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When called with [ ] or [ integer! ], WAIT will process all ports 
stored in system/ports/wait-list. In that case, WAIT will block until 
:

- a timeout is specified and no more events are received for that 
timeout period
- an event returns a TRUE value.

just tried to add this before cheyenne starts:
do-events: does [
	forever [wait [0:0:1] print now/time/precise]
]
And from second console run:
loop 1000 [read http://localhost]


the result is, that it prints the time in every second while it serves 
the requests.

And running my RebolBB with responses <16ms

wow, audio streaming in rebol and uniserve .. cool

The rest will be porting transport and state machines on the server, 
but as Rugby already had a CGI interface it hould be simle to use 
the server with Cheyenne.

That feature is waiting for weeks to be implemented (need it for 
adding a mail relay agent to Cheyenne and for cron-like jobs scheduling), 
I'll give it some time this weekend.

I was looking at uniserve today .. really nicely made .. especially 
if you know that uniserve is running cheyenne which runs so fast 
and well .. I will port my distibuted actors library to use uniserve

If I have a Uniserve service that I've created, and two clients (say, 
A and B) connect to this service, how can I have A send a message 
to B?

In your Uniserve service, build a list of ports with every client 
connecting (on-new-client event). When required, walk through the 
list of ports and broadcast whatever you want to the selected ones 
(or everyone). See this Chat application server-side source as an 
example of how to achieve that (it's not an Uniserve service, but 
it's very close anyway) : http://cheyenne-server.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Cheyenne/www/ws-apps/chat.r


The resulting chat application is here : http://demo.cheyenne-server.org:8080/chat.html

One question Doc , I know you invested a tons of time info figuring 
out all thinks needed to make async sockets with rebol work so well, 
but..  did you ever consider using something like libevent ( http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/
) or libev ( http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html) . These 
libraries are very popular with embeding in many languages ( and 
show outstanding benchmarks ) last few years after the C10K problem 
was formulated ( http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html)

I am asking just out of curiosity and because it could mean aditional 
benefits for uniserve (which I am looking to use for sometihng now) 
and by that of course also cheyenne

Libevent were suggested for R3, to be incorporated, but Carl said, 
that event model was rewritten for R3, and that it is really good. 
IMO Uniserve is relying on R2 even mechanism, I am not sure how it 
could use libevent instead? But that is for gurus to consider ..

I'm aware of libevent. Wrapping such lib in R2 would mean, at least, 
giving up on REBOL ports and REBOL's event loop. Quite a huge price 
to pay (UniServe couldn't be used with View apps, nor could receive 
system:// port events anymore). There's also the need to call REBOL 
function from the C side, which is not well supported in R2 (not 
even in R3...yet).

mongrel is a server for ruby .. but it has a open sourced http parser 
that is written in "ragel" which is engine that makes some fast and 
lightweigh C code out of state machine specification. it's known 
as to be very fast and very robust because of that ( I listened too 
much online video talks in my life ) ... I will try to find some 
links

Ah, thanks for the info, I'll check the parsing rules used (that's 
a real PIA to get it right *and* secure). For the speed concern, 
a PARSE-based solution shouldn't be much slower than a C parser.

aja.. didn't look that far .. I thougth it parses given input and 
gives some result , but because result is complex callbacks might 
be nevesarry ..

**if** you found it's worth it you could make callbacks in c .. collect 
the result and only return it to rebol as data

but for the starters it requieres worka and time to discover if it's 
even worth it

I saw some huge graph one time as "whole HTTP spec" .. it was huge, 
and worying how complex it looked .. I will try to find it

Yes, surely parse can do it... I am just debating .. I am not sure 
if mongrell is really that awesome.


I was thinking that speedwise the upper bound of the http server 
is determined by socket handling and http parsing probably? Meaning 
that even if you have everything in ram and prepared you can't serve 
more thatn that. Cheyenne has a *very* high upper bound for a dynamic 
language (I was many times expressing my surprise and getting 250 
req/s was the reason I returned back to rebol with doing all webapps 
in it now).

aha .. http://webmachine.basho.com/diagram.html.. it's horibble 
basically .. if I would create a webserver I would just make 200 
and few errors, f* with the rest :)

Improving Cheyenne/UniServe: adding multithreading could make it 
scale much higher with much lower memory footprint. Currently, the 
main process stabilizes around ~20MB after a few hundred requests 
and each worker process take ~15-20MB depending on the application 
and loaded 3rd-party librairies. So for a server script what would 
take 1s to complete, supporting 100 clients simultaneously would 
require today ~2GB of memory. This is huge. 


