AltME groups: search

probably not, but why not outline the planned future? R3 is alpha, 
and it should be treated as such. R3 adds nice stuff - unicode, modules, 
control of boot sequence, devices, codecs, etc. Robert might face 
the questions of recent REBOL status anyway ....

I downloaded the archive before the retraction and it does have very 
recent source files in it ...

You may recall a recent tweet of his finding a lot of Amiga relics 
in his basement .. so he's going to sell them

I manually removed altme from my Ubuntu netbook today as 1.1.29 would 
neither connect nor uninstall  -  is it worth trying again with a 
more recent release, or should I just use this ole windoze box (with 
1.2.25) and spare myself  the aggravation?

Is anyone using AltMe from linux (like a recent Ubuntu)? I moved 
to linux for 90% of things but I can't run altme there, and rebol 
view crashes also. I didn't look into depth of why..

It works fairly well on recent Ubuntu, although the fonts are better 
on some other distros

you made me banned from that fake rebol school  group you are so 
proud of but the truth is henrik tha recent  rebol project submited 
to rtebol.org are just toys far from a cheyene!

you can watch rebol.com changes here - http://www.rebol.com/recent.html

Just edited the parse proposals, based on recent discussions. Added 
a STAY proposal, renamed EITHER 2 to THEN, added the controversy 
to the priorities section.

Cyphre is waiting for the C code alignment. He does not have recent 
sources for View. If I understand him correctly, he has to wait for 
the Host code release ...

it's an willing change of the design from Carl, long time ago.
It's not recent.

Brian: I judge situation upon recent experience! Networking protocols 
are NOT delivered by anyone for something like 3 years. So "it can 
be" means nothing for me, especially for the low-level C code of 
certain quality. How many C coders do we have here? How many of them 
are able to write the code, which would be accepted by Carl to be 
included in official distro?

If we did not get single networking protocol in 3 years, no single 
fix to http protocol (and we are talking mezzanine level here), WHEN 
do you expect, that feature like SSL/TLS, https could appear for 
R3? That is my only worry here. I am not agains the delivery by some 
"third party", I am just worried judging by recent experience ...

guys, to make things clear for me - recent efforts - if someone reports, 
that R3 compiles on system XY, does it mean that we are able to build 
R3 on such a platform = it is build and usable on such a platform? 
Or are we reporting that Carl is able to compile just DLL on a target 
platform?

I wonder if the /lines is a recent refinement or if I just never 
noticed it.

BTW.. did any of you see the recent discussions about Unicorn ( a 
pure Unix philosophy webserver - that uses pool of processes .. etc.. 
very interesting blogposts in any manner, I can find links if anyone 
is interested. It reminded me a little on cheyenne too, although 
Unicorn has no async I think)

I had a problem to start the recent cheyenne version as a service 
after encapping.
I got always crash.logs that it could not find some files.
After manually copying the files it works.
Can it be that in .cache.efs the new features are not included?

It seems that the PID file location recent change was a bad move, 
/var/run is by default only writable by root...To workaround that, 
user should create a sub-folder as root and then chown it to the 
application user to allow it to write PID files there : http://serverfault.com/questions/159334/what-permission-to-write-pid-file-in-var-run

Also, the version I have still says "> Catched Error <" which might 
read better as "> Caught Error <". That may be in recent versions.

I do see the asymmetry on our server. I have also had cases, though, 
where the number of workers went above eight or to zero. I'm not 
sure if that is still happening with the recent version

SQLite use to have issues handling concurrent writes (data corruption 
could happen), I don't know if recent versions improved that or not.

If you upgraded from a really older version, you might get some issues 
with the libraries loading from app-init.r as DO behaviour was changed 
in more recent versions.

Right, I should also recompile it with a more recent version of msvcrt 
library I guess.

I sort by recent changes, comments show up as such changes. But not 
comment modifications though.

About server failures, my server is pretty solid (SSD drives, recent 
hw) and full DB backups are done every day by a batch script on a 
remote  machine (my local home server, a Eeebox ;-)).

I've changed the format of the GUID field in RSS feeds, so you'll 
get duplicate entries for the recent changes, just ignore them or 
delete the old ones.

Pekr, Carl already said in a recent blog that the ability to have 
extensions built into the host is already planned, and he is working 
on it.

So far, that is - see recent blogs for details.

