to see it that night because I was too exhausted and 
wanted to listen to the discussion at the same time. :-) (For others: 
my room was a kind of meeting point in the hotel ;-)).


To debug that, I reproduced the preprocessing changes step by step 
in a console until I located the "disabled" parts of the code, once 
I PROBEd those parts in the console, the cause was clear and the 
fix easy.

its been a very long time (7 years) and I think its an undocumented 
feature he added just for me.  :-)

Doc - does encapper means, that we don't need to use R2 console anymore, 
and that Red distro will contain red executable, which will be able 
to compile and run the scripts?

yes, I expect it still being dependent upon R2. What I would do probably, 
is to add R2 for various systems directly into Git repo, I mean - 
executables, and make it - invisible to the user ...

Pekr: answer is yes to your above question. But I will wait after 
the 0.3.3 release to add a Red binary to the repo and a build script 
to encap the Red compiler. Also I need to update documentation and 
see with Andreas how we can set up automated builds for each new 
commits.

I forgot that I also need to merge Red and Red/System compiler front-ends, 
so they will be some work for that future release with binary Red. 
I will probably bump the version number to 0.4.0 for that future 
release.

Oldes: you're right, but the encapped Red is just a convenience to 
make it easier to try and use for anyone as we're getting closer 
to a Red beta.

Doc, I admire your consistent work and progress!

As for me, Alpha means - feature complete, just instable imo, while 
still tweaks here or there might appear. And beta means - 100% feature 
complete, freezed, just bugfixes ...

And Red is missing a lot - objects, IO, networking, parse, and no, 
having R/S libraries for such purpose available does not make it 
any more feature complete. R/S is a different language and should 
be treated as that ...

In almost all my programs, I have a mix of Red and Red/System, very 
tightly integrated. It's a mistake to regard them as separate languages

And Doc himself claims from very beginning, that R/S is mostly for 
integrators, as you are. Most ppl will look into Red, and find such 
features missing. I am really not interested into some Curl binding, 
I want Rebol level ports, etc. based networking. So our milleage 
might vary ...

Osbourne syndrome is, when company announces some product, its features, 
not releasing it for some time, and customers stop buying their product, 
as they wait for new and better stuff to appear ...

With a new Red release, you don't have to throw away your previous 
Red. It's still in there. And you don't even have to pay for the 
new

What's the easiest way to try Red/System? I see do/system and #system 
[ ... ] suggestions in the docs:
http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html#section-17

, but I don't seem to get it to work.

do/system is unimplemented, #system and #system-global are

Normally, you would bind low level interfaces or code using Red/System, 
or the DLL interface in R3, or an extension in R3. You would then 
marshall all the arguments of the low level functions back and forth 
to Red or REBOL all the time

So you're usually handling strings comfortably at the Red level, 
and you can keep simple low level data such as integers and #import 
arguments that only need default values at the Red/System level, 
where they're native datatypes that are handled efficiently

The future and more usage patterns will show what is needed ...

I/O is already here, and my C library binding has parsing functions 
:-)

I expressed my need for R2 like dll interface for R3, as I find it 
easier to use R/S than R3 extensions, and guys said, it will come 
...

you know, for our Led screen, I wrapped the dll using r2, red/system 
and world. In fact, it was rather easy to switch. If there is at 
least some level of compatibility, I like the options ...

Red follows the REBOL model, with batteries included, where you need 
a strict standard. Red/System follows the C model, with a small languages 
that needs to be exttended with libraries, and where many C libraries 
are available that can be bound to Red/System

Doc and/or Kaj, at what point will we be able to use Red and R/S 
to start things off by programming the MBR and jumping to a Red OS. 
What I am interested in is learning to use Red and R/S to build a 
native O/S from the ground up as this is the best way to truly understand 
computers. Also a PC that is Red and R/S from the ground up is a 
very exciting prospect.

Finally back home, need to upgrade my PC with more RAM and better 
wifi adapter tomorrow, then I'll get back to coding...(I really miss 
coding these last days)

I'm upgrading from 3GB to 12GB, I kept having "out of memory" error 
after opening a few dozens web pages and starting some heavy tools 
like Eclipse, Android Emulator or various VM...now I should be able 
to run everything at the same time. ;-)

I'm using only SSD disks since 5-6 years, and HDD only for backups. 
My configuration has one 32GB SSD for OS and one 64GB for VMs. Now 
that SSD prices have dropped significantly, I bought two cheap 128GB 
SSD, so I won't have to fight anymore with disk space for a while.