Carl stated recently that threads overhead is 1MB, so with multithreading 
support, the memory usage for such use case would drop to ~100MB, 
which is an order of magnitude lower (not mentioning the speed gains 
and code simplifications resulting from dropping TCP-based IPC).

Briefly, can someone tell me the difference between Uniserve and 
Rebol/Services ?

nve - R/S were never properly finished. And for R3, Carl has lighter 
network services in mind. I would not bet on R/S for now ...

Graham: merging both smtp servers codebase could be a good option 
and a way for Cheyenne to get 7-bit SMTP server support (which it 
is lacking currently, so classified as still "experimental").

No official documentation, but change-log is enough I think, right? 
(And services/protocols in Cheyenne as examples)

And for new features, have a look in Cheyenne's changelog.

also... i need feedback on the proposed visit plans. let me know 
your opinion. if they seem ok i can contact hotels and so on and 
prepare a registration form (for reservations) with prices and so 
on.

Gabriele do you plan to retransmit throught internet the devcon like 
it have been done last year ?? If yes the best tool possible would 
be NSV and NullSoft Shoutcast serveur (but it depends too on the 
disponnible materials :)

Gabriele no audio and video ;)

for a windows based OS  you can use Shoutcast to broadcast audio/video 
streaming and the NSV TOOLS doftware to set up the audiovideo formats 
for the acquisition from you webcam and audio consol. The point is 
that shoutcast audio / video quality is far better than Quicktime 
... higher resolution higher depth lesser bandwidth used (audio = 
mp3 video = null software video format)

NSV-TOOLS software will connect to the shoutcast server and automatically 
display to client what he is acquiring

for windows 2k and XP

client opens winamp and on main menu >open>url http://adresseip/;stream.nsv

Regarding quality QT is far know as the best. Specially the new H.264 
which part of the new HDTV and DVD standards. (And there is the VLC 
Player that runs everyware).

As I said the problems we have last time were not related to our 
broadcasting or encoding format. It was due to our physical instruments 
(camaras, mics, and camera man).

But hey they do have money and professional cameras, bw, video switcher, 
and so they throw a lot of money to make his "Keynotes" remarkable.

support both itunes and shoutcast ;)

Yes. VLC is good player in a lot of platforms and it also plays QT? 
Show what is the advantage of ShoutCast?

i may opionion the speed and the light weight use of the band width

speed and bw is a matter of the codec you choose H.264 is very high 
quality and very ligth. So much that it is used and become the standard 
for mobile cell phones.

no but I m acquiring and playing back at the same time due to the 
hour here I can't use sound

I only get one picture of you and then it freezes and dies. With 
QT you will get on buffering and play a little then it will back 
to buffering...

I know of some where you can have overlays, and preload the transparencies 
and do switching back and forth between multiple cameras, and slides 
with transition effects. Only that is cost about USD$400.

Same in QT Real Time special effects and subtittles.

yes but if you have ugly squares every where that means that the 
image is not decoded properly

 because usually codecs divide the image in sections and reconstruct 
 it by multiple phases from bigger grain (bigger square blocks) to 
 smaller (pixels). So my suspicion on the failure on the codec part. 
 It maybe a problem of not receiving enough data (frame drops or pkt 
 drops), or problems with jitter and interleaving.

with winamp and win2K it's quite good  ;)

We need platform coverage, real-time archiving and real-time broadcasting, 
broacast relaying, easy setup, low bw, and high quality.

shadwolf: the problems you describe are due to packet loss, and would 
be EXACTLY the same both on shoutcast and QT.

we had two problems with QT last year: first one, on the first speech 
the audio codec was not set up correctly. this was fixed later on. 
second, we had to resort using the mic on the camera (which is a 
cheap camera after all...), and of course the lighting in the room 
was not good at all for a camera (it was dark to allow us to see 
the slides)

the wireless mic I bought for the PA system at the conference ended 
up having a bad lapel mic, and testing the system revealed to me 
that the earpiece was actually a better mic (  strange, but true 
) but no one else knew that, so the first speech did not have the 
PA working, because the Lapel mic was used instead of the earpiece.

i guess we can at least have good mics. otherwise, i'll just buy 
something and test it before the devcon.

I only brought 1 tripod, and I should have brought 2.  So the camera 
I had, I had to hand-hold, and with the Hotel coffee, my hands were 
shakey...;-)

I will not be able to make it to DevCon2005... but here's my input.


It will be good if 'virtual audience' can have access to the speakers 
papers or presentation maybe the night or even as they are presenting.


