World: r3wp

JoshM - doesn't my private post re how Internet proxy settings in 
control panel influence registry help? IIRC, you set proxy in the 
past according to incorrect registry path. Please revise get-net-info 
:-) I prefer 90% working proxy, than none at all :-)

Pekr, thanks. I'm not in charge of get-net-info....not sure who owns 
that area actually.

That is REBOL code, and I pretty much only handle the C code. Sorry 
:(....maybe you want to ask Carl or whoever is leading the REBOL 
product development in that area?

petr: basically, C code has to be written specifically to be thread 
safe. rebol 2 is not thread safe, so the rebol dll is not thread 
safe either. this means that you can't use the rebol dll from two 
different threads in the same process. you could use the rebol dll 
from two different processes.

i'm quite sure rebol 3 will be thread safe so it will solve the plugin 
problem too.

Gabriele - who is in charge of get-net-info? That function is outdated 
and plain wrong imo, not serving its purpose well ... could we somehow 
cooperate to redesign it?

of course, if my assumption that plug-in uses it, is right :-)

i don't have gets

i don't have get-net-info here

so it's not in the source for the view installer, and not in the 
normal mezz code. has to be a different component.

help get-

so... as of now Carl is in charge of that code.

yes, i see it in view, but i don't see it in the source files :)

source get-net-info .... it uses registry functions, which, imo, 
are unset after rebol boots ....

i mean - i cannot fix it if i don't have the master source file. 
we can send improvements to carl, but i don't think he has time to 
consider them right now.

i'd say, wait after rebol 3 is out. that code will most likely need 
to be rewritten anyway.

but that is exactly proper proxy detection fails ... the code checks 
for proxy settings on inproper assumptions ... so - then why to release 
rebol 2 plug-in at all? :-)

I will study it once again to see ... but someone could confirm, 
if I am right thinking it is the function responsible for proxy detection 
:-)

Threads: Rebol puts important stuff in globals. That is similar to 
putting things in the globl context: with a single thread it is ok 
to change a var. With multiple threads andno coordination, itleads 
to chaos.. Think two threads use the  same interpreter-pc.

ok, ok, I just do not understand, why browser should use several 
different threads? Couldn't it be simply that they multiplex between 
various stuff? In such case  - nothing would be conflicting? (beware 
- just a speculation of non-experienced low-level "coder" :-)

don't tell me, that for each instance of Flash e.g., it uses separate 
threads? And what embedded OSes, which do not have threads? I wonder 
if it limits number of flash banners on the site displayed?

Thats the part called thread-safe. Such things can be done, but need 
some organisation. For example (speculation): rebol does something 
like
  forever[ do-next-step ]

And now that has to be changed insomething which returns in between. 
And save all theglobals currently scattered everywhere in the sourcecode.

But i guess each instance of flash uses really an own thread.

Some things are simpler then. As long as the threads dont need to 
work together.

Regarding multiple threads/instances: we're looking into a solution 
that may solve this problem.

Hi all. Hope you had a good weekend.

I am working on a design doc for making the default security settings 
for the plugin more restrictive.

I know we talked about it a while ago, but those discussions are 
long gone from REBOL and from the web......I apologize, I should 
have archived them. Can you repost your thoughts on the default security 
model, in *concise* posts please? thank you!

I'm sorry, those discussions are long gone from AltME and the web 
archive, that's what I meant to say.

BTW, you talked about rebol as external process,sharing window. Its 
not plugin, but could that work between rebol-apps? view-desktop 
could profit a lot.

hmm. good thoughts. I don't think that will go into the next release 
of plugin, but you could suggest it in the general REBOL 3.0 area

Extra Security, some thoughts:
- 'secure for ips, eg: secure [net ask tcp://rebol.com allow]
- don't share sandbox-folders between hosts.
- if possible memory-restriction, hd, cpu?
- clipboard-restriction somehow?

- check for memory-access, specially disable struct! . IMO real hackers 
will figure out how to inject code by poke. 

- reblets can store executable code by naming the file *.exe. Does 
not run immediate, but script can open folder in explorer by browse, 
and one wrong click runs it. (or is windows smarter now? Maybe you 
could add an own extension always, and maybe store everything as 
64#{} ?

- Make sure untrusted reblets don't run invisible, can snoop clipboard, 
or at least users online-times. I guess creatives can find other 
uses.

- Maybe some kind of log about starts/stops, with urls? To have a 
little chance of tracking. Some kind of global console.
- Running out of thoughts for now.

- protect access to real file-pathes. kind of chroot. getting 'what-dir 
can be a good hint for attacks i guess. At least mozilla puts a random 
part in profile-folders.

A couple of quick thoughts:

[*] Don't allow reading/writing outside of a local sandbox......That 
includes not allowing access to URLs elsewhere on the web.  permitting 
wider local access and permitting wider web access should be separate 
security settings
[*] Disallow send by default

huh, are we talking rebol then?

disallowing send? why? can't you just send email by java script?

I would not limit rebol networking at all, I would add some security, 
yes, but not limitation ...

What Volker suggests might work, but then rebol's secure dialect 
should be extended ....

Yes of course with dialog. And some way to set prferences. I like 
how noscript does that.

disallowing send - how many spam can i send on your account while 
you run my reblet?

Maybe change it and open the users mail-client with the prepared 
email?

that is a very good idea volker!

this should actually be added as a standard REBOL feature IMHO!

Thinking about it, yes. Maybe the standard things native, browser, 
email, editor. With an option to use mail and editor inbuild. Maybe 
these could run by 'launch, so they are rebol, but reblets cant touch 
the real code.

BTW how about changing the exe to a thin wrapper around the dll? 
Would be a single download for both. (could be offered in both ways, 
completely one exe, or wrapper + plugin + dll).

Volker. Jaime.  Clipboard access should probably raise a security 
request, like it does in (secured) browsers.   Maybe it should also 
be part of 'secure  ...

woops, not Jaime ==> Josh

Yes. its tricky. restriction is very inconvenient, but snooping can 
be valuable. I sometimes even clip passwords..

Maybe a native 'field, which is not accessible from the script until 
"enter", and allowing pasting there? Rebol3, how much protection 
can modules give?

Yes. You should try disabling third party cookies in your browsers 
and see how much stuff is leaked to  through that., easy enough to 
steal from a form a user just filled out ;-)