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4-May 19:57 UTC
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world-name: r3wp

Group: !Cheyenne ... Discussions about the Cheyenne Web Server [web-public]
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
So could I, if I wasn't also running Cheyenne, MySQL, and my whole 
development platform.
Dockimbel:
3-Apr-2009
I just tested with latest Chrome (1.0.154.53) with %www/post.html 
test script and it seems OK here, no error. I get the file(s) in 
 %incoming/ folder.
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
It works fine. I only use IE for testing and Qtask - everything else 
I use Chrome. I know how to make a Windows machine stable :)
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
Let me try upgrading Chromium and see if the problem goes away.
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
Here's the test source:
<!doctype html>
<html><body>

<form action="blah.rsp" method="POST" enctype="multipart/form-data">
<input type="file" name="ufile" size="16" />
<input type="submit" name="usubmit" value="upload" />
</form>
</body></html>

And here's the test target:
<%=mold request/content%>


I get the same error with show.rsp, so I went with something simpler.
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
I've only tested it with IE and Chromium. I never really trusted 
the REBOL http client, so I wrote my own. Let me try that.
BrianH:
3-Apr-2009
Great. Just tried 458k pdf files and I get the same Error 324, but 
with no logged script error and the temp file gets left there.
Dockimbel:
4-Apr-2009
Testing on XP SP2 with Chromium 2.0.160.0, no issue here. If you 
could catch and send me the POST data, I could figure out what's 
going wrong.
Endo:
21-Apr-2009
No, I was always logged as administrator, I gave everyone full access 
to all the files and folders in cheyenne folder
Endo:
21-Apr-2009
and if you put a plugin to your www folder
Dockimbel:
21-Apr-2009
Cheyenne process script files declared in %httpd.cfg config file. 
In the default config file, you have :
	bind-extern CGI to [.cgi .r]

which means that both .cgi and .r are treated as CGI scripts and 
executed.
Robert:
30-Apr-2009
Web-Apps Login: Is the login page always presented as first page 
if a user isn't yet logged in and tried to access an other page directly?
BrianH:
30-Apr-2009
Web-Apps Login: Is basic authentication supported? I have a situation 
where form-and-cookie authentication is awkward.
BrianH:
30-Apr-2009
Oh, and cool, thanks. I really need basic authentication though, 
with no cookies required. Either that or to be able to specify sessionids 
as get parameters, or maybe post sometimes. I need to support stateless 
clients.
Dockimbel:
30-Apr-2009
DELETE: not out of the box. If you want to add support for new HTTP 
methods, you need to build a custom module for Cheyenne that would 
take precedence over mod-static/method-support handler. If you need 
it as RSP level only, you can just edit that handler and add whatever 
method you need. I may add a config option to be able to extend allowed 
methods in a cleaner way.
BrianH:
30-Apr-2009
I went with a web app for the database connection management and 
authentication, but now I find out I need to support stateless clients. 
So, no persistent cookies. Help?
Dockimbel:
30-Apr-2009
Brian: It shouldn't be a problem. Sessions block is hashed, so session 
access time is constant and the only impact is on memory usage.
Janko:
30-Apr-2009
I run 2 cheyenne webites (site-assistant and qwikitodo) and 2 apache 
solr servers and a bunch of rebol bots on 180MB RAM VPS for 12EUR/month.. 
and pages load in a snap (unless I add sqlite update/delete/insert 
to the pageload)
Dockimbel:
30-Apr-2009
Web-Apps Login: Is the login page always presented as first page 
if a user isn't yet logged in and tried to access an other page directly?


