AltME groups: search

We had to do attack the mold in our last apartment repeatedly over 
the course of several months. Nothing we had would keep it away for 
long, so we just sort of wore it down to something that was easy 
to clean

Oh boy. 


First, I *have* been contacted to ask if I could take certain actions, 
but not by RT. RT made me a world master here, which *I* consider 
to be form of moderator (with the main task being to assign and maintain 
accounts), though there is not a definite job description sitting 
on my desk. Now, I am also a regular user in this world, and there 
are definitely conflicts for me WRT those positions.


As I've said before, I enjoy a good chat as much as anyone, and I 
*don't* want to censor people here, but that may be necessary at 
some point, wouldn't you agree? If someone were quite obviously, 
in the opinion of 99.9% of the people here, abusive, rude, offensive, 
etc. should they be allowed to run rampant and ruin this world for 
everyone else? I don't think so; maybe you do.


When I joined the REBOL community, one of the main attractions was 
the high level of mutual respect, the generosity towards newcomers, 
and the complete *lack* of the venom you sometimes see unleashed 
in other language communities. *That* is what kept *me* coming back. 
The more argumentative discussions and personal jibes people see, 
the less likely they are to post, IME, because they don't want to 
be attacked themselves and if that's the tone they often see, it's 
what they will expect. 


When it comes to content, as a world master and a user *I* think 
that *most* channels here *should* be REBOL related. The world is 
called "REBOL", and I think RT created and sponsors it for the REBOL 
community. That's my view; that's how I view the ML as well. There 
are probably at least 20-25 non-REBOL, non-Technical groups here 
now; that's quite a lot IMO. There are times that I would really 
like to clean this world up a bit, and as a user I could, but as 
a world master I don't feel that I can because someone will complain 
that I'm trying to censor or control things here (so if I ever do 
that, get mad at me as a user, not as a world master :-).  


Petr, I'm sorry you feel that I'm trying to limit free speech here, 
or to control anyone's behavior; I made some *suggestions* I thought 
were appropriate. I spent a *lot* of time writing and editing my 
posts in the hope that they weren't too strong, but still got my 
view across. If you think that you should be able to use this world 
for anything you want, personally, I disagree; it's RTs world and 
we are guests in their house. If there is something specific in my 
posts that offended you, please let me know what it was.


As a user, I haven't been around much lately. Mostly my schedule 
is the cause, but maybe it's also because the technical value of 
the world has been diluted (IMO) by noise, so I'm just not as "driven" 
to come here and make time to participate. I'm normally on dial-up, 
so that affects download time, yes. Right now, I'm on a fast connection 
but the noise is still a problem because I have to visit all the 
groups that come up red to see what's new, and if I only have a small 
amount of time to spend, it may all get eaten up just skimming what 
others posted. Also, the more noise there is, and the more we get 
in the habit of talking about non-technical stuff here (again, this 
is all *my* opinion), the more chance there is for it to leak out 
into other groups, and it does. 


The camaraderie comes from the people; the technical value comes 
from the experts  who often focus on that aspect and may stop coming 
if there's too much noise here. When that happens, the value of the 
world is diminished. 


Well, my time is long gone for writing here, but I hope that helps 
clarify my position.

Peter, your announcement at the top of the Announce group is abuse. 
  I did delete the old announcement group because I accidentally 
made a few errant posts.. I looked at the FEW old posts that were 
already there, and seeing that they were all now irrelevant (time 
based), I deleted the group to clean it up.  I then made the single 
post that I had intended to make.


You took it upon yourself to delete the group again.. with my single 
post, and then make accusations towards me (at the top of this group) 
as if i had some kind of alterior motive?  Why did you feel to delete 
my one post?   Shall I cry 'personal abuse'?

one thing about security: i would check that against a directory. 

 if find/match clean-path/file dirize view-root/local ["its my local 
 file, allow more"]

Not bad website, clean and simple.

We plan to clean it up, and write a paper that explains it all, for 
example, you can actually dump all your grpahics, and then replace 
them all.

So our next update is coming along, aside from any features we are 
planning to include in the next build of AltME, we are looking for 
a new top 10 list of features or bugs for an interim release.


Please take some time to think about this before posting, in an attempt 
to keep this post clean and simple.


Even if you have posted to feedback in the past, I'm look for what 
is most important to you.


Also, the Recycle bug is being fixed, but can't be for this interim 
build, since it is part of the new architecture.

Feature Req: 'Clear All'.  If I am away (say two days) from altme.. 
I come back /login only to find all groups highlighted with messages 
since my logoff.  Sometimes, I want to know what happened since I 
left.. however other times I just want to start clean.  So, I think 
that it would be nice to have a button or a pref that allows those 
highlighted groups to be cleared upon logging in.  This way, I can 
be assured that I am looking at new messages only.. not messages 
from 47 hours ago.     John.

