AltME groups: search

Since my post is long (and about Qtask, I will move it to the Qtask 
group).

http://www.humanized.com/enso/words/<--- This seems like a good 
starting point for a full REBOL desktop. Remove Windows and base 
the input system directly on that. Nice and quick.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp


FF is at 37.2%..........yeah baby...and so man said IE would have 
a death grip...

IE is imo much less successfull. It is just point of view you look 
at it - When you start at nearly 100% market, and you are mostly 
arrogant monopolist, then we should thank to Mozilla foundation, 
because what they gained is imo significant achievement - very significant, 
imo.

The second factor is - IE's percentage is so high just becaues of 
one factor - it is preinstalled and that userbase does not really 
care - mostly corporations, etc. There was once time, when companies 
heavily used IE for intranets and used special features. IMO nowadays 
the situation is better - you can build good intranet solution using 
other browsers too.

I couldn't find a link that wasn't plastered with on-line newspaper 
ads, but

New findings by the mission to Titan, reported on Wednesday by the 
European Space Agency (ESA), say Saturn's orange moon has hundreds 
of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural 
gas reserves on Earth.


Google Saturn Moon Oil for more deets.   YeeHaw!  I think the space 
race is on.  And all we have to do is run a 1,200,000,000 km pipeline 
and we can all drive Hummers and have diesel powered air conditioners. 
 It's gonna be sweet.

Petr, you've never heard of VB? :-) QuickBASIC, under DOS, had an 
IDE back in 1985. PowerBASIC (used to be TurboBASIC from Borland) 
is still around and has inline asm and a killer compiler. GFA BASIC 
had matrix math built in, and TrueBASIC had some very cool libraries, 
like 3D graphing, as part of the system. After VB there have been 
a lot of "BASIC-like" lanugaguges, but some of them aren't really 
BASIC.

Very  good and cheap for upconverting regular DVDs.

I see that UNICON ( the language ) if yet to move to UNICODE in spite 
of its strong string handling and back-tracking features (co-routines, 
co-expressions)

There are remarkable similarities to REBOL ( ignoring its use of 
keywords such as &pos )
A recent variant is converge from Lawrence Tratt

Of course there is a big ISP named UNICON and someone has a DSL named 
UNICON

There is supposed to be a MAC version of ICON called PRO ICON ... 
I couldn't find it

My latest urban myth: that the name REBOL evolved from IDOL, the 
ICON pre-processor ( SNOBOL, ICON, IDOL, REBOL )

All good coders should know of Dr. Ralph and of "farberisms"  ;)

I came to REBOL from Icon also. Icon lacked communications abilities, 
and was not being developed.  It was great for working with strings, 
however.

In a Swedish blog someone wrote a comment that the robot looked like 
two drunk guys carrying a sofa :P Then about half the people were 
worried that Iran/Iraq would copy it and put guns on it, and the 
other half were worried that USA would but guns on it. Either way 
it would probably only bring death, misery and oppression :)

it looks like they need to work on the engine. if you are at war 
in the desert, and you hear the noise of a chainsaw in the distance, 
time to bring out the guns.

Gee; and posted before April 1.   Vista not gaining; surprise surprise. 
 Can we finally start to shrink a monopoly?

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_systems/windows_a_monopoly_shakes.html

it would be so wonderful if they would just start from scratch with 
a new OS. just from scratch. screw compatibility. it will be a pain 
for a few years, but it will do them and us good in the end. I know 
they can do that.

Or ...  start using an OS that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and 
where the primary concern is better software (or maybe, simple "Hey 
look what I wrote ... I'm smart"), not lock in.  :)

I still hold MS directly responsible for the early demise of OS/2. 
  Well, that and Homer Simpson's Compuglobalhypermeganet

I love Vista  and think it gets a bum rap.

