World: r3wp

Ha that's funny.

Security updates are too important not to prompt for.

There is no right click on Mac.

Prompts I think should go in the plugin's space in the browser. We 
can implement them as rebol faces.

Ctrl-click then. Same difference, just less useful.

what's the name for that space, by the way ? is it "frame" ?

perhaps there should be a standard whereby the plugin application 
displays the notice.

Anton, that won't work for webbugs. We want the security updates 
to be visible even when the applet isn't.

Hmmmm.........

Especially when the applet isn't, since those kind of applets are 
more likely to be exploiting security bugs.

Are there legitimate uses for webbugs ?

Could we enforce a minimum window size ? Think of the minimum window 
size we have here on WinXP. Never bothered me before.

Rarely. They're quite common for user tracking, AJAX receivers and 
exploit code.

Do you think a minimum window size would be good ?

Running a REBOL/Services client in a webbug and having it control 
the browser through the DOM could be useful though.

Why would it be worried about showing a small window, though ?

What's a minimum though, when you could just as easily color the 
applet the same color as the background?

Here are the scenarios with resolutions in boolean logic as I see 
them right now:

 1. web_site_required_version not found on users computer -- download 
 required version

 2. web_site_required_version = version_on_computer && security_min_version 
 > version_on_computer -- popup, request download security update

 3. web_site_required_version = version_on_computer && security_min_version 
 <= version_on_computer && latest_version > version_on_computer -- 
 not sure

thoughts?

A legitimate webbug wouldn't be worried about showing a security 
update. An illegitimate one would be directly interested in hiding 
one since it may be depending on the security hole for exploit code.

It would be more noticeable, at least.

Yes, we're assuming that the web site has no control over the security 
check, nor the security_min_version (that would come from RT)

3. No action required.

I think you may be right about popups. It seems we can't avoid them.

So, we have a few different scenarios (using the numbering from above):

 1. In this case, the activex system in IE will force the download 
 of the (digitally signed) CAB found in the htm, which will come from 
 RT, and contain the Plugin version that works with this system. Nothing 
 new is required, this is how it works now.

 2. Here we need to enhance REBOL somehow to check for a security 
 update, prompt the user, and download an updater EXE. This is where 
 I think I will work next.

I prefer to think of these as alerts. Popups (initiated by the script) 
are another matter.

3. Maybe we shouldn't do anything at all here.

I'll leave it here for tonight. good discussion, thanks for all the 
feedback.

We could be conservative and not make unrequested non-security updates.

Alerts, ok.

Goodnight Josh. Good to chat with you.

Good night!

What  method for plugin update checking does firefox recommend? I 
already have a number of plugins that prompt me when a newer version 
is available, so I assume they is a standard method for it.

Ah yes... I think there must be some API for it.

Does Firefox check for updates to its plugins? I thought it just 
checked for updates to its themes and extensions but let the plugins 
update themselves. It does seem to provide a plugin registry though.

I think you're right there.

Assuming the plugin will become wildly successful, maybe there should 
be a way to have the initial plugin download and subsequent updates 
come from a site other than rebol.com so that any outage there wouldn't 
affect users hitting a page calling for the plugin. I wonder how 
high load is handled for the Flash plugin?

That's a good question. I'm also curious about how Firefox's plugin 
registry works, how to get a plugin there.

Does the current plugin have the ability to "pop-out" the browser 
window and create a self-standing application window like a Java 
applet?

So that you wouldn't be limited by a restrictive client area.

the first window you create is inside the browser, and the ones after 
that are outside.

Well, that's a good question. I'd prefer the "wild web" version of 
the plugin to be restricted to the browser client area. (popups are 
evil). But the question is, is it possible to resize the client area 
in the browser ?

@Graham - So it's not quite like applets where the applet can jump 
out of and back into the page?

For that matter, is it possible to specify the size of the client 
area relative to the page size, have it resize with the page, and 
have the REBOL layout inside handle the resize as if a View window 
had been resized by the user?

Adrian, no, that's right, you can't relocate windows.

Brian, I notice the Google Videos do this, don't they ?

yes, I believe they can

Aha! A good reason to post this crazy video:

Russian Climbing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=515642196227308929&pl=true

That's a great video - was totally amazed the first time I saw it