It depends, if you're using the AUTH keyword in the webapp config 
bloc, that's true. If AUTH is not used, you can access every webapp 
resource directly, it's up to each RSP to manage the access rights 
strategy. That's how CureCode webapp works. It uses a  common filter 
script called from 'on-page-start to control access.
Graham:
30-Apr-2009
and stunnel.
Robert:
1-May-2009
DELETE: Is it hard to add? Adding HEAD too and Cheyenne would be 
a really nice REST application sever.
Robert:
1-May-2009
I added all comments and information to the RSP Wiki page to save 
it.
Maarten:
1-May-2009
You have tp specifiy a certificate store and a server certificate 
as well. I'd LOVE to have this feature
Robert:
2-May-2009
I use Cheyenne as a reverse proxy. I think in this setup the HTTPS 
things is handled by the primary web-server, communication to the 
revers proxy is non encrypted and hence this setup should make it 
possible to use Cheyenne's RSP with HTTPS. Not elegant but it should 
do the job.
Robert:
3-May-2009
And at the moment I use VMs to distribute to other machines. So things 
can move around to different hardware.
Graham:
5-May-2009
and correct the include paths!
Robert:
5-May-2009
And, is it possible to "call" a RSP file?
Graham:
5-May-2009
You can include RSP files .. useful for dynamic headers and footers.
Robert:
6-May-2009
And bodies ;-)
Dockimbel:
6-May-2009
Cheyenne's mod-ssi currently only supports FILE and VIRTUAL directives 
(that's probably 90% of SSI usage). I've planned to add all the other 
missing directives, but it's quite low priority.
Henrik:
6-May-2009
It would be nice to store the exe where it should be and the config 
in /etc.
Robert:
6-May-2009
Doc, agree too. It's a mess. And a time-killer if you start using 
Linux. Where can I find ABC etc.
Endo:
7-May-2009
I just tried to run cheyenne as a service on my WinXP Pro, it generates 
crash log and says "cannot-open service.dll"
Endo:
7-May-2009
I used a file monitor and found the reason, it tries to load mcvcrt7.dll 
(visual c 7 runtime dll)  can't find it and gives error with "can't 
open service.dll"
Maxim:
8-May-2009
doc, what is the easiest  way to trap connections and take decisions 
based on the current context of the server?
Dockimbel:
8-May-2009
I'm not sure what you mean precisely by "to trap connections" and 
also "current context of the server"? Are you talking about hacking 
  the HTTP layer in Cheyenne?
Maxim:
8-May-2009
I need to be able to verify a connection from a client right when 
it happens.  so that I can refuse it based on some conditions and 
do some other client-internal stuff.
Dockimbel:
8-May-2009
Max, that would require writing a specific module for Cheyenne. Connections 
number can be measured by doing a : length? system/ports/wait-list 
(and subtracting worker processes local connections).
Dockimbel:
8-May-2009
Cheyenne network I/O layer (UniServe) tracks connections timestamps 
and manage timeouts automatically.
Maxim:
8-May-2009
ok and is there a document which explains easily how to create and 
link a module at that level?
Graham:
8-May-2009
and if users just let their connections timeout instead of logging 
out ....
Dockimbel:
8-May-2009
If you try that, just beware of a few things :

- don't use QUIT or you'll close Cheyenne, just send a CTRL-C to 
exit the console session.