I guess it burned me too many times in the less than 10 times I've 
used it.  Note;  I only diss MS due to the predatory practises of 
"suffer no other software to live".  That is just bad for everyone. 
 MS included - how can they beg, borrow and steal innovation if no 
one is around to innovate for them.  And take a close look; name 
me one innovation that has come out of MS.  One.  With 50,000 employees 
you'd think one or two original ideas would have escaped by now.

Virgin and Google  virgle.   Sounds pretty cool.  And sounds like 
Mars may end up being an MS free zone  :)

You....can't....tell???  Brian...Brian....Brian....dude...


We feel that ensuring the survival of the human race by helping it 
colonize a new planet is both a moral good in and of itself and also 
the most likely method of ensuring the survival of our best – okay, 
fine, only -- base of web search volume and advertising inventory,” 
Page added. “So, you know, it's, like, win-win.

Well I'm gullible; and I'm staying that way.  Innocent until proven 
guilty.  :)

Lua has a module for VisualStudio ... http://www.itrango.com/vslua/
 as does Haskell ... I can't imagine it is a help to Haskell but 
it could be good for Lua.  Then again, some people might move to 
Haskell from F# for VisualStudio....  http://www.haskell.org/visualhaskell/
   and I think I saw an APress book on F#  http://research.microsoft.com/fsharp/vsmode.aspx

For those that collect programming languages;  HoltSoft the developers 
of Turing have gone out of business.  Dr Holt has moved on.  Turing 
is in wide spread use amongst Ontario High Schools.  (Sad, my home 
province pumped out an entire generation of programmers of a dead 
training language)  Anyway, they had posted it free for non-commercial 
use  on their website, which is now shutdown.   The admin of compsci.ca 
has posted it to their forum board.  This could well be a time limited 
offer.   I don't know all the details of Turing, but this version 
was commercial and proprietary before the shutdown announcement and 
posting of the free copies.   http://compsci.ca/holtsoft/

thanks.  Was it used only in Grade 14?  My fear is that UNICON could 
become a 'collectible' ( we pronounce it as in 'honey-comb' - sweet 
and well-constructed ).  No 'but the users suck big-time" jokes, 
OK?

I'm not real sure, but some of the people on the compsci forum mention 
learning it right it grade 9, some in 10, some in 11.  Again, it 
seems to be Ontario.   Let's hope UnIcon lives to a ripe old age. 
 Turing, not so sure; it was designed for teaching but as we all 
know; you're first is hard to forget and it may take on a life of 
its own, similar to the whole Pascal field.

and so I find TXL at http://www.txl.ca/

Ch v6.0 is out.  Slower than 5.5 on my Win98 machine, but they fixed 
a few bugs, probably added others.

I still get freaked out by Ch.   Mixing shell, C and C++ at a console 
feels weird
C:/ch/> char *s = `date`
C:/ch/> s
Wed Apr 16 03:33:37 Eastern Daylight Time 2008
C:/ch/> free(s)

I'm confused, what would be an example of what would "fail" the computer?

All I can say is, if my car has an OS, and it was Windows, well....you 
all know that should not be allowed on the streets...

My assumptions are as follows:

1. the same USD can now buy less stuffs


2. weak USD has cause oil price to go up and in turn this translate 
to higher manufacturing production cost for the components.


3. The weak USD can now import less components from the manufacturing 
countries like Korea, China etc.


It is with the above logic that I said it will be tougher to achieve 
the OLPC @ US$100 goal.

I may be wrong though.

Production is in Asia and it's shipped all over the world, so it 
would be silly to tunnel that through the US

The tag price in dollars may go up, but if the rate between Asian 
currencies and the currency of the buying country stays the same, 
it would compensate it

For the security minded, there is a new startup at www.Yubico.com 
with a cool new usb wafer that generates OTP (one time passwords).