That way.. we can listen and digest from the presentation on hand...

One option is to provide commentary text, images and links a few 
seconds after they are shown.

For synchro skating competitions that we can't attend, we follow 
them using Team Germany's Live Ticker.
http://www.teamberlin-1.de/live_frame.php?ev=2&lang=en

This is a very slick PHP application that has photos taken at the 
arena and broadcasts them  a few seconds later.

Some dedicated fans from Germany were providing the photos (JPEGs), 
scores and bilingual (at least English and German) commentaries.

When new content is published, a message appears at the top to inform 
the viewer that it is available.

They hit the refresh hyperlink and they are up-to-date.   From the 
timestamps, our lag time to Canada was sometimes as low as 45 seconds 
after the event occurred i.e. we are getting commentary results about 
a given team's skating while they are still on the ice.

This site reports http://www.teamberlin-1.de/en/cup-of-berlin/that 
4,000 viewers followed the Berlin Cup in Jan-2005 using Live Ticker.

Maybe something like that would work for DevCon2005.

they prefer to comunicate on audio layer but video exist too with 
shoutcast but then video seems to doesn't work properly with MacOSX 
clients (VLC ...) I have no objection to use QT but It would be nice 
to first test the reability of shoutcast witch have been done and 
witch gives us the known result ...

My friend who is big fan of F1 racing today informed me, that 2nd 
of October, there is F1 racing in Milano? He also told me, F1 is 
rather popular in Italy, and that we should expect Millano traffic 
troubles starting from 1st of October. Gabriele?

Monza "Grand Prix" is 2, 3 and 4 september. So if any, it's not formula 
one at this date.

We should have a discussion forum slot and/or hack-a-solution session. 
 It will be good if we could have a project to tackle together, besides 
presenting . This could help us either build new mezz, or prototype 
some ideas. We could post ideas on what to do in the hack session 
ahead of time.

about discussion: i hope we can have plenty of that after 4 pm. :) 
maybe we can have a room at the hotel or something like that to sit 
around a table and just talk

... and drink :-)

2) No, Shadwolf  and I have done a Reblet that renders MDP documents. 
Something like his MDP-GUI. The idea is to use such a browser (with 
an attached editor) as base for a x-internet wiki system. Distributed 
via IOS.

plan for Rome sounds really attractive, although in my case there 
are several factors - how to get to Italy (probably by car, but I 
can't travell myself that far a way ...) and money - I invested into 
Xidys and now I am short for money :-)

simply - two nights in Rome, right? It is some 180 EUR for accomodation, 
then there is train to Millano - 50 EUR. But what if we go by car? 
Should we travell directly to Rome? Or first accomodate ourselves 
in Treviglio and travell to Rome by train?

ah, that could be interesting. You have some experience in that area? 
That is really a good question - "how to get rebol succesfull"? Today 
I posted another links to article talking about Ruby (Rails) and 
such arctile mentions Python, PHP, Perl, but noone ever mentions 
Rebol - I wonder why ... - so - good topic!

petr: if you share the room (they're all double rooms) it's €90 for 
two nights. and by car it can cost you more than €50 (unless you 
share too). but, i guess in your case it's just much cheaper to get 
directly in milan.

I will probably go directly for devcon to Milan, leaving Rome visit 
for some later time once I will be rich :-) Well, I will see - I 
need to talk to Cyphre and Ladislav how do we travell. If we can 
go by one car, the expenses will be lower of course ...

Gabriele, if and when you get the technical details for a webcast, 
let me know. My family has 2 vacations planned and so I won't be 
able to make it. : ^(

And on a voluntary basis.

yes, and hopefully treviglio is covered. but, dunno about prices 
for umts connection. i guess it is pretty expensive.

Maybe the project should be finish RebGUI, it is opensource and I 
think two of their main contributors will be there.

RebGUI: That's a very good idea. IMO RebGUI is the most active and 
broad-based community project of the last 12 months.

And it adds a lot of value to speed-up development time for applications.

multi-column table, and a data-form dialect.

Gabriele - thank you so much for planning a sightseeing trip in Rome 
and negotiating a reduced hotel rate.  That is really above and beyond 
the call of duty.  My one piece of feedback is regarding the schedule. 
 I helped plan Handango's annual conferences and the one thing I 
learned early on is that bathroom breaks are very important.  I noticed 
the schedule has no breaks.  You might want to add in a few 15 minute 
breaks, otherwise you'll have people walking in and out of the sessions.

done (thanks to Cindy too, which gave the same suggestion and reworked 
the schedule). I have updated the schedule.