- avoid probing things like UniServe's ports, they contains several 
circular references that, once molded, will produce huge amount of 
printed text and can hang on the server for several seconds (or minutes 
in the worst case).
Janko:
9-May-2009
If I understand right enpro is without view and enface is not.. I 
would need the one without
Dockimbel:
11-May-2009
Tested here, same error as you. The word is declared inside an object 
and is not exported in global space.
Robert:
11-May-2009
Ok. I use the workaround that I'm logged into the server and use 
a "tail -f trace.log" to see what's happening.
Maxim:
13-May-2009
in this case, I can easily keep statistics on my service, noting 
access times and concurrent connections, detecting if something is 
preventing the service from actually handling calls.
Maxim:
13-May-2009
doc, if you want I can implement the new feature and give you the 
part of the code which was tweaked?  is that usefull to you?
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
SSI from RSP: you can load it, but it won't be processed. There's 
no buitlin way to process SSI from RSP, but you can extract the processing 
code from SSI.r and load it in your RSP to do that (maybe not the 
simpliest solution...).
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
Robert, no, it shouldn't be hard I guess. Just extract the code from 
SSI.r and load it in your RSP. Btw, you can use the new WORKER-LIBS 
config options to load that code to be available for all RSP (standalone 
script or webapp).
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
About your feature request, I understand that your "on-allow-connection?" 
event would be generated just after the connection between the client 
and server is established? If it's the case, then you already have 
the "on-new-client" callback where you can decide to reject the connection 
or send back an error message if required (I often use it to reject 
connection based on IP adress access list).
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
Btw, in UniServe context, "event" and "callback" are two faces of 
the same coin. From the engine POV, it generates "events" that result 
in calling appropriate "callbacks" in service handlers.
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
I was afraid that you'll try to fit Liquid inside UniServe making 
Skynet and the Judgement Day happen earlier than expected and before 
I get the chance to see the new T4 ;-).
Dockimbel:
13-May-2009
In fact the UniServe's API is the low-level API. Cheyenne is implemented 
as a Uniserve's service (httpd) and exposes it's own higher level 
API for mods.
Graham:
13-May-2009
The issues I saw with Cheyenne were all related to IE and POST.
Dockimbel:
14-May-2009
Not yet, I'm still working on testing/fixing a few things and will 
add some minor features (like httpd.conf search path for Unix). Anyway, 
it should be out by the end of the month, I don't want to wait longer 
to release it.
Robert:
14-May-2009
All: If possible please hack all information that is useful for others 
as well into the Wiki. IMO that's the best way to build up a "documentation" 
for Cheyenne. And it frees Doc from answering the same stuff again 
and again.
Janko:
14-May-2009
Doc. I have made a testing engine that simulates all sorts of http 
requests for testing my apps in rebol ... it so so works now, so 
I have to improve it still . .. you could also use that to create 
a pack of test suits for cheyenne and each time you make bigger changes 
you just run it and see if things behaved as suspected
Robert:
14-May-2009
Graham, you mean my post? Well, I thin Cheyenne is really nice and 
we should all help to make the docs better. And Doc has setup a Wiki 
for this.
Robert:
14-May-2009
Graham, read above. And Petr, it ight be old school but this doesn't 
imply it's not useful.
Graham:
14-May-2009
I haven't used SSI for over a decade ... and my recollection is that 
you can do all of that stuff in RSP.
Maxim:
15-May-2009
doc, I really need your help.  I've tried quite a few things, and 
cheyenne is starting to behave more like a "chienne" than I would 
like.  ;-)


its funny cause I am trying to prevent cheyenne from doing its magic, 
and in effect, it feels like I'm trying to tell a shaman to stop 
having visions.
Maxim:
15-May-2009
I'm almost there, but right now, when I close a connection, it effectively 
terminates cheyenne and all the task handlers    ' 8-o
Maxim:
15-May-2009
hehehe  I hope you didn't my above comment to harshly... its not 
a critique of the tool...  

let me make it clear... cheyenne is GREAT.


its what *I* am trying that is making it react strangely... but I'm 
understanding more and more as I beat it up.
Maxim:
15-May-2009
yess I have used the verbose, and it has helped me a lot  ;-)
Maxim:
15-May-2009
my current fix is less than elegant, and most definitely will trip 
a server under load... (wait 1  ;-)
Dockimbel:
15-May-2009
Not sure what you're trying to do, but, you shouldn't need to lost 
time of low level async stuff. UniServe is meant to offer a complete 
client and server API that should save you from working on low level 
stuff (unless what you're trying to do is not supported by UniServe's 
API).
Maxim:
15-May-2009
no, what is happening is that task-handlers hang (for known and uniserve-independent 
reasons) so I can't rely on the normal uniserve system.


