World: r3wp

As for the browser itself, I am not sure Carl is the right person 
to do it (judging how rebol.com looks graphically :-). I think we 
need to cooperate on the idea.

I don't think the design of the browser GUI is as difficult as its 
underlying concepts, like security and basic page display mechanisms. 
He'll want to get those right first.

imo any kind of rebol browser is just VID 3.4 app. That could come 
later imo. We first need to get VID itself right ...

I think he knows that :-)

can't wait for first code examples and screenshots (although those 
will not tell much about architecture itself)

Yeah, let Carl write the stylesheet engine, but have someone else 
do the stylesheets.

Nobody is going to learn Rebol so they can generate Javascript code.. 
and Javascript -> Rebol seems odd. 

I would rather see Rebol -> C or especially Objective C.. then you 
could export to iPhone. 


I played around with Jiggy for my jail broke iPhone.. which lets 
you use javascript to write iPhone apps.. works well. 
http://www.jiggyapp.com/

Terry, Rebol -> JS is kind of similar in purpose and in concept to 
what the Ruby on Rails guys did with Ruby -> JS (aka. RJS).  With 
Rebol's lexical muscles, it is surely a great candidate for abstracting 
what happens in the browser.

I think a few, including Reichart (Qtask), Henrik (HTML Dialect) 
and myself (not started yet, QM) are going this route.

Terry - why would not anyone use VID like fluent description of GUI 
instead of crap js code? Then tell me, why JAVA guys came with declarative 
JAVAFX aproach, if they had JAVA itself already ....

I already used Rebol -> ECMAScript (at least to generate data (mainly 
nasted arrays)) to skip a need to write something like XML parser 
on the client side, how most people do now:)

Terry, I am not going to learn REBOL to generate JavaScript code. 
I already know REBOL. I already have to generate JavaScript code, 
for my job at the very least. As for a REBOL-hosted JavaScript runtime, 
that is likely to be just a useful side effect.

Petr "JavaScript, despite the name, is essentially unrelated to the 
Java programming language, although both have the common C syntax, 
and JavaScript copies many Java names and naming conventions. "

And what I learn can be adapted to other targets, including C, in 
theory. Though C is a poor choice for generating iPhone apps - it 
would be better to generate LLVM code directly, as it has a better 
semantic model than C.

Or even Objective C.

http://phonegap.com/

Interesting. Your point?

While the Rebol community chats, the world solves.

You are talking to the wrong part of the community. I have a full-time 
job solving problems with REBOL.

Here's my problem.. A simple way to create apps for the iPhone.. 
Rebol seems like the perfect candidate. Any ETAs?

Not happening as long as Apple won't allow 3rd party language runtimes 
on the phone.

I don't know anyone in the REBOL community with the porting skills 
who actually owns an iPhone.

I have the skills, but not the phone, and I like the phone I have. 
Do you want to buy me an iPod Touch? And some time?

And a Mac?

Henrik is right... their license forbids other languages and programs 
with a plugin architecture, like say,  other browsers.....

You would have to make a subset of REBOL a library that is statically 
linked to other applications, and that subset could not include any 
of the DO dialect functions. You could generate those applications 
using Mac-hosted standard REBOL code though.

I think that's my point.

How exactly is that RT's fault?

These legal restrictions are why there is no Java or Flash for the 
iPhone.

A rebol -> obj C would work.. like the ECMA -> obj C example link... 
I just doubt i will ever happen with RT

it :)

It's not RT's job to build that. _You_ build it.

I could say that I need a development environment for a robotic vacuum 
cleaner. Do I complain that someone hasn't built it for me, or do 
I make one myself? I choose the latter. The only reason that there 
is no REBOL development environment for the iPhone is that I don't 
need one, and noone who does has made one. This is a community - 
RT is a company. If you want RT to make that, you pay them. Otherwise 
make it yourself.

I don't expect anyone to make it. That's the problem with Rebol.. 
if you want something, you need to make it.

as with any other language?

There will always be people who chat instead of do, in any community. 
You can't use the work of people who do in another context to berate 
people who chat in this one. We have people who do as well, and the 
people who chat won't start magically becoming people who do when 
transported into another community.


Personally, I like the people who chat. They provide ideas for the 
people who do.

If you want something, you need to make it. Or pay for it to be made. 
Or look to see if someone else has made it and get it from them. 
On any platform, even this one. Such is life.

I have to retract one of my statements: There is at least one person 
with the porting skills to make a development environment for the 
iPhone who actually has an iPhone. But he's busy working on more 
important (to him) stuff.

I think that Terry just tries to state the fact - that our community, 
even if honestly trying to do the best, is so small, that we will 
not be successfull in spreading REBOL as much as other projects span 
.NET, iPhone, etc.

I have an iTouch :-)

Those other products have large corporations behind them, and depend 
on wide adoption. I'm not sure that either is the case here.

Maarten, do you have the need to write applications for your iTouch?

Yes. But as is stands, it is faster to not do that in Rebol... for 
now.

 if you want something, you need to make it.

 - yes, and what? If I would not using my dialect to make SWF files, 
 I would have to use for example mtasc, but If I would need to for 
 example scale all the graphics in the file as I needed now, I would 
 have to code in Ocaml which I would not be able. With Rebol it took 
 me 2 evenings.

(I don't mind Objective C)

I really don't think that there would be somehow in Ocaml comunity 
to do it for me.

And I bought the iTouch as MP3-player while running...  figured might 
as well get some extra goodies. Now that I have it: it turns the 
world upside-down. Buying a little app for e2 over your wlan with 
to taps, it's tasteful.

See i like rebolbecause I allows OLdes to express is dreams and that's 
a hudge thing  ^^

See i like rebol because  it allows OLdes to express is dreams and 
that's a hudge thing  ^^ ( sorry it's really late and i'm prettry 
tired... = )  )

well i sued most of the programing langugages in the world  and rebol 
is from far the most interresting.  It needs to be enhanced  but 
as a matter of fact the numbres of main releases were not alot so 
we can say that rebolis still a very young language. A cross the 
years a lot of experience have been collected and i'm sure Carl took 
a good note of all this and that he will show is that R3