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But I do think it's incredibly superficial that I release half a 
decade worth of work, and the discussion on OSNews is entirely about 
how well I compressed it, and the discussion here is entirely about 
how bad I compressed it

I don't have statistics yet, but Server must have been downloaded 
a number of hundred times now. Desktop has had up to ten thousand 
downloads per version, of the installation CD. Plus a similar number 
for the live CDs, plus about half that for the VMware images. Server 
is twice as big, and will have far more downloads when we get the 
graphical environment on it

Coming year will be our breakthrough year. At some point, we will 
be published in a big place, and the downloads will boom. And they're 
directly linked to my credit card, not yours

I might add that we're taking these costs for the sake of REBOL. 
There are many places who will host open source software as sponsors, 
and our Desktop installation CDs are still on SourceForge, but we 
can't do that with Syllable Server, because REBOL/Core is included

We've gone through a series of hosters, and it's a pain. We're consolidating 
on S3 now

I just checked my vmware appliance that does my torrents and I see 
the Syllable server now has 5 seeds, and my share ratio went up from 
0 to .5 now!

Nah, it's too much hassle, and we want the download statistics

Mirroring is automatic when people use BitTorrent, and we still get 
the statistics

As goverments are moving to 1984 style, these two aspects will become 
more and more important.

We definitely want to be something like "the Apple of open source". 
And unlike Apple, freedom is very important, too ;-)

The second Syllable newsletter has interviews with me about Syllable 
Server and our new website, so you can read a bit about our platform 
strategy and how we use REBOL in it:

The porting API of R3 isn't quite settled yet, and the library would 
have to be compiled for Syllable. Not a big problem.

As I understand it the library is a sort of a "VM" and you need to 
write an interpeter for the platform.

And I thought I read that it was ported to mac os X so the specs 
for the interpreter must be there

Nope. The library is a shared library like a .so or .dll, and later 
statically linked like a .o or .lib.

The method, yes. The api and specs, still in process.

I use linux but I'm always hitting a wall and going back to windows 
for some tasks. Plus it seems too big and bloated.

If you have experienced Amiga, you know why Linux is failing, and 
you should have some idea why Syllable has a much better chance

yes as an iso...if you click the link it brings me to a web page 
with jibberish on the screen as if its displaying binary data so 
I saved and changed the name removing the htm.

yes I right clicked and saved file without the htm extension.

What operating system and browser are you using?

xp and ie

I tried burning it on another drive and using different software. 
I'll be right back

Are you sure that's what you get when you rightclick on the link 
and choose Save or something equivalent?

removed the .htm and bittorrent seems to be downloading it.

Years later, Apple also used it for Safari, and in our latest version, 
we have also changed to this improved WebKit engine

And it's very fast and memory-friendly

Ok, I renamed it with the bz2 ext and used 7zip to decompress. Buring 
now. will try again...

got it to boot but the display frequency wa out of range on one computer 
and it froze earlier in the sequence on the other

This year we made a big split. I created a Linux distro based on 
my build system for Syllable. We call it Syllable Server, and Syllable 
proper is now called Syllable Desktop

Server and Desktop are as similar as possible, enabled by my build 
system and the fact that Syllable Desktop was already POSIX compatible. 
But the lower layers of Server are Linux: the kernel and support 
software around it

We are porting the userspace of Desktop to Linux. My build system 
and package management are already there, including ORCA. We are 
working on porting Syllable's graphics system and desktop environment. 
It will not be based on X11

The Linux gives us stability right now, drivers and applications. 
One of those is REBOL/Core, which is included in Syllable Server

We are working on porting Syllable's graphics system and desktop 
environment. It will not be based on X11
 <--- I like it better already.

We're using DirectFB on Syllable Server and are going to put our 
own graphics system on top of that

how are they doing on drivers and such?

I wouldn't worry too much about driver support anyway. What I hate 
about X11 is the complexity and how easy it is to knock over. I encounter 
many people who move away from Ubuntu and back to Windows simply 
because X11 screws up its own configuration.

so DirectFB is reliable and simple to work with?

I mean, on the server I just need a text interface and no GUI frills. 
Just lean and mean machine.