I've reinstalled both Windows and Linux on my machine. I'm only able 
to run Altme 1.0.1 on Win (don't ask me why new beta crashes all 
the time on clean installation while it was working without problem 
on old one) and it synced no rooms. On Linux I have no problem with 
latest beta and syncing works without problem. So I spent some nice 
minutes clicking on red rooms (but it's better to have something 
to click on than otherwise :)

I hate PDF scroll method, which is diff than everyone elses.  As 
to AltME, our scolling is taken from the system.  On my system it 
is clean smooth and one line at a time.  I think this may be a system 
issue, and not AltME, but I'm open to proof.

#3737 (call and file! datatype) : same problem on Win2k. The error 
message is right, it's a path problem - but if it works with string!, 
it should work with file!. A workaround :
call clean-path %prog.exe

>> clean-path %//
== %/C/
>> clean-path %///
== %/C/REBOL/
>> clean-path %////
== %/C/REBOL/View/

>> clean-path %//something
== %/C/something

For that matter, I just submitted another rebcode proposal to RAMBO, 
and then noticed some code in the fix section that I wanted to change. 
The submitted code still works, but I would still like to clean it 
up a little. If I had an account on RAMBO, would I be able to fix 
my own submissions?

Please remove tiket 4021, my mistake, I had this in user.r
clean-path: :secure-clean-path

So what I did was create an "anton-user.r" file, which my user.r 
calls *optionally*.
It decides whether to call it based on a command line argument.

So, two different command lines can start rebol "clean" (without 
anton-user.r) or "unclean" (with all my customizations in anton-user.r).

For example, two icons I have:

Rebol/View 1.3.1.3.1   ->  D:\Anton\Dev\Rebol\View\rebview1.3.001.3.1.exe 
-- "do-anton-user?: true"

Rebol/View 1.3.1.3.1 (clean)   ->  D:\Anton\Dev\Rebol\View\rebview1.3.001.3.1.exe

you have also system/options/script in %user.r . That way you can 
make a "raw"-folder.

 if not find/match clean-path system/options/script view-root/public[ 
 my-extra-stuff ]

Im just trying to hide the dll to keep things squeaky clean.. what 
i've done is embed the binary, and I'll write it to a file, when 
I'm finished, Ill just remove it.

Well there's clean, and then there's rubbed raw. Do you really need 
to be this spotless? Would an on-demand cleanup routine do?

my code is very similar to Carl's, most of the additions are just 
to support literate programming and you won't need them. i'm emitting 
clean xhtml (no <font> etc. stuff) so that the look can be 100% configured 
via CSS.

the interface is already ubber clean  :-)  


if I had this on rebol.org update, I think It would make the update 
process even more appealing for potential new users.

If it's that small, it should be possible to do a clean-room development.

I believe in Carl's vision "REBOL is perfect for lightweight distributed 
applications". Users need light-weight responsive gui clients that 
can work both online and offline. The evolution of the Web is moving 
(slowly) in this direction, with AJAX/Flash/JavaFX as examples of 
a more responsive and rich gui clients, BUT it's too complex and 
unreliable. The industry is adding kludge upon kludge to "fix" the 
problems resulting in further complexity and code bloat, but what 
is needed is a clean approach that captures the essence of what made 
the web a phenomal success in the first place - any body could set 
up/develop a web site and they did. Enterprise data centers need 
scalable, reliable, manageable (server) applications that run 24x7 
on commodity hardware ata reasonable price. The user PC's should 
require zero management for the applications, which is the primary 
(only?) attraction of the web ui. Question if the application is 
simple to manage and delivers the functionality the user wants, why 
do they need a fat complex os? As an example my kids get online to 
play games, research homework, etc. and they hate it (so do I) when 
the PC/OS gets in the way. Also, that PC/OS is a major source of 
 trouble with viruses and lack of (simple) control to what my kids 
can access.

IMHO, I don't believe hese companies are capable of developing a 
clean solution, in fact it may not be in their best interest.

Hi RayA and Welcome. 


I am a new to AltMe too. I think you are right about the evolution 
of the web. The Desktop OS has become an application in itself (IMHO). 
It's the focus of so much angst, controversy and complication. (Nailing 
my personal colours to post here: I declare myself a BSD UNIX type. 
I can still install the latest version in much less than 100MB of 
HD space and 32MB ram and 100Mhz CPU. In fact I run it on an old 
Toshiba laptop with that spec and get real work done)


I think, in principle, DOS was my idea of a good OS (I know, I know...) 
It was small, fast a stable. Yes - lockups were common when pushed, 
but I found it was the application that crashed rather than DOS itself. 
Ok. back in the world of the 21st Century, an OS need many many times 
the resources of DOS just to get itself booted. But basically, all 
I want from the OS is to let the applications get on with the job 
in hand.


What attracts me to Rebol is that it is clean and lightweight. Designed 
by a man who I respect as a Computer Scientist. (And, of course, 
the Rebol community, which collectively one might say is a "killer 
app" too). It's very productive and I'm building internal information 
systems with it.  I've got a few ideas to build my own apps outside 
of work, that is an exciting prospect for the future. 


