World: r3wp

Add some coffee and cake .. ;)

LOL

Playing marketing, would it helpto add browser-access too? Then that 
cookies could be a good idea. If you do not tell that all that web-interfacing 
is a quic workaround around not having user-names.. :)

It has just occured to me that if REBOL needs a niche and actually 
wants to have REBOL work in the Large... that they need to do only 
one thing.   Embrace XML.   its got everything going for it, there 
is nothing to invent (just read specs and implement, like protocol 
RFCs).

REBOL should not use XML internally, but should be made to be as 
XML literate as is possible.  imagine if we could simply tell any 
current IT management that all they need to USE all of that $ they 
invested in those obscure tools, is Load and then they can actually 
do stuff with it.

just like we just SEND a mail, READ a web site, or WRITE an ftp server. 
 if we could also LOAD/SAVE any XML technologies (XML files, DTDs, 
Schemas, etc), then R3 would immediately get appeal in the corporate 
world.  It would actually have value to them .

I agree. That's a good thought.

And R3 would have the excuse of being able to be IT friendly.. which 
it currently isn't.   AND it would benefit of having access to a 
slew of tools which actually help some people get work done integrating 
Heterogenous systems, which is something REBOL is currently incapable 
of stating.

If you get any salesman in an IT dept which has XML capabilities 
(and they are getting used, really) and in 15 minutes, LOADS their 
data structures, instances, edits them and spits them right back 
out using a simple command line interface... welll...  case closed.

you at least get a chance at having REBOL being used for some little 
tidbits, and as we all know, it will become addictive and soon will 
get used more and more.

corporate environments, big or small, need liabilities, assurance, 
and REBOL is sooo scary right now, most people just say...

nice toy!

Or forbid you using it.

there is some merit to that: what if the rebol developer quits? they 
don't exactly camp out in everybody's backyard. java developers do.

Yup, I've heard that before. It's a valid concern.

I can vouche for henriks point.  That is the single most used Anti-technology 
adoption argument.  What if  "developperX  gets hit by a train?" 
 :-(

By "valid" I mean there is some truth to it.

so, that is a factor that rebol developers should not play on

I was told "by a bus."

hehe they are sometimes scare tactics by IT managers, but are valid 
noneteless.  being 100% XML compliant "out of the box, no strings 
attached" would add DEPTH to REBOL leaps and bounds in the IT business 
IMHO.

How far are we from that?

leaps and bounds   :-)

How long is that in "Rebol Years?"

I thought RT had posted on their website that they had licensed some 
xml engine at one stage.

Haven't noticed that.

The tools exist,  senior XML developers also, heck some people even 
wrote the damned specs...  nothing is keeping RT from contracting 
out someone (or licensing technology) to add those capabilites in 
rebol natively, or as a module if its too large to keep REBOL lightweight, 
(no pro-con libs wars please).

It was some years ago.

But if they considered it once, they can do again.

blog updated: "Closure Functions"

request for R3   rebcode access to struct! types.

would allow us to implement specific mechanisms very quickly and 
gauge memory useage tradeoffs vs speed depeding on application.

It has been suggested before in the rebcode group (mostly by me) 
when rebcode was first being developed. I think there are RAMBO entries 
too.

lets all kick and scream in unison  ;-)   maybe we'll make more noise 
and rattle than all the other requests  ;-)

What's an example of how having closures will aid us ?

I think they said they needed closures for threading.

That's right, so a function could be interrupted mid-evaluation and 
restarted later.

closures haven't much to do with threading. although they are reentrant, 
while normal funcs are not (in r2; I guess it may be possible to 
make normal funcs reentrant in r3).

closures help when you want the function's context to be valid for 
an indefinite amout of time.

so, a function that maintains state ?

wasn't "indefinite extent" available in R1? just curious if it is 
similar concept?

I think you are thinking of continuations.
Closures are much more lightweight.

petr, yes, functions in r1 were actually closures. (as functions 
in lisp or scheme)

weren't they removed for 2.0 because of speed aspects?

yes, but that was not the only speed problem in r1

and, speed is the reason why you have both function!s and closure!s 
in r3

you normally use function!s that are faster

and use closure!s only when you are ready to pay the price for them 
:)

oh yeah... continuations.. oops.

don't closures also help with the copy problem?  where each time 
you run the closure, a series is indeed new?

Is there a succinct way of demonstrating a situation where a closure 
would be used (with hypothetical Rebol code)?