It is small, light, and cheap (currently $35.00).  But the really 
neat thing about it is it can be combined with a service like www.MashedLife.com 
which can manage all of your website accounts with a secure login. 
 With OTP, keyloggers are not effective anymore.  It seems like a 
neat idea.  You can listen to Steve Gibson review at www.twit.tv/sn141. 
 If you want just the Yubico stuff, advance the audio stream to about 
3/4 the way through at about 1:15 to skip the RSA stuff before.

Adobe are opening the FLV and SWF format.

... and another nail in the coffin for the View ....

We should start to think, how to use various situations to ours advantage 
- e.g. - R3 implemented in JavaScript? (would be slow) R3 core being 
able to use with JavaScript? R3 Core and GUI using Flash/Silverlight? 
R3/View and output generators to Flash/Silverlight/Web (httml, css, 
js)?

Petr re nails;  I don't think so ... maybe, but not in the grand 
scheme.  I only got into flash because Oldes has a REBOL dialect. 
 I only got into REBOL, because it Rocks!   Feel sad for those that 
don't get it.  It really is a "secret weapon" for those that use 
it.


If you believe the TIOBE numbers, REBOL is still well below 0.09 
percent (the lowest they list of the top 50)  We have lots and lots 
of wiggle room.   Paul's new database, Henriks work on Forum, the 
Doc, R3; all positive moves.  I think the only thing that may give 
REBOL a 'quick explosive adoption boost' is a Free Software announcement, 
but I like and respect Carl's decision in that area.  So slow and 
steady may win the race in the long haul.   REBOL is well beyond 
the 'hype' phase and we still love it.  And every few days now, people 
like John give others yet another reason to check it out.  Long live 
R2, Longer live R3.


Once Reichart gets his empire built, that will only be another boost 
to the public face of REBOL as well.   Gabriele, BrianH, Ashley, 
 Graham, umm everybody; making large and small contributions adds 
to the fire.


Well and you doing some high level marketing can't hurt either.  
Keep it up and keep digging.  REBOL is in for the duration from what 
I can see.  And hey, I'm trying my best to drag some of the up and 
coming coders on compsci.ca to the REBOL light.  At least we know 
that REBOL is not a flash in the pan.   We do need to promote people 
like Sunanda a little more perhaps.  The base of rebol.org is terrific 
but it's mosly hidden, much like Altme.

Go rebols go!

I don't think moving to the free software change as much as btiffin 
expect. There are relatively low number of programmers able to do 
"low level" works in rebol iself, and I don't expect there would 
a number of it by the miracle of going to Freesoft. Anyway the most 
awaited change, opening the library acces already happend and nothing 
great was heard/changed.

I actually agree Pavel;  I was hinting, that it would be the "news" 
of the announcement, that would hit the services that would pique 
interest and give a quick boost to adoption (and I didn't mention 
it, but by quick, I was thinking a one or two day "news" boost). 
 And yeah, so far, the 2.7.6 release hasn't even blipped on many 
of the news services, so you've made me rethink the original statement 
as well.
 

I still believe slow and steady will win more than anything.  Back 
to the TIOBE, lower than some 0.09 percent  (magical stats) number; 
we could double the number of rebols tomorrow and still only be 20 
per 10'000 programmers.  :)   Lots and lots of wiggle room.

Just don't buy 'm. Police to enforce laws cost money, too, and more 
than that

Another RIA platform - Apple's SproutCore. So we have Flash, Silverlight, 
Google, Curl, R3 in the future, and now Apple is entering the game 
with interesting development - 


http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/14/cocoa-for-windows-flash-killer-sproutcore/


SproutCore not only makes it easy to build real applications for 
the web using menus, toolbars, drag and drop support, and foreign 
language localization, but it also provides a full Model View Controller 
application stack like Rails (and Cocoa), with bindings, key value 
observing, and view controls. It also exposes the latent features 
of JavaScript, including late binding, closures, and lambda functions. 
Developers will also appreciate tools for code documentation generation, 
fixtures, and unit testing.

Another way to implement and deploy our dialects...

