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I like the guys that came with brand new idea or point of view and 
shoot the ant house to see all the ants running around  ^^

Since i have safari opera and firefox on my computer  i can tell 
you the chrome is the most acurate it starts immediatly  you don't 
have those 20 seconds of loading  and loading  a daily motion page 
takes you 1 seconde

FF or opera inherits most of their engines from  the nestcape design 
elaborated on early 90s when the web was mostly some images and lot 
of text

same page with chrome -> 32Mo with firefox 72Mo. SHAME you can trash 
it to the can and those lazy un imaginative developers too

Chrome doesn't have enough controls over content yet......Open half 
a dozen random windows from commercial sites, and you may have multiple 
Flash ads playing in them all....That'll eat up most of  your cpu 
power just running adverts in the background.
Firefox of course has the NoFlash and AdBlock addons.

other thing which denerves me a bit is - activity indicator - there 
is no stable bottom bar. And once your page is loading, there is 
message about it popping up and down at the bottom left ....

i think you really should get your hand on a firefox1.0 and compare 
it with chrome 1.0

chrome is perfect and yumy

I would prefer that Chrome use the system theme settings for the 
color of its title bar and tabs. I hate blue in my UI (here too).

I have, and was surprised at how well they have taken advantage of 
the comic book communication style. I hope this kind of thing catches 
on.

Chrome will have more traction with normal people. FF is still geek 
driven. In that regard, IE has more to worry about. FF has to worry 
if Chrome becomes better for geeks, e.g. dev, debug, extend. 


Both could benefit from its source and how they all decide to cooperate. 
If they decide to compete with Google, it will make a lot more work 
for them, and how they spin things will be important.

The two things that FF does poorly for me are memory over time use 
and stability.

If Chrome is lighter on memory, stable, and secure, I'll be there 
in a heartbeat.

I just read some comments about Chrome, and ppl claim that new JS 
engine is in fact not interpreter or byte code, but that it translates 
to native code?

You could make a dialect that could compile to native code that would 
superficially resemble REBOL, and most non-guru REBOL code would 
likely work in that dialect. It might not be as much faster as you 
think though - a lot of REBOL is native code already (natives).

If you read the whole comic you would realize that what they are 
proposing are relatively small but significant tweaks to what is 
out there already. Most of their code is derived from Firefox and 
Webkit - only the JavaScript VM is new, though its language is not. 
The process model has already been developed independantly by Microsoft 
for IE8. The real value this all provides is the source - the other 
OS browsers will be able to catch up with IE8 quite quickly with 
this source.

I can write REBOL code that is faster than the equivalent code in 
Java, and vice-versa. Every language has its strengths.

If your REBOL code is not very fast, it may be algorithmic. My REBOL 
code is rather fast, though that is because I hand-optimize and don't 
use REBOL where it isn't appropriate. I don't generally use Java 
because it is never appropriate for my work, but if it were I might 
use it. I don't use REBOL to write C code.

Doc, I have a lot of trouble coming up with a short example in Java 
- Java isn't really useful for that kind of thing. Almost any one-line 
REBOL program would be faster than the equivalent Java program. The 
REBOL interpreter is slower than JIT'ed Java code, after you factor 
out the JIT overhead. REBOL is more than DO though - it has a lot 
of high-level operations that are quite useful and fast. If I try 
to write code in REBOL using Java-style algorithms it will be slow. 
If I try to write Java code using REBOL-style techniques, I would 
have to reimplement most of REBOL first, and it would be slower.

There is no such thing as a fair comparison between Java and REBOL 
- the closest would be to show how a program written to take advantage 
of one language's strengths would be wors when translated to the 
language of the other, and then vice-versa.

I wasn't talking about relative strengths of languages but pure execution 
performances. I know how to implement fast algorithms in C, Java 
and REBOL. In REBOL, you can only find some "tricks" that will make 
 your code faster, but there's no intrinsic feature of REBOL language 
that could change the complexity of an optimized algorithm (that 
kind of case would fall in my "fair comparison" view).

