AltME groups: search

all and most of the chaing software you have now are inspired by 
IRC

you was able to set mode to the channel like every one can enter 
but they can't speak by default if they want to speak the cannle 
operation (the owner and his granted friends ) have to give you the 
right to speak (/mode usernickname +V or -v to shut him up lol)

And there are REBOL clients?

you could kick and ban ppl too kick is booting out the user from 
you channel and ban provide him to come back

rKini is one (not ended ...) or irc-client.r buy oldes IRc was client 
was my first project and how i discover rebol ^^

but i should retake rKini and port it to rebgui that would be nice 
I think

so how people in IRC know what are the channel on the server and 
what are they talking about in you client you type /list and you 
get the list of all the channel and their topic (title) and the amount 
of people you have in it

yeah and even channels were not persistant so anyone could enter 
your channel and become the channel operator ( the first in joining 
a not already existing channel is set automatically chan operator)

but now in day server offer chanel admistration services to make 
hem persistant and acknoledge people define by the initial owner 
channel operator that was proposed by Dalnet initially because I 
and some other proposed to much bots to manage channel and that was 
surcharging the server with persistant connection for nothing

no i don't  sorry ...  I like the idea of unpersistant chats 

one day you can come to have meaning less conversations the other 
one you can come to have very high level conversations and all that 
disapear the momment you log out lol

of course now in day clients have loging mechanism you can make you 
bot to log the conversation too that way you have a trace of conversation 
on your channel even if you are not there that's a client side issue 
server only share intputs/ output  and don't log the conversations 
I was adminsitrator on Undernet IRC like 17 years ago and ppl their 
was accusing use to log the conversations and sell them to CIA ... 
But reality is no I worked anough on the server source code (to fix 
those annoying bugs and extend them ) to assure you client side conversation 
are not store

and for one good reason in some country like China for example you 
can't speak freely ... so part of the idea is anyone can comme and 
speak of anything and to not turn the authorities totally impossible 
to talk actions agains the server holders

Are there ssl clients and comms?

graham that was possible ofcourse that's why by default bots where 
prohibated seek and connection terminated

plus as the conversation are segmented in channels and that a channel 
can prohibitate you from enterring logging all the conversation on 
one server was impossible and you have the user to user private chatting 
concept like in altme

so one conversation might get carried on different channels and gets 
reassembled at the other end?

and as server side you don't store any information then the server 
side is really really small in space

give me 1 persistant connection and 3Mo of hard drive anywhere i 
will do you an IRC server  ^^

So, I need to setup a IRC server and write an IRC client in Rebol

when you type a message it is forwarded to all the people in you 
channel list and nothing more

first the channel operator can manually kick and ban any user not 
talking to his channel

and that even one of the ways to evaluate the intelligence of an 
AI how many time it will spend before saying supid things or repeating 
itself

hum that's part of the project i made and no one will put it's end 
on it cause well humanity is not prepared to have thinking machines

ok so the nice pont on IRC is volatile and exclusive side of the 
chatting and the fact that the server is enough simple to be implemented 
every where and installed on any kind of machines

IRC had that great point to be a public domain project anyone could 
get the server sources and see how things  are done

and htat was bothering some ppl so much lol ... free expression is 
not a light thing for some people. For example when i say to Paul 
or other here is not the place to discuss on some subject that's 
not that i deny them the right to speak about it that means just 
I don't want to be involved in it and having those conversation kind 
persistant pose me real trouble ...

that's a thing i like in rebol too the hability to reach a software 
and run from the consol

and that #rebol channel is no longer in use?

Hmmm, not sure, seems it would be a big number.  If 1K peple logged 
in and all started downloading messages at the same time it could 
be a port issue?