If you look at the postings by the actual people involved in the 
discussion, you will realize that there is no disharmony now, and 
Adobe is not screwed - they were involved in this decision and agreed 
to it.

I just can see another room of hell in possible incompatibilities 
between IE and other browsers in near future.

Doesn't seem to have been posted yet, and it's an important article:

my lcd screen for my computer is dead only after 1 year of use. Syntoma 
when i turn it on the power led indication flash during 5 to 10 minutes 
before the screen lights and became stable. this pumping effect seems 
to be current in the new generation of LCD screen and seems to be 
related to the defective of chimicals condensator next to the alimentation 
block .... having to spend 130 euros  in a new screen only becaue 
two condensators of 0.60 euro are deficient that really piss me off

well dead for dead i can affort a trip to my favorite electronics 
shop and by some condensator and remplace them

I will replace the  condensators and if it works  good for me if 
it doesn't well it doesn't ...

that's a pity those condensors .... the whole screen is new and working 
well apart the pump efect on starting

shadwolf, is "Syntoma" the brand of the LCD monitor ?

Having to wait 5 - 10 minutes before seeing a picture would be a 
waste of time.
Are you sure you cannot get your supplier to replace it ?

If you can fix it, that is good, but you have not earned any money. 
You will have lost both money and time.

I used to have a computer store and I quickly noticed that many products 
just look like the products they're supposed to be, but really aren't

The most interesting example were the floppy disks that were sold 
everywhere at the end of the era of floppy disks. People didn't want 
to spend anything on them any more, so you could store files on them 
and quite consistently, a month later they would be gone

tomorow i'mgoing to disassembly the monitor and replace the condensors 
near the transformer

hum but the problem is productivity and rentability are against quality...

if most of the lcd monitors crafters offer a 3 year waranty that's 
because they are aware their monitor will fail from lacks of fiability 
in their components. Doing fast and lot of monney implicates they 
have to cut cost on every thing...

so instead of putting in the lcd monitors chimical  condensors of 
25 V 1000 µF they put 16 V 1000 µF instead of redunding them they 
just put the just the simple amount of condensors. Instead of putting 
quality condensors wich cost 0.60 cts they put low quality condensors 
at 0.20 cts ... then because you have no redundency on the power 
supply  you don't have backup in the main power supply  and if one 
of the condensors is dead you just have to throw it to junk ....

I could imagine the situation this way; on introduction to the market, 
floppy disk manufacturers were fewer, and prices were higher, so 
the competition was about quality. Later, more manufacturers entered 
the market and caused a price war. Consumers became confused and 
couldn't distinguish brands by quality, so they chose the cheaper 
"alternatives". I could say, then, that the manufacturers which chose 
to lower the quality of their products in order to undercut their 
competition were slowly degrading the public's idea of the quality 
of a floppy disk. Essentially lying, by taking advantage of trust 
in all the confusion.

[Disclaimer: The above is just an alternative explanation. I haven't 
studied the actual history of floppy disks at all, and I never ran 
a computer store.]

I think many manufacturers choose to lower the quality of their products, 
because they learn how to produce an almost identical product at 
a lower cost. Philips VCRs went from being innovative and high quality 
in the 80s and early 90s and slowly became of poorer and poorer quality 
over the years until they became as unreliable as the cheapest crap 
you could find. But I bet it would cost about 1/10 to produce that 
crap VCR than the old high quality one. Finetuning a production line 
down to the last dime is a science in itself and you can bet they 
take advantage of it.

3. Economy of scale: If I produce a product in 1 shift, but can get 
contracts for a 2nd and 3rd shift I can dramatically lower my costs 
-> lower product price.

Nevertheless you have scrap out there and the chances are high with 
real no-names. But this comes from a lot of them think, some products 
are easy to manufactor. But this is not the case. Building a real 
good washing machine like a Miele is everything than simple. Even 
if you disassemble the machine you are not able to clone it.

