AltME groups: search

Wait a minute, before the upgrade, I did a *hardware* upgrade, replacing 
the motherboard and 32-bit cpu for a 64-bit one. This is when 'eth0' 
changed to 'eth1' and I had to muck about to fix it.  <--- This is 
probably related to the network problems.
(So much happened since then, I keep forgetting about this.)
My solution is probably to do a fresh 64-bit install.

Also, are you using wireless networking? I have a machine running 
Hardy and ended up needing ndiswrapper to get wireless working well. 
The following instructions worked for me: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=766560

Is there any description out there, which describes how to add missing 
libraries to Linux, when you want to run Rebview? My friend is running 
some small linux distro, and can't start View, so he asked me to 
help him to get it running ....

and libname is something you must guess ;-)

ldd    will list dependencies for any object or binary.
Tracking which package (as Robert mentions can be a pain, but)

after  apt-get install apt-file   and  apt-file update   it gets 
easier.

And you can search with: apt-cache search <lib name fragment> to 
see what the packagename might be. Or use atptitude and press / to 
search and than N for next hit. Than + to install.

otherwise, you can use the virtusertable file to control what happens 
on incoming mail. you can send to a local user, forward to another 
address, run a command, and so on. (eg. you could call rebol, filter 
with your spam filter, then SEND to gmail, or whatever)

screen may not be installed by default.  And I think it may be best 
described as a multiple process enabled session multiplexor disguised 
as a teminal program

Another option is dtach, which allows you to detach from and reattach 
to a terminal session even if you completely disconnect from the 
machine in the interim.

btiffin, Are you saying you do not believe the e-mail? I find it 
hard believe the pro-microsoft stuff but the ignorance of Linux I 
do not doubt. I taught HS in NYC for 6 years and most teachers were 
clueless of computers in general.

Who has got better Linux support - AMD or NVidia? I am looking for 
MB with embedded gfx chipset, being able to utilise FullHD, so it 
has contain H.264, VC-1 hw codecs, and Linux must be able to support 
it ...

I set up a system with AMD 780 chipset a month ago and put Ubuntu 
on it. Installed Ati drivers and it works :)
Movies, 3d games.... It works....
Also tried same system with nvidia 9600 and it also works...
Driver support is becoming better every day....

this is good to know. What we are looking for is HW acceleration 
of H.264 and VC-1 support.

Gabriele - I did rather extensive read on the minimal config of the 
thing, and it is like that:


- we are looking for embedded solution, we are space limited for 
our device, so no place for external gfx card either

- forget 1080p, unless you are about to use monstroze performance 
CPU, which will be power hog in a kiosk system

- so - you have to use HW, which contains codecs directly - ATI 680G 
chipset is minimum, 780 or 790 is beeter. nVidia 8200 or 9400 (Ion 
platform), VIA S3 500 family, Intell Poulsbo chipset

- with above, you don't need so much powerfull CPU, dualCore Atom 
would be able to play your video

- this one page is a good reference - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-780g-chipset,1785-3.html


We are still investigating the situation. We started our work for 
Windows, but would like to move to Linux in the long run instead. 
We want to use ffmpeg project, but we will have to see, if its playback 
somehow utilises HW acceleration, or not. We will also look into 
projects like mplayer and VLC. Another problem I read about is, that 
so called HW acceleration is not always utilised. E.g. H.264 is not 
so clearly defined as mpeg2, and hence there is already plenty of 
videos, which are in MKV container, H.264, but using some super-set 
of features, which will not be supported by HW acceleration anyway 
... so - lot's of work for us :-)

you should probably search for linux based video players and what 
they use. if it's embedded stuff, there may be good linux support, 
but don't look for that in Ubuntu :) you'll need to talk with the 
hw makers directly.

Using a cheap Gigabyte H4670 videocard ... and an Athlon dual core 
3000 ... so a slow CPU.

Still, Debian. I like that you can start very small, has a very powerful 
package manager and works really great.

Gobo, Unbuntu, Debian

So far three...