The .rlp version is more than 2 years old, the .r is more recent 
and works.

but that would be _my_ answer to your recent read/as concerns

All the recent scheme work makes me want to jump in and see if we 
can make a nice scheme dialect. :-)

that's gone in the recent rev anyway

the most recent version doesn't currently fetch messages, yes

Ok, good... then I'll start with IMAP... since it's more recent.

Kaj - you misunderstood. What BrianH imo means is just general note, 
not any recent activity :-) Last R3 activity of Carl is almost 3 
months old imo ...

BrianH: there are more changes planned, no? Like adding layers, etc. 
Henrik summed it up somewhere, maybe he can repost. And as far as 
I remember - the changes might influence your code, so I am not sure 
if it is good to do any GUI related work in recent VID state ...

Many recent operating systems support multitouch, including Mac OS 
X, Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition and Ubuntu 
(since version 7.10), Google's Android, Palm's webOS and Xandros. 
Application frameworks such as MT4j (Multi-touch for Java) and PyMT, 
a Python module that supports multitouch, have also been developed.

I wonder what would be needed for transition effects, as e.g. PowerPoint 
has ... to slide away screen or its elements in various ways. There 
is some basic effect -fly-out - in recent R3 gui demo, but dunno 
if it is interchangeable

those things you mention (more styles) can be done even in recent 
VID state? Do you regard architecture being stable? E.g. - I remember 
you (and me too) did not like max-size. But it is basis of Carl's 
resizing model calculation. So no fear of later changes on your side?

With recent alphas, Is there a way to run GUI scripts with no console 
window open? I guess not ...

The morphic AA looks nicer though I wouldn't see any big difference 
if the pictures were shown separately to me. Also I haven't found 
any details..just couple of screenshot comparions with Inkscape. 
The author is not mentioning a word about preformance etc. As Pekr 
said AGG have already good quality and imo there will be 'slight' 
visual difference between Morphic unless you start comparing pixels.

Also don't forget there is not only antialiasing in play. AGG uses 
very vell written vector graphic 'framework' packed with features. 
All the new algorithms presented in recent years are still missing 
that part.

But I agree. If Morphic(or whatever else) will offer faster&better 
quality AA it should be possible to write custom rasterizer/renderer 
module(simmilar as the special Flash rasterizer) so it can be used 
inside AGG framework.

btw - what is the situation/plan with fonts? Initial (recent) VID3 
(View) font rendering was not sometimes too pleasant. Was it due 
to not so precise font metrics 'tex-size calculations, or was it 
due to not being able to use more advanced (licensed/patented) techniques? 
Is there any way of how to resolve this issue?

Graham in recent video card the GDI stack is not the most optimised 

they pushed walls to allow new things like the blu ray decoding to 
have a room and that have obviously an impact on the previous guys 
there and DX11 ...MicroSoft tod the whole word that GDI rendering 
was dead and that the only thing that matters was DX 11 rendering 
even for their widgets and desktop everyday rendering (aero)

I would stay with recent naming them - both names kind of represent 
a "container" kind of a meaning. It is a documentation thing imo.

Yes, Henrik, you are more familiar with the recent work on the R3 
GUI, please explain :)

But - I think that we can't change it in recent stage of development, 
so just regards it being my typical rant :-)

or at least small changelog?  :-) Is it difficult to provide in recent 
stage of development? E.g. when you release new version - what actually 
changed, what should be tested, etc.?

what do you mean by formalizing actors? Any problems with recent 
aproach?

Yeah. The tree view on the left has been a good substitute for multiline 
tabs in recent preference dialogs.

I agree that the tree view has replaced multi-line tabs in recent 
years.

The recent R3 builds have focused on core changes. The GUI has been 
developed separately.

You need to use the R3 version with the graphics APIs included - 
recent RT releases have been core only. Try http://www.rm-asset.com/code/downloads/files/rma-r3-build.zip
(which I got from http://www.rm-asset.com/code/downloads/).

preliminary peak
 = Carl did some recent revision? :-)

I really wonder, if R3 GUI sees ANY regular development? ;-) Half 
the styles don't work or don't work as expected :-) Recent R3 GUI 
status is, that it is not usable for more than simple dialog box 
:-) I hope that we can see some quick fixes? :-)

So much questions, great :)

I want freaking to change the color of the scroller
 - If not possible right now, it's bug and will be fixed.