FYI, I should be travelling to China later this year, so I'll try 
to visit PeterWAWood and onetom on the road.

I'll try to have the Android framework ready before going, so I'll 
be able to make some presentations and demos to local Android groups 
wherever I go.

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-common/dir?ci=tip

Direct download:

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-common/zip/Common+Red+Definitions+and+Utilities-51981a6662cdec45.zip?uuid=51981a6662cdec45d0797fddd84945f4029e9637

@Doc, Ah yes indeed the download.r script! I need to try to get that 
working here together with fossil.

@amacleod, your question has been answered to your satisfaction regarding 
10:33. My previous answer was my try to give some extra info on the 
whereabouts of the files that Kaj provided,as he has been away for 
an hour or so. At 10:50 I had not received the posts from 10:05 and 
later.

directories under red.esperconsultancy.nl are according to the script 
download.r:

test common C-library cURL ZeroMQ-binding REBOL-3 Java SQLite SDL 
OpenGL GLib GTK GTK-WebKit OSM-GPS-Map GTK-Champlain 6502

I copied my list from my browser address field history. Should have 
noticed GLib (first I had tried GLIB and found nothing) was the one 
you asked for.

Well, most bindings. WebKit and such are too non-standard to include

I managed to get the fossildownload from the download.r script running, 
unfortunately everything ended in the downloads folder where the 
script was still placed. I reran the script from the folder I wanted 
the repositories to land. I copied the terminal information output 
to a text document for there are several passwords created for the 
repos and I had not yet time to store them properly..

No need to look the links up over and over again.

It is that ppl outside of here can't know ... Well, many ppl will 
go via offical website and its contributions section. Maybe the script 
could be mentioned there, dunno. OTOH most of the bindings are listed 
there, so maybe there's no need to do so ...

Ok Pekr look back between Sun 10:52 PM by Doc and Mon 12:26 AM by 
Kaj

I know that. And they should know that I have no time to cater for 
them now

I don't need to install REBOL, I'm using REBOL many years already 
and for many purposes every day, I'm sure I would not use Fossil 
for anything else than just download your scripts.

Aha, I already have Fossil installed and use it for many purposes. 
So the Fossil dependency is very much like the REBOL dependency

Exactly, and that's not going to happen. I develop in Fossil, so 
that's the source of things

I agree.  If someone has a favorite or preferred tool and I want 
to access that person's work, I will learn the tool instead of making 
the person change.

Do we have a Fossil group? If not, we should, so this knowledge and 
chat doesn't get lost.

I know Kaj has posted thing a number of times, and I hate to make 
him repeat himself.

And why I make a script instead of installing Fossil? Because I like 
to write such a "data mining" scripts.. It's something like for someone 
else solving sudoku, for example.

Difference between Github's web UI and Fossil's web UI is that Github 
can generate stable download URLs for the "latest" version. That's 
a huge difference even from an efficiency standpoint.

Be sure to use them in the future, and the Fossil UI can be side-stepped 
completely.

Never saw such a link for download.r before (and don't find anything 
using AltME search either, but then ...).

I published three links in that form in the Announce channel, just 
not of download.r. There are many files, and people are already tired 
of my links

I'll keep it in mind. And I'll remind of this request when people 
complain about my announcements again :-)

In any case, that's the difference between Oldes' link posted before 
and your previous "get download.r from http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/dir?ci=tip".
Oldes' link doesn't require you to interact with Github's UI, your 
link requires one to interact with Fossil's UI.

Yes, because I want to supply some context and I don't want to spam 
with many links that can also be had on one web page

I am with Kaj on this. Supplying the download link when you update 
some project is not meaningful. If the corresponding link to the 
fossil rep is posted you can take a quick look at the  projectfiles 
and then decide if it is worth the troul]ble for you to update your 
own repo's with the dl script.

Besides that, the Github is not a nice solution imho just chosen 
because of free, and widely used (for exposure purposes) not for 
real ease iyam (if you ask me). So better appreciate the huge work 
Kaj has pulled of to make Red much more widely useable and accept 
his choice.

My use is quite simple. I just check in my work and seldomly need 
a branch. It can be seen in the timelines

Kaj: depends if it's in a function body or in global context, and 
if the bodies are stored or not.

How does the compilation differ between global context and a function 
body (apart from storing)