I must catch further connections as soon as possible, since they 
have to report errors without triggering the installed mods.  going 
through the different levels of apis, really complicates this handling, 
which now, basically is all done within the on-accept awake func 
of uniserve.


based on your note about the async I/O above, I think I'll add an 
extension to on-data to handle the specific case where that specific 
connection was refused, waiting for the error report to finish and 
I'm all set.
Dockimbel:
15-May-2009
That means that the outgoing buffer is not yet empty and that the 
write-io would block in that case (but that case is not allowed in 
async mode, so an error (code 517) is raised, allowing you to escaped 
and wait the next call to awake to retry a new write operation.
Maxim:
15-May-2009
and what If I don't add 'write to the port/async-modes.  will write-io 
then be blocking?
Maxim:
15-May-2009
unless I do a write-io and catch the 517 error... that would be an 
ugly way to poll the system, until it stops raising an error... hehehe
Maxim:
15-May-2009
in the async port specs, there is question of 3 args for the callbacks... 
how is that uniserve only uses the port parameter... is this because 
the port enters async mode after its been opened normally?


cause I remember building an async-port enabled application and it 
does have a write-done action.
Janko:
16-May-2009
I am porting an app to the latest cheyenne, I tried -vv and -vvv 
and uncommented the debug option in cfg file but I can't make output 
+ error  -- in case of error - show up in the browser. I saw trace.log 
and chey-pid*.log but that doesn't help me debug current case. Is 
there a way to show in browser while developing?
Janko:
16-May-2009
the current problem is that something is undefined which suggests 
that it doesn't load some of my library files. I did this in   on-page-start 
before (during development - I intended to move it to on-application-start 
when it's in full production mode). First thought is that that function 
doesn't execute so I put print "zzzzzz" into it and look the output, 
but I am unable to see the output before error hapened with my current 
knowledge now as browser always shows the "Sorry this page cannot 
be displayed" page and the log files don't hold that string either. 
(I tried adding print "xxxxx" above function that causes error too 
so I know it get's executed and I couldn't  find the string in any 
output or log file
Janko:
16-May-2009
Hi Doc. I am "porting" to 0.9.19 , the main thing that was causing 
causing the confusion since I didn't yet fully get it  was that "do" 
inside one of  another file that was "do-ed" didn't seem to use path 
relative to the that file but to web-app and before that wirtualroot 
property wasn't correct, I added the folder below root path.. now 
it works, and debug makes the whole output visible so I made it work 
better also.
Janko:
16-May-2009
I will survive if I have to be in debug mode all the time :) I thought 
it will add some output to ajax responses too and make them unworkable 
but you seem to thought of this :)
Janko:
16-May-2009
ok, thanks a lot ... one day soon I will buy rebol so I can do little 
hacks and "recompile" myself , so I won't need to bug you for smaller 
stuff
Janko:
16-May-2009
just one detail idea for improvement .. when you intercept redirection 
in debug mode you can use javascript to set focus on the link to 
continue already so developer just presses space or enter and it 
continues. No need to leave keyboard for mouse or to press tab tab 
tab .. enter :)  
document.getElementById('java2s').focus()
Janko:
16-May-2009
I can send you link and username password once I set it on the new 
VPS
Janko:
16-May-2009
but sounds also the most awesome stability feature :) ... I looked 
at it, I will again .. this is a simple app at the end so I can test 
it quickly 


