World: r4wp

I remember there being a spreadsheet expression evaluator that made 
it a point to have a small enough number of operations in its bytecode 
that it could fit two operations per byte. That means that with cache 
issues taken into account, its code was drastically faster than fully 
compiled code. The interpreter fit entirely in the instruction cache 
of a 486, and the bytecode was much smaller than regular native instructions, 
so the bytecode could be pushed into the CPU faster. This kind of 
a thing is even more of an issue now, with CPUs that are many times 
more faster than the memory busses, and even bigger caches.

On Mandelbrot with 50'000 iterations instead of the standard 1000, 
Red/System is 80 times faster than R3

R3 is obviously not designed with that kind of interpreter though, 
and isn't even bytecode compiled. That is more a trick for rebcode 
:)

GPU shader languages often use that trick though.

If anyone wants to help Red and thinks he can't start programming 
yet, please give it a presence here under Tested on RPi:

http://elinux.org/RPi_Programming

I have to wait to start programming my Raspberry Pi until I actually 
get it from Sinterklaas. After that I can try to test Red on it. 
I watched your presentation on programming in Red on the Raspberry 
Pi. No Syllable yet? WHat Linux did you use on the Rasp again Kaj?

Ah, so you volunteer for editing the wiki :-)

I said it in the video: Raspian, Arch Linux, and my preferred Bodhi 
Linux (based on Raspian)

Raspbian, that is

RISC OS runs best, though, but no Red

Syllable would have to be ported to ARM, which is a lot of work

Possible to port Red to RISC OS too? Or a lot of work too %Y\ ?

I could contribute to the wiki (which one are we talking about here?) 

Now I have my 10x10 checkers game in Version 1.0.0 released I have 
some time to spend on the script Doc asked for. Can the specifications 
be reposted please?

I have just uploaded a basic script to generate Red/System API docs 
to Github. It could do with a lot of polishing, perhaps you could 
take a look?

Red/System API Docs ... Just what I need, Thanks, Peter. :-)

I would like to report a bug in red-system. I would prefer not to 
register myself anywhere. Which is the simplest way ?

Arnold, I'm talking about the RPi wiki I linked above

Added to the favorites!

Marco, you can report it here, and someone will then re-post it in 
the bugtracker on github.

red-system question:
How can I create a simple array of constants?

That's a bit tricky. There's no explicit support for specifying that

You can write such a list in the arguments of a function, so you 
can make a constructor function that takes the constants and delivers 
the array

Actually, when you use a typed constructor function, you already 
get access to the arguments array, but it's an array of stuct!s of 
type typed-value!

If you can use the array in that form, you can use that trick, but 
you have to stay within the function because the array is on the 
stack

I have some design notes for supporting literal arrays of scalar 
values (integers, bytes, floats, booleans), but as we haven't had 
the need for them in Red construction so far, I have not implemented 
such support yet.

I am trying to write a test red-system program but it is a pain:

I write it in my editor, then open a Rebol console and do change-dir... 
do/args ... then:

If I open a window console and run the program I can not compile 
it anymore (it is locked by the console?), and if I try to run it 
in Rebol with call/console ... it hangs. Which is the right method?

Are you compiling the same program again while it is already running?

No, but now I see that I must wait some seconds before a new compilation.

On which platform are you?

win 7. Acer Aspire 2.0 Ghz

If I open a window console and run the program I can not compile 
it anymore (it is locked by the console?), and if I try to run it 
in Rebol with call/console ... it hangs. 


I don't get this part...Your program seems to be still running while 
you think it has finished.

If you have no loop in your code nor system calls that might block, 
you could try disabling your anti-virus program to see if that's 
not the one interfering.

Does call/console work under Windows 7?


call/console "ver" causes REBOL to hang on my machine after printing 
"The handle is invalid twice."

Perhaps it is better to use call/output?

>> console-output: make string! 2000
== ""
>> call/output "ver" console-output
== 0
>> console-output
== "^/Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]^/"

In C/C++, A file which might be included by other files would likely 
start with "#ifndef _OOXX_H #define _OOXX_H" and end with "#endif". 
How would I do that in Red/System? Thanks.

Red/System will only include a file once no matter how many  #includes 
it encounters.

Thanks, Peter.

Yeah, can't believe they didn't fix that in C* in fourty years

I'm offering another matching funds drive to help keep Doc working 
on Red.  I'll match funds donated to him by December 25, 2012, up 
to a total of $1000.  If you're interested in Red, please help Doc 
focus his efforts on the project.

Cool :-)

I have been testing my compiler help script and notice the compilation 
of my red test script takes about 150 ms and after that the compiling 
to native code takes 3791ms and the linking is done in 92 ms. 

The step in the middle seems to take relative long. This is because 
Rebol does the bulk of the work here? For the JIT compiler there 
will be a faster Red compile one.

The "step in the middle" is the compilation of:

- the Red/System code generated from Red code (user + boot script)
- the whole Red runtime code (in Red/System)
- the whole Red/System runtime code (in Red/System)

The current "slowness" is caused mainly by:
1) all the runtime parts being recompiled for each user script
2) REBOL relative slowness

The cures are:

- for 1), precompile runtime parts, and recompile them only on changes

- for 2), Red self-hosted compiler will give a good boost (x10 is 
my target)


Also, the self-hosted Red and Red/System compilation speed will be 
improved compared to the current versions. In the end, we should 
have very fast static and dynamic compilation, the target to reach 
for the JIT compilation mode is less than 100ms for short scripts, 
typically, most functions should compile under 10ms.

^ Things like this are why you're "Doc"Kimbel and not "Mr"Kimbel 
:)

;-)

Actually, there is a quote from Jack Shephard (the doctor and main 
character in L.o.s.t. TV show) that I repeat to myself when facing 
lots of new bug reports or complex issues: "I can fix it" ;-)

That's so dramatic (...and rightfully so at times, I'm sure)  :)

Doc, what are your current expectations about timing for a Red GUI? 
 Do you want to make it VID-like?  (my vote is for yes).  GUI was 
the "hook" for R2, and I think a GUI as simple to use as VID, even 
if not encompassing as many features, would increase RED's appeal 
dramatically.

VID-like: definitely. Not only because it is a simple and efficient 
way to build GUI, but also because it nicely shows the power of dialecting, 
applied rightly, so it "validates" the whole concept behind REBOL 
and Red. 

I was planning two approaches:


- prototype a VID dialect for cross-platforma native GUI once we 
have the right interfaces between Red and Red/System. (That part 
will include also mobile platforms, if possible, else, they will 
have rely on a mobile-oriented GUI dialect). I will probably start 
to play with it around Christmas, and try to reach an alpha/beta 
in Q2 2013.


- prototype a VID dialect for HTML frontend, having GUI frameworks 
as backend targets (Sensha, jqueryUI,...). The hard part here is 
abstracting the client-side coding, Topaz would be great for that, 
if Gabriele can find time to continue working on it. Else, I will 
need to work on my own Red to JS compilateur.


It would be also nice to have a wrapper over R3/View or a Red/System 
port of it, but it would need contributors to take it in charge. 
There are also more possible GUI options.

The cool stuff to show-off would be - bring your Red on your SD card/USB 
stick, plug-it-in, go to its dir = show "no-instal" option, show 
some GUI dialect, press a button, generate android app, and with 
one command or a dialect, push it to Google play. Then I can send 
you my friends short/long description, how long it took him to get 
his app there, downloading and installing all the JAVA crap and all 
dependencies ...

That could send a message to the overbloated world out there, and 
could win some audience ...