I keep trying other frameworks/languges and over the last six years 
or so I've lost the "Rebol way" and strayed from the one true path! 
I do find myself coming back to Rebol as I run into more library 
conflict/dependency/blot features of some of the other languages 
I used. Maybe I'm getting impatient of complicated technology now 
I'm older. I just get tired of having to search the internet for 
the latest whatever.so.1 lib, or what have you. I'm making a general 
point here BTW - I know there are some very good language implimentations 
out there.


I don't know what the next killer app will be, but I do think there 
is a place for a machine "Powered by REBOL" which boots in a few 
seconds, lets me communicate, write view images, multimedia, code 
my own Rebol apps from a set of built in services, oh and the battery 
lasts for days - not hours!
It would have to display HTML too (legacy web :-))


So there you go, a bit of a rant from an old geezer technologist 
. Now where's me 8" floppies I need to boot that PDP-11?

Has clean-script been updated for the new version of Core?

Anton, Andrew had defined white space patterns in his patterns.r 
script which seems usable then you can use [ ws* "house" ws*] or 
other combinations as needed without underscore.  Andrew's solution 
for this and a lot of other things have given me some good mileage 
over the past few years.   WS*: [some WS]   and WS?: [any WS].   
 It makes for clean parse scripts clear once you adopt it.

simple and clean, good idea!

yeah i would use a clean dialect , cause i have many many rules of 
this type

I am not sure about protocol handlers either ... I start to not understand, 
what is rebol - it is not language, nor it is stand-alon platform 
... I want clean design ... Base + SDK is the answer imo ...

If you do reverse engineering of a protocol in a clean lab environment. 
Then you are protected.

define clean-lab environment, please? Yes, I tried to use Ethereal 
but then found Volkers link above, which was enough to understand 
how it works and to eventually implement it ...

If you do a clean-lab implementation your code doesn't need to be 
GPL(ed).

because it is clean 5.0.18 install and second, the field size is 
41 bytes, starting with asterisk ...

Control-Alt-Delete is also OK, although you have to use the upper 
delete key on the keyboard. This is a clean shutdown and reboot

Really slow, which is odd because the target is a 'clean' WinXP install, 
where my old, upgraded-from-WinME XP install was much faster.  Anyway, 
inappropriate for the Linux group, I know.

i have another partition with a clean windows install, to use for 
repair opeartions on ntfs.

Well yess this 1.1.29 'new' clean installation is running fine here 
too.. the last installation i did in the old 0.42 altme directory..so 
that was realy messy..

request-file: func [

    {Requests a file using a popup list of files and directories.} 
    /title "Change heading on request." 
    title-line "Title line of request" 
    button-text "Button text for selection" 
    /file name "Default file name or block of file names" 
    /filter filt "Filter or block of filters" 
    /keep "Keep previous settings and results" 
    /only "Return only a single file, not a block." 
    /path "Return absolute path followed by relative files." 
    /save "Request file for saving, otherwise loading." 
    /local where data filt-names filt-values
][
    if none? out start-out 
    either file [

        either block? name [picked: copy name] [picked: reduce [to-file name]]
    ] [
        if not keep [picked: copy []]
    ] 
    if none? picked [picked: copy []] 
    if file: picked/1 [where: first split-path file] 
    while [not tail? picked] [
        set [name file] split-path first picked 
        either name <> where [remove picked] [
            change picked file 
            picked: next picked
        ]
    ] 
    picked: head picked 
    if any [not where not exists? where] [where: clean-path %.] 
    if not keep [
        fp/data: head fp/data 
        so/data: head so/data 
        si: 1
    ] 
    either filter [
        filters: either block? filt [filt] [reduce [filt]]
    ] [if any [not keep not block? filters] [pick-filter]] 
    ff/text: form filters 
    tt/text: either title [copy title-line] ["Select a File:"] 
    ob/text: either title [copy button-text] ["Select"] 
    if all [
        error? done: try [
            filt-names: copy head fp/data 
            filt-values: copy filter-list 
            either filter [
                insert head filt-names "Custom" 
                insert/only filt-values filters
            ] [
                filt-names: at filt-names index? fp/data
            ] 
            done: local-request-file data: reduce 

            [tt/text ob/text clean-path where picked filt-names filt-values found? 
            any [only] found? any [save]] 
            if done [
                dir-path: data/3 
                picked: data/4 

                if not filter [fp/data: at head fp/data index? data/5]
            ] 
            done
        ] 
        (get in disarm done 'code) = 328
    ] [
        done: false 
        read-dir/full either where [where] [dir-path] 
        show-pick 
        inform out 
        unfocus
    ] 
    if error? done [done] 
    if all [done picked any [path not empty? picked]] [
        either path [
            done: insert copy picked copy dir-path 
            either only [done/1] [head done]
        ] [
            foreach file picked [insert file dir-path] 
            either only [picked/1] [picked]
        ]
    ]
]