Gabriele, is it too late to add a presentation slot for me? (I thought 
I already had one (-  ) Topic would be:

	Building & selling REBOL-based solutions - theory and practice.

or if folks preferred:

	Building REBOL-based community projects - RebGUI case study.

And +1 for the second.

Brock - good one! Understanding View/VID and its lower level internals 
would be good to have presented ...

and documented.

this one is in english and should have italian flights too http://www.travelocity.com/

(And we hope that they actually provide planes with it too. ;)

Someone here wanted to prepare presentation about business possibilities 
and using certain language (REBOL). Here's one article regarding 
"The economics of programming languages" - http://www.dedasys.com/articles/programming_language_economics.html
(taken from osnews.com)

If you select sharing a room and check "suggest ..." I will suggest 
possible roommates as soon as i have enough submissions.

in all cases REbGUI must be presented as a main effort of cooperativ 
work on a bettring VID project that commes from the ground (people 
like me the basement or rebol coder community and not REbol Technology) 
This kind of work are essential iMO for a better diffusion of rebol 
and to make lighter the work of CARL upon REBOL VM ... Do carl can 
handle all alone ? Can't we apport a sort pf answer and show to rebolers 
and to RT that cooperativ work and hudge project are pretty usefull 
for educationnal purposes but for rebol large diffusion and adoption 
by the professional area ?

It IS what REBOL needs most, applications which are complete, professional, 
and good examples to others what REBOLers can do.

and/or MDP-GUI ...

btw, i will not send the payment request immediately. no need for 
that right now; (especially the banquet). but, please hurry if you 
want an hotel reservation! the sooner you register, the more time 
we have to arrange things and so on.

so... if you were waiting to register because you want to wait for 
paying... please register now, and you will pay later. (in a couple 
weeks, a month for speakers that only need to pay for the banquet.)

Does it plan "visit of Milan" for the Wenesday or Thursday ?

And so for hotel, it mean one night at Milan or all at Treviglio 
?

All this for a question of total cost for my italian trip!

my idea was for it to be on thursday, and i think there's no need 
to stay one night in milan (treviglio is close enough). i'll ask 
Mario what his plans are.

From Mario: "I think that coming in a hotel in Treviglio is cheaper. 
The return Treviglio-Milano railway ticket is around 10€ and the 
Milan 24h underground/bus/tram ticket is 3€ so DideC can save money 
as the train usually takes 30 to 45 minutes from Treviglio to Milano.


About the visit in Milano I can help for sure during the afternoon 
and evening. If there are a few people I can go with them and ttake 
them back with the car. If there are a lot of people willing to see 
Milan the days before the conference I can make a plan for Milan 
visit.


How much can be the budget for Milano tour? Leaving out the 3€ 
there are free things to visit as museums (should pay) or the castle 
(free or paid guided tour) as the Cathedral lift to see "il Duomo 
e la Madunina"...


I just need to know how much time, when, who and an aproximate budget 
per day."

€ = euro

I think 30 uero per day for the visists could be enough.
I 
assume hotel and transports as fixed cost (60 euros at most per day 
unless one gets the royal suite deluxe).
For food one can choose 
between 5 euro at McDonalds or 100 euro for an expensive restaurant. 
With 40 euros a day you can eat a lot and still choose very good 
food. I think 25 to 30 euros per day is the right choice.

I'm away 
for an hour (must eat)...

I've two questions. 1) I plan to come Saterday 24th at Rome and already 
visit things in Rome with my wife even if I'll visit Rome with the 
group on Wednesday 28th. Can I make a reservation for hotel Virginia 
with registration form of DevCon2005 website with your interresting 
price (90€ for a double room) for my whole stay in Rome (5 nights)

And just a thing... Great work  for the new version of the website 
! Thanks Gabriele !

2) the idea is to visit anything we can do in one day on that line. 
maybe i'll spend a day on that line before september so that i can 
have an idea of the time we have and so on.

As I'm still not sure about the discussion topic for the DevCon05 
I'd like to ask you, the DevCon audience, for suggestions. I don't 
want to be boring so: " What you would like to hear from me?"  ;-) 
 As for now I'm thinking about 'library wrapping' and/or 'VID style 
creation' topics. Any other ideas are welcome. Thanks!

VID styles and how to design them for a library :-))

Hallo all, I'm trying to plan a city tour in Milano for people attending 
the DevCon and arriving early or leaving late.

Who plans to go for a walk in Milan? Any special request? I will 
make you use feet a lot and 15 to 20 euros for transports and tickets.