I'm going to put together a list of applcation I run regularly, and 
then we can weigh this again...

Debian;  The best development model, (ala REBOL).  Deliver when ready 
and ignore the peanut gallery shouting "it's late!"  ;)  


Off-topic; Sadly, my second favourite wiki-forum-chat-combo-thingy, 
TikiWiki, is moving toward the ever useless every 6 months release 
cycle.  Not a valid model for a volunteer workforce, imho.

I REALLY don't like Gnome.  I prefer to use Enlightenment but it 
has an extremely slow developement cycle and takes a while to get 
it configured to where it is really useful.  It has it's downsides 
but I've never found a desktop/window manager that even comes close 
to what Enlightenment does.

Pekr, you will like it, NVIDIA released new drivers with VDPAU (Video 
Decode and Presentation API for Unix) http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_180.22.html

Check this benchmark http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_vdpau&num=2

Had a power outage in town, and my red hat server had to be shut 
down uncleanly since although it was protected by a UPS, the screen 
wasn't.  On rebooting, the raid array had become critical with one 
of the drives dead.  Unfortunately the good drive had developed a 
corrupted file system as well :(

i had a read/write driver installed on windows and used it regularly 
without problems.

I'm looking for an OSX driver, but there appears to be only an ext2 
one, and it will only mount my ext3 drive as read-only.

WARNING: do this at your own risk. make sure the FS is clean, without 
errors etc., and make sure you have backups.

(btw, I wonder why the Windows and OSX drivers don't support extr3??)

Same for me. I tried MacDrive for Windows to get access to HFS+ drives. 
The problem is that XP silently initialized your drive with the result 
that OSX won't recognize it anymore but the HFS+ structure is still 
valid.


I fixed this, by using iPartition and changed the name of the drive. 
This results in the GPT being writting new and than the drive was 
OK. Lucky...

I'm not voting, btw - I don't know enough about which Linux is the 
most popular in the REBOL community, and I use Windows :(

best way to start small and I use it for all my servers.

Isn't Debian and Ubuntu support the same ?

There´s no difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu for porting REBOL 
- as long as you compare the same versions

There is a porting difference between Ubuntu and Debian, though; 
and between Ubuntu versions

I run R3-alpha A33 Linux/Fedora 2.6.18 (http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads/r30-core-a33-p421.gz) 
in a Kubuntu 8.10 CD-Live ( I think it's based on Debian ) and it 
seems to work ( I can chat )

And then, I download Rebol View 2.7.6 for Fedora (http://www.rebol.com/downloads/v276/rebview-fedx86.tar.gz) 
and it run perfect in a Kubuntu 8.10 CD-Live, better than Rebol View 
2.7.6 for Libc6, Debian (http://www.rebol.com/downloads/v276/rebview-linx86.tar.gz),for 
the last you need to install libstdc++5 and gcc-3.3-base.

I have put eeeBuntu on a LiveUSB (the base version was only about 
600 Mb ISO ) and may install that as my debian

There is also an eeeDora (Fedora) and an alternate debian (Easy Peasy 
aka Ubuntu-eee )

I'm trying to get the daytimer from xinetd running...

Not sure how . I see the daytime config file and turned of disabled 
and restarted xinetd but still can't readh it.

I did notice something strange, though - enough failed attempts at 
opening a listening port, and rebol can't open any more.  Have to 
start a clean session

Got it up and running

RobertS, I think most of us with the eee just reformat them and install 
windows xp

Graham, funny, I did the opposite, bought an eee Box, reformatted 
and installed Linux...

Gabriele, that's odd ... the linux versions are cheaper!  And i have 
quite a few spare XP licenses ...

That wasn't enough, that box needs to run a View program (and basically 
just that, though since now it's there it also runs Skype etc.). 
It was a replacement for a old (10 years old, and it was low spec 
back then) PC that literally exploded.

probably, it was the power supply. i didn't open it is there really 
was no point. the pc still works after replacing the power supply 
with one I had around, though i don't think it would last more than 
a couple months, and it's too old to be used for anything.