request-file: func [

    {Requests a file using a popup list of files and directories.}
    /title "Change heading on request."
    title-line "Title line of request"
    button-text "Button text for selection"
    /file name "Default file name or block of file names"
    /filter filt "Filter or block of filters"
    /keep "Keep previous settings and results"
    /only "Return only a single file, not a block."
    /path "Return absolute path followed by relative files."
    /local where
][
    if none? out start-out
    done: false
    either file [

        either block? name [picked: copy name] [picked: reduce [to-file name]]
    ] [
        if not keep [picked: copy []]
    ]
    if none? picked [picked: copy []]
    if file: picked/1 [where: first split-path file]
    while [not tail? picked] [
        set [name file] split-path first picked
        either name <> where [remove picked] [
            change picked file
            picked: next picked
        ]
    ]
    picked: head picked
    if any [not where not exists? where] [where: clean-path %.]
    if not keep [
        fp/data: head fp/data
        so/data: head so/data
        si: 1
    ]
    either filter [
        filters: either block? filt [filt] [reduce [filt]]
    ] [if any [not keep not block? filters] [pick-filter]]
    ff/text: form filters
    tt/text: either title [copy title-line] ["Select a File:"]
    ob/texts/1: either title [copy button-text] ["Select"]
    read-dir/full either where [where] [dir-path]
    show-pick
    inform out
    unfocus
    if all [done picked any [path not empty? picked]] [
        either path [
            done: insert copy picked copy dir-path
            either only [done/1] [head done]
        ] [
            foreach file picked [insert file dir-path]
            either only [picked/1] [picked]
        ]
    ]
]

I am running XP on my local computer. Out web host's server is running 
Red Hat Linux.


Which version of core should I use on the host server to run the 
cgi scripts?


If I download the proper Linux core interpreter to my  XP computer, 
and uncompress it using WinZip, will it be corrupted by XP?  How 
do I get a clean version of core to the Linux server?

Thanks, Graham, you hit the right spot. Like you say in your article, 
"Read/Custom sets the port to lines modes, and there is no clean 
way to change this to binary for binary uploads". But that's exactly 
what I need. Which script by Oldes are you referring to? Where can 
I find it? Are you saying that his is doing the job?

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Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:58:29 +0200 (CEST)
From: Rodrigue <[you-:-me-:-com]>
Subject: Re: Erreur lors de l'enregistrement d'une news
To: Admin Rebol <[me-:-you-:-com]>
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Salut Fabrice,
 
Peux tu me redire sous quel format je dois envoyer les photos

Rodrigue

Admin Rebol <[me-:-you-:-com]> wrote:
Bonjour Rodrigue,

>Salut Fabrice,

>contrairement à ce que je t'expliquais hier soir, les news ne s'enregistrent 
pas.
>voilà le message d'erreur : 

Peux-tu m'envoyer ce que tu veux mettre en ligne par @ ?

Je vérifierais directement avec tes données car il n'y a pas de problème 
de mon côté pour ajouter les news.

Merci.

-- 
Fabrice

		
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<DIV>Salut Fabrice,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV>Peux tu me redire sous quel format je dois envoyer les photos<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Rodrigue</DIV>

<DIV><BR><B><I>Admin Rebol &lt;[me-:-you-:-com]&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Bonjour Rodrigue,<BR><BR>&gt;Salut 
Fabrice,<BR>&gt;contrairement à ce que je t'expliquais hier soir, 
les news ne s'enregistrent pas.<BR>&gt;voilà le message d'erreur 
: <BR><BR>Peux-tu m'envoyer ce que tu veux mettre en ligne par @ 
?<BR>Je vérifierais directement avec tes données car il n'y a pas 
de problème de mon côté pour ajouter les news.<BR><BR>Merci.<BR><BR>-- 
<BR>Fabrice<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>
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Sunanda - there is already virtual keyboard available, but you need 
clean desk for it ... dunno if it is usable at all, but fits nicely 
PDAs etc. - it is projection technology ...

about time.  It's a nightmare trying to clean spyware off ....

Sorry for the delay in getting the JSON script updated Will. There 
were some other changes in the spec that I decided to clean up, so 
it passes all their tests, except one. Test #18 checks the depth 
limit on arrays. I guess they can't be deeper than 19 levels. Our 
REBOL version doesn't enforce that.

I used dojo a litle a whwile ago, I found the event handling very 
clean. I've read that dojo is stronger for single page apps that 
many of the other frameworks.

It seems that somebody deleted the old Announce group.


Terry had posted three or four announcements. Next time I looked 
there was a single announcement from Terry, all the old announcements 
were gone.

I've created this new clean Announce group.

You can download a copy from here:  http://www.sonic.net/~amicom/bin/clean-drive.exe

The only thing I ask is that if you use it and find a data recovery 
utility that can recover any of the data, please let me know.  I'd 
like to know what parameters you used to clean the drive, what utility 
you used to recover the data, and the condition of the recovered 
data.