...interesting, why not robert? I never understood
this fact and heard it many times by business owner
when talking about the danger of cloned products.

TomBon, to clone a Miele, one would need the same materials, production 
processes and suppliers as Miele use. Basically you would need their 
production facilities and engineers. And I know that people's image 
of Miele is of their reliability, not their product design or by 
them having low prices. Reliability is the hardest part to clone, 
so people would naturally be suspicious about a cloned Miele. Cloned, 
cheaper spare parts may be a different matter.

One place where buying a clone might be a serious mistake is the 
case for some Chinese luxury cars. They look like any other luxury 
car, but are built on 30-40 year old chassis frames using substandard 
quality steel and are some of the worst performers in crash tests, 
and many warnings have been issued against buying them. They don't 
yet have the capacity to produce cars that live up to modern safety 
standards. The cars are not directly clones, but it's enough to get 
confused by, if you want a big fancy car.

New google browser that uses multiple cores and javascript threads 
with sandboxing between tabs.

And new platform to develop applications I guess.

I like safari that's amazing stable and fast  ^___^. I have installed 
opera and firefox on my computer I  never use IE.

In some Video on demand sites I see a tendancy to use Windows media 
player plugin forcing you to use PCx86  with IE and nothing else 
...

for my LCD monitor I'm screwed ... LOL and that's literally that. 
Ok so I intented to disamble my LCD monitor but there is no screws 
to open it... I still wonder how to open it ...

using firefox -> that's a plain and simple no welcome page you can't 
even acces the website content

it's  locked only by a cliping system and 6 screw hiden behin the 
pedestal

page 2 of the article Mozilla recently introduced its own upgraded 
browser, Firefox 3, and has collaborated with Google on a variety 
of technical issues, including a system for reporting software crashes 
and to make software browsers more secure.

why we don't all mail to Google and tell them all those languages 
are deprecated and for the next generation of webrowser what they 
need it rebol :P

but seriously i have a friend of rebol community who made a mixing 
betwin OS commerce and rebol webplug interface that was really neat

graham ddyou saw the comics about google chrome ? we should do somthing 
like that to present the tech inside rebol and discuss why CArl should 
this tech instead of others

if they sudently stoped turning on that means one of the condensors 
is dead in general a dead condensor have a rounded top instead of 
a flat top so first thing is to identify what is or are the condensors 
that is dead then you take in note the reference V/µF you go to the 
radio shark and you buy the same one

then you remove the dead condensor and you replace it  by the one 
and Voila

lcd monitors use a neon like lamp to enligh the background of the 
LCD matrix and some time that neon tube lamp dies it can be changed 
easyly

Good news, shadwolf !  You fixed your LCD monitor.  And I suppose 
"condensor" translates to "capacitor" in English...

... well that's the electrinic device to stabilise electric signal 
it store electricy when there is more than expected electricity and 
deliver the stored electricy when the electric singal if weaker to 
maintain a stable level

k so that was the capacitor who was defective and that's a pity to 
have to trash a 1 year old lcd monitor only because they didn't put 
10  more cents to an electric device that in best quality cost 0.60 
cts ...

and now that the defective condensor is replaced the lcd onitor works 
great  ^^

Well, we can conclude - last year in R3 development brought us  - 
delays, delays, delays, modules shift, delays, dealys, delays, Unicode 
implementation, incomplete, delays, delays, delays, VID 3.4 shift 
... and ... nothing more ...

At Google, we have a saying: “launch early and iterate.” - maybe 
we have someone to learn from ...

exactly, and so there is nothing to admire about new Google's effort 
... imo this is completly wrong marketing move. They go against the 
Mozilla foundation, who they sponsor ....

I took a quick look for the binary and any associated files in programs...not 
there ofcourse. Strange.