The makefiles won't run (because compiler versions etc. is checked) 
and deriving what to install where is not straight forward to derive 
from makefiles.

What distribution is that? Both rpm and dpkg allow you to build a 
binary package from a source package automatically.

If both machines have the same distros, you can compile on one and 
install the binary package in the other.

if you have different distros/versions it can be a bit more complicated, 
depending on dependencies and so on.

Well, in Rebol/View 2.7.6.4.2, I can paste the multiply sign (copied 
from ascii-math.r) straight into the console and it shows correctly. 
In a field, however, it shows incorrectly, eg. if I try to paste 
it in the field:
	view layout [f: field]
I get two characters,  'Ã' and a dotted box, displayed instead.

The binary information is correct, it's just not rendered correctly, 
for if back in the console I do:
	probe f/text
then I get the multiply symbol displayed correctly again.

So it looks like View face/text rendering is expecting 8-bit ascii 
of some encoding.
Probably ISO/IEC_8859-1

Yes, it will be an 8-bit single character encoding system. I believe 
on Windows, it is the system default CodePage and on Mac it is MacRoman. 


Your message shows the 'square-root' sign in AltME on a Mac and 'Capital 
A with a tilde on top: in Windows.


Perhaps you could describe the first of the two characters displayed.

Oldes, as far as I remember, it was said that X Server had to be 
started and running, not simply having shared libraries available. 
I could be wrong. I tried to see what rebol asks for using strace 
and ltrace, but they don't seem to give information when size-text 
function is evaluated. Maybe the information used by size-text is 
obtained earlier, however...

Does anybody know what must be the size of /usr/sbin/suexec with 
Apache 2.0.52 or where I could find this info ?

Actually, I have :

[[root-:-wpc3104] /]# find -name suexec -ls

7819049   20 -r-x--x---   1 root     root        18684 Mar 26 04:43 
./usr/sbin/suexec


A Web server of my client was hacked yesterday and I'm trying to 
find what could have been changed.

try the package manager, it can usually tell you what has been modified. 
if it can't or that has been hacked as well, you need another machine 
with the exact same distro/version and check the md5s.

In the past, I used Fedora. But it seems to me, that few guys here 
are using Ubuntu server, and it was even considered few month back, 
when it seemed that RT might agree to have official public BBS ....

In KDE: 
NO-BORDER seems to have no effect.

NO-TITLE does not remove the titlebar as it does on Windows, but 
instead, blanks the titlebar text and moves it into the window face 
as the usual face/text rendering.

In the wmii window manager, no-title removes the "REBOL -" title 
string, but the title bar and the border itself are still there

I just compiled window2.c from 
http://www.unix-manuals.com/tutorials/xlib/xlib.html

and it opens a window without titlebar, and can open a borderless 
window (with BORDER_WIDTH 0).

I'm not so familiar with X Windows programming, but the above example 
appears to be just making use of the X Windows system, not going 
via the window manager... (not sure).

I've got a shell/rebol script (test-get-process-id.r) which starts 
with a shebang line, then the rebol header etc. :


#!/home/anton/dev/rebol/view/rebview2.7.006.4.2 -cswq --script test-get-process_id.r
rebol [
...


what's strange is that rebol starts up in trace mode, so it outputs 
a lot of trace information to the bash shell. I'd like to suppress 
the trace mode, and it's strange that it is switched on without me 
asking for it. Anybody have any information on this?

I now seem to be able to list windows associated with a given process 
id. I've tried the konsole pid, and I get five result windows...

I don't think so. The window managers sit on top of the X Windows 
system and get it to do the basics - opening windows etc.

Well, there could be something there (I had a quick look), but I 
probably want to target the X Window core system, or, look at all 
resources allocated by a process and then see which ones are opened 
windows.

I will ask one person tomorrow whom I do regard being a guru. Not 
sure he is working with windows - he's a typical kernel and console 
guy :-)

I got reply from my other colleague who started to write video player 
upon ffmpeg. He uses SDL, and there is a parameter called - SDL_NOFRAME. 
Maybe you could look, how SDL handles it? What is more - their wrappers 
should be cross-platform, so we might find solution for more than 
one OS actually ....