We've been doing that for the past half decade, and we have not achieved 
a breakthrough yet

It takes longer to get stability and apps, especially for server 
requirements. And we are not going to design our kernel for server 
requirements, because it is optimised for desktop

Syllable Desktop doesn't have a text-only mode. It's really a desktop 
system, and Linux is really a server system

Karl is making fixes and small enhancements every once in a while, 
and I am making package releases

And we released last night. Sorry, but I had to sleep before thinking 
of you guys

By the way, OLPC is now working with Microsoft to get Windows XP 
on their laptop, and they're so pleased with it because it is so 
much faster than they could get their Red Hat Linux to work in several 
years of development

Of course, the memory needs to be doubled to get XP on it in the 
first place... After they already doubled the main memory and upgraded 
the processor to get their Linux to run

So now their sales pitch is: here is a unique machine with unique 
software that is good for your kids. It's open source, so it's superior. 
It's just that it's very slow, so you can also choose to boot it 
in this Windows thing. The special kid's environment and all the 
special driver software isn't there, but at least it isn't slow as 
molasses. Oh, we doubled the price of the machine, and to run this 
Windows thing you also have to buy and install this extra memory 
upgrade

One minor comment on the Syllable about page ... the content is fine 
but the page is "too busy". Perhaps moving the "Syllable for ..." 
inline content off on a separate page (or pages) might be a good 
idea. Also need to regroup the bullet points ... it's generally a 
bad idea to have a heading followed by more than about 7 bullet points 
(your first set has 21, so splitting the Desktop and Server points 
into sub-categories should improve things).

It shouldn't be a big problem to get Syllable Server on it. Use their 
kernel configuration and add their drivers for their special hardware

Although QEmu runs on the current Syllable development versions, 
so if you really wanted to (and some of us do) you could run REBOL 
in Linux or Windows on QEmu

Cheyenne and QuarterMaster are included, but their configuration 
is not complete yet. Should be easy to finish for someone already 
familiar with them, though

I'm working on the configurations for the new servers, and I got 
Cheyenne running on Syllable Server a while ago

As you can see on our site, we managed to install Syllable on an 
Asus Eee PC a while ago and are improving our support for that

On the other hand, the incentive to run Syllable is much greater 
for the netbooks, because the difference with other systems is much 
more noticable there. Although they're full PCs, they're basically 
still a new form factor, and they bode well for our future

The third release of Syllable Server has been published. This is 
an important release, because it is the first one that focused on 
making the system actually usable as a server. A number of popular 
servers were added and configured, and also several innovative REBOL 
software stacks. Out of the imaginary box, Syllable Server is now 
ready for such things as accepting remote SSH log-ins over the network, 
running a web server on the Cheyenne REBOL server, running an FTP 
server and several more. Special attention has been paid to programmability, 
with support for developing Model-View-Controller web applications 
in QuarterMaster and networking applications with the REBOL/Services 
Service Oriented Architecture. The Genode Nitpicker windowing system 
is also included. Read the rest in the full changelog. An extensive 
manual was also written, which is easy to follow. As usual, both 
a BitTorrent download (preferred) and a regular download are available 
(80 MB 7-Zip archive). Please use the torrent if you can.

This release focuses on making the system usable for running a number 
of standard servers, and several innovative REBOL servers.


The development files of the system, program headers, static libraries 
and development documentation, were moved to a separate area in /system/development/ 
and are now shipped in a separate package. If you want to compile 
software on Syllable Server, you need to install and register this 
package. The development files need to match the system: you can't 
use a package of any other Syllable version. (You will also need 
to install the Developer's Delight package collection and possibly 
other packages.)


User directories were moved from /home/ to /users/. Resource packages 
are in the process of moving from /usr/ to /resources/. /resources/ 
is currently a symbolic link to /usr/ so that resource packages will 
work from both places during the migration.


Many fixes were made, including more fixes for the CUPS print server 
and GhostScript. Creation of extra user accounts is possible now.


Many packages were updated, including the Linux kernel, IPTables, 
the GCC libraries, OpenSSH, SDL and QEmu. DirectFB was not upgraded 
due to incompatibility with Links2.


CDRTools were included for burning CDs, and the NetCat networking 
tool and the Transmission BitTorrent client were added.


In addition to the Syllable-specific early initialisation scripts 
(in the early-init subdirectory of packages), the late initialisation 
scripts (in the init subdirectory of packages) are now also executed. 
Several more initialisation scripts from Linux From Scratch were 
also added. Some servers can be started with the LFS scripts, others 
with the Syllable scripts (this will be unified in later releases).


The OpenSSH server was configured and now runs by default. At the 
first system start, security keys are generated that identify the 
server.


A collection of well-known root certificates from Certification Authorities 
was added to allow OpenSSL-based programs (such as OpenSSH) to establish 
the identity of destination points for network connections.


A MIME-types database was added in /etc/mime.types that is used by 
many programs, such as web servers, to identify the MIME types of 
files based on their file name extensions.

Several REBOL software stacks were added:

- The REBOL/Services Service Oriented Architecture.

- The UniServe network server framework.
- The Cheyenne Apache-class web server.
- A CAPTCHA library.
- A MySQL network protocol.

- The QuarterMaster web programming framework, based on a Model-View-Controller 
architecture. By default, it's configured to run on Cheyenne.


- The TINY library for parsing text, abstracting data access and 
building templates of generic text formats (including HTML). This 
library is an original creation and targets both ORCA and REBOL.


