World: r3wp

shadwolf are any of those projects active today?

Shadwolf: If pyramids were designed by committee, I don't think they 
would last so long. I believe that the more complex the design is, 
the less people it requires to be well done. For a programming language 
that don't rely on written specifications, it's a one man's work, 
at least for the kernel part.

I've been trying to move DevBase to a multi-project model.

all of those projects are dead .... I have the sources of the last 
one in date (spirit)

Maybe that is what is needed - a new open source REBOL clone that 
is going the way of R3?

Oscar is in real world use even now, as part of Syllable.

Paul, I don't think it's a good idea. one of the reasons I use REBOL 
is because there are no competing clones that are not entirely compatible.

Dock at same time we have rebol as example ... And any way i don't 
pretend to be as clever as Carl but if I can help in anyway in the 
process and at least by doing communication and documentation you 
will find me  that's a fact  ^^

Henrik, I only mention it if REBOL is not going to develop faster.

Paul: yes I'm the author of R#, which was more a research project 
on alternate ways of implementing REBOL evaluation and memory management 
than a serious attempt to make the open-source clone of REBOL.

Ahhh, ok.

An open-source REBOL clone would be the fastest way to kill Carl's 
motivation, at which point REBOL and all of the clones die.

no - i think Carl is correct in keeping core closed source. however 
i think the interfaces into core need to be simple enough that outside 
modules can easily be plugged into it in higher than C level constructs 
- probably requiring an object packer/unpacker in the core interface 
handlers

We need to combine some products and get REBOL in the mainstream.

Anyway the rebol clone can only be a dynamiser for our overbored 
community (muhahahaahaha no i'm not drunk !!! I promise !! )

Paul, I still don't think an OSS clone is the answer. Remember also 
that R3 has been worked on since 2006 for over two years. Would we 
want to duplicate all that effort? It's much better to get some autonomous 
official projects going, like building some more network protocols. 
People like Gabriele are trusted enough to make code and run projects 
like that.

I would love to see a community driven project for creating full 
SSH, HTTPS, SFTP access for R3. Carl doesn't need to supervise that.

Problem is that Gabriele is not enough people.  God bless him - I'm 
sure he works his ass off but we need more with his type of skills 
that know the Carl-way.

Henrik, I would think VID should be in that catagory also.

Brian: I'm not sure about that.

REBOL  is a way to think computing like other language having same 
language with several way to use it  is just a good thing

personally I can live without VID - its nice icing but view is enough 
to design any interface.

I know, but Gabriele communicates better than Carl does. I think 
he is quite skilled at leading a project as long as he can get his 
fingers in the code as well.

I agree ICarii.  I think some newbies to REBOL don't even know that 
you can create an interface apart from VID.

Paul, yes, VID should fit there, but Carl was of a different opinion. 
I think it's a matter of priority and with his new ideas on how to 
combine VID with extremely simple networking, might be top-priority 
to him.

henrik hum maybe because gabriele is a member of our overbored community 
and knows how is frustrating to be pending on informations

But things like protocols are much stiffer. They have to adhere to 
externally written specifications. They either work to the given 
specifications or they don't work. Carl was for example very impressed 
and happy with Gabriele's HTTP work.

We need more than Carl skills. Carl is terrible as UI design, and 
other skills that require other people. We don't need another Carl, 
we need more input from non-Carls.

lol

shadwolf, it certainly is frustrating, but I'm sure Gabriele knows 
what other things he can do in the meantime. I have my hands full 
at this time, so I don't have to sit around and wait. It suits me 
fine schedule-wise that VID3.4 is delayed.

Don't hold back Brian.

yeah btu as the intregartor and the main coder is Carl he always 
will have the last word and we will be always pending for him to 
release the new things

So we DO need more Carl's.

shadwolf, that's why we need to find autonomous projects, such as 
protocols.

It just seems that R3 develpment dances from one area to another 
- never quite finishing one before moving on.

R3 will eventually need them anyway. Why not get them written now?

you can propose as many code from non Carl since Carl don't do the 
integration the VM  don't advance faster

That's why I took over DevBase, for the most part :)


Of course we see how that turned out - I got even more overworked 
than Carl and DevBase development stopped.

shadwolf, no, but there will be less work afterwards on protocols. 
There will be enough work to do for about 50-100 developers afterwards. 
Or man-years or however you measure it.

ICarii yes but that always been the case hihihihihi .... I remember 
rebo 1.3 .... Mwuhahahaha  full amator dev .... oups sorry. So it 
first start as 1.3 is only solving the loooooooooooooot of bugs posted 
on rambo by the community then it turns to Ho and how about adding 
AGG  to ViD ? and then it was Hey I  have a big new thing REbSERVICE 
!!!! and ASync  .... Bhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

What exactly do you see that we need another Carl for? IMO his greatest 
gift to REBOL is language design vision and wisdom. That is not exactly 
the kind of thing you can cloud-source.

at the end it took  1  year of dev when originally we where expecting 
a 2 month dev ....

R2 isn't even half saturated in what can be developed for it. If 
we wanted to, we could produce a whole lot more for rebol.org than 
the few scripts that are put there. R3 will be far harder to saturate.

but who can deny that AGG or async or rebservice are cool stuffs

afk, 30 mins

Things i would like to see completed in R3:
1. AGG/Draw and richtext fixed.
2. Ports/async working 100% reliably.
3. Object system global/local completed.

unfortunately all these areas are currently a black box scenario.

I love AGG. but seems we don't do enough.  Like why not REBCODE integrated 
with the latest release?

rebcode is too unstable apparently

Also too slow. It needs some semantic redesign.

AGG/Draw in R3 is very powerful - but view limitations (transparent 
surfaces etc) seem to hold it back.  Again - rendering to an OpenGL 
surface might solve some of these issues?