Firefox has kiosk mode where window frames and titles disappear...may 
work differnetly than normal windows without titlebars..maybe simpler 
to do

SDL is something definitely worth checking out, but Rebol does not 
use SDL, it uses X windows, and I want the pointer to those windows 
opened by Rebol.

-f file
	True if file exists and is a regular file.

Probably that env var is set up by SDL, and only for a window which 
the SDL system knows about. Since rebol doesn't use SDL to open its 
windows, SDL (most likely) won't know about those windows.

But anyway, I'm heading down the DLL injection path, using LD_PRELOAD. 
I have a simple LD_PRELOAD example working, which intercepts calls 
to the time() function (and works with rebol). The next example I'll 
try will intercept X window calls.

I know that SDL can't help you to get REBOL's window handles :-) 
I just thought that we might look into how others are obtaining them, 
and then to try similar aproach for REBOL. But anyway, you surely 
will find your way thru!

Not Rebol callbacks. A DLL built using C is injected using LD_PRELOAD 
when running any executable. The executable I'm interested in is 
Rebol, of course. This injected code intercepts calls to XCreateSimpleWindow 
(which creates the X Windows window), and adds some properties to 
it, including one which stores the process id of the application 
opening the window. This means that each X window can be ensured 
to have the process id of the application that opened it (which is 
otherwise not mandated by X). So I could do that to any program and 
it would ensure that there is a way to get the process id. I'm doing 
it to Rebol, and this means it is now possible for another DLL function 
(called from Rebol) to scan all the windows opened on the X display 
and see which one has the Rebol process id. All you need is the process 
id, and this is easy to do with a very small DLL function call.

If I was ruled by pragmatism, I would just go with this method, which 
I'm sure would work quite well. But, after my big post in the Rebol3 
group on Friday, in which I advocate modularity and avoidance of 
namespace pollution, I can hardly just be happy using an environment 
variable, despite the relative simplicity of doing so. I will investigate 
some other methods which also intrigue me...

Another method: I can use load/library to access the LD_PRELOAD library 
and share information via static variables.

But I think I caught up to where RT left off on the hunt to implement 
NO-TITLE and NO-BORDER. It looks like there is no window manager 
agnostic way of separately specifying these window decorations. I 
will investigate some more, though. I have managed to open a window 
with no title and no border, but it doesn't respond to events at 
all, because this was achieved by basically telling the window manager 
not to  manage the window at all when X is opening it.

Could be useful for full-screen games/presentors and so on, but requires 
more code to handle events I think. Anyway, that wasn't really the 
goal; to implement NO-TITLE and NO-BORDER, not NO-TITLE-AND-NO-BORDER(-AND-NO-EVENTS...).

amacleod: Hmm.. what was the goal? Did you want to use NO-TITLE and 
NO-BORDER together?

I have a program I would like to run on a netbook (Small screen 800x480) 
so I do not want to lose any realestate to title bar...
(I know it can come with XP but for another $50)

Also, I like the idea of the application "taking over" the netbook 
as if this device and the App are one.

It's for use by non-techies so as little interaction with linux as 
possible is desired...

I've just opened a little Rebol window without title bar or border, 
but it can be moved around and handles events as a normal window 
does (eg. view layout [button area] works).

On KDE here, I can press and hold Alt key, then left-click drag a 
window with the mouse.

So you can build your own title-bar and make it behave like a normal 
title bar.

If you remove main/offset, then you get this:

	main/offset: - pos + e/offset show main

and this works properly in Linux.

