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World: r3wp

[!REBOL3 Host Kit]

BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[51x2]
They are on the main changes page on REBOL.com, linked off their 
main page. This is not at all obscure.
Especially for a highly experimental release.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[53]
I claim ignorance :)
Kaj
12-Oct-2010
[54]
I claim to never have seen two REBOL filenames that were the same 
- and I'm not talking about version numbers
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[55]
lol
Kaj
12-Oct-2010
[56]
With every release I have to turn my formal build recipes upside 
down
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[57]
I was pleasantly (but extremely) surprised that the a107 release 
was stable enough to build a new core with. The a1xx series has been 
really experimental, almost as unstable as other people's alpha software.
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[58]
R3 host-kits are still very alpha.
Kaj
12-Oct-2010
[59x2]
Other people's betas are released, like, say a year after their alphas 
- but let's not dwell on that
And I mean formal build recipes for R2 as well
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[61]
The host-kit has probably changed more architecturally in 3 alpha 
versions than the whole python life cycle.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[62]
Is the r3 core lib provided by RT? e.g. r3lib.dll
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[63]
yes
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[64]
And less and less of R3 is in it with each release. We are externalizing 
a lot of it into the host portion, where you can see and modify the 
source.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[65]
Is there a unit test framework for R3 (e.g. I use CppUnit for C++)?
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[66]
Ssolie, no.
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[67]
It is so easy to make unit test frameworks in REBOL that there are 
several. But no official one yet.
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[68]
well yes there is... RUnit... but its very easy to make your own 
in two pages or rebol.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[69]
I'm new to rebol obviously :)
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[70]
Nevertheless, currently there's no official, published test suite 
for R3.
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[71x2]
Not published at least. There is apparently a massive test suite 
for R2 (and possibly R3) that RT uses internally.
And yes, it is in unit test format. We have found that unit test 
vectors are best formatted in the "block of code that returns true 
on success" model.
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[73x2]
Remnants of an early attempt at getting something structured going 
for R3 can still be found on R3 chat.
And as far as I understand their are third parties doing internal 
regression testing. Nothing published that i know of, though.
Kaj
12-Oct-2010
[75]
I thought Carl generated a test suite for R3 a few years ago? And 
Ladislav seemed to be executing them
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[76x2]
Right now there are so many changes between host kit alphas that 
there tend to be regression bugs with every release. They get fixed.
Ladislav may still be executing them - he's in the development group.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[78]
Are there any RT employees that hang around in chat?
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[79]
Unfortunately (or not, depending on your opinion) the module system 
doesn't have many unit tests. The reason for this is because it is 
written using design-by-contract rather than test-driven-development. 
Once the design is final we will write tests to try to break it.
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[80]
dbc is orthogonal to tdd
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[81x2]
DBC makes most of the tests in TDD unnecessary.
There are people involved with the development of R3 that come here, 
like Henrik and me. Some of the others come by more rarely, to catch 
up or answer questions.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[83]
For the to-be-made amiga host-kit, would it be possible to include 
both dynamic (libr3.so) and static (libr3.a) linked r3 core libs?
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[84]
libr3.a is unrealistic.
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[85]
For the module system the only bugs that get through are native bugs 
and design flaws. The native bugs are found through testing, the 
design flaws through thought. Actual bugs in the module code are 
caught through tracing, but usually prevented in the first place 
through type tests and explicit error checking.
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[86x2]
I think we have a remote chance at eventually getting a partially 
linked libr3.o (which can then of course be wrapped in an .a on it's 
own).
I don't know about Amiga or Win32, but at least with Linux linkers 
it's possible to achieve this in a way that should satisfy Carl.
BrianH
12-Oct-2010
[88]
Why those restrictions, Andreas? Core is a statically linked host 
kit.
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[89x2]
Which restrictions?
Yes, but we can't reproduce Core from the hostkit.
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[91x2]
I worked on the amiga python port and we provide a libpython.so which 
is what apps like Blender then utilize for embedding python
I imagine rebol will be similar
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[93]
Yeah, but Python is open source :) Carl is _very_ picky about libr3.
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[94x2]
that is what is to be expected.
(reply was for ssolie)
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[96x2]
thanks Maxim
just thinking out loud a bit while browsing the host-kit here..
Andreas
12-Oct-2010
[98]
The primary reason there's no OSX hostkit is that Carl has not yet 
managed to generate a libr3 to his satisfaction :)
Maxim
12-Oct-2010
[99]
he says he can't generate a .so on OSX that doesn't export all symbols
ssolie
12-Oct-2010
[100]
strange.. I would think you just disable the option in the linker... 
--export-all-symbols or something?