And is it an Altme problem or rebol based...Graham, does Synapse 
chat have the same limit?

actually, its easy to figure out if rebol really has a 50 connection 
limit, just open a listener port and call a one line connection rebol 
script more than 50 times.

there's about 10 users logged in here at present .. and the lag time 
is significant

we've been two and it was 10 sec lag, and 15-20 and 1 sec lag.

well, the source is there .. just modify it to login automatically 
and start sending serial numbers to see if they are returned.

it melts your computer and spams alll the people in your contact 
list  ;-)

The nice thing is AltME asks you if you want to download large files 
or leave on the server, and highlights these icons with different 
coloured backgrounds.  so they are accessible and ready when you 
want them to be downloaded.

It looks like the next Altme is tied to R3. I don't have a full view 
of Altme's roadmap which seems more like a poorly marked trail. I've 
tried to follow it somewhat using sources like this group, Carl's 
blog and most recently his slides from DevCon 2007. However, I'm 
not involved in R3, so I suspect I've missed some important sources.

It's definitely a technical limitation. There was a limited release 
of a version with a much bigger file size limit, but AFAIR, it was 
unstable and quickly retracted.

I'm a little worried about granting everyone group rights in the 
world I'm creating. It will be mostly NYC firefighters, many of which 
have little computer/internet/web experience and might delete groups 
accidently or maliciously as the are a group that is not always as 
well behaved as most reboler's. 


But at the same time I want them to be able to create private groups.


If a group is deleted how difficult is it to restore it...if possible...with 
previous messages.

I wouldn't grant this then.  Have a group for "new discussion topics", 
and your trusted admins can create them when available.

As far as i can tell, the files stored under the world name show 
only when a user joined and when they last posted.

Clearly, AltME is sending connection information -- we can all see 
that if we sort the Users list by Status. But is there an API to 
access that? There may be an answer available here :-)
http://www.altme.com/feedback.html

kee dropping out today ... and lost my 3rd message.

Reichart, can you confirm that nothing is screwed up on the machine 
running this world, or its internet access... it is seriously breaking 
up.


earlier, I had a drop every 30 seconds, I tried to post a message 
7 times...  graham and I had to chat elsewhere cause it was getting 
just to insane.

Maybe someone could contact Carl and ask him to restart worlds? IIRC 
it helped in the past ...

the post dropping is the # 1 bug in Atlme.  lets just prevent it 
from flushing the text area before it receives the post, and at least 
we won't be frustrated.


the clearing of the view when a connection is dropped is also EXTREMELY 
annoying... you have to click back on the group, and it clears te 
"unread" bg color and resets the scrollbar.   these can be changed 
without any real coding change required... its just preventing a 
few things in the gui/network event handling.  maybe we could just 
the bg of the Network status to RED, that accomplishes the same goal, 
but doesn't turn us into enraged altme users.

[third repost]: There's a good list of bugs and suggestions starting 
here:
http://www.rebol.org/aga-display-posts.r?post=r3wp151x457

As a test I have both the r3-alpha world, the r2-beta world and this 
one open.  I got dropped multiple times from this one but the other 
worlds were  fine during this.

Sunanda, thanks for the link. I had a good read of that and was surprised 
to not find any requests for keyboard shortcuts, paticularly the 
use of the arrow keys to scroll lists & text.. That would be my top 
request I think.

And i'm only connected to that world

And for the exact time frame we have seen it heere too....hmmmm...

It already happened in the past and IIRC someone called Carl and 
he restarted servers. I contacted him privately yesterday in R3 Chat. 
No reply so far, maybe RT is on vacation :-)

I think there was once, and also a FTPgadget channel

I did a full search in altme and didn't find it.

17,000 posts in this world so far already this year, and only 18,000 
for the whole of last year.

NB: with regards to Prefixing group names... just today... had the 
groups been prefixed, I would have found a post I have been looking 
for the better part of an hour... just cause I'd have noticed the 
group name next to network related groups... I actually looked at 
the name and never *clicked* it was a network group...  ' : - /

I am really happy that it seems "internet busy" thing is gone .. 
I missed this place last days and it wasn't possible to be efectively 
here either

Yes, me too --- AltME REBOL3 has gone erractic again....I am watching 
it connect and disconnect every few minutes.