My code wouldn't compile though. It is fast as-is, and I would rewrite 
it if REBOL were compiled to be fast then.

REBOL has nice and clean abstractions that make writing code much 
easier and much more pleasant, IMHO, it fails to become a general 
programming language mainly because of lack of performances. As long 
as you deal with a lot of I/O (like in a Cheyenne) or waiting for 
user event (like in VID/View), that's not a big showstopper, but 
when you need to process big amounts of data in memory, you have 
to rely on another language to do the job in acceptable times.

Runtime code generation can reduce size of source code and make it 
more elegant, but I didn't saw yet, in my own code, any benefit on 
algorithm complexity (the big O notation).

Very little math, much parsing and structure manipulation.

I've only hit a couple things where REBOL isn't fast enough. Animation 
(obviously), and longest-common-subsequence algorithm (Rebcode version 
was much faster, but still not fast). And if I could save JPGs natively 
from REBOL, I could eliminate one of my largest external dependencies 
(ImageMagick).

Gregg: as an old VB coder (still using it these days), I agree. But 
there's lot of applications you just can write in a slow executing 
language, and I *really* would like to only code in REBOL.

Brian, you're a good advocate for Carl's strategy, but Rebcode already 
exists without all that dependency chain and it's even usable, it's 
just a pity it didn't make it in 2.7.6 and Encap.

Yes, the compilable dialect would have different semantics than the 
DO dialect but could look superficially the same, and execute a lot 
of the same code (not mine, of course). We have done this before 
in the R1 to R2 transition when we switched from a Scheme-like engine 
to a Forth-like engine without changing the syntax (except for getting 
rid of ELSE). I already have some ideas about how to do this - it's 
on my to-do list.

I am well aware of how the old rebcode worked - I was the main beta 
tester. It had the same dependencies then as well, though the execution 
engine being internal made the chain a little different. It was also 
unstable, buggy and insecure.

Right. Functions are values in REBOL, and how they are interpreted 
(or compiled) depends on their datatype.

There would be 2 things you would have to give up in a compilable 
dialect of REBOL, if you want it to be worth it:

- Code blocks that aren't statically determinable at function creation 
time (unlike your example above, which could be partially evaluated)

- Functions that could be edited in place, or hot-patched (already 
gone in R3)

If you don't give these up you would be adding compilation overhead. 
Admittedly, Java isn't the right language to emulate here - Forth 
or other stack languages would be better, as they are closer to the 
REBOL execution model and compiled Forth can be drastically faster 
than the best Java code.

That's why I mentioned "other stack languages". There has been a 
lot of research in that camp too - they just name their languages 
other names than Forth. I think that some of the research in type-inferenced 
stack languages will eventually make Java and .NET faster too.

Remember, the JVM and CLR are both stack engnes.

Yup (I've already given this some thought). Hand-optimized code may 
have to be reoptimized though, and this includes some of the optimizations 
that I made to some of the mezzanine functions. You would speed things 
up drastically by using explicit type checking or get-words to filter 
out theoretical function value evaluation.

what i like in the  comic is how they present the deferent technologies 
aspect how they are deal to day what is the problem and then what 
is the solution apported by the new point of view introdiced into 
chrome

for example java script -> slow because it's part of the asynchronous 
rendering system and because the javascript systeme reads over and 
over the same code to execute it

solution introduced in chrome javascript runs in a new VM  that read 
the code once transform it into hiden object and then into natural 
code wich is runed again and again  and the VM  is a speparated process 
to focus the resources where they are needed

for me that work i set  chrome as default webbrowser and when i use 
the WWW key on my keyboard that calls chrome

Does your start menu have a reference to your default browser? If 
so and it is Firefox, then Chrome is missing something.

haha, just read comics - it is kind of cool way to explain some features 
... except the fact, how they turned inability to have properly threaded 
app into advantage talking about processes. While they claim single 
process (and address space) app will not release memory properly 
on one hand, on the other hand they mention overhead of data copy 
needed for their task based aproach, and somehow mysteriously they 
claim that "overtime it means less memory bloat"

This is why I have repeatedly requested details about REBOL's recycle 
algorithm. With the wrong algorithm, REBOL could be subject to the 
same problems the comic discusses, like delays and fragmentation.

