World: r3wp

That's a complicated issue.

I like the API being able to wrap a one dll from each generation, 
and then update that dll for security fixes.

Anton, your side-by-side idea is a good one. The problem is that 
I'm not sure it's automatic enough the average user.

The plugin itself can handle the automatic updates, or call an updater 
that can handle plugin updates too.

Our original thinking with the plugin was as follows: Web site is 
responsible for everything. If web site requires new version of plugin, 
it specifies a new CLSID and forces the user to download it. The 
problem is, then you have 5 "REBOL/Plugin" objects in Downloaded 
Program FIles. Thoughts on that approach?

It's a simple "proto-form", good for development while we think and 
argue about a good update mechanism.

Hmm OK interesting. I like the argument though. Good exercise for 
the brain. :)

Java has something like the Needs header in specified in applet params. 
REBOL has the Needs header.

Website out on the web should have *no* control over decision making 
- only suggestions.  Website on a corporate trusted LAN should have 
heaps of control.

What are we developing for first ? I think it is the "wild web" first, 
isn't it ?

Interesting. OK, so we're leaning towards parallel side-by-side  
installs with automatic overwrite updates for security fixes?

(We should clarify this.)

Sounds good to me.

Yes, we're developing for the wild wild web.

:)

I'll compromise if you guys are set on this (slightly comlex) scheme.

(slightly complex)

I'd prefer ease of use over anything else.

I dislike being asked by my kids to install stuff for them all the 
time ...

(I just know the version checking is going to cause subtle problems. 
There's nothing simpler than a old-version < new-version test)

I also like being able to specify the REBOL generation in the Needs 
header of the script. It is more reliable than requiring it in applet 
params, and more compatible with View. Still, aplet params may be 
prefered if you don't want the launcher to have to read REBOL headers.

Understood Graham, but we're not there yet.

And my kids are more savvy than Grandpa Sally

I want to sleep on this. Good ideas. We still need to think of a 
good UI....I originally thought a popup "An update is available for 
REBOL/Plugin for Internet Explorer.  Would you like to update now"?

They should be able to figure out a right-click menu.

I think right-click is too hidden. Plus, applications need right-click 
support anyway right?

I kinda like allowing apps to have their own right-click menus.

Popups suck. Could put it in the plugin space.

avoid double/right clicks

Ouch.

Right about right-click....  Just thought of it thinking of Flash 
plugin.

What about a little bubble down by the clock? Of course that would 
only work on Windows, maybe 2000 or later.

And we have to be cross-platform back to 98

no, must be in browser.

I think a prompt is better, particulary for security updates.

Flash uses right-click?

Does Flash use right-click on Mac?

Maybe status bar in browser? too hidden probable.

Ha that's funny.

Security updates are too important not to prompt for.

There is no right click on Mac.

Prompts I think should go in the plugin's space in the browser. We 
can implement them as rebol faces.

Ctrl-click then. Same difference, just less useful.

what's the name for that space, by the way ? is it "frame" ?

perhaps there should be a standard whereby the plugin application 
displays the notice.

Anton, that won't work for webbugs. We want the security updates 
to be visible even when the applet isn't.

Hmmmm.........

Especially when the applet isn't, since those kind of applets are 
more likely to be exploiting security bugs.

Are there legitimate uses for webbugs ?

Could we enforce a minimum window size ? Think of the minimum window 
size we have here on WinXP. Never bothered me before.