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World: r4wp

[!REBOL3] General discussion about REBOL 3

BrianH
28-Feb-2013
[1198]
The business model incompatibility was the only criticism I had - 
the product looks good, with a lot we could learn from and possibly 
do better. I'm not a marketing guy though, just a social analyst, 
so I can't help on the message.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1199x3]
If I can make some money teaching REBOL lessons, there may be an 
income model for me to pursue.
I've been doing some work to clarify the potential markets.  Just 
doing it part time now, but I think there's real potential.
Kids, Non-Programmers, Entrepreneurs, other education markets - a 
lot of the same covered by Livecode, actually.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1202]
I think eduction is a great market for REBOL.  Net Logo actually 
did well in education.  If Education is the goal a great IDE is the 
place to start.  Something like a high quality layout.r or AmigaVision.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1203x3]
I'd support that.
I personally don't think it's necessary.  I want to keep REBOL as 
light as possible.
But tools that make it even easier, without bloat - that could only 
help.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1206]
The IDE would be an App that could even be sold.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1207x3]
There you go - a potential income model.
We need more entrepreneurs in this community.
And maybe 10-20 more gurus.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1210x2]
Hypercard worked because it had a very simple IDE approach.  Power 
users became proficient at scripting and teachers shared their cards.
The approach needs to provide tools so easy you can layout an app 
as easily as making a powerpoint presentation, but with the power 
underneath to do absolutely anything.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1212x2]
I'd be willing to bet I could net $100000 next year teaching REBOL, 
no matter what happens with the language and tools.  Just using them 
as they stand.
I already know I can sell the benefits.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1214x3]
In a classroom, imagine if the "powerpoint" allowed students to connect 
their smart phones to the presentation and control aspects of a weather 
simulation, or control a point on a Cartesian coordinate plane.  
The trick is to make this so easy to do that teachers can do it like 
they make power points.
Some teachers will want to do more and they will begin to learn how 
to write scripts.
Styles like a Cartesian plane could be added as someone makes them. 
 This is how hypercard became so popular.  People used hypercard 
who never made a card of thier own.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1217]
That's analagous to using a dialect.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1218x2]
With smartboards in most classrooms, the possibilities are really 
astounding.
Yes it is.  Now we're getting a bit technical in a learning sciences 
sense.  One of the things that makes a classroom such a rich learning 
environment is the presence of resources that mediate learning. They 
provide a medium through which learning activities can take place.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1220]
I think a little funding would go a long, long way towards bringing 
REBOL back up to speed, and back into a relevant and competitive 
position.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1221x4]
Chalkboards, textbooks, paper and pencil, etc. are all technologies 
that can mediate learning.
Spreadsheets, calculators, and lab equipment have been used effectively.
Powerpoint is one of those things that really doesn't do much mediating 
because it lacks interaction.  All it needs is a REBOL back end to 
connect the students and make it interactive, especially if it can 
also be used in small groups.
Yet everybody uses it.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1225]
More of this sort of discussion needs to take place in this community. 
 So much of the past few years here has been dominated by quibling 
about language details, instead of business potential.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1226x2]
The key to all successful mediation seems to be interactivity, the 
ability to "relate" through the medium.
REBOL provides a NATURAL LANGUAGE medium. We just need some tools 
to leverage it.  Microsoft has Office.  Maybe REBOL needs Classroom.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1228x2]
Yes, and a REBOL back end would make the next "tougher" layer easier 
to dig into.
REBOL can be as high level as needed - more so than *any other language.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1230]
There would be room for an "Algebra dialect"
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1231]
The livecode guys are working towards understanding the "natural 
language" idea, but they're a long way from achieving what Carl already 
accomplished with REBOL.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1232]
Like Hypercard, the App becomes a "window" into the language.  AltME 
has this potential, Presenter.r had this potential, Layout.r has 
this potential.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1233]
VID and other similar dialects had the greatest potential.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1234x2]
The kicker would be quality formative assessment tools that would 
give teachers and students feedback on how they are doing.
But the Apps the make the language accessible were never made.  I 
have had long discussions about this before at RT.
james_nak
28-Feb-2013
[1236]
Scot and Nick, Rebol has been my secret weapon. Despite trying to 
get others to look at it.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1237]
I think that could be the case for many more people.
james_nak
28-Feb-2013
[1238]
And I with you Scot on wanting an IOS version for precisely for the 
ed market.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1239x3]
I don't think much has to change.  REBOL just needs to be updated, 
the look modernized, and ALL the modern platforms supported.
It's original purpose and benefits are still totally values.
values -> valid
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1242]
I had funding for an ISP business model for RT, not a direction they 
wanted to go.  I also successfuly pitched the Internet Operating 
System Idea to a major ISP, again RT wanted to go in a different 
direction.  I have discussed the Classroom idea before but never 
been able to pitch it.
BrianH
28-Feb-2013
[1243]
Man, I envy the education market. I wish I could work in it :-/
james_nak
28-Feb-2013
[1244]
BrianH, you would and should be a god there!
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1245]
RT made terrible marketing and business decisions.  There is absolutely 
no reason why REBOL shouldn't be a big success.  RT just didn't make 
it happen.
Scot
28-Feb-2013
[1246]
I could be in a position quite soon to revive discussions about Classroom. 
 Local WiFi distributed network.
NickA
28-Feb-2013
[1247]
Now that it's open source, anyone can pick it up.  Personally, I 
think Doc has all the right ideas with Red.