(my guess, is that internally it is doing something like - mixing 
rebol and c - read/binary clean-path argv[0])

Lots of misplaced Items though...got to clean it up I guessss

if you include something, zou have it in memory when you start your 
app. So make sure to clean it after boot.

jpeg looks clean and displays proper everywhere else

Louis: because of the clean seperation between display engine and 
widgets, it's ready now. What's missing is a good widget set to make 
it *usefull*. ;)

Yeah, that's more like it.  But it can be used to provide simple, 
clean OS independant applications too...

tested 'request-file - spotted a bug:

when one uses a filename without a path in it, it causes an error.

ie: %my-file.r, split-path gives [%./ %my-file.r], the path isn't 
cleaned, local-request-file don't like "./" -> error
an easy fix is to uses 'clean-path before 'split-path: 
if file [
    set [path file] split-path clean-path path
]

that said, 'request-file works well (tested all /options,) and is 
a lot cleaner and smaller that the VID version :-)

The menu widget is over 500 lines and a bit of a global name-space 
polluter. My first-cut clean of it is here: http://www.dobeash.com/files/menu.r


You'll notice that "lefted" items and shadow-drop images have already 
been cut ... but a lot more has to come out.

shadwolf: Once you've settled on the "best" SVG generation tool to 
use (with feedback from folks here), then create a simple SVG icon 
(a shaded "next" arrow for instance) and post a link to the file. 
I'll have a look at the underlying SVG code it generates and we'll 
see if it's clean enough to use easily. We can then start creating 
more complex icons and improving the SVG renderer as we go. My hope 
is that we will end up with a nice set of REBOL / RebGUI SVG icons 
that are free of any licence / distribution issues.

How does I detect a close event in the main window so I can do a 
clean up ?

Well, I just had a quick look. It seems to be clean code, well organised. 
Perhaps I can find some time to test it out myself in a few days.

but if it keeps happening .. you might want to see how clean your 
power is .. and invest in surge protectors

Ashley, can you explain in a little more detail how your setup works 
for you?

 Sure. I run a home office with two studies. Each has a Mac mini (plus 
 Cinema display) for day-to-day work. My study also has a TabletPC 
 connected to a 1280x1024 VGA LCD display. I use this for REBOL development 
 and demos away from home.


The iBook is located in the other study and is used by my better 
half when running Windows software related to our finance company 
(CRM/Sales software distributed via the professional body we belong 
to, no Mac or Linux option available). We also use the iBook when 
showing non-IT people stuff (e.g. a spreadsheet showing how much 
their portfolio could be worth if they geared it) and when attending 
training sessions.


The ADSL modem has an ethernet connection to Airport express, which 
in turn has the MFC plugged into its USB slot. The Mac's pick up 
the printer automatically, the TabletPC runs Bonjour and does the 
same. Everything, including the TabletPC, detected the Network without 
issue. It really has been as simple as, 1) Unpack, 2) Plug-in, 3) 
Use. I've also noticed that WinXP running on the iBook is a lot faster/smoother 
than on the TabletPC as it installs 'clean' (i.e. piggy-backs off 
the Mac's Network and Hardware support).


Large screens are a must if you write and or read a lot of documents. 
A 1920x1200 screen lets you do a slideshow on a PDF document and 
read the pages side-by-side. On wide screens I always have the task-bar/dock 
on the right to maximize the vertical display area.

FFFE is a "byte order mark" -- something that has been slipped in 
at the beginning of the file to indicate the file is in UTF-16, little 
endian format....If it started FEFF you'd have to extract all the 
other bytes. 

Looks like the original file (or whatever did the EBCDIC to UTF-16 
conversion on the AS400)  is using A0A0 to mean newline. You may 
need to clean those up by hand:

But I can see in the word-open-save.r demo I have done this:

	do/args %../COMLib.r [
		...

  word_doc: GetObject [word_obj ".Documents.Open(%s)" to-local-file 
  clean-path %demos/word-open.doc]

re: Google Calendar:  Chris Sherman, executive editor of Search Engine 
Watch.com. "The interface is classic Google--clean, crisp and relatively 
uncluttered.... The one down side to the program is you have to be 
online when you use it"

he should be careful with windows that can be flipped over and are 
hinged at the center of the frame. I have those in my livingroom. 
When opened at a certain angle, the reflection in the glass is  directed 
towards the roof. Sometimes a bird would get "caught" in the reflection 
while sitting on the roof and start attacking the window glass repeatedly. 
It looks really funny, but you have to clean up the mess afterwards: 
I suppose repeatedly banging their head against the window glass 
every 2 seconds for 10 minutes makes for a bad stomach...

IBM, in that regard, even if they sold their PC business, has much 
more broader aproach ...

Pekr, I will try to answer from a marketing perspective.


Your statement suggest that a company with a broad based approach 
(diversified) in various markets is better than one with a narrow, 
focused approach.


My own study of companies suggest otherwise. I believe General Electric 
is one such case study. Throughout the 80s, they have acquired many 
companies across many industries, today... they have sell off a lot 
of the units that they have acquired.


Same goes with IBM. IBM is divesting their assets in a suitable time 
frame. They still have a 'broader approach' because of legacy baggages 
that they have not discard.