AltME's world check repeatedly shows it as available and then not 
responding(or not available) in a very short cycle:
www.altme.com/check.html

I've sent  a feedback to RT about this.

What is the problem with Windows 7? 2,5 years on Vista here, and 
no single problem ....

I have not altme installed on my system, I just run it IIRC, and 
in C:\!REBOL\Altme

If you are on a system with more than one user, you can do what Chrome 
does and install under each user's Local Settings folder, or Application 
Data if you don't care about roaming profiles. Different folder names 
on Vista, but the same principle. Vista's "new" security behavior 
is just working around apps that don't obey the Windows 2000 directory 
usage rules.

I'm trying to start an altme world from a desktop shortcut icon using 
the target : "c:\Program Files\altme\altme.exe" -s "my world"'-p 
5401


It seems to start the server as I get the little server window stating 
the name of the world and # of users total and online...

But I can not connect to the world.


Is it somekind of port problem or can you just not do this with the 
regular version of altme.


I get alot of brownouts and I would like to place the shortcut in 
my startup drawer to auto strat the world....

scroll the history in this channel. Altme is a bit weird in behaviour. 
Me and others tried to describe the aproach ....

Yes, it defaults the first running world on your machine to 5400, 
and increments each server started after the first server by 1.

So, it's important that if you intend to have two worlds running 
at the same time, to have your first world running (using port 5400) 
so when you create your second world it is given the next available 
port number (5401) and that is what Safeworlds will record for that 
second world.

It becomes more complicated if you want to remove the first world 
at a later date, cause launching your second world will use port 
5400 instead of the port number it was created under (5401), and 
the world server will be expecting 5401.  At least that was my experience 
when I was making some demo worlds a few years ago.

So if you have two worlds running on two seperate computers (both 
on port 5400) and you later wish to run them on hte same computer 
you are going to have a problem....

AS safeworlds expects both to be on 5400 and your going to need to 
assign one to another port...

That would be my understanding.  The only way I know of getting around 
that is by creating a new world with a new name on the computer hosting 
the two (while the first is running remember), then copy the world 
files from the one computer to the new world and it should recognize 
the files as belonging to that new world.  I don't believe the contents 
of the world has any reference to the world name, so the files can 
be moved from one world to another without issue.

I ran into the trouble of a world becoming unavailable.  I simply 
created a new world, copied the world files over, and all was back 
in order in the new world name... except I had to click on all groups 
to make the unread after synching to the new world.

A note on the resync bug.......I just accidently let my laptop run 
out of power while online. Under Windows, that sort of simulates 
a hard crash.
When I rebooted, AltME had lost my user name and password.
I surprised myself by remembering both.


Then AltME set about resyncing about 20 groups. In some of them I 
can now see messages dating back to 2005....Apologies if you'd been 
expecting replies from me.


So, yet another method that may trigger a resync if you have groups 
that appear stuck :-)

Another recipe how to get a resync: wait for a storm (quite frequent 
here these days) and a blackout while running AltMe. As opposed to 
Sunanda's experince I did not lose the password, just got a resync 
dating back to about 2005.

I'm getting timeouts here again .. and yesterday it was down for 
a long period.

I saw some poor responses and/or short outages yesterday too. Looking 
better today.

well. being an account of 10% of posts and not having posted for 
2 months... I guess I am a sizeable part of the decrease... but its 
summer, vacation time, and many of us actually have less questions 
with R3.0 than its earlier releases...  what I find strange is the 
decrease in the number of people posting...

I'm thinking of something that has both a VID/Ext interface and a 
browser interface

not sure how Robust R3 chat is. After all - it is just one of possible 
architectures. It is true that I doubt it is much advanced. It is 
good for Chat, even threading, moving threads here or there, ranking, 
etc., but we are imo not following latest developments of distributed 
apps. Some few years ago I read something about Cademlia etc. protocols, 
but not sure what it is all about. OTOH - look at Altme - it is running 
for years. And if its back-end would be DB based, it would be enough 
for a long time probably.

