World: r4wp

We're at the Document Freedom Day now. I presented the GTK binding 
and the Evince and WebODF widgets

We also have a presentation by the WebODF author every year :-)

It's just MSC that doesn't support C99. There are other C compilers 
on Windows that do support it.

How well they support it varies, I'm sure, as it does on all platforms.

Do they come with C libraries that you need to install to get these 
functions?

In this DocumentFreedomDay-2012-playlist you can also find the film 
of Kaj's presentation about Red bindings with WebODF, LibreOffice 
and PDF last week in the Royal Library in The Hague, the Netherlands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzdT9s-CfdE&list=PL2736E5F6878491D9&index=5&feature=plpp_video

http://www.documentfreedomday.nl/2012/WebODF-LibreOffice-Evince.html

So that's what Kaj looks like! Kaj, you have a very kind face. :-) 
 It is an excellent quality video as well. Of course I have very 
little idea of what you are saying but once you get to the code, 
it's familiar. Thanks Bas for posting this.

Thanks. :-) I tried to make the text on screen as readable as possible, 
because it was small on the previous video. Of course, this one is 
in Dutch. Maybe we can combine English speech and big text in the 
next one :-)

I hope Doc is OK and working on RED like mad :-) Last commits are 
12, 16 days old :-)

He said that he has started work on the Red compiler in parallel 
to the Red runtime but isn't ready to commit the compiler to Github 
yet.  He told me that the runtime was likely to change as he was 
developing the compiler, so I guess that he feels that it is not 
worth commiting code that he feels is not stable.

Thanks for some news.

Btw - I also noticed Doc mentioning during the conference, that he 
might make a Red a bit more dynamic than he first thought?

I think he was tallking about  a similar  flexibility as REBOL in 
passing arguments to functions; the programmer can enforce strict 
typing or not.


It will be interesting to see if Red allows the programmer to define 
new types. Red/System does with alias!s for struct!s and enforces 
strict typing. But it doesn't allow the programmer to define other 
types.

Pekr: I am working on the Red compiler mostly these days and I need 
to push further than I thought first in order to more accurately 
define the runtime part. As I want to respect my roadmap, I want 
the runtime to be stable enough to release v0.3.0 with an alpha version 
of Red compiler. Be patient, it's coming. ;-)

User-defined types: yes, that's a desirable feature, but probably 
not in the Red alphas.

I am patient, it's just that after the experience with RT, I fear 
you might get lost somewhere between the lines of the source code 
:-)

Montenegro looks like the real caves are there, instead of in the 
hills of California ;-)

Funny, I was just wondering about user-defined types last night

There are both countless caves and hills here. ;-)

Doc, one unrelated question - how do you use your own domain for 
a Blogger? Is it just some kind of redirection to blogspot.com, or 
are you running blog SW on your own/hosted server?

I've setup the DNS entries for the domain according to blogger's 
tutorial.

So the domain is pointing to blogger's servers.

so is your blog available even via something like red-lang.blogspot.com?

No, using it as sub-domain doesn't seem to work anymore since I setup 
the custom domain (might be a conf switch somewhere).

Is there going to be a built in graphic GUI like in Rebol/View or 
will Red always depend on external graphical libraries for GUI's?

Where I can find the window and linux RED executable?

There is no (public) Red yet, only Red/System in which Red will be 
written https://github.com/dockimbel/Red

MaxV: there's no standalone executable yet, you need to run the compiler 
using REBOL. An encapped version could be added in the future (when 
I'll find the time to automate the cross-platform building process).

Magnusso - Cyphre said, that he has new framework in mind, kind of 
View like, just a bit abstracted, so that it could use different 
backend systems (Cairo, AGG, Skia, Fog ....). But - not sure his 
target is Red. But maybe we convince him to port it for some fee 
:-)

REBOL/View also depends on an external graphics library, namely AGG. 
The difference is currently in the level of integration. Once the 
Red/System compiler linker becomes more capable, for example when 
it can produce libraries or object files, it may be possible to integrate 
graphics libraries as tightly with Red as AGG is integrated with 
REBOL

Kaj, this may be a dumb question, but as it stands now, can one create 
an android app with Red?

james - there is no Red yet, just Red/System. And yes, you can kind-of 
create Android apps. But - those are bare-bones linux ARM apps, which 
can run on an Android phone. I tried that on my HTC Sensation. Right 
now, there is no app-store support, nor the ability to link to Android 
API, which would require the JAVA bridge. You can find some info 
here - http://www.red-lang.org/2011/12/arm-support-released.html

Pekr, perfect. That clears it up for me. Thanks.

Doc - another donation sent :-)

Kaj, hate to nitpick, but REBOL/View's AGG library is statically 
linked, so it's not really "external". Static linking for Red would 
be nice.

GUI, nice would be a clean cross plattform ANSI C lib, handling the 
basic window & eventmanagement

and providing access via a simplified meta-api (VID-DSL). this way 
nearly all script languages could 
use this lib as a native GUI generator.

the lib could be extended step by step with additional backends. 
a good start would be cairo since it's plain ANSI C too.

Brian, that's what I said

Pekr: received, thank you very much!

That's just some minor help to keep you in a positive mood while 
you are fighting new Red barriers :-)

btw - how's the work going?

I would also not post here, I just try to motivate others to do the 
same from time to time :-)

And it worked Pekr :) I did as well. I tried last month too but I 
coudn't because my bank required more info. So I did via paypal this 
time.

yeah, Paypla is the easy option :-)

Thanks to all for supporting Red this or that way, hopefully we will 
prevail :-)

Pekr: I am finishing the generation of the intermediary representation 
for the output of Red compiler. I had to change it several times 
as it is uneasy to design properly without all the other pieces ready 
(another chicken and egg problem).


For example, to properly store literals (especially series literals), 
I need some kind of Redbin format, but designing it and implementing 
it now seems like a bit premature (as most types are not defined 
yet). So, I went for a dynamic construction model at run-time for 
now. I'll move literals to Redbin when it will be available.


For Redbin, I want it to be powerful enough to be able to serialize 
the whole state of a running Red program, but I don't know yet to 
what extent it is doable when running native code directly (needs 
some significant research work).


Also, I need to make a few changes to Red/System compiler to better 
integrate witht Red's one, I should finish those changes and release 
them this weekend.

Endo: thanks for your support!

You are welcome!