so I won't only criticise the new debug/log functionality ... for 
having it on server it's awesome that the trace log is made so I 
can just look at it and see it there were any errors for users, etc 
.. for that endo of the deal it's great
Janko:
16-May-2009
aha, mine is reverse, no stress testing but functionality... I made 
it for webapps but with it you could also do automated testing on 
a sample of scripts and see at any point if all the features work 
.. it is very much in devel still ... I used it for testing site-assistant 
but it's more manual at this point.. I will impove it as one of my 
clients needs it for their app. I hope it will be more edible or 
usable soon, I will show it to you then.
Dockimbel:
16-May-2009
That's very interesting and inspiring work. It's close to my own 
thoughts about a web app testing framework. You're very right, the 
main target should be the webapp API, not the UI. That's why I didn't 
invest in Selenium, I don't want to update scripts every time I change 
the UI without changing features.
Dockimbel:
16-May-2009
I was thinking about making a low-level dialect allowing to simulate 
user actions in a web browser. Then use that dialect to build a higher 
level dialect (specific for each webapp) allowing to navigate inside 
a webapp, make complex actions and check the result, using a minimal 
set of keywords. I haven't wrote down, nor refined those ideas, but 
it should be able to give you (at the higher level) something like 
:  
[
	go site-assistant
	signup 
		login: "[user-:-test-:-com]"
		pass: "pass"
	check-page default-page
	add-new-website
		website: "rebol.com"
		registrar: "registrar"		
	check-result site-created "rebol.com"
	check-details website-form "rebol.com" "registrar"
	... 
]
Janko:
16-May-2009
yes, dialect based solution would be very interesting ... I was thinking 
about dialects a little too (not concrete yet) ... currently my testing 
engine is made so that it uses a proxy and it records your what you 
do via browser and then it can repeat the same and comparte the output 
(it already figures out that it needs to set different cookie and 
some basic stuff to login for example , and I have idea to make it 
scriptable for other dynamic data but I haven't come that far yet 
) . It also doesn't do any smart comparisson of the outputs, but 
more of a report for human to view for now
Janko:
16-May-2009
maybe we could join the approaches so that both use common comparisson 
methods and reporting
Robert:
16-May-2009
A bit OT but Lad and I started a test-dialect for RebGUI. You could 
send CLICK to GUI objects etc. and compare results and state, make 
screenshots of something was wrong etc.
Janko:
16-May-2009
my report is json data rebol2json and then javascript displays it 
all ,... it's all single static html file with data and javascript 
(via my jsgoo library :) )
Robert:
16-May-2009
I think I will pic-up the project in a couple of weeks again and 
push a bit forward and than it get useable.
Janko:
16-May-2009
so if your test will generate some relatively compatible data and 
if it would make sense to be presented like this we can do it
Dockimbel:
16-May-2009
Robert: I would be interested in using it if it works with VID and 
also support keyboard simulation (especially VID hotkeys).
Janko:
16-May-2009
Robert what you describe even if for GUI app sounds somewhat similar 
too.. I also take screenshots for example , and I also need some 
methods to chech and compare the state of app , that is still totally 
missing (and many other things)
Maxim:
16-May-2009
<SNAP!> and doc cracks the whip !!
Maxim:
18-May-2009
I was doing a search on cheyenne the other day and came accross this. 
 Is she a relative of yours doc?   ;-)
Maxim:
18-May-2009
hi doc, I'm trying to get cheyenne working on my new debian VPS. 
 so far I was able to get x11 working (thanks to henrik)  and its 
now happy about that (its not complaining about X11 anymore).

but its now complaining about libstdc++.so.5
Maxim:
18-May-2009
ok cheyenne is working... sorry about being so jumpy... I did some 
googling and am now starting to understand some of the deeper linux 
administration concepts.
Maxim:
18-May-2009
yess.... a glorious cheyenne built 404 page not found in my browser 
using firefox and my new VPS with shiny 6 letter domain name  :-)
Dockimbel:
18-May-2009
Cheyenne Kimball: I often stumbled upon her fan pages searching for 
cheyenne keyword, pretty and talented woman.
Maxim:
19-May-2009
doc, trying to understand the mod  'WORDS  dialect...   I am reading 
its parser, and I still don't get what the 'IN token does.  or what 
options I can use, or even why its needed.

can you give me a few pointers on how and why it should be used?
Maxim:
19-May-2009
Q2:  within the mod, requests have a locals value of none, does any 
of the uniserve/cheyenne internals touch this or can I use this at 
will within any module, creating an object and appending/changing 
 attributes as needed?
Robert:
20-May-2009
For this I see several options:

1. Somehow load this file as an RSP file and have it processed.

2. Somehow load this file as a SHTML file and have it processed as 
SSI file.

3. Add some marks and inser the stuff on the fly before delivering 
it.
Robert:
20-May-2009
I use RapidWeaver to generate some files. And I need to inject HTML 
in one of these generated files. Hence options 1 to 3. The RSP is 
not generating the whole answer page.
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