Guys, nice chat but can we move to group performance or something 
like this? I like TechNews because it's just about that and no noise...

Head over to FreshMeat now if you wanna see Cheyenne, QM and R/S

Shall I be nasty and say http://google.com? :-)

what exactly are you using cheyenne, qm and r/s for ?

And you're supplying REBOL instead?

Just when you thought it was dead, and buried, and rotting....

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/amigaos41-ars.ars

Adobe Talks Open Source, Innovation and the Future of Flash

http://www.eweek.com/index2.php?option=content&task=view&id=49706&pop=1&hide_ads=1&page=0&hide_js=1

It's said that the Flash Player will not be opensource and I understand 
why.

Interesting is, that Adobe is working with the Chrome team and that 
MS is not is not a competitor.

OO3 is very cool. Trying to get rid of Word and XLS.

Algorithmic changes could help in theory, but modern office apps 
just do a lot of work, and it takes them time to do so.

Reichart, the EEE is great, isn't it? My wife teaches, and she uses 
it for short presentations and writing reports during the breaks. 
I think it saves her an hour a day - she wouldn't have used a laptop 
any bigger (and this one is pink...lol). I always joke she is the 
most Linux-savvy user in the house!

Wasn't it a bit sluggish?
 Yes, but it is a tinny computer for $300 (the price of a PDA).


It works well enough for travel.  My wife is the one using it, but 
I played with it  a bit.


I live on a laptop that is a bit larger (not much though) The Fujitsu 
P8020, and is Almost 10x the price.

... now my question is - where is my R3, and where are our planned 
View kernel advancements? Cyphre did not touch View kernel for more 
than one year  ....

We launched Silverlight just over a year ago, and already one in 
four consumers worldwide has access to a computer with Silverlight 
already installed,
 - that is how fast competition is .....

To actually aim higher, we should have at least something in our 
hands. And we will not have anything useable for at least one another 
year ....

Carl should restate the strategy. Divide project to 3.0, 3.1 and 
3.2 goals! I would postpone tasks, modules, components for 3.1, and 
release 3.0 with new VID for immediate use with most apparent bugs 
being fixed ...

I don't know the timezone issues  I found out at 10pm EDT (and don't 
really care ... but hey, seems like news) ... CodeWeavers is offering 
free Crossover downloads all day Tuesday October 28th.

Key free downloads.   The site is probably swamped.

I have Asus EEE901 at work for prototyping, and it is normal x86, 
so everything runs on it. I would not want to use smaller device, 
I need full keyboard :-)

We should install supporting tools (forum, some CVS) and get things 
rolling much faster ...

Python3 out today at http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/

Jython is finally nearing a 2.5 release ( Python 2.6 beat 3000 out 
the dorr .. )

And IronPython?  It has developed a codecomplex over at http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython
 with no sign of change in months

I like the harmonica.  I mean that is the ultimate cool thing to 
do with your phone during a company meeting.  Can get everyone to 
whip them out and have a good ole country jamborie.

Just found this: New version of vector graphics API adds accelerated 
text and Adobe Flash format rendering; Full conformance tests and 
open source implementation also available

http://www.khronos.org/news/press/releases/openvg_1.1_specification_publicly_released_by_khronos/

If you are wondering what is "tech" about this post, well, I guess 
it is pretty damned impressive to me the depth, the planning, and 
the execution of these kids (the boy specifically).  We should keep 
an eye on this kid, he will rule something one day.