How do I 
destylize" panel for e.g.?" - use material NONE

What is the correct way to call an actor?

 -  do-style FACE [object!] ACTOR [word!] DATA [any-type!] ; for example: 
 do-style face 'on-update none


how can I recognise, what arguments particular actors should obtain

 - good question. I have some ideas how to solve it, but right now 
 you should ask or study source :)

How can I properly attach scroller to progress bar?

 - In your case it should be auto-attached and 'attach shouldn't be 
 needed. Maybe 'attach doesn't work at the moment as the auto-attaching 
 of scrollers is actually a very bad thing that brings more problems 
 than it solves.So ATTACH is going to be reviewed and fixed when necessary.

I really wonder, if R3 GUI sees ANY regular development?

 - It does, but the developement does occur in areas you're probably 
 not interested in (GUI internals, TEXT-TABLE...)


Recent R3 GUI status is, that it is not usable for more than simple 
dialog box
 - Typical Pekrovina ;)

I would not mind, if style/options would be renamed to args or params. 
And if it will unify with reactors, then - why not? I know that other 
pov might be, that those really options, just inlined. So - you can 
have RMA voting, as now you imo clearly understand, why I had the 
problem with the recent naming. Maybe you will decide that it is 
fine as it is, it's your GUI after all :-)

Is drawing supported in recent GUI? I tried simple:

>> view make gob! [draw: [circle 100x100 30]]
** Script error: expected command! not circle
** Where: show-native show view
** Near: show-native gob

The file with the whole code should at least have a modified date 
that matches when it was last built, or match the most recent modified 
date of its component parts.

Yes, these are the boxmodel attributes, as named in the recent versions 
of the R3 GUI

hmm, there seems to be so much of colors, etc. I sometimes almost 
feel, that we overload GUI once again. In R2, there was a face. We 
introduced gob, as a means of having smaller object in memory. In 
fact, there is a face linked to each gob, no? And just print recent 
styles structure - it is now bigger than R2's face. And you also 
don't use 'intern for things which could be shared between the instances 
= wasting memory again?

Hi, guys

Once again, congratulations for the excellent work done.

As Rebolek suggested in ALTME, I have some modifications to submit 
(of course, to check from your side) for the next r3-gui release.


I must first mention that I just realized this morning that the r3.exe 
 pre-compiled version of march 11th was not working properly, bugging 
with some very simple text displays (probably an old version). That's 
the reason why I did not update the demo with the most recent r3-gui 
file. By the way, the  build date displayed by the exe remains the 
same whatever the real building date. I don't know how we could have 
an automatic update of the build version.


Rebuilding from your sources (march 11th) allowed the demo to work 
properly apart from some appearence differences (I have even seen 
some bugs solved compared to my demo version). However, I will wait 
for your next weekly release ;-) to update my demo.

Coming back to the propositions of modifications :


It seems that there are definitions problems, or incompatibilities
in r3-gui (around line 66)        
;-- circle: [pair! | number! | number!]    
circle: [pair! | pair! |number! | number!]

in r3-gui (around line 1729) 
;-- scale: [decimal! decimal!]  
scale: [pair!]

also, I overload the drawing style by this code :
stylize [
    drawing: sensor [
        about: "Simple scalar vector draw block. Can be clicked."
        tags: [input tab]
        facets: [
            init-size: 100x100
        ]
        options: [
            drawing: [block!]
            init-size: [pair!]
        ]

        actors: [
            on-make: [
            ;    if block? drw: face/facets/drawing [
            ;       bind face/gob/draw: copy drw face/facets]

            ]
            ;-- JC
            on-draw: [face/facets/drawing]
        ]
    ]
]


Concerning the discussion of this morning on groups and panels, I 
would also prefer to have a default horizontal arrangement, and only 
precise when vertical: group, panel, vgroup, vpanel. A side effect 
is that it would remain compatible with Carl's doc.

By the way, it seems that tight is vtight. Logically, it should be 
htight.


That's all for the moment. When debugging the last demos, I may find 
other issues.

Has there been any recent releases here?

I understand that you are focusing resources as much as possible, 
otoh it is a bit dangerous aproach - R3 GUI saw rather intense concept 
changes during last year. Anyone eventually willing to give it a 
try once time permits will think twice, as recent public release 
could be pretty much outdated in few weeks, API wise, etc. There 
should imo be a way, that upon some request or bunch of requests, 
public release is done e.g once in few months?

