World: r4wp

We haven't needed one yet. Foundations tend to do better when they're 
for well-established projects, since otherwise they don't tend to 
get enough funding to cover even their own overhead. So the first 
part of a foundation-building plan would be to grow the community 
to the point where a foundation would be a good idea :)

As an observer of open source projects since there were open scource 
projects, I see some challenges that no open source community that 
in my opinion have yet to be overcome, outside a limited vertical 
or academic market.

1.  Self-interest:  Each person views the code as their own opportunity 
to promote their own goals.  Since it costs nothing except time and 
effort and there is no remuneration, people develop forks that suit 
themselves.  When the need for them disappears, the support for them 
vanishes.  Result:  Whether a company owns the source or a company 
makes money with the source you are always dependent upon somebody 
who has more at stake than you do.  Right now that means Sapphirion.

2. Money:  Even with open source projects it takes money to push 
them forward.  If a company can make money they will pay for it themselves. 
 if somebody else needs the port or feature, they donate if there 
are enough people interested. So you either pay a company or pay 
into a project, either way you pay.

3. Leadership:  Usually a company ends up taking leadership because 
the original leaders begin to tire of the constant promotion and 
hard work.

I haven't seen a community able to sustain an open source effort 
for very long before it 1) forks into dozens of splinters 2) Loses 
or lacks leadership (which includes people willing to follow). 3) 
or is taken up by a company and exploited for its own purposes.

The solution to this would a very radical idea, one that isn't easy 
for a group of people to do.  Think of others as more important than 
themselves.  In this case I believe that R3 could become a movement 
against technology squeezing people into its own mold.  It could 
become technology that makes us smarter and better, rather than less 
adequate and worse.  It could become an enabling technology, but 
only if its people are devoted to enabling other people.

First enable programmers, then teachers, business people, artists. 
 Donald Norman does a nice job of articulating this vision in "Things 
that Make us Smart."  Human centered technology could become the 
clarion call of R3.

You'd have to use gen technology to change human nature

However, the new humans would morph back into the old ones in some 
generations

Does gen technology = nature, human or otherwise?

NickA, as Rebol is not mainstream, a programmer has to be independent 
or at least to think that.

Otherwise he would not be keen enough, to use such an exotic language.
At least I think that.

exotic is probably the wrong term,  maybe unknown

exotic is the good word.   especially since it goes against the mainstream 
trend of many things.

It's not everyones language, although it sounds like used by many.)

Nice, Kaj!

The only place I've seen othermindedness happen has been inside companies 
with strong leaders.  The results are always powerful.  The Humana 
Healthcare organization went from 4 rural hospitals to the second 
largest HMO in America that way. Waste Management also became the 
largest waste disposal company in America that way.   There is one 
part of Oracle that is experiencing a 4 fold increase in sales as 
a result of an othermined culture establish by the general manager 
of that department.  NewTek was another company that started out 
that way. It can be done, but I've never seen it in an open source 
community.

Never forget the talk I heard by Joe Green the former CEO of Humana. 
 He showed us an organizational chart written upside down with his 
name at the top.  He flipped over the chart which put himself at 
the bottom with the lettering now right side up.  He said, "When 
I realized that my job was to love the four people above me in the 
chart, the  organization really took off."

Did they do away with self-interest and money?

Of course not, Kaj!

While I believe that a man should be paid a fair wage for his mental 
or physical efforts, I disagree with coming up with exotic ways to 
extract money from others.  And the only reason that a wage needs 
to be paid at all is that living is currently not free for most people.

There is a difference between self-interest and selfishness.

It is on the same fine line between altruisme and stupidity.

Arnold agreed.  I'm suggesting that a group can be otherminded and 
in the process protect and promote the interests of the individuals 
in it.  It requires a clear vision that transcends the group and 
its members, a strong leader who can articulate that vision, and 
individuals who can consider the needs of others as more important 
than themselves.  It worked on the soccer field with my teams, it 
worked a some large companies and it works in small businesses that 
I am aware of around the United States.

Trust is a huge factor, in the vision, in the leadership and in the 
other members of the group.

the best structure is when bosses are told to empower employes (at 
all levels of management) and resonsabilities are properly attributed 
and taken.

Maxim. This + alot. But it is more than empowerment, it's other-mindedness 
with empowerment.  You can empower nacisistic people and get dysfunction.

The boss I ever had had a very healthy philosophy... when I'm doing 
nothing and everything is happening, I'm doing my job.  his philosophy 
was simple.  hire competent people, give them all the rope anyone 
needs to hang themself.  but make sure the noose is strong.

the boss == the best boss

a lot of bad human traits only flourish when they are cultivated 
in poor conditions.   when everyone is happy, feels like he's useful 
and appreciated... most unhealthy habits just leave because they 
have no place to root.  when everyone is happy, the rotten apple 
often, just leaves or gets told to change by everyone.

but... in ANY company... this is always a reflection of the person 
at the top.

The Fossil announcement would be more appropriate in ~Links.

Do you think so? It was an action of mine on the service of my Red 
bindings

I've made similar announcements on previous occasions

Yes, as I saw nothing Red-specific in it.

If a majority here feels the same way, I'll change my announcement 
policy

I don't mind seeing Kaj's announcements in the announce group.

I'm OK either way. I go back to Announce more for REBOL/Red related 
things, which this is related to.

Kaj: I just downloaded the Win version of your GTK-Browser.exe app 
and the dozen of DLLs  required to run it and then it runs. But when 
I click on the Go button, nothing goes on. How is it supposed to 
react exactly ? The Quit button runs OK and the app is left.

Doc has just reported that it doesn't work on Windows. We're looking 
into it

By the way, you can download all the files, including the libraries, 
in one go

http://web.syllable.org/news/2012-11-18-20-47-Red-high-level-programming-language-first-alpha.html

Kaj - are you after the ReBrowser, as Carl envisioned it? :-) Looks 
like R2 desktop replacement ... kind of ....

Yep

Fossil standardises on UTF-8 and standard line endings in text files. 
I suppose I should not link to single files anymore. From a folder 
in Fossil's web UI, you can at least view those files

To be able to handle such a file on Windows, you should either have 
an auto-converting editor, or convert them yourself. On the other 
hand, REBOL does it automatically

Gerard, which Windows version do you have?

I've tested that the GTK-browser and most other example programs 
work on Windows XP and WINE. So far, the problem seems to be limited 
to Windows 7

I have the same problems with XP.
The exe does nothing but the url line.

If I try to do or read  the .red from the console-pro, the console 
window closes.

Odd. Can you open the .red files when you copy them to your local 
machine? I haven't been able to test networking on XP yet, but it 
works in WINE

I have found a problem on Windows with reading files with Windows 
newlines, but reading Unix files is fine

I tried to do that with local .red files.

The ones on our Redsite? Others are meant for the compiler, not the 
interpreter