In fact, most companies that leads in their market segment do so 
because they are focused (during that time). SUN was focused on UNIX 
; Apollo did not.

MS was focused on PC; IBM says from mainframe to midrange to workstation 
to home PC....ironically MS is losing focus (do you think MS will 
win in the various new markets?)


It is not whether IBM has a broader approach that matters; it is 
about how fast IBM can reduce the excess baggages that it has acquired 
throughout the years.


SUN, in my opinion, is more focused than IBM now. At least , to me.... 
they own the 'datacenter' mindshare.


Corporates strategies facinates me. 2 of the most (fatal) management 
theories :

- diversifcation; why diversify when your core market is fragmenting...shouldn't 
you focus on one fragments instead? 

- convergence; eg. AOL-Netscape-TimeWarner...why do companies believe 
that different categories of business are coming together and not 
dividing further?


I, too make the mistakes above...and needs to clean up my 'business 
wardrobe'.

I like Rebol syntax. I even started to get into creating a clone. 
But I like Scheme semantics much more. So I side with clean semantics 
over pretty syntax.

I am know the shortcoming of scheme syntax, but I put with them in 
favor of having access to the source code, the ability to have clean 
semantics, the ability to have first-class closure, the hability 
of adding tasking with first-class continuations, and the ability 
of creating any syntax for my dialect using macros. Besides of having 
functional programming style that shields me from side effect and 
having to keep state or context in my head. For me those are more 
important than having a "nice syntax".

Bad design, I guess. but you have to remember that AJAX is a huge 
hack on top of a non-persistent protocol. it's by definition harder 
to do these things, than with a clean implementation like REBOL/Services.

a clean way to make heat

One strange bug remains. Occasionally %demo.r will fail (typically 
selecting rows from Items) due to garbage characters that somehow 
get inserted. I have reduced the problem down to this script:

REBOL []

unless value? 'SQLite [do %sqlite.r]

repeat cnt 10 [
	prin ["^/Run" cnt "..."]
	;	Clean up from previous runs
	error? try [delete %test.db]
	error? try [delete %test.db-journal]
	;	Create Items (1000 rows) records
	prin " create ..."
	CONNECT/flat/create %test.db
	SQL "create table t (c1,c2,c3,c4,c5)"
	prin " insert ..."
	SQL "begin"
;	loop 1000 [
	repeat z 10000 [

;		SQL reduce ["insert into t values (?,?,?,?,?)" 1 "A 1" $1 1 $1 
* 1]

  SQL reduce ["insert into t values (?,?,?,?,?)" 1 reform ["A" 1] $1 
  1 $1 * 1]
	]
	SQL "commit"
	prin " select ..."
	SQL "select * from t"
	DISCONNECT
]

quit


Running the script should cause a failure like the following within 
the first couple of runs:


Run 1 ... create ... insert ... select ...** Syntax Error: Invalid 
tag -- <C
** Near: (line 1) À<C"
>> sqlite/direct?: true
== true
>> sql "select * from t where c2 like '%<%'"
== [1 {À<C^B"} "$1.00" 1 "$1.00"]


Changing the repeat to a loop seems to shift the error, often (but 
not always) making it take more runs to materialize. Replacing the 
reform with a string will often (but not always) allow all runs to 
complete successfully. Changing the number or order of INSERTed values 
also seems to shift the error. I'm not sure whether this is a REBOL 
or SQLite library error, but any help in tracking it down would be 
greatly appreciated.

and in such a case, the func must release any reference to blk or 
else the GC cannot clean it up.

maybe a new parameter  ( /clean /free /trash ?) to allow /local words 
to be reset on entry AND/OR exit would be cool, to help with memory 
leaks, especially on loops , recursive code, and contexts... a lot 
of ram can be locked, just cause there is a reference to data within 
a function body local word.

I thought about this subject yesterday night and yeah, it would be 
nice to be able to do "anything and everything" in Rebol and PS does 
offer that. Besides the kind of charts that Graham showed, things 
like wrapping/flowing text around graphic images would be useful. 
Of course at some point I would most likely convert it to pdf through 
Distiller. 

I totally agree that good clean output is essential. My last programming 
foray in PS was some 16 years ago. At that time it was the only way 
to go for me. I suppose that alone shows the staying power of PS.

geomol, yeah I think we should keep it "under wraps" so far, let 
people play with it with a huge disclaimer that this is alpha code 
which may change in the future. I think the addition is useful, but 
my implementation is not clean. I also added support for ISOLatin1 
so we can print Danish letters.

Further, let's say he decides to clean out his computer. If he removes 
REBOL 1.3.2, seeing that it is an "old" version, he will inveitably 
break the web sites that rely on 1.3.2.

I agree with Maxim as well, there needs to be UI somewhere to stop 
automatic downloads.


With that said, is it possible to clean this whole thing up and reduce 
it to one place where you either have what you need or you don't.


Using Adobe Acrobat as an example, they have one plug-in interface.