And it is a relaly cute story...

and C is the language of the year.

It would be interesting to know, who was voting? And by what measures?

New Palm to compete with Android? http://i.gizmodo.com/5126516/palm-pre-first-look-and-details

And I like how today's Windows 7 wikipedia page starts with:
 www.fedoraproject.org

  Fedora is an RPM-based, general purpose operating system built on 
  top of the Linux kernel, developed by the community-supported Fedora 
  Project and sponsored by Red Hat. Fedora's mission statement is: 
  "Fedora is about the rapid progress of Free and Open Source software."


:)  Well, kinda ... GNU/Linux fans lowering themselves to the FUD 
tactics of the "other team".  Makes the good guys look bad too.


And on a refresh; fixed already.  Seems interested parties have until 
Jan 24th to snag an early beta copy from the MS servers.

Adaptive A.I. Inc. launches commercial AGI-based virtual agent for 
call centers

Playa del Rey, California
January 12, 2009


Adaptive A.I. Inc. (a2i2) today released its first commercial product 
based on its artificial general intelligence (AGI) technology under 
development since 2001. It is a virtual call center operator that 
promises to propel speech-based interactive voice response (IVR) 
systems to much higher levels of performance.


Known as the SmartAction™ IVR System, it being sold and supported 
by a2i2’s recently formed commercial subsidiary, the Smart Action 
Company LLC.


The system is based on a2i2’s LiveAGI™ engine. Its integrated language 
processing, reasoning, memory, and knowledge-base capabilities allow 
it to hold smart, productive conversations. The LiveAGI brain manages 
conversation flow, meta-cognitive state (such as mood, degree of 
certainty and surprise), and determines when clarification or live-agent 
assistance is needed. Its built-in intelligence also allows the system 
to be taught new skills and knowledge, instead of these having to 
be custom programmed. Existing skills include email, as well as web 
and database interaction.


To achieve beyond state-of-the-art voice interaction, top of the 
line speech recognition technology is tightly integrated with the 
AGI brain to provide bi-directional benefits: The speech engine is 
dynamically tuned to current conversation context, while the cognitive 
engine analyzes multiple speech hypotheses for the most likely meaning 
and resolves ambiguities.


These innovations combine to provide solutions that significantly 
reduce the number of routine – and frequently boring and poorly handled 
-- calls taken by human agents while improving customer service levels. 
In addition to providing expected IVR capabilities such as 24/7 availability, 
consistent service quality, and the capacity to handle surges in 
call traffic, the SmartAction IVR System offers personalized responses 
by remembering the caller’s preferences, previous calls and other 
relevant data. Applied over multiple calls, callers don’t have to 
answer the same questions every time they call. If a call is interrupted, 
the system can call the customer back and pick up the conversation 
where it left off.


The company offers the SmartAction IVR System both as a hosted service 
and an in-house hardware-software turnkey solution. A web-based chat 
version is also available.


The ultimate purpose of a2i2’s LiveAGI Brain is to enable a major 
transformation of human-computer interfaces for a broad range of 
applications, such as websites, search engines, console and online 
games, virtual worlds, enterprise software, and consumer products. 
The company is currently researching and developing these applications, 
and under certain conditions will consider creating commercial versions 
in the near term.

About Adaptive AI, Inc.


Adaptive A.I. Inc. was founded in 2001 with the mission of researching, 
developing and commercializing far-reaching inventions in artificial 
general intelligence. Its founder, Peter Voss, has an accomplished 
career as an entrepreneur, inventor, engineer and scientist. His 
contributions to artificial general intelligence cover the fields 
of cognitive science, philosophy and theory of knowledge, psychology, 
intelligence and learning theory, and computer science.

www.adaptiveai.com    www.SmartAction.com

Peter got back to me...they want to, but it takes a lot of time to 
teach the system (just like it takes time to teach a human to NOT 
MAKE MISTAKES).
They are going go with client testimonials first.