And you can use https if you wish too.

ambition, and the ability to fufill are two different matters :(

disconnected this time ... here and R3beta

Do you think it would make sense to implement few AltME enhancements, 
which would not alter its messaging layer, but could help to make 
our lifes easier? Some few months ago I contacted Carl, and he was 
willing to post particular code sections for related areas. I read 
also some 2005 list, and picking from (apparently easy to fix) bugs/enhancements:

- DeRED - mark everything read
- fix URL display bug
- fix proxy
- fix msg loss during reconnect .... (might be more complex)


I just don't know, if it is good to bother Carl with those issues 
right now, when R3 is heading towards beta and we need to concentrate 
on it ...

http://lifehacker.com/5371491/give-out-and-receive-your-google-wave-invitations-here

= if you don't use iPone and Chrome as your browser, you are not 
modern and trendy :-)

We need to create VID3 equivalent, call it SideWave, and we have 
killer app for REBOL :-)

I'm using Google Wave at the moment (in Safari not Chrome) and it 
offers a *bit* more than AltME in a browser.

I just tried security essentials on one pc and it claimed to find 
a Trojan in one of the AltMe chats.
Anyone with the same experience?

Altme.com once again lost my world registrations :-( Our worlds are 
running locally without outage, and also our router has 234d uptime. 
I really wonder, when/how it can happen, but as it already happened 
in the past, this really start to be depressing ...

Pekr, welcome to my world.  I eventually gave up complaing about 
it and found the occurences to be far less frequent when I went down 
to a single world being hosted on my home PC.

This is the first time I lost my world and one has been running no 
problem for over a year...

I re-started/registered and its back up again...I was afraid the 
old files might get overwritten or some other screw-up but no probs

Yes, the port used is reused when you start up again.  Whic is why 
if you run more than one world you restart them in the sequence they 
were created.  So you would have the world on 5400 started first, 
then while that world is running, restart the world running on 5401, 
and while that is also running, restart the world running on 5402. 
 (I'm hoping I got the port numbers correct, too lazy to look it 
up)

well I restarted two worlds and I do not think I started them in 
the same order but all seems fine...might have just got lucky..

in any case the server its hosted on, should just scan the process 
list and restart it automatically when it falls...  maybe its a network 
issue... which makes the service unreachable.

Or post a request on their behalf into the
   Accounts
group.

We need their name, and email address (to send the join message to 
them)

its not for a specific person... but if I add support information 
for remark and provide altme as a resource... I want them to be able 
to get a user without being a reboler.

I'll make that my first remark v2 form project  :-)  and I'll allow 
you to link to it from rebol.org if you want  :-)

Lost my worlds again...how often does this occur. 

I went months without seeing/knowing of this problem and now its 
twice in about two weeks...

When I was running multlple worlds it seemed like every month or 
two it would occur.  Then I shut down my seldomly used worlds and 
the I didn't get the problem for many months, and have only had it 
happen once or twice in the last year to year and a half.

I have probably new bug with Altme server - I can't connect to world. 
It even does not try to, as I can't see any outgoing packets to IP 
of my world on particular port (xyz:5402). AltME client says - xyz 
exists, but not-online. But - our worlds ARE online. When I go to 
altme.com/check.html, the world seem to be online, and the site also 
is able to connect to it.


So I inspected TCP packets in Wireshark, and it states: "cmd: find 
data: ["xyz" 0 1.2.17.3.1 4811897].cmd: lookup data: inactive ."

Dunno - it was signed as Safeworld's technical support :-) The issue 
is still not resolved and I can't get to my worlds ....

There's an old issue I hit again recently, where new connections 
to the world can't be made, but existing sessions still work. Restarting 
the world from a shortcut doesn't work to solve it. You have to start 
AltME and choose 'Start a World'.