When you download stuff, it asks you if you want any of the other 
modules Adobe has for you.  In fact a close friend of mine created 
one of those modules (Atmosphere), which is funny that Adobe's interface 
even asks if you want this, since almost no one know what Atmosphere 
is.


So a single consistent dialogue should pop up with something like 
this:

You have:

Rebol command 1.3 for OSX
Rebol view 3.0 for OSX

New modules that are available:    

[_] Rebol view 3.0 for OSX
[_] VID2 interface Alpha for OSX


[X] Always ask before downloading

[Skip] [Download all now]

Q: go, find whatever website flash plug-in part of website, press 
right mouse - you will see menu for controlling flash script itself 
... that is what I am talking about -

A: That is a choice of the developers.  The fact that people leave 
it as "default"


Q: Reichart - and you imo overestimate Flash's importance - they 
can be milti-whatever company, yet I would have to see some noticed 
real-life app someone uses in corporate sphere :-)


A: "I" over estimate Flash?  Uh, er….you mean like how Yahoo over 
estimated Flickr (front end is Flash), and bought them?  


Or, while you might not like it, if you are looking at an animated 
ad on the web, there is a good chance it is Flash.  That would be 
a 500 billion dollar industry that is using Flash as their delivery 
mechanism.  That is the app, animated content with games and click 
through.


And if you use T-Mobile, then you are using Flash.  Yup, it "is" 
the interface for their cellphone content provider.



Pekr, I'm not a fan of Flash, or Macromedia…I'm simply stating that 
Rebol should consider Flash's model as a pathway to a clean install 
and plug-in interface.

So, let's write up an overview of what is needed "exactly" to have 
a clean interface for a plug-in.  this needs to be done for 4 browsers 
(IMO): IE, FF, Safari, Opera (in that order).

See…this is where we need a wiki…like a Qwiki.

In the meantime, if you have any other crucial breaking bugs, please 
post them. (also, regarding stability: please try the plugin on a 
fresh, clean system first, because old plugin versions can sometimes 
mess things up).

Stability: Has anyone found bugs with a clean install of the plugin, 
besides the Win2k bug?

it looks very clean, i think i ll use it for my next interfaces

on my HD... some  look and feel issues have kept me from releasing 
it.  I need to clean it up and that takes time... for my part I don't 
mind the few display quirks for my apps...

then each member (including the one you modified the pipe with ! 
:-)  can then again, clean it up for its own use.

Blood v0.1.1 released to rebol.org.


the first ever public demo of how to use liquid.  The application 
itself is very simple for now, but the code is pretty clean, has 
a lot of comments to explain a lot of what is going on.

pipes and containers are like storage.  their value is to be used 
as-is.  if you wanted to clean ANOTHER plug to a color, your code 
is correct

The "thin layer" I was talking about doesn't do much more than that, 
but it's done in a clean and handy way, and once for all.

Chris, sorry to not have chimed in before, I have a quite modified 
cheyenne that is in production for some time, only I have little 
time to help as I'm evely under pressur, somu guys came up with joomla 
in the company I work for, so it's either me coding from 0 or them 
assempling  jomla modules.. I could clean it up and send u a copy 
but this will be obsoleted by Dockimbel next version. it has rewrite 
rules and a slightly modified mysql protocol and a hihly modified 
mysql wrapper  to support stored procedures and getting data easly. 
like database: mysq://localhost/dbName db-open value: db-get 'table 
'column [{id=?} variable ] .

The current clean way to extend Cheyenne is to write a mod_xyz module. 
The module specifications are documented in Cheyenne/docs, and your 
have several examples in Cheyenne/mods. I can provide some additionnal 
explainations through this altme channel if needed.

Well.. it's still looking really great.. love the module methods.. 
very clean.
Im going to deciated 2-3 hours a day building mods ;)

If you close Cheyenne by using the [x] console gadget, a ghost image 
remains in the systray (disappears if you pass you mouse over), f 
you stop your Cheyenne session by using the systray menu, it will 
clean it properly.

It's not a short paste...
[HTTPd] ================== NEW REQUEST ==================

                                                         [HTTPd] Request Line=>GET /testapp/ HTTP/1.1

                                                                                                     [HTTPd] Request Headers=>
Host: localhost:8080

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 
Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1)

Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive


[HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-alias )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                              [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-fastcgi )
   [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-static )

                                                    [HTTPd] Phase access-check done ( mod-action )

                                                                                                  [HTTPd] Phase set-mime-type done ( mod-action )
    [HTTPd] Phase make-response done ( mod-rsp )

                                                [HTTPd] Response=>

                                                                  HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily
Server: Cheyenne/0.9.11
Connection: close
Location: /testapp/login.rsp


[HTTPd] Phase logging done ( mod-static )

                                         [HTTPd] Phase clean-up done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                [HTTPd] Connection closed

[HTTPd] ================== NEW REQUEST ==================        
                                        /

                                                         [HTTPd] Request Line=>GET /testapp/login.rsp HTTP/1.1

                                                                                                              [HTTPd] Request Headers=>
Host: localhost:8080

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 
Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1)

Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive


[HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-alias )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                              [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-fastcgi )
   [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-static )

                                                    [HTTPd] Phase access-check done ( mod-action )

                                                                                                  [HTTPd] Phase set-mime-type done ( mod-action )
    [HTTPd] Phase make-response done ( mod-rsp )
[HTTPd] Response=>
                  HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Cheyenne/0.9.11
Content-Length: 482
Content-Type: text/html
Connection: Keep-Alive

Set-Cookie: RSPSID=EISPOMAZTPDFKVIWJAFONZDE; expires=Sat, 02 Jun 
2007 11:54:30 GMT; path=/testapp; HttpOnly
Pragma: no-cache
Cache-Control: no-cache, must-revalidate
Expires: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT


[HTTPd] Phase logging done ( mod-static )

                                         [HTTPd] Phase clean-up done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                [HTTPd] Phase task-done done ( mod-rsp )

[HTTPd] ================== NEW REQUEST ==================        
                                                       \

                                                         [HTTPd] Request Line=>POST /testapp/login.rsp HTTP/1.1

                                                                                                               [HTTPd] Request Headers=>
Host: localhost:8080

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 
Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1)

Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive
Referer: http://localhost:8080/testapp/login.rsp
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
Content-Length: 23


[HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-alias )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                              [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-fastcgi )
   [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-static )

                                                    [HTTPd] Posted data=>login=test&pass=letmein

                                                                                                [HTTPd] Phase access-check done ( mod-action )
 [HTTPd] Phase set-mime-type done ( mod-action )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase make-response done ( mod-rsp )
[HTTPd] Response=>
                  HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Server: Cheyenne/0.9.11
Connection: close
Location: /testapp/

Set-Cookie: RSPSID=YDADUIONKJPHLFBWEDZDFCXN; expires=Sat, 02 Jun 
2007 11:54:37 GMT; path=/testapp; HttpOnly


[HTTPd] Phase logging done ( mod-static )

                                         [HTTPd] Phase clean-up done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                [HTTPd] Phase task-done done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                                                        [HTTPd] Connection closed
    [HTTPd] ================== NEW REQUEST ==================

                                                             [HTTPd] Request Line=>GET /testapp/ HTTP/1.1

                                                                                                         [HTTPd] Request Headers=>
Host: localhost:8080

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 
Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1)

Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive
Referer: http://localhost:8080/testapp/login.rsp


[HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-alias )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                              [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-fastcgi )
   [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-static )

                                                    [HTTPd] Phase access-check done ( mod-action )

                                                                                                  [HTTPd] Phase set-mime-type done ( mod-action )
    [HTTPd] Phase make-response done ( mod-rsp )

                                                [HTTPd] Response=>

                                                                  HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily
Server: Cheyenne/0.9.11
Connection: close
Location: /testapp/login.rsp


[HTTPd] Phase logging done ( mod-static )

                                         [HTTPd] Phase clean-up done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                [HTTPd] Connection closed

                                                                                                         [HTTPd] ================== NEW REQUEST ==================

                     [HTTPd] Request Line=>GET /testapp/login.rsp HTTP/1.1

                                                                          [HTTPd] Request Headers=>
Host: localhost:8080

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070310 
Iceweasel/2.0.0.3 (Debian-2.0.0.3-1)

Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive
Referer: http://localhost:8080/testapp/login.rsp


[HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-alias )

                                                [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                              [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-fastcgi )
   [HTTPd] Phase url-to-filename done ( mod-static )

                                                    [HTTPd] Phase access-check done ( mod-action )

                                                                                                  [HTTPd] Phase set-mime-type done ( mod-action )
    [HTTPd] Phase make-response done ( mod-rsp )

                                                [HTTPd] Response=>

                                                                  HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Cheyenne/0.9.11
Content-Length: 482
Content-Type: text/html
Connection: Keep-Alive

Set-Cookie: RSPSID=RTJSUKAVYBNOLCJCJBSTNUHP; expires=Sat, 02 Jun 
2007 11:54:37 GMT; path=/testapp; HttpOnly
Pragma: no-cache
Cache-Control: no-cache, must-revalidate
Expires: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 16:00:00 GMT


[HTTPd] Phase logging done ( mod-static )

                                         [HTTPd] Phase clean-up done ( mod-rsp )

                                                                                [HTTPd] Phase task-done done ( mod-rsp )

speaking of which... i need to clean up rambo, haven't done so in 
two days.

The include2 api looks pretty clean and understandable.

I sometimes use a few HTML tags for CureCode tickets like : <B>, 
<U>, <I> and <A>, but not much more. Having to type HTML code inside 
text areas is not a clean method, that's why I proposed an integrated 
WYSIWYG editor. But it seems not adequate to R3 users. I might add 
it as an option for our customers in a future CureCode version, thought.

Yes Steeve and clean up the place - lol

rewritting clean code is always obvious!