I suggested they build their own FAQ, and they might later.

(I think I have a picture of Peter and myself in togas...which should 
not be held against him....  Everything is held against me...so I 
won't even defend myself).

I do believe its possible, i know of two NLP engines which are able 
to "understand" text.


  one is able to tell you that you are not using the proper style for 
  your text!   like if an expression is not in the proper context.

  another is able to identify specific people within a corpus of data, 
  and differenciate people who even have the same (first or last) name. 
   This one will even understand if you are talking about the same 
  person by job title... obama and president are the same.

so I can see that if you remove part of the understanding (to allow 
to create its own categories of things) and instead build an associative 
system of context, it can become quite adept IMHO at making smart 
deductions.

no offense to anyone just my oppinion.. but I don't really like these 
words together: "expansion of human intelligence, longevity, and 
morality.. life extension"

The 30th alpha build of the 3rd edition of REBOL was released to 
a larger team of developers and testers on 12-Jan-2009

Clowder;   and Kaj, point a laser beam onto the pavement of an inner 
city parking lot near a dumpster   the clowder will form in short 
order.  :)

I had this urge to be a smart ass and write "Lemmings..."

Kaj, yes they do...they are called a Pride, and they work together 
to take down prey.

I would say you a group fo REBOLLers is a "Force"

There already is open music.  And glad to see that Youtube is addressing 
McCain's criticism's FINALLY.

Again the music industry finds another way to keep lawyers employed. 
:-) It just means bands and labels who give permission are the tracks 
we will here & buy. So the restrictive ones miss out on being widely 
promoted. Similar thing happened here when music industry tried to 
get paid to play their promo-videos on tv

If the artist got their money I'd be happy, the issue for me is most 
of it is going up the noses of the lawyers and pr people. At least 
itunes & emusic make it easy for independant bands to get distribution 
and money now.

I once saw an interview with Allannah Myles.  When her album Allanna 
Myles hit number 1 and Black Velvet was on every radio, she was worried 
she couldn't pay rent.  She still owed 1.5 million on her "contract" 
and the label had already pocketed 5 million.   We should always 
let sharks eat young keen artists.  It's a fantastic system.  Like 
the lottery.  Sure, someone gets a million dollars every week.  A

hmm, altme is tweaking my ^S setting ... sorry.


And society spends far more for the privilege.  We should continue 
to support these systems whole heartedly.  It's always great to give 
legal backing to the few that take advantage of the naive.  Beautiful 
system, that should never be questioned, only revered and backed 
up with gun power and threats of jail.

Artists will almost always choose to receive the free promotion. 
 It's the publishers and labels who don

Sounds like Myles didn't have a lawyer and just blindly signed a 
contract.

And that's not just the little guys who are trying to make it.  I 
have several close friends who've sold tens of millions of albums 
who feel the same way without reservation.

NickA, you need to tell the Record Labels this then for obviously 
they didn't know this and didn't do any research.  You sound like 
you got it all figured out.

I'm in the industry, and have been for 22 years.  The reason the 
record companies don

Why do these musicians get awards at shows and thank their label?

Anyone can produce a great sounding album on their home computer 
now.  And if they can get famous without the record company support, 
they don

Most who are big stars now, and up till now.

The record company's industry has been torn apart, and anyone who 
has a vested interest in their business does not want to see this 
happen.

They used to spend hundreds of thousands on making albums, and then 
millions on promoting and making a new star famous.

Quite frankly I think people are just whiners and complainers and 
against the establishment.

No , it's not whining, and it's nothing like that industry

That is actually ok.  I didn't intend to get into a real discusson 
on this issue and I have resigned myself from the politics channels.

I do not see a mention of renol on the website. And the products 
do not seem like something for which rebol would be used.

Actually it is, FJouen clamed it himself, and he has showed  us on 
the french BBS some work related to app clients dealing with external 
sensors.