In two weeks I am going to set-up new Linux server finally. I have 
got the HW - SuperMicro board. I will install Mikrotik RouterOS on 
it, and it allows me to serve as a FW/router, and iside of it I want 
to install Ubuntu server in XEN

So I just installed glorious UBUNTU Server edition. Installation 
went OK, but after 15 minutes of usege, I have big WTF? Are those 
ppl crazy? This is total piece of crap. You can't have X-Windows 
easily running there. There is NO visual administrative tool intalled 
by default. No webmin, but Ebox. At least Docs state how to install/run 
Ebox. It does NOT work, it is missing some packages. I am also left 
with my user name, and the SUDO. But - can you do everything by SUDO? 
How do I find out my real root password? I am really not an experienced 
Linux user, but I could manage that stuff with old Fedora in 2004. 
Why Ubuntu gets so much attention?

I will try other distributions - most probably CentOS, SuseLinux 
and maybe even Fedora once again ...

Hardy is the LTS release, though, and works

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/eBox- this page says Gutsy version 
has bugs, Hardy version is stable, and Intrepid version can't be 
installed

OK, so you are saying that I need to use some older Ubuntu version? 
They officially release 8.10 version and some main packages don't 
even work? I thought that by going Ubuntu I would be more safe from 
such a hassle. I probably need to go with LTS version then?

apt-get upgrade

 or "aptitude upgrade" for just the updates.. (I've been using apt-get 
 instead of aptitude, and they don't interact well when it comes time 
 to remove packages)

I now have several entries in Grub to boot different Kernel versions. 
Can someone explain to me how this works with all the rest of the 
applications and libraries?


I can imagine that you just use a different boot image to get a different 
kernel. But how does Linux handle all the "kernel dependent" libraries?

But I have 2.18 and 2.26 Versions. Which IMO are quite different.

Robert, no, you have 2.6.18 and 2.6.26. The same libc will work on 
both.

the only case when i had problems upgrading a kernel was when i was 
on Gentoo, and the new kernel would use different names for my hd 
partitions (switched from /dev/hdX to /dev/sdX), which meant that 
I had to fix the /etc/fstab for it to boot. these things don't happen 
on normal distributions, and even on Gentoo I could have avoided 
it if I paid attention I guess.

Gab, ah, sorry I didn't mean going from 2.6.a to 2.6.b

I mean having 2.4.x and 2.6.y on one system.

2.4 / 2.6 - I don't know if anything special is needed to do that. 
you can very likely compile both kernels in order to make them compatible 
with each other, and it's also possible to handle this in the userland.

It's not, but it looks like using dist-upgrade on Debian ADDs a new 
kernel and release without removing the old kernel (and maybe old 
apps). At least you get a new entry in Grub.

Thankyou Pekr and Cyphre, it's useful.

Last two weeks I installed two times Ubuntu server, made webmin working 
instead of ebox, which is crap, installed horde, etc., but I have 
to note, that I really thought, that after all those years, Linux 
gurus got educated, and was successfull in hiding linux architecture 
complexity from the eyes of mortal man. I have to say, that the system 
is still the same idiotic Linux underneath. This is really rudiculous 
- we are living in 2009, and instead of getting things done easily, 
you have to follow stupid instructions of where to edit something, 
to get some stuff running.

hi, has anyone had this problem before? I got to a new VPS .. I downloaded 
rebol and cheyenne and I can't run them ... 

- when they weren't chmod +x  if I did ./rebol ./cheyenne I get  
Permission denied
- once I make them executable I get No such file or directory .. 


If I type ls they are there in both  cases, I also copied them into 
bin and tried to run them there but same thing, I could run neighbour 
files in bin like ./readlink but not ./rebol and by the looks of 
ls -l they had the same rights/owner everything .. I also copied 
and renamed both files and the same .. any ideas how this can happen 
.. file is there

64 bit uses more memory, and memory is usually the most significant 
constraint on a VPS.

I will try getting 32 bits, if it won't be possible I will google 
for hack ..


Doc : I tried ldd and it said >> not a dynamic executable  (so I 
guess that isn't the problem)

I was reminded that this could be the probem by my customer, he had 
some rebol things on his vps-s and used 64 bits and said he had similar 
problem , then his admin solved it somehow :) but I prefer 32bit 
for reasons you said (RAM)