Configurations, including initialisation scripts, were added for 
the OpenSSH remote access server, the CUPS print server, the BIND 
domain name server, the Apache web server, the RSync file synchronisation 
server, the SaMBa Windows-compatible file server, the INetUtils FTP 
server and the VSFTP FTP server. Several of these are not included 
in the system, but need to be installed separately (the system is 
prepared for them). The sshd, cupsd and initd servers are started 
by default.


S3Cmd/S3Sync was included, a tool for accessing the Amazon Simple 
Storage Service (S3) and synchronising files with it.


As a demo, the Genode operating system framework, its Nitpicker windowing 
server (built on SDL) and its demonstration programs were included.

Further, a lot of nonsense happened and I had to spend a lot of time 
on other things, such as creating alternatives for disappearing websites

It wasn't very usable at the time, though. It has fundamental and 
practical problems

Graham, does RebelBB need only REBOL and Dovecot?

Kaj, there never was any documentation except the source code which 
is linked at the bottom.  and all you need is Rebol and an imap server.

the missing link you refer to is the rebol documentaion project .. 
and yes, that has disappeared.

anything smaller than what I have is good, and a virtual disk that 
can grow

to make sure the mouse, and clock work and the video too I think 
.. though that's not so necessary in a non-gui environment

that's the problem I had initially with the first vm I used ... no 
vmware tools installed and so the clock was never right.

At least, not in the normal environment. DirectFB and SDL are included, 
but it's basically a console system

If so, you'd have to install the developer packs, too, and the size 
of the thing increases

I'm out of time for working on Syllable, but I'll squeeze some things 
in here and there

If I just add RebelBB and Dovecot to the stripped version I was going 
to work on anyway

We'll have to see how serious the problem is, and if we can correct 
it by using NTP on the Syllable guest

hardly heavily loaded .. just rebol and dovecot

Looks like Ladislav and I wrote this.

the other way is just setup a time server on the host os and use 
the daylight protocol

I actually stripped out all the html and compress the data which 
is then downloaded by a rebol client

Sounds like it costs more time to configure all the pieces (and keep 
them running on time) then to write it in REBOL

Similar considerations made me build two operating systems instead 
of keeping messing with Linux and Windows

But you did, for the REBOL client, and the time?

and to avoid messing with dbms

I'll let it go around in my brain and keep you posted on my work

Did the first build run of a stripped Syllable Server last night. 
Worked right away. Stripping out things such as printing and scanning 
reduced the footprint from 370 MB to under 250

REBOL/Core is 700 KB and that includes rebbase and a bit of documentation

Cheyenne and QuarterMaster combined are 520 KB

In contrast, Ruby, which is only there for an Amazon S3 script, and 
which is one of the smallest popular languages, takes 11 MB

Oh, ORCA takes about 450 KB, including the library and the documentation

Karl sporadically makes bug fixes. I will start doing that, too, 
and enhancements, when I get to it

Porting and configuring Dovecot and RebelBB will take some time, 
anyway

and I tried both with similar results

from Andrew Martin

Printer: func [Text [string!] /Page] [
    secure [
        %//prn [allow write]
    ]
    write %//prn Text
    ; Append Carriage Return (CR) and Page Feed.
    if Page [write/binary %//prn "^(0D)^(page)"]
    Text
]

and so %//prn will still work ...

mine and budget. we can't afford a better printer.

now if they stopped that winprinter crap and had postscript as standard 
in all printers... the hardware to do that should be fairly cheap 
for that today.

and then you can dump the resulting prn file to the printer vs creating 
a bitmap??

and a new PC. that stupid machine just died. glorious day today.

setup a HP printer ( eg an old laserjet ) and set the driver to print 
to a file

take the printer output and send it directly to the printer if you 
can .. see what happens

the HP driver probably takes PCL and creates a bitmap and then sends 
it to the printer

ghostscript can generate pcl from postscript ... and then you can 
feed it to the driver

There are many printer specific bugs that require a windows printer 
driver to make postscript printing work properly


Bad news for me! I'm working on a new version of a huge application 
for a customer, and I was about to rebuild their printing in a couple 
of months. I planned to use the rebol postscript dialect.

Geomol, I built a printer abstraction system called system-print 
for my apps. It's not finished, but for what it does it works sort 
of OK. You can choose printing method via a GUI and it auto-detects 
Ghostscript and uses it if necessary.

It supports currently print to file, print to LPT, print to Ghostscript, 
print to screen (as in screenshot), print to ethernet printer and 
to a custom network printer server made in REBOL for some simple 
printer sharing.

you feed a postscript layout through a parser, which fills in dynamic 
values and then it's run through postscript.r and then it's fed through 
system-print to the appropriate printing method.