There is an unheard of (for RT) transparence of work done on the 
website (http://www.rebol.com/recent.html). A cynic might think, 
though, that it can surely be only a matter of time until that page 
is locked down and protected and whatnot.

http://www.rebol.com/recent.html

Why is REBOL3/Docs Recent changes subpage protected by password? 
This page is essential to me, as well as recent changes page on wiki. 
This is the only way to find out, if there is something new happening 
...

Does anyone know, if protecting R3 Docs Recent changes site is intentional? 
It served me well to look into new stuff.

The only news is recent Twitter post: "AltME.com website, DNS, WNS, 
and various other changes quite disruptive today, but should settle 
down soon."

Note that the ticket was marked as a problem, not dismissed (yet). 
The problem was explained in the comments, and more thoroughly now 
in my more recent reply there.

The Core version was released experimentally a few days; View is 
more recent.

Interesting idea, Graham. It's not that dissimilar to the recent 
proposal that EMPTY? take none. CureCode it :)

So, has there been *any* recent physical progress on R3 in recent 
weeks ?

Yup, there is no point to reporting task! bugs yet, they all get 
deferred. But not deferred very long, if recent indications are true 
:)

extra == "plus". In a recent CC bug Carl for example mentioned having 
LAST? in core and moving SINGLE? to plus, if it is still wanted.

Main changes so far, relative to my recent work:

- A different code style which Carl thinks will be easier to read 
and maintain (mostly using CASE/all).

- Some of the more awkward repeating code patterns have been split 
out into functions, which in some cases will be made native.

- The API of LOAD has been simplified, though is more flexible. Its 
behavior with no options is the same, but some options have changed.

- Some functions are renamed, and some code has been moved from function 
to function (this was expected).

- The sys and lib contexts take the role previously planned for the 
exports context and module-tools mixin, though the usage is the same.

- Fewer functions will be exported into lib than I was expecting. 
The short names of the lib and sys contexts enable this.

Those first three were tricks that I couldn't do, because I don't 
set the standard APIs and don't write the natives. But the core semantics 
are quite similar to my recent work.

What are the registered filetypes in the more recent builds? What 
is the consequence of a file type being registered? Is there any 
documentation?

No, core works for me for now, and all of my contributions in the 
recent round have been mezzanine, and native testing. I'll start 
working on the higher-level host kit code more when the lower-level 
code I have been working on is done.

I'm sure that you had other objectives as well when you got involved 
in the most recent parse project 6 or 7 months after it started. 
Were you involved in the first round of parse proposals about 6 years 
ago? I remember Gabriele making a page for them after they had been 
discussed for a while, but not whether the initial discussions were 
here or on the mailing list.

Your recent work on the project has been much appreciated.

Pharo Smalltalk implements two methods as    isNaN    but has no 
such class  and  I no longer see NotANumber in Cincom Visual Works 
Smalltalk so that covers a new Smalltalk implementation ( Pharo )and 
a very mature implementation ( VW ).  Two recent languages to check: 
might be Falcon and Io ( falcon is not yet 1.0 at falconpl.org )

It's probably time to reactivate my Git hostkit mirror, and update 
it with those recent sources ...

As for #1434 (and your most recent code example), I would prefer 
to have lit-words and lit-paths be consistently active values (the 
way lit-words are in R3 now) for the same reasons you proposed #1881 
and #1882. This means having them convert to word and path when they 
are evaluated instead of just gotten. But if you would prefer them 
to be a special case like parens (the way lit-paths are in R3 now), 
that would work for me too as long as that is the case for both lit-words 
and lit-paths - it would make them a little easier to work with.

This is by far the longest period of Carl's disappearance, IIRC. 
The reasons we can only speculate about - some personal/family difficulcies, 
burn-out to the REBOL topic, new daily job, which does not   left 
you with much energy and free time to do some other stuff, REBOL 
related.


We tried to get Carl's answer on R3 Chat, only with sporadic answer 
of recent Carl's job. But no answers to "what's next" for the REBOL. 
The reasons might be various again - Carl is willing to proceed, 
he just dosn't have time/energy. He is most probably not willing 
to open-source the project either, which gets us into kind of schizophrenic 
situation - no open-source, no progress either. If Carl would know 
the answer to what's next for REBOL question, he would already share 
it with us. But he did not do so, yet, which is a bit disappointing 
of course.


