World: r4wp

Dominance issue .. monkeys aren't their main food source

Potatoes come from South America .. and they look very different 
now from those original pototoes!

Sure, apes eat most plants. I just wonder, why they seem to eat meat 
now and then. Maybe there is something in it, they need?

There isn't ...

The only thing missing from a pure plant based diet for humans is 
B12

What about fish? Are there something to the theories, that our brains 
evolved, when we started to eat more fish?

That's an ancient and discredited thesis

and like the great apes, we would get B12 from eating insects

Should move to ~Science so I don't lose this.

Maternal milk contains the fatty acids needed for baby's brain growth

no fish needed!

It seems plausible with the omega 3 in fish, and when we look at 
whales, who as mammals have so large brains too.

whales eat fish ?

fish get their omega 3 from plants

moving to science ...

@Kaj, "Home improvement with Freddy"? Home improvement was with Tim 
"the toolman" Taylor, not Freddy Krueger??

Well, he came with claw tools and tomb stones...

Kaj, I ran into Carl today in Home Depot and we talked about your 
SDL binding for Red.  Do you think it would be difficult to make 
a binding for R3?  Carl was saying that he thought it wouldn't be 
too hard to convert R3-GUI to run off of OpenGL instead of the current 
foundation (was it AGG?) so it could be hardware accelerated.

Just curious.

Cool. The host backends for R3 are quite firmly in its C source, 
though, so it wouldn't be much use to use my Red/System code: you'd 
need to write the port in C to integrate it in R3. Perhaps a part 
of it could be split off in the R3 devices architecture for hosts, 
but that's incomplete, and you would have to handle a host implementation 
in an extra Red/System shared library, because the Red/System compiler 
doesn't generate object files or static libraries yet to link into 
the R3 executable

Carl must've been talking about writing SDL into R3-GUI then.  Sometimes 
(often) he speaks above my level.

Nah, that's pretty much the same thing. All these considerations 
are Red details that aren't known to Carl

Another thing is that the classic SDL that's available everywhere, 
currently the 1.2.x series, is single-window. To get a proper R3 
host with multiple windows you need SDL 1.3, which is usable but 
is in a very stretched out development process, like R3. 1.3 has 
Android and iOS support, so you'd usually want that, anyway, but 
it's harder to get ready to download binaries for it, and I haven't 
tested it with my binding yet

I had been thinking over time about porting R3 on SDL when the time 
came, but it never did, so I have no plans for it now

What about something like FLTK ?

C++ and OpenGL, GLUT I think. Bleurgh

sizeof(fltk::Widget) == 60.

The "core" (the "hello" program compiled & linked with a static FLTK 
library using gcc on a 486 and then stripped) is 82K.
The FLUID program (which includes every widget) is 352k.

Still fits on a 720K disk

That's nice, but it's still C++, and mandatory 3D hardware, I think

They also have conflicting development branches, worse than SDL

Support for OpenGL overlay hardware on both X11 and WIN32. Emulation 
if none

So hard to get on other platforms and less supported PCs

http://www.fltk.org/doc-2.0/html/index.html

FLTK (pronounced "fulltick") is a LGPL'd C++ graphical user interface 
toolkit for X (UNIX®), OpenGL®, Microsoft® Windows®, OS/X, and several 
other platforms.

Trying to see what other platforms means

LGPL couldn't be integrated into R3 because of conflicts with the 
Apache licensing model, right?

Yes, the major three, Linux only if you have drivers for your hardware, 
and little chance to get on other platforms

No, Apache only has a problem with GPL

Heh, also available on AmigaOS4

In contrast to libraries like Qt and wxWidgets, FLTK uses a more 
lightweight design and restricts itself to GUI functionality. Because 
of this, the library is very small (the FLTK "Hello World" program 
is around 100 KiB), and is usually statically linked. It also avoids 
complicated macros and separate code preprocessors, and does not 
use the following advanced C++ features: templates, exceptions, RTTI 
or, for FLTK 1.x, namespaces. Combined with the modest size of the 
package, this leads to a relatively short learning curve for new 
users.[citation needed]


These advantages come with corresponding disadvantages. FLTK offers 
fewer widgets than most GUI toolkits and, because of its use of non-native 
widgets, does not have native look-and-feel on any platform.

SDL binding for R3 shouldn't be too hard. (Of course that doesn't 
help with the SDL 1.2 vs 1.3 issues Kaj nicely summarised.)

Bo - I wonder if you know about Cyphre's intent to accelerate View 
anyway, so imo Carl just misses important info on what is actually 
going on ;-)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rebol/6MMlv-E3j-E

I don't think you would gain anything by using SDL to get R3GUI faster. 
AFAIK SDL has no 2d graphics support...it's just low-level lib for 
handling the OpenGL or 2d framebuffer. There is no support for 2d 
vector graphics, font rendering etc. so you'll end with the same 
needs for the UI engine in the end.

As Pekr mentioned above, with the new R3 graphics code reorganization 
I'm working on it will be possible to even create a compositor based 
on SDL though if anyone is interested in doing that.

or use OpenGL directly ;-)

@Kaj, you are unstoppable!! 
So many times as well I have no clue what it is all about. :\

I found out I do not need JNI though, no  need to program my fridge.

Java is way too bloated for fridges; they should run on Red :-)

I want red fridge :-)

There you go - cheap at half the price - http://www.very.co.uk/swan-sr9051r-60cm-fridge-freezer---red/1119903640.prd

:-)

That's a pretty small fridge compared to what we are using.