I wanted to se if REBOL Plugin was saved in same folder. I see gears 
plugin in plugin but not rebol plugin

google Chromettechnologie us the a process design and a new javascrip 
(V8) virtual machine with some cool features like powerfull object 
based garbage collection and  auto object creation (even if you don't 
say so your javascript is decompose into objects) each tab is a separate 
process each things that are needed to show a page is rendered simultanously. 
no asynchronous system so

ho and is javascript fail to run that just have an impact on the 
javascript part of the webpage that doesn't crash the full webbrowser 
or hang the rendering process

Henrik - that is imo incorrect analysis of situation .... I am not 
sure it will influence IE at all. IE is used mainly by those, who 
don't care about browsers at all. And as such, those ppl will NOT 
look at Chrome. If they would be interested in alternative browser, 
they would use FF or Opera already for quite some time. My take is 
- if Chrome is going to hurt somebody, then it is definitively FF, 
not that much Opera. And Google is sponsoring FF by some 70mil USD 
anually, by presetting Google as default search engine. If they stop, 
Mozilla foundation can get into trouble a bit ...

And if Google tries to push their agenda via Chrome (e.g. off-line 
apps), those new era "quick hacks" should not be accepted, unless 
it is defined in terms of W3C standard ...

what is the innovation here? It is marketing trick - WebKit is not 
able to be properly threaded, so they might use separate task ... 
and they turn it into advantage on you - "your tabs will never lock" 
:-)

Pekr, perhaps so, about IE. But I still think it's important that 
we get some shakeups in browser competition. Acid3 brought Safari, 
Opera and FF together for an intense competition on who could support 
it first. IE wasn't even in the race and if IE8 turns out to be the 
disappointment I think it will be, it would get serious problems 
with future Web 2.0 stuff.

I'm unable to test Chrome fully on this slow PC via remote desktop, 
but with many of Google's previous efforts (Google Desktop anyone?), 
it would occur to me that they can use Chrome as a common platform 
for their apps. It is of course far from the elegant solution that 
R3 will bring, but if they are going to keep at it with web 2.0 apps, 
one might want the best way to handle web 2.0.

Graham - and that is exactly what I don't like - it makes me headaches 
:-) I am two week before I have to decide, which way to go - IBM 
WebSphere portal, or MS SharePoint portal :-) Guys want to go .NET 
way ... and now eventual third player to the game with own platform 
:-)

But there will be more people who will (unknowingly?) be using alternative 
browsers, namely Safari through Macs and the iPhone. Particularly 
iPhone will get a huge amount of marketshare growth, if the numbers 
are right.

Graham - portals? Have you seen Drupal, Joomla, etc.? First, we need 
WCMS (web content management system). They work the way, that you 
divide your portal site into zones (mostly columns), and you specify 
portlets to run in certain zones, along with z-ordering, and visibility 
based upon user rights, etc. Then you have workflow tools, DMS, and 
integration tools ... e.g. you can have portlet, which is static 
or dynamic html, bus as well e.g. stub (wrapper) for 3rd systems 
as SAP, etc.

pekr the same can be said about rebol why to do another language 
since you have java and Microsoft .NET

anyone that knows a little the web knows htat IE is the worst to 
surf ...  it's really slow really secureless and that's why 40  percent 
of the web user around teh world use FireFox or other webbrowsers.

I am not saying there should be limited amount of browsers available. 
I am just trying to think consequences it will bring to the table 
.... and FF might get hurt ...

Pekr  chrome is full open source .... OPEN WIDE SOURCE i will say 
and as google dev team says "Our purpose it to set a step stop on 
the next generation webbrowser. We have been inspired by the other 
and we wish chrome will inspire others (they are free to take absolutly 
what they want from it)

Before google search engine exists the 2 leading search engine were 
Altavista and yahoo!  altvista disapear and yahoo ! survived offering 
more services than just search engine

Pekr things rise things falls ...  and that's so true that microsoft 
ensure a maximum market part by merging its webbrowser into its OS 
 this way like it or not use it or not 100% of windows/vista based 
PC have it