As for a phone call - I don't know - I would not call him, as it 
could get him into feeling, that we push him to give us an answer, 
which he might not have right now. But - I think that call from some 
friend, e.g. Reichart, would be accepted differently. But then - 
we can't push anyone to do anything, and from few weeks old discussion 
I think that Reichart does not necessarily feel urge to do such a 
thing, which is OK too.


So ... we wait ... and RED progresses at least, so hopefully in the 
end, there is still the chance that we will see the light in the 
end of the tunnel :-)

I'm pretty sure I used the most recent Xcode available for Tiger, 
which seems to be 2.5.

Carl's disappearance also made me forget about those changes. But 
as he writes in his most recent R3 blog post "If I can find any other 
changes this weekend, I will merge them.", maybe they still are of 
any use.

Otherwise we'll see after the A111 release :)

(stupid typos in recent messages - bad keyboard or fingers, can't 
figure out which)

Andreas, the recent SQL standards call this operation MERGE, partly 
because UPSERT sounds terrible.

Ladislav, does not POKE DATA parameter already accept argument of 
any type ?  ( I checked only Rebol3 alpha 76 (not most recent) and 
Rebol2.7.7).

another (possibly simpler) option for recent git on ubuntu is to 
use third-party packages. just add 
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/git-core/ppa/ubuntulucid main

to /etc/apt/sources.list, replacing "lucid" with the name or your 
distro. then do an `apt-get update` and `apt-get install git-core`

git works fine on recent solaris, freebsd, openbsd. and even aix 
and hp/ux.

I have all those systems, minus the word "recent".

I try to stay about 3-5 years behind "recent" in order to make the 
code work over the greatest range of systems.

Now someone should really write some short docs. This is so complex 
and surely was not created for normal mortal, who just wants to download 
few source files and build a distro? So I downloaded Tortoise Git, 
naively thinking this is all I need. No, so I installed Git preview 
version (not full msysGit). Now - what should I do? I created a directory 
called host-kit, right pressed mouse, and chose "create repository 
here" or something like that. Now once again I press right mosue 
button, and try either git-clone, or Git sync, but it does nothing 
... I think my problem might be (apart from being too dumb and not 
willing to spend tonnes of my free time with such complex stuff):

- I am required to have some kind of account at target site

- I don't have it somehow linked with SSH stuff (did not choose to 
use my putty installation during the installation phase)


How do I get the actual copy of R3 Host Kit? There might be plenty 
users as me, willing just to download recent sources, and build, 
not to commit anything ...

I want to achieve following workflow:

- new files are added

- files with the same name replace old ones (no mater if I edited 
them)

- non-used files which are not part of the distro anymore, are deleted 
(no matter if I edited them)

- files which are not part of previous nor recent distro (e.g. my 
testing scripts) stay untouched ....

Also, it should be noted, that although most developers often use 
the most recent versions of their OS, most "normal users" do  not.


Or, said another way: I have friends who run businesses that just 
support very old operating systems for very large companies... e.g. 
ATT as an example.

So even the FOREACH workaround would be enough to prompt a change 
now. For that matter, the most recent module system rewrite was specifically 
for that reason. The new module system doesn't do anything that the 
pre-108 rewrite didn't do, but it is easier to use. Easy by default 
is the top priority.

isn't this a recent change?

we still need to add an extra if before the length? all the time.


its funny because the recent discussion on naming and *? words has 
made me realize that the length? and many others could in fact be 
altered to support this idiom if its done consistently.

yes, in such a sense (expensive change), I understand.  


I will wait for brian to step up and get his opinion.  I know we've 
spoken about this somewhat before, but not as head-on, for myself... 
 With the recent talk about naming, IMHO it has put a new light on 
the possibility for this to be a bit more appreciated, adding ? at 
the end would now mean something concrete.


let it be known that I do like errors, I am not against errors, I 
have been putting less and less error recovery in my code to make 
sure it crashes and I fix bugs early.


its just that I can see many if not most ****? functions (my own 
included) being truthy and this is very usefull to facilitate  control 
flow.  This, as oposed to always putting error handlers in places 
where the error is only used as a negative reply, for which we can 
